Weffalo's West Coast O.G. First Time Grow: Indoor, Soil, SIP, Auto

I'm not following you there. The max water level should be well below the top of the bucket. In fact it should only be the bottom few inches. And the fill tube should go from the reservoir, through your grow mix and stick up a bit to make pouring water into the tube easy.

You never want to saturate the entire pot, but just the very bottom few inches.
The fill tube that attaches to the top of the res is too short for the buckets so I couldn't fill the soil to the top of the inside is all I mean:) I've actually found some US 5 gallon ones so it's gonna be snugly fit now. I'll read up on the DIY ideas when I've got some time and think about converting the larger ones into SIPs without the GroBuckets.
 
So, a non-standard bucket? Don't know where you are but I'd bet that fill tube is a standard size so you could probably get a longer one at a hardware store. Just be sure the outside dimension (OD) matches up, you don't really care about the inside diameter (ID) and plastic pipe comes in different thicknesses.

Or, just take the tube with you to the store. Alternatively, you could use a coupler to attach an extra piece of piping. Just be sure to seal around the original tube to keep your mix out since it will be buried when you add more soil.

Or, for a more 'red neck' version, just cut out a section of an old plastic milk carton or something to hold back the soil away from the tube area and fill in around it. Then use a funnel or piece of smaller diameter pipe that would slide into the original one to use when pouring water into the fill tube.
 
Day 16:

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I'll read up on the DIY ideas when I've got some time and think about converting the larger ones into SIPs without the GroBuckets.
On page 2 of the #SIP Club thread I shared the design for the ones I build which may give you some ideas. Link in my sig.
 
So, a non-standard bucket? Don't know where you are but I'd bet that fill tube is a standard size so you could probably get a longer one at a hardware store. Just be sure the outside dimension (OD) matches up, you don't really care about the inside diameter (ID) and plastic pipe come in different thicknesses.

Or, just take the tube with you to the store. Alternatively, you could use a coupler to attach an extra piece of piping. Just be sure to seal around the original tube to keep your mix out since it will be buried when you add more soil.

Or, for a more 'red neck' version, just cut out a section of an old plastic milk carton or something to hold back the soil away from the tube area and fill in around it. Then use a funnel or piece of smaller diameter pipe that would slide into the original one to use when pouring water into the fill tube.
Yeah the issue has stemmed from "standard bucket" sizes differences lol.

5 US gal =18.9 litre and 5 gal = 25 litre here, so it's wider and taller, great solutions thanks Azi... you can probably tell I'm not so DIY or practically minded lol, your right the tube is just a standard PVC pipe I could definitely get one the same diamater and cut it to size.
 
Yeah the issue has stemmed from "standard bucket" sizes differences lol.

5 US gal =18.9 litre and 5 gal = 25 litre here, so it's wider and taller, great solutions thanks Azi... you can probably tell I'm not so DIY or practically minded lol, your right the tube is just a standard PVC pipe I could definitely get one the same diamater and cut it to size.
Ah, good to know. I assumed a 5 gallon bucket was the same size everywhere. But there should be easy enough work arounds.
 
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Would something like this, with the sides shaved down work well enough? Then I just need to make the hole for the fill tube.

Looking at the GroBucket they are quite a bit taller so wondering how I could maybe make this bigger for a larger res for the larger bucket.

Edit: Also, looking at it, I don't know if this would as it's not flush on any side with the bucket so there wouldn't be an air gap or place for overflow to exit properly. Just having a look around now trying to plan these next two 25litre SIP buckets for my next project :D
 
Also, regarding transplanting. I should maybe be looking to do that asap now? I am just reading up on mainlining and various other things and finally I understand what nodes are... yes I'm slow and I know it's been explained to me but there you go lol.

Given the first node is the two non triple leaves, I'm now on the 2nd and waiting for the third? So I need to start prepping my buckets/medium asap and get them moved over I think?

Guessing the 3rd node will happen in the next few days so I'm maybe already a bit too late but there's not much to be done for my slow brain :D
 
1669498984888.png


Would something like this, with the sides shaved down work well enough? Then I just need to make the hole for the fill tube.

Looking at the GroBucket they are quite a bit taller so wondering how I could maybe make this bigger for a larger res for the larger bucket.

