- Thread starter
- #261
i agree, plans should be flexible. This is one of my strong points i think. I am def leaning to putting some GWS in there just so i can get a gauge of it before i do an entire run.
Wheelo's 3rd run - Attack of the Holy Shoots
- Thread starter WheeloFortune
- Start date
i agree, plans should be flexible. This is one of my strong points i think. I am def leaning to putting some GWS in there just so i can get a gauge of it before i do an entire run.
- Thread starter
- #262
Cheers m8, ill be watching closely, +reps for the wheel, cant wait to see the overall yeild this method can produce
thanks bro, I am commited to a big yield this run over timing, so even if i have to veg forever, i will get some big girls before i start flower.
bro.thanks PA. I still want to try to get some F1, Voodoo, and M.E. Tea.
I would try to get carboload last because i have sweet, or could always borrow some molasses from my mom. but i want the whole line for flower.
also a little note-
I am changing the res as we speak, since i don't really know how long i will end up vegging, I am going to end up following the A.N. calculator for mothers. its easy, same EC every week, but different additives alternate weeks.
- Thread starter
- #264
I think If I had 24 plants in there, I would start flower now.
******NOTE TO SELF*******
NEXT RUN --- TRY 24
************************
i think i'll try 24 using this method next time, but i think these extra 10 should round it out nicely because these will veg two more weeks before the clones are ready.
******NOTE TO SELF*******
NEXT RUN --- TRY 24
************************
i think i'll try 24 using this method next time, but i think these extra 10 should round it out nicely because these will veg two more weeks before the clones are ready.
- Thread starter
- #265
you know what, now that i finished my 420 chores for the day, smoked a bowl and thought about it,
I totally trust my cloning ability, and am confident they will all root, so I went back in the room and put the GWS that were just cloned into the wheel and lst'd them to the wall. this will give them a head start in the lst, they are already big, and i didn't have a good method for where they were sitting or how i was feeding them. so this solves those problems.
i prob should clone from the seed moms for vigor, but, i could still if i need to, and i don't think it will be a problem.
- Thread starter
- #266
yes they will, partly.
the original design has both the front and back face completely exposed to start with. so even by design, 50% of the RW face is exposed to light.
with my method the ends of the cubes are exposed on the outside 1/2 of the cube. so this will result in about 66% of the RW face being exposed. the pics i have been taking do show a drilled out side but that is supposed to be the middle cube, I just haven't gotten around to drilling out one side of 8 cubes. I think for the 8 clones still to go in i will only double the root space so i don't have to drill anymore. . . its a pain in the ass.
to my grow.- Thread starter
- #267
So i just finished the res change. one feeding with straight RO first, now my res sits nice.
i added axactly the amount siggested by the calculator minus a couple things. also i said my res was 38 liters when it is actually 45 because i figured its better to be a bit light.
the resultant EC is supposed to be 1.42 at 38L. my EC started at .05 and sits about 1.65. in about 43-44 liters. i guess i will reprint the schedule for like 34-35 liters. try to get the EC closer to 1.42.
i added axactly the amount siggested by the calculator minus a couple things. also i said my res was 38 liters when it is actually 45 because i figured its better to be a bit light.
the resultant EC is supposed to be 1.42 at 38L. my EC started at .05 and sits about 1.65. in about 43-44 liters. i guess i will reprint the schedule for like 34-35 liters. try to get the EC closer to 1.42.
- Thread starter
- #268
fyi -
i dissected a tea bag and put the 22 or so grams of powders in the tea bag. its floating and hopefully will do the job.
also I bought a vid camera a few days ago, and it should be here monday. . . i might do a vid so yall can see the speed of rotation etc. we'll see.
i dissected a tea bag and put the 22 or so grams of powders in the tea bag. its floating and hopefully will do the job.
also I bought a vid camera a few days ago, and it should be here monday. . . i might do a vid so yall can see the speed of rotation etc. we'll see.
i gotta get me a wheel @ some point here soon!! great job as always
Damian Thorn
New Member
ahh just took a bunch of clones to Finnish out my numbers by this week...i saw in one of the pics you do take the block sleeves off? why is that> would you want them on...
