Weffalo's West Coast O.G. First Time Grow: Indoor, Soil, SIP, Auto

[Azimuth]

Either method should grow a great plant for you. The reason most new growers have a problem with watering is trying to learn the wet/dry cycle, but neither SIP nor coco will have that issue. With coco you can and should water/feed every day as Bill mentioned, so no learning curve there. With SIP you top off the reservoir daily once they start growing well, also avoiding the learning curve.

I don't know how coco would do in a SIP since you would be reabsorbing the run-off daily so maybe you'd have to do a periodic flush? Bill could probably tell us what signs to look for to tell you it's time to do so. Obvious deficiencies I'd imagine.

 

[Weffalo]

Either method should grow a great plant for you. The reason most new growers have a problem with watering is trying to learn the wet/dry cycle, but neither SIP nor coco will have that issue. With coco you can and should water/feed every day as Bill mentioned, so no learning curve there. With SIP you top off the reservoir daily once they start growing well, also avoiding the learning curve.

I don't know how coco would do in a SIP since you would be reabsorbing the run-off daily so maybe you'd have to do a periodic flush? Bill could probably tell us what signs to look for to tell you it's time to do so. Obvious deficiencies I'd imagine.

Ok cheers man, I do already have both soil and coco so I can still adapt the plan for this grow. Would transplanting the coco seedling into a SIP present any obvious issues do you think?

I could still do coco in a SIP but as you've said, it's kind of experimental and I'm not sure I want to be innovating on my first attempt xD

 

[Azimuth]

I think Bill says to not mix soil and coco but transplanting from coco to soil shouldn't be an issue. But let's have him weigh in on that. He may suggest washing the coco out of the roots as you do.

I agree about picking one or the other for your first grow. It's good to go with a tried and true method to at least get a baseline you can compare future grows against.

 

[Weffalo]

Okay awesome, I'll wait for Bill to weigh in Whichever way it goes it will work out just fine I'm sure, I have both 5gal buckets and fabric pots I could use for the coco grow and then possibly attempt a SIP grow next time if there's issues with transplanting my current seedlings into a SIP.

Edit: From what I've read it seems like it would be okay, if I cover it with soil after planting and make sure that the coco doesn't dry out it apparently breaks down within 2 weeks. That's just based on my preliminary research so feel free to correct me or offer any caveats Bill

 

[Carmen Ray]

Hi Weffalo,

I found your journal when doing a SIP search. I am interested in finding out more about it and I'd like to follow along with your journey and maybe learn a thing or two. I have been using fabric pots and Azi said some people are using fabric pots with SIP so I'd like to find out more about that. So much to learn.

Best wishes for your grow.

 

[Weffalo]

Hi Weffalo,

I found your journal when doing a SIP search. I am interested in finding out more about it and I'd like to follow along with your journey and maybe learn a thing or two. I have been using fabric pots and Azi said some people are using fabric pots with SIP so I'd like to find out more about that. So much to learn.

Best wishes for your grow.

Hey Carmen,

Thanks for popping in, that sounds awesome, I'll definitely follow your journey closely and I'm interested to see what setup you end up going with. I checked out your last grow from your signature and it seems that was a great success even though it's titled "winging it by the window" Be great to see how you think SIP compares and how your results differ

Best of luck with your grow as well, I'll keep an eye out for your next post.

 

[Weffalo]

So small update, I made a nutrient mix yesterday, emptied the saucers and gave them a top water, I'm not sure if the coco is already fully saturated if it's already hydrophobic because I get instant run off and the same again today when I checked, instant run off.

Just gonna keep testing top watering and hopefully next time more will be absorbed by coco, I think I'm lucky they are doing okay still considering I've not been giving them the water/nutes they need in coco.

Plan is definitely to transplant them into *soil* when the time has come, I'm gonna continue with the SIP plan so I just need to get these babies into the GroBuckets/Soil when the time comes and then re-assess after a few days. From what I've read it will be fine putting the coco seedling into soil, if you think there will be issues please let me know lol <3

Here is a pic of the ladies today as is customary (Day 12):

 

[Buds Buddy]

Some negative pressure is good to help control odors, but too much just puts more unnecessary strain on your extraction fan leading to a shorter life.


Yeah, if that persists you'll probably need a heater. These are warm weather plants and temps in the upper 20's is what you want to shoot for.


60% is fine. Later in flower high humidity can cause mold and bud rot issues but in veg not so much. I don't do anything about humidity though I'm not suggesting that you should follow my lead on that.

I use to worry about high temps & RH. But I always yielded 5-6 oz. plants doing so. Now as long as I keep it 66F - 88F I don't worry at all. My yields have also increased. I believe all those statistics were written in terms of HPS lighting & not LED lighting. They say 77F is perfect (yeah, for HPS), but for LED it's more like 84F. If you want to learn about lighting I'd suggest some Dr. Bruce Bugby videos. This guy rocks !
My RH, is the opposite of yours. Hard for me to get over 40% unless it's been raining a lot. Most of my Veg is done between 25% - 40% RH. High RH is something more to worry about because it can create mold.
I use an Intake & Exhaust so I don't get any pressure in my tent. Took a few days of playing with the speeds to get it right, but it works great once you find the sweet spot.