Edit: Also, looking at it, I don't know if this would as it's not flush on any side with the bucket so there wouldn't be an air gap or place for overflow to exit properly. Just having a look around now trying to plan these next two 25litre SIP buckets for my next project :D
Yep, that'd be perfect. I had something very similar and used tin snips to cut off the handles so it would fit.

I'd think that reservoir size will be fine. Do you know how big it is? Looks like 2L at least.

Not flush isn't a problem. What I do is use some sort of aggregate in a section around the overflow hole and between the side of the bucket and the dome. I used hydroton clay balls, but perlite or even river rock or something would work just as well. Just be sure nothing is pushed right up against the overflow hole. And periodically you'll have to ream out the hole as roots grow near it.
 
Also, regarding transplanting. I should maybe be looking to do that asap now? I am just reading up on mainlining and various other things and finally I understand what nodes are... yes I'm slow and I know it's been explained to me but there you go lol.

Given the first node is the two non triple leaves, I'm now on the 2nd and waiting for the third? So I need to start prepping my buckets/medium asap and get them moved over I think?

Guessing the 3rd node will happen in the next few days so I'm maybe already a bit too late but there's not much to be done for my slow brain :D
For training I like Quadlining (link in my sig). For that we top between nodes 4 and 5.

You can uppot as soon as the root ball will hold together when you flip the pot over and gently slide it out.
 
For training I like Quadlining (link in my sig). For that we top between nodes 4 and 5.

You can uppot as soon as the root ball will hold together when you flip the pot over and gently slide it out.
Thanks Azi, I'm planning to do it as soon as the buckets/medium has been prepped as per ReservoirDogs instructions :D

Gone to buy some longer pipe this morning as I can't wait for the new buckets to arrive.

I'm just going from the advice that I shouldn't wait much longer than node 2 to up-pot so the plant has plenty of time to recover and more importantly grow in the SIP. Hopefully the rootball is strong enough :)

Unfortunately my phone LCD seems to have given up today after a few good years of service so I'll have to wait until it gets fixed to upload any more pics. Not really ideal timing as I would have liked to take a pic of the roots when i move them into the SIP but ah well!
 
Also I looked at quadlining, super interesting and super useful guides from members here I think I will try it in future. There are a few people with good success doing it to autos... but from that same thread I can also see at day 18 his plant is miles ahead of mine so perhaps I've missed my chance. I'll wait until it's in the SIP and see if it recovers well from transplant then decide what training I will trial out.
 
I'm just going from the advice that I shouldn't wait much longer than node 2 to up-pot so the plant has plenty of time to recover and more importantly grow in the SIP. Hopefully the rootball is strong enough :)
I don't want to tread on toes here, but I think there is common agreement that it is desirable for the root ball to be well enough developed to withstand an up-pot. I would advise against doing it too soon. Many growers up-pot several times in a grow. Others start out directly in final pots, but I think that the less disturbance with the root ball, the better until it is chunky enough. Are there holes at the bottom of those black pots the plants are in? Are you seeing roots there? :)
 
I don't want to tread on toes here, but I think there is common agreement that it is desirable for the root ball to be well enough developed to withstand an up-pot. I would advise against doing it too soon. Many growers up-pot several times in a grow. Others start out directly in final pots, but I think that the less disturbance with the root ball, the better until it is chunky enough. Are there holes at the bottom of those black pots the plants are in? Are you seeing roots there? :)
No toes to tread on don't worry, I can't find exactly where but I think it's on the SIP thread somewhere and ReservoirDog talks about the best time to up-pot for SIP and describes the best time as being after node 2 and before node 5 I believe, basically the seedling needs time to adjust to the fact it's now in a SIP which takes a few days and then it needs to recover and grow.

(SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium - This is the page that goes into detail regarding seedlings/transplants and also preparing the SIP/soil)

Because I'm doing autos which are extra finicky and on a timeline, I want to get it transplanted ASAP so it has access to all the water and nutes it needs to grow as quickly as possible and recovers from the stress of transplanting. I also want to try training on a few of these autos and I think that ideally needs to be done before day 30, so I would like the autos in the SIPs and thriving before thinking about adding any extra stress.