- Thread starter
- #271
Yeah, i took them off to increase the medium size.
i've lef them on in the past. i don't think it makes a bug difference othe than you might get a bit more roots if you leave it on. . . then again there's usually glue and paper stuck to the plastic. i didn't like that, but either way is fine. also if you take it off, it should dry a bit faster.
Strain Hunter
New Member
So how big can you allow your girls to get in the wheel before you gota flower em ?
- Thread starter
- #273
well, if you go the traditional method, which is veg for a day or two and go right to flower from clone, you don't really want plants taller than 14-15 inches finished. most indicas and indica blends will do this fine with a few day veg.
i am trying an experiment using low plant count, longer veg time, and simple lst. i have been vegging a couple weeks now, and will continue for a few more weeks. using this technique isn't the fastest method or a fast turn around time, so if the plan is to sell it this is not the method for you. but i like trying new things, and learning a system inside out, so i am enjoying this method.
i am trying an experiment using low plant count, longer veg time, and simple lst. i have been vegging a couple weeks now, and will continue for a few more weeks. using this technique isn't the fastest method or a fast turn around time, so if the plan is to sell it this is not the method for you. but i like trying new things, and learning a system inside out, so i am enjoying this method.
Strain Hunter
New Member
Right i understand what your up to a bit better now, i take it its just pure bud with girls around 14-15 finished, this method sounds and looks exciteing so im enjoying this along with ya m8 and i hope the extra veg time comes good for ya in the end
- Thread starter
- #275
i hope the extra veg time comes good for ya in the end
thx,
yeah me too! I'm out of bud from my last run so i wish i was in flower already, i have not had good cycle strategy since i got the wheel. but I am having fun playing with it and testing it's limits. so its a trade off.
hopefully this run will let me play without going dry after this dry period.
Strain Hunter
New Member
WOF, Thanks for the reply on the other thread. when i have enough posts ill begin a discussion in PM, but i have no problem sharing my findings with the community as we may all benefit from what i am doing here.
Like i said in the other thread i am in the design stages of this facility. I am already a legally authorized dist. and my goal is to have complete control over the medicine i provide my patients and assure them its top quality using the best possible methods available while keeping it as eco friendly as possible. so using this type of setup will definitely reduce the amount of wasted energy used by my traditional type of ebb and flow configuration to produce indica's.
I am actually toward the middle of your first journal today...i would have been done but i have had some running around to do. I dont mind reading alot of posts as long as the people posting it know what they are talking about! I consider these journals to be the best research available on this type of horticulture in my field of study. its been a pleasure learning from you and you guys definitely should get the credit you deserve as the pioneers of rotational horticulture in cannabis.
Anyways, I am not concerned with pumping out clones, i currently run 8 moms because that supplies me with about 100 clones a piece per one full cycle to begin with. i donate about 75% back to the people and use the rest in my garden. If i need to add more moms that will not be a problem, but before i move into the new place...im still considering a run with STS to my whole garden...i would literally produce buckets of high grade genetics feminized seeds, but we can discuss this at a later time.
Im still trying to figure out what machine size would be ideal for this type of operation. i want the best quality end product so if overkill is what it takes then running a pair of 1000's in a larger machine would not be a problem. Put it to you this way...knowing what you know now....theoretically speaking if you had aprox 100k for hardware to build your dream lab in a 4500sq ft + environment....what route would you take?
Sorry man i dont mean to put you on the spot, but i wanna pick your brain!!! hahaha
Like i said in the other thread i am in the design stages of this facility. I am already a legally authorized dist. and my goal is to have complete control over the medicine i provide my patients and assure them its top quality using the best possible methods available while keeping it as eco friendly as possible. so using this type of setup will definitely reduce the amount of wasted energy used by my traditional type of ebb and flow configuration to produce indica's.