 

[Weffalo]

I use to worry about high temps & RH. But I always yielded 5-6 oz. plants doing so. Now as long as I keep it 66F - 88F I don't worry at all. My yields have also increased. I believe all those statistics were written in terms of HPS lighting & not LED lighting. They say 77F is perfect (yeah, for HPS), but for LED it's more like 84F. If you want to learn about lighting I'd suggest some Dr. Bruce Bugby videos. This guy rocks !
My RH, is the opposite of yours. Hard for me to get over 40% unless it's been raining a lot. Most of my Veg is done between 25% - 40% RH. High RH is something more to worry about because it can create mold.
I use an Intake & Exhaust so I don't get any pressure in my tent. Took a few days of playing with the speeds to get it right, but it works great once you find the sweet spot.

Hey Buds, thanks for chiming in

Appreciate the insight regarding temps/RH, I'm now using an Inkbird controller with an oilrad and I am consistently keeping it around 25c which I will increase as I move into veg/flowering, do you not bother with higher rH for seedlings? It's only really these 2 weeks I'm trying to ensure the rH is high then I plan to use a dehumidifer to keep rH under control... last thing I want is bud rot for sure.

Would you say the intake is required or heavily recommended? I planned (I haven't yet) to just create a passive intake with ducting but I can look at active intake if it's something that would help a lot. I know Azi said that negative pressure really just hurts your fan but I'm not sure if that means it won't last 6 months or it will just have a slightly reduced life lol?

I will definitely check out Bruce Bugby, I did see some of his videos when doing my research but I didn''t make time to watch any, thanks <3

 

[Carmen Ray]

Awesome I have found a cannabis lighting 101 by Bruce Bugbee. It's three quarters of an hour long, so it is in-depth. It's very good so far.

 

[NickHardy]

Watching the same now. Thanks for the tip!

I walked into my flower room at 9:01am and the temp was 24c - freezing for me in T-Shirt and shorts! Left the AC on full chat overnight!, during the day anything under 30 is the dream. Humidity we have a better grip on. 45-50% in flower and 70% for the seedlings

DeeBeeBee

 

[Buds Buddy]

Hey Buds, thanks for chiming in

Appreciate the insight regarding temps/RH, I'm now using an Inkbird controller with an oilrad and I am consistently keeping it around 25c which I will increase as I move into veg/flowering, do you not bother with higher rH for seedlings? It's only really these 2 weeks I'm trying to ensure the rH is high then I plan to use a dehumidifer to keep rH under control... last thing I want is bud rot for sure.

Would you say the intake is required or heavily recommended? I planned (I haven't yet) to just create a passive intake with ducting but I can look at active intake if it's something that would help a lot. I know Azi said that negative pressure really just hurts your fan but I'm not sure if that means it won't last 6 months or it will just have a slightly reduced life lol?

I will definitely check out Bruce Bugby, I did see some of his videos when doing my research but I didn''t make time to watch any, thanks <3

Passive should be fine in a smaller tent like yours. I'm running a 4x8.

 

[Weffalo]

Awesome cheers, Cannabis Lighting 101 sounds like a good start, feel like I'm back at uni but actually studying something I like now?

 

[Weffalo]

So i been watering nute solution till run off (Tri part, bio roots, fulvic acid & calmag) but run off happens VERY quickly, maybe 15ml of water from a syringe will still have somec coming out of the bottom. Not sure if because I let it dry out too much in past or what... doesn't seem to matter currently, plants looking good, tiny dots of discolouration on the leaves that have been there since the start but I think the newer leaves look even healthier.

One is about half the size of the other two so I guess she's just gonna grow smaller

Edit: When can I expect the 2nd node to appear approximately please? Just so I have some idea of when to prep my groBucket and have plenty of time to presoak etc

Day 13:

 

[Bill284]

Thanks a lot Bill, my weekend was great but always feels too short! What about yours mate?

I'm retired so weekends are just another day.

I'm with you now, and so I think there is an issue with my plan to use a SIP and my revelation that I am using coco. I don't think SIP works with coco right? That's why my plan maybe doesn't line up now as I am not planning to top feed and I'm not sure this watering method and coco vibe together.

I've never run SIP.
But from what I read there are still some questions re watering.

So really I need to either switch to soil when I transplant into a SIP or skip the grobuckets and use the 5gal buckets with coco and just water from the top?

I run the Bill284 Method.
Layering coco with perlite, Bokashi, frass and DYNOMYCO.
It's really easy, can be used on soil and is almost impossible to overwater.
Id do that.

Can I transplant a coco seedling into soil or would that cause issues?

You can transplant no problem.