Your completely right though that all of that thinking only works if the rootball is properly formed and the plant can survive and thrive after a transplant. I will check the holes at the bottom and see what I can see :D It will be at least another 48 hours yet anyway as today I will start mixing my soil and preparing the SIPs again following @ReservoirDog 's instructions a few pages ago in this journal :D
 
(SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium - This is the page that goes into detail regarding seedlings/transplants and also preparing the SIP/soil)
Ok, thank you. I stand corrected. It's a lot of information. I started reading and when I did a further skim I saw the heavy weights who were part of the discussion. Definitely listen to them rather than me when it comes to SIP :nervous-guy:. I'll keep my trap shut and eagerly follow on as you train the autos 🙏.
 
Ok, thank you. I stand corrected. It's a lot of information. I started reading and when I did a further skim I saw the heavy weights who were part of the discussion. Definitely listen to them rather than me when it comes to SIP :nervous-guy:. I'll keep my trap shut and eagerly follow on as you train the autos 🙏.
Well we'll see how the roots are in a few days, you definitely might be right we'll see if they are good enough :))

Prepping the SIPs now, cut the PVC pipe to length and preparing my mix... It's going to be BioBizz light mixed with 40% perlite and then the appropriate amounts of Frass/Dynomyco. Then I'm gonna follow the super handy guide below for preparing my medium before transplant.

For real, this is not the time in its life that your plant needs a strident, doctrinal support-human! One day, but not now. Don't let the top go dry, dry- anymore. Once she's been transplanted into the bucket, (a little while) and showing comfort, then there's time and energy reserves, and you can get medieval on her ass then, not now. Remember also, that transplanting into a Grobucket that's been properly pre-moistened and prepared is important.

How I do it... not to 'Growbuckets' but to very similar SIPs, in fact, all SIPs, is the following steps in this order... (I'm not an authority, but neither can I point you to one, so I share this until I can) Fill an assembled but empty Grobucket (no water in reservoir) with already dampened* ( with light sprayed water and surfactant - last paragraph will detail more) grow matrix and pack lightly, then place an empty copy of your seedling pot in the place you wish to plant as a placeholder. Fill reservoir through fill tube and then allow 24hrs for SIP to absorb rez contents. In the meantime, if soil level drops as gravity compacts, fill with new premoistened soil*. Drop your seedling in the empty space along with whatever ritualistic majicks you feel appropriate at the time, then, tuck her in with a nice top watering (less than 2 litres/quarts aka a half gallon). Make sure there's some room in the rez before you top water this "last" time, much of it should have already been soaked up into the soil, so its not currently at capacity. It is probably best to keep rez level under 2/3-3/4 full for the first 2 weeks in order to avoid the small chance of system-over-wetness for the plant's given maturity level. This is purely precautionary, so time could be saved here in future after evidence for confidence is collected the first time around.

PS, it's not really the last time you will top water, the idea is that it is just the last time until a new state of growth has been reached in the near future, like 1-2 weeks on. My simple mind's chronically flawed yet dog-eared logic goes something like, "because I can recognize no change in a plant inside a time resolution of one week, it must take one week's worth of change, to make change." See, I told you, flawed. And yet dog-eared because thinking it has often stopped me from making multiple mistakes in quick succession. So while I know it not to be true I paradoxically believe in its power to help me grow better.

Let's pump the brakes here, however, and go back to not having transplanted yet. If you plant a too-small seedling into an overwet bucket it could set you back, or worse. Thankfully your SIP's design range suits the needs of the plant 99% of the time, and that stability allows for new efficiencies to develop. And yet because it is your first time, to innocently err out of an abundance of caution is your target result. Young plants don't do well with too much moisture, but big plants need it. Given the absence of a dry-wet "dial" on your SIP, the reservoir's state of fullness is almost the only trick up your sleeve and certainly the most effective one. Learn to use it to the best of your abilities. Meaning: Transplant into a well soaked-in planter, but one that has limited capability to make itself more so after transplant until you've stabilized the new houseguest and begun the growing trend well and for sure.