I am actually toward the middle of your first journal today...i would have been done but i have had some running around to do. I dont mind reading alot of posts as long as the people posting it know what they are talking about! I consider these journals to be the best research available on this type of horticulture in my field of study. its been a pleasure learning from you and you guys definitely should get the credit you deserve as the pioneers of rotational horticulture in cannabis.
Anyways, I am not concerned with pumping out clones, i currently run 8 moms because that supplies me with about 100 clones a piece per one full cycle to begin with. i donate about 75% back to the people and use the rest in my garden. If i need to add more moms that will not be a problem, but before i move into the new place...im still considering a run with STS to my whole garden...i would literally produce buckets of high grade genetics feminized seeds, but we can discuss this at a later time.
Im still trying to figure out what machine size would be ideal for this type of operation. i want the best quality end product so if overkill is what it takes then running a pair of 1000's in a larger machine would not be a problem. Put it to you this way...knowing what you know now....theoretically speaking if you had aprox 100k for hardware to build your dream lab in a 4500sq ft + environment....what route would you take?
Sorry man i dont mean to put you on the spot, but i wanna pick your brain!!! hahaha
- Thread starter
- #278
hmm. . . i really want to think about this because I want to really give you good solid advice as to the best possible system that you could run for such a big operation.
now keep in mind that i have been and always will be relatively small time in scale. . . unless our government ever got it's head out of it's ass. . . i grow for me and a couple friends and thats the way i like it. so I would value a second opinion from another large scale grower as he might have some insight into what i think is the most important thing.
the question is; what is the best method to grow a large amount of premium grade marijuana, using the least amount of energy, using the least amount of disposable medium, water, nutes, etc, etc. and also of great importance using the least amount of effort.
this is what i have been striving to do for quite some time now, but on a small scale.
so what are your advantages right now?
1)large amount of space.
2)large initial startup capital.
those two things will make your journey much easier and faster to get where you want to go.
ok, so i've been tap dancing around it, so here's what I think (at this time)
light efficiency
the two best methods so far that I have seen to take advantage of the light radiated from a bulb are rotational gardens and vertical gardens. both emit light out from a central point and are surrounded by the plants and are far more efficient than tradition flat gardens.
I was very torn between these two systems when i was shopping to get into a more efficient style of grow. I was torn between the coliseum and the volks/rotogrow. In the end I went with the volks because it was cheaper than the roto, smaller and easier to move/setup in a small area like an apartment. I like it i guess. . . I don't have it down pat yet. after light distribution, i was most intrigued by the effects of "flushing" the auxins through the rotation. i must say so far, about that, i have not seen any positive effect from the rotation. i'll repeat that, none at all from what i can see with my eye. but i do see some negative effects from the rotation, mainly that the fan leaves don't know which way is up. the results in them curling back the fans and twisting the stems. it's not terrible, but I can't imagine it helps with photosynthesis. another downfall in my opinion is the medium. i know it can work great, but IMO RW is not the easiest medium to grow in.
i have never grown vert yet, but that is my plan if I ever get my own house. I have seen some amazing things gone vert. from my knowledge of rotational, i see one main advantage of vert over rotational. in vert, the plants will still want to grow "up", which will be movement parallel with the light source. this means that if you have a 5' diameter in a vert you know your plants will never get closer than 16"-18" to the bulb even if they get a bit too big, they'll just block some of the lower bids of the plant above it.
there is one HUGE disadvantage to both of these methods for you. although you are not worried about plant count for legal reasons, i would be just for workload reasons. both of these methods employ a modified sog strategy to get very even canopies without much deep light penetration. the coliseum and roto can hold hundreds of plants that are really more like individual branches than plants. this means an efficient grow with plenty of bud for less electricity, but at the cost of a lot more work.
the next most efficient type of light distribution i would say is putting an HID on a light rail and letting it move. this is not quite as efficient as the first two, but is the next best thing. i would say you can cover a similar footprint with light mover as a rotational, but in the rotational the plants are all in the sweet spot all the time, and with a light mover it gets short intervals of brighter and dimmer light.
the main advantage of this style for you would be that you could grow 5' monster plants with big colas. this would be a hell of a lot less work than growing thousands of individual branches. you could section off ten different rooms with a 1k hps on a light mover in each room and grow 10-20 monsters in each. not as energy efficient but way more effort efficient.
the least efficient is obviously a flat garden, unless you have the joy of growing under the sun, which is obviously free.
so this was a long post, and it only begins to answer some of the questions you will probably have to answer before you make decisions and get it done.
