Status
Not open for further replies.
@bluter

Thought I share with you;

Back I 2013-2014 I started growing a Mexican brick weed seed and a Jamaican seeded bud. Both buds had seeds.

Grew them poorly I had no experience. I had a legit female from the Jamaican seed, pheno looked Sativa dominant. And I had that Mexican brick weed seed throw out a “male”… the pheno showed first male flower at around 2 weeks after flip.
As the flowering advanced my Mexican pheno started to grow pistils completely apart of the male balls.


DSC027693.JPG
DSC028092.JPG
DSC027885.JPG
DSC027863.JPG
DSC028382.jpg


I didn’t kill it, I liked the pheno. And back in 2014 no one on this community was able to help me. No one knew anything about hermies, because all they did was kill them.

This was the Jamaican pheno, one of a kind I have never seen it again;
DSC028274.jpg
DSC028194.JPG


What I ended up doing was letting that Mexican pheno destroy all with pollen.

After that I grew a bunch of the seeds in one soil bag; to see their sex; and if they hermie. I threw like 50 seeds in a bag of soil… to my surprise a lot sprouted and a lot not female. I had males, hermies and females… Genetics right? I had no clue of anything but I kept the seeds of the best looking female of that bunch (I still had pollen from the Mexican pheno, that’s a back cross. I did it with out knowing anything)
IMG_80464.jpg
IMG_79417.jpg


I stopped publicly posting after that, I started working on stabilizing the pheno and that has taken years. Fast forward until today I had this last year;
EB39129C-35A2-4AF8-88D3-0C2112F82894.jpeg


Full on female robust and long flowering. I finally get to see the work unfold. No hermie traits at all on that pheno. I have hundreds of seeds I need to try before saying it’s stable. In all honesty it’s taken many years to achieve that last photo. But it’s my only proof that hermie can be breed out of a cultivar. It just takes for ever and it doesn’t produce money, it consumes lots of resources because the many grows you have to do.

So my 2014 question still stands, what do you do when a Male turns hermie? Have you ever seen a male turn female and self pollinate? Is there any information on the internet regarding this?

My journal had absolutely no feedback at the time because no one new anything. I’m 10 years from that moment and I have a stable plant I haven’t seen a hermie in years (until now that I start again playing with Auto flower).

All I look for is collaborative effort in information sharing.

:peace:
 
nice. that's fire brother.

i'm not saying it's impossible to breed the hermie trait out. what i am saying is the majority of current backyard home brew practices are breeding the trait in.

and there are ways to work with more stable genetics. that's it. i'm concerned about the future of our plant.

edit : it will stay there latent no matter. that's how it's works. sort of how a redhead pops up once in a while.
 
nice. that's fire brother.

i'm not saying it's impossible to breed the hermie trait out. what i am saying is the majority of current backyard home brew practices are breeding the trait in.

and there are ways to work with more stable genetics. that's it. i'm concerned about the future of our plant.

Me too. I see the stuff out there and I’m scared. We are all witnessing the destruction of biodiversity.

I rather make my own seed. Even if don’t like commercial/mainstream genetics if I see a pheno that’s worth keeping I do.

Now what got me thinking about the potential use of hermies was the fact that in 4 completely different places in the world (all very close to the equator) I got seeded bud handed to me. Why are these local growers smoking seeded bud? Is that what all Buds look like?

I could only assume all they have is inbreed linage they perpetually grow because the photoperiod near the equator allows them to have a perpetual flowering plant.

Then one grower moves that plant to a different environment then the plant expresses a different pheno trait… an so on. That’s why we see a difference between same phenos grown in highlands vs lowlands. Mexican landraces are wonderful they all have a little thing that sets them apart.

Anyway I love Cannabis, I can tell you too. Preserve the genetics if you are keen, available and willing… because another 10 years of this madness it’s all gonna be the same plant growing everywhere in the world.

Only a few seeds banks are selling old genetics and regular.
 
I could only assume all they have is inbreed linage they perpetually grow because the photoperiod near the equator allows them to have a perpetual flowering plant.


that's where the trouble is. the plant was never like that at all. even there.
 
that's where the trouble is. the plant was never like that at all. even there.

So what could be the trigger ? The photoperiod?

These are plants that are growing at 12/12 from seed, and the variation in day length in the equator or near is only like a 30 mins difference.

It can’t be just junk genetics?
 
So what could be the trigger ? The photoperiod?

These are plants that are growing at 12/12 from seed, and the variation in day length in the equator or near is only like a 30 mins difference.

equatorial plants are mostly sativa. there is a variance in day length. hence the insanely long flower period on a normal reg photo sativa.

i've ran 120 day flower period completely stable landrace sativas. they don't fuckin hermie. you been sold a bill of goods.



It can’t be just junk genetics?


bloody well yes.
 
Now what got me thinking about the potential use of hermies was the fact that in 4 completely different places in the world (all very close to the equator) I got seeded bud handed to me. Why are these local growers smoking seeded bud? Is that what all Buds look like?
In a lot of those places there are males growing close enough to pollinate the females.
And in some of the traditional areas of India they don't remove the males at all as the seeds are how they get next year's crop, and can be used as food. Seedless bud is great for smoking, but if you're making charas or hash there's no reason to go to the effort.
 
In a lot of those places there are males growing close enough to pollinate the females.
And in some of the traditional areas of India they don't remove the males at all as the seeds are how they get next year's crop, and can be used as food. Seedless bud is great for smoking, but if you're making charas or hash there's no reason to go to the effort.

I’m sure they have males and hermies all in the mix, acres and acres of plants these grower will never walk around and pick phenos… everything gets mixed with