* When pre-moistening my promix (peat/perlite) I use water that has a tiny drop of dish soap to act as a surfactant, to actively reduce water's surface tension - allowing it faster, easier access into smaller spaces. Soilless mixes especially (coco or peat-based) have a chance of portions becoming hydrophobic, whereby it becomes easier for water to completely bypass large groups of particles rather than soak them. Permitting this leads to dry spots and, at best, impeded growth. Just use surfactant for pre-wetting, not for reservoir fills as the water surface tension plays an important role in the 'capillary action' and osmotic pressures crucial to making water seep upward against gravity. Surfactants do, however, make foliar sprays more effective, whether for fertilization, irrigation or pathogen control so use them there no probs, just not drip incessantly back down into soil. Some is fine, just watch for a lot of excess, a drip cloth would prevent. There are better (more easy to control/apply) surfactants than soap, brief research will point them out pretty quickly. Soap is to-hand, cheap, but requires only a tiny amount compared to normal soap uses. Be careful, suds are not desirable. Remember, only for initial dampening, and likely on recommended if you have a high peat content. Do not treat reservoir water with surfactants.
 
I'm just going from the advice that I shouldn't wait much longer than node 2 to up-pot so the plant has plenty of time to recover and more importantly grow in the SIP. Hopefully the rootball is strong enough :)
It's more about the plant requiring the transition period after getting planted in the SIP and the sooner you start the transition the better. I know ResDog has strong opinions on the ideal times and methods to do certain things. I'm a bit looser in my approach and enjoy the experiment as much as the grow.

Because I'm doing autos which are extra finicky and on a timeline, I want to get it transplanted ASAP so it has access to all the water and nutes it needs to grow as quickly as possible and recovers from the stress of transplanting.
Autos are on a time schedule as you mentioned, but you can help ease the transition time by getting started watering the plant only from below while it's still in its first pot. If you up-pot before the root ball holds together you'll likely damage roots in the process and stunt the auto.

I agree with Carmen. So, water from below by setting the pot in a bowl or something until the roots hold the soil together when you slip it out of the pot as mentioned above. That will help the plant get used to the "wetter the deeper" soil environment we get in SIPs.
 
Yep, that'd be perfect. I had something very similar and used tin snips to cut off the handles so it would fit.

I'd think that reservoir size will be fine. Do you know how big it is? Looks like 2L at least.

Not flush isn't a problem. What I do is use some sort of aggregate in a section around the overflow hole and between the side of the bucket and the dome. I used hydroton clay balls, but perlite or even river rock or something would work just as well. Just be sure nothing is pushed right up against the overflow hole. And periodically you'll have to ream out the hole as roots grow near it.
35 x 31 x 9.5cm so from my Googling that is around 10 litre? The listing doesn't say. Edit 10 litre actually seems way too high but I've no idea how to work it out properly lol.

Good idea with the aggregate, that sounds easy enough :) So on the side of the hole and to just above its height? Think we've got the workings of a plan here !!
 
It's more about the plant requiring the transition period after getting planted in the SIP and the sooner you start the transition the better. I know ResDog has strong opinions on the ideal times and methods to do certain things. I'm a bit looser in my approach and enjoy the experiment as much as the grow.


Autos are on a time schedule as you mentioned, but you can help ease the transition time by getting started watering the plant only from below while its still in its first pot. If you uppot before the rootball holds together you'll likely damage roots in the process and stunt the auto.

I agree with Carmen. So, water from below by setting the pot in a bowl or something until the roots hold the soil together when you slip it out of the pot as mentioned above. That will help the plant get used to the "wetter the deeper" soil environment we get in SIPs.
Well I have been watering from the bottom since the beginning in preperation, until we discovered I'm using coco and even then I've not been clearing out the run off which is almost instant still, so I do believe the only nutrition they can be getting is from the bottom really from the tray that holds the runoff.

The coco unfortunately didn't seem to hydrate after a dunking, around 10ml of water = runoff still. I will check the roots in two days time and see how we are doing, losing the ability to take a picture and confirm here is a bummer but not much that can be done. If they are not super obviously formed everywhere I will report back prior to transplant for expert opinions :)
 
35 x 31 x 9.5cm so from my Googling that is around 10 litre? The listing doesn't say. Edit 10 litre actually seems way too high but I've no idea how to work it out properly lol.

Good idea with the aggregate, that sounds easy enough :) So on the side of the hole and to just above its height? Think we've got the workings of a plan here !!

What shape are they? Cuboid? if so then 10.3L is correct.

EDIT - never bet anyone you can drink a Frisbee (TM) of beer - volume is deceptive!

DeeBeeBee
 
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