It really boils down to you, your personality, and how much work you want to do. . . is efficiency worth the extra effort or not? is it better to keep it as simple as possible or to get the most advanced technology? what system offers you the best chance of success, or are you such a good grower it doesn't matter what system you use.
we can talk about specifics if you want, but i just want you to know what your getting into. having help also helps out a lot! so three other people to do the work really lightens the load, so maybe the extra work is not an issue.
btw, I just smoked some bubble hash, and this is the kind of post you can expect out of me right after i smoke. lol. i just keep thinking and my fingers do the rest.
now keep in mind that i have been and always will be relatively small time in scale. . . unless our government ever got it's head out of it's ass. . . i grow for me and a couple friends and thats the way i like it. so I would value a second opinion from another large scale grower as he might have some insight into what i think is the most important thing.
the question is; what is the best method to grow a large amount of premium grade marijuana, using the least amount of energy, using the least amount of disposable medium, water, nutes, etc, etc. and also of great importance using the least amount of effort.
this is what i have been striving to do for quite some time now, but on a small scale.
so what are your advantages right now?
1)large amount of space.
2)large initial startup capital.
those two things will make your journey much easier and faster to get where you want to go.
ok, so i've been tap dancing around it, so here's what I think (at this time)
light efficiency
the two best methods so far that I have seen to take advantage of the light radiated from a bulb are rotational gardens and vertical gardens. both emit light out from a central point and are surrounded by the plants and are far more efficient than tradition flat gardens.
I was very torn between these two systems when i was shopping to get into a more efficient style of grow. I was torn between the coliseum and the volks/rotogrow. In the end I went with the volks because it was cheaper than the roto, smaller and easier to move/setup in a small area like an apartment. I like it i guess. . . I don't have it down pat yet. after light distribution, i was most intrigued by the effects of "flushing" the auxins through the rotation. i must say so far, about that, i have not seen any positive effect from the rotation. i'll repeat that, none at all from what i can see with my eye. but i do see some negative effects from the rotation, mainly that the fan leaves don't know which way is up. the results in them curling back the fans and twisting the stems. it's not terrible, but I can't imagine it helps with photosynthesis. another downfall in my opinion is the medium. i know it can work great, but IMO RW is not the easiest medium to grow in.
i have never grown vert yet, but that is my plan if I ever get my own house. I have seen some amazing things gone vert. from my knowledge of rotational, i see one main advantage of vert over rotational. in vert, the plants will still want to grow "up", which will be movement parallel with the light source. this means that if you have a 5' diameter in a vert you know your plants will never get closer than 16"-18" to the bulb even if they get a bit too big, they'll just block some of the lower bids of the plant above it.
there is one HUGE disadvantage to both of these methods for you. although you are not worried about plant count for legal reasons, i would be just for workload reasons. both of these methods employ a modified sog strategy to get very even canopies without much deep light penetration. the coliseum and roto can hold hundreds of plants that are really more like individual branches than plants. this means an efficient grow with plenty of bud for less electricity, but at the cost of a lot more work.
the next most efficient type of light distribution i would say is putting an HID on a light rail and letting it move. this is not quite as efficient as the first two, but is the next best thing. i would say you can cover a similar footprint with light mover as a rotational, but in the rotational the plants are all in the sweet spot all the time, and with a light mover it gets short intervals of brighter and dimmer light.
the main advantage of this style for you would be that you could grow 5' monster plants with big colas. this would be a hell of a lot less work than growing thousands of individual branches. you could section off ten different rooms with a 1k hps on a light mover in each room and grow 10-20 monsters in each. not as energy efficient but way more effort efficient.
the least efficient is obviously a flat garden, unless you have the joy of growing under the sun, which is obviously free.
so this was a long post, and it only begins to answer some of the questions you will probably have to answer before you make decisions and get it done.