The way I see it I need to either switch medium or switch my plan for watering, and the reason I've chosen SIP for this first grow is hopefully to overachieve on results and skip some of the headaches new growers have with under or overwatering so I think ideally switching to soil upon transplant would be optimal?

Bill284 Method in my Heavens Shores thread, simple.

Sorry lots of question marks as I'm obviously clueless and trying to figure it out as I go along lol.

For now I can just make sure the coco stays moist and mix a feed to be used for the next few days/weeks until it's ready for transplant.

My apologies for the late reply.
Building the new grow room is eating all my time.
Hopefully that answers your questions.
Anything I missed let me know.
Take care.




#Love What You Grow
Bill284

 

[Bill284]

So i been watering nute solution till run off (Tri part, bio roots, fulvic acid & calmag) but run off happens VERY quickly, maybe 15ml of water from a syringe will still have somec coming out of the bottom. Not sure if because I let it dry out too much in past or what... doesn't seem to matter currently, plants looking good, tiny dots of discolouration on the leaves that have been there since the start but I think the newer leaves look even healthier.

One is about half the size of the other two so I guess she's just gonna grow smaller

Edit: When can I expect the 2nd node to appear approximately please? Just so I have some idea of when to prep my groBucket and have plenty of time to presoak etc

Day 13:

The nodes keep appearing at the top.
You can see them grow.




#Love What You Grow
Bill284

 

[Azimuth]

You probably let your coco dry out. Coco becomes hydrophobic when dried and is difficult to rewet so the water is probably finding open channels to run straight down to the catch pan. That or running off and down the sides between the coco and the pot. The plants look healthy so not much of an issue. You could try dunking the entire pot into a larger bucket of water for a few minutes to help rehydrate the coco and then make sure it doesn't dry out.

Won't be too long before you're ready to up-pot.

 

[Azimuth]

I run the Bill284 Method.
Layering coco with perlite, Bokashi, frass and DYNOMYCO.
It's really easy, can be used on soil and is almost impossible to overwater.
Id do that.

Bill and I are both coming at the watering issue from the same perspective but different solutions. The biggest challenge for most new growers is improper watering.

His pot layer method allows for a traditional watering approach without the possibility of overwatering. I like SIPs but those are sub watered.

But either way, both are superior to the traditional approach and you won't go wrong with either one.

 

[Weffalo]

I'm retired so weekends are just another day.

I've never run SIP.
But from what I read there are still some questions re watering.

I run the Bill284 Method.
Layering coco with perlite, Bokashi, frass and DYNOMYCO.
It's really easy, can be used on soil and is almost impossible to overwater.
Id do that.

You can transplant no problem.

Bill284 Method in my Heavens Shores thread, simple.

My apologies for the late reply.
Building the new grow room is eating all my time.
Hopefully that answers your questions.
Anything I missed let me know.
Take care.




#Love What You Grow
Bill284

Wow thanks Bill sorry lot's of quotes for you to deal with there lol, thank you very much for the reply.

I hope the new grow room is coming along nicely mate.

I'm glad to hear I can transplant without issues. I think I am going to stick with SIP because that's the title of this journal and I'm definitely curious to see what kinda success I can get as a first time grower.

The Bill284 method has been used for the seedlings (At least in part, the pots are layered like you showed) and despite me not realising the difference between coco and soil and bottom feeding them for 10 days, they seem to be doing really well.

Perhaps for my next grow I can fully utilise your method and use coco, I'll certainly have enough of it left over lol

I'll keep an eye out for further nodes I was just wondering if there was a general time they usually appear so I can prepare in advance and waste no time getting them into the 5gals as prep will take about 48 hours.

Be well and thanks for checking in <3

 

[Weffalo]

You probably let your coco dry out. Coco becomes hydrophobic when dried and is difficult to rewet so the water is probably finding open channels to run straight down to the catch pan. That or running off and down the sides between the coco and the pot. The plants look healthy so not much of an issue. You could try dunking the entire pot into a larger bucket of water for a few minutes to help rehydrate the coco and then make sure it doesn't dry out.

Won't be too long before you're ready to up-pot.

Thanks Azi yeah I definitely have let it dry out, I will try dunking them and see if I can rehydrate it but as you say, they seem to be doing okay despite my misdeeds. Progress has definitely sped up and every day there is noticeable changes/growth which is awesome

Bill and I are both coming at the watering issue from the same perspective but different solutions. The biggest challenge for most new growers is improper watering.

His pot layer method allows for a traditional watering approach without the possibility of overwatering. I like SIPs but those are sub watered.

But either way, both are superior to the traditional approach and you won't go wrong with either one.

Yep I think I understand both of the methods now at least theoritically and your right that both do elimate the issues I might face with watering but seeing as I've invested in the GroBuckets already and mentally prepared myself for a SIP journey I'm gonna stick with that one for now lol. I'm sure I will test out coco in future and it'll be great to be able to compare results regardless.

I think up-potting into the SIP will be the next big challenge and if that hurdle is cleared it should hopefully be mostly plain sailing!

Thanks again mate