It really boils down to you, your personality, and how much work you want to do. . . is efficiency worth the extra effort or not? is it better to keep it as simple as possible or to get the most advanced technology? what system offers you the best chance of success, or are you such a good grower it doesn't matter what system you use.
we can talk about specifics if you want, but i just want you to know what your getting into. having help also helps out a lot! so three other people to do the work really lightens the load, so maybe the extra work is not an issue.
btw, I just smoked some bubble hash, and this is the kind of post you can expect out of me right after i smoke. lol. i just keep thinking and my fingers do the rest.
Thanks for such a detailed response definitely some food for thought.
I have considered the verticle grow option, but like you said, the most even logical light distribution brings me right back to rotational. and the price per system as well. No matter what you do in the verticle setup, the only way to get light to the back of the plant is to actually rotate it because of the "stadium seating" so to call it. also lower plants might stretch competing for light as the upper decks fan outward. figure by week 4 or so. i think the shade effect might be more impossible to solve than the perfect rotational combo. IMO
I forgot to mention i already run light movers....every one of my lights is on a mover that goes back and forth aprox 6" to cover max canopy w min shade...they just make sense. I would not grow them that large as you described though. artificial light just doesnt seem to really get the lower branches well enough in a 5' tall monster i have flowered retired moms and the only branches worth noting are the top 2' or so as the lights gets more blocked the buds are airy and sets are far apart. Yeild is ok but for the lumens it just does the same thing as a bunch of smaller colas. Not to mention veg time vs nearly no veg time.
I keep my plants to 3' max FIM the tops when they go from clones to veg..you end up with atleast 3 colas per root mass..bend when they get too tall....just snap it a little dont worry it still grows and they kinda like the abuse! ugh females just dont understand them sometimes! lol...stretching and training it helps with outward growths especially when you are limited by table space...ive had a spiderweb of string on one with shiva skunk and because of its lanky stature was able to effectively cross them around and fit 24 on a single 4x4...i got stoned bored and it turned into my training experiment! Wish i had a pic to show you...it turned into a 16" thick mat of nugs pretty much. i believe i created the "mat" around week 5. Still yielded the same 1lb off 1000watts!!!! no matter what im doing here i dont go much over!!!
ok im totally rambling off topic here!!
The Roto grow and the Omega system both have built in ballasts...niether one of them are digital or vented propperly for an industrial purpose...magnetic ballasts give off much more heat than digital and are mounted inside the arms of the machine so connecting a blow through setup is impossible....and watter cooled ballasts..ummm..i dont think thats a good idea...lol i can be clumsy sometimes! side by side machines would create unmanaged radiant heat vs a "cooltube" sytle machine where i can remote mount my ballasts in an a vented or air conditioned power closet.
Something about the idea of rotary intrigues me and i would think that the plant may benefit in nutrient delivery from the root system through the main stem simply because of gravity when its upside down. more water flow to the cola.
I still plan on running my ebb and flow tables with coco media as this is what im used to, this will be in addition to that setup. I wouldnt consider myself an unstoppable growing force or anything close...i still get yellow leaves on plants from time to time...have had bug problems and other human error issues as much as the other guys here, but i just keep learning as i go and learning from others, thats all i can do. Hence i am here!
Also a thought...to control the upward growth with the wheel the conditions may ask for a different nute schedule. I would like to see what ramping down the nitrogen at a faster pace than normal (talking clones here..say 3-4 days in the wheel you fill the pan by hand daily or something with a Nitrogen rich solution lowering the nitrogen and raising the Phosphate gradually day to day to reduce shock...keeping ph low at this point may help reduce shock as well) then keeping a mid flower nitrogen level but rich in phosphate and Potash much earlier through the growth. IMO The effect would be a plant that doesnt want to be tall or stemmy just grow double its size then flower up....just a nug on a stick would do great considering your motive should be to create an efficient cola with the minimum amount of shade leaves and off shoots so it can be densly placed in the wheel. im going to try this on a few fresh clones just to see what happens for fun in the mean time. Who knows it may kill them due to lack of nitrogen??? ok this is enough for today! hmmm... im going to bed!
I have considered the verticle grow option, but like you said, the most even logical light distribution brings me right back to rotational. and the price per system as well. No matter what you do in the verticle setup, the only way to get light to the back of the plant is to actually rotate it because of the "stadium seating" so to call it. also lower plants might stretch competing for light as the upper decks fan outward. figure by week 4 or so. i think the shade effect might be more impossible to solve than the perfect rotational combo. IMO
I forgot to mention i already run light movers....every one of my lights is on a mover that goes back and forth aprox 6" to cover max canopy w min shade...they just make sense. I would not grow them that large as you described though. artificial light just doesnt seem to really get the lower branches well enough in a 5' tall monster i have flowered retired moms and the only branches worth noting are the top 2' or so as the lights gets more blocked the buds are airy and sets are far apart. Yeild is ok but for the lumens it just does the same thing as a bunch of smaller colas. Not to mention veg time vs nearly no veg time.
I keep my plants to 3' max FIM the tops when they go from clones to veg..you end up with atleast 3 colas per root mass..bend when they get too tall....just snap it a little dont worry it still grows and they kinda like the abuse! ugh females just dont understand them sometimes! lol...stretching and training it helps with outward growths especially when you are limited by table space...ive had a spiderweb of string on one with shiva skunk and because of its lanky stature was able to effectively cross them around and fit 24 on a single 4x4...i got stoned bored and it turned into my training experiment! Wish i had a pic to show you...it turned into a 16" thick mat of nugs pretty much. i believe i created the "mat" around week 5. Still yielded the same 1lb off 1000watts!!!! no matter what im doing here i dont go much over!!!
ok im totally rambling off topic here!!
The Roto grow and the Omega system both have built in ballasts...niether one of them are digital or vented propperly for an industrial purpose...magnetic ballasts give off much more heat than digital and are mounted inside the arms of the machine so connecting a blow through setup is impossible....and watter cooled ballasts..ummm..i dont think thats a good idea...lol i can be clumsy sometimes! side by side machines would create unmanaged radiant heat vs a "cooltube" sytle machine where i can remote mount my ballasts in an a vented or air conditioned power closet.
Something about the idea of rotary intrigues me and i would think that the plant may benefit in nutrient delivery from the root system through the main stem simply because of gravity when its upside down. more water flow to the cola.
I still plan on running my ebb and flow tables with coco media as this is what im used to, this will be in addition to that setup. I wouldnt consider myself an unstoppable growing force or anything close...i still get yellow leaves on plants from time to time...have had bug problems and other human error issues as much as the other guys here, but i just keep learning as i go and learning from others, thats all i can do. Hence i am here!
Also a thought...to control the upward growth with the wheel the conditions may ask for a different nute schedule. I would like to see what ramping down the nitrogen at a faster pace than normal (talking clones here..say 3-4 days in the wheel you fill the pan by hand daily or something with a Nitrogen rich solution lowering the nitrogen and raising the Phosphate gradually day to day to reduce shock...keeping ph low at this point may help reduce shock as well) then keeping a mid flower nitrogen level but rich in phosphate and Potash much earlier through the growth. IMO The effect would be a plant that doesnt want to be tall or stemmy just grow double its size then flower up....just a nug on a stick would do great considering your motive should be to create an efficient cola with the minimum amount of shade leaves and off shoots so it can be densly placed in the wheel. im going to try this on a few fresh clones just to see what happens for fun in the mean time. Who knows it may kill them due to lack of nitrogen??? ok this is enough for today! hmmm... im going to bed!
Looking good brother grower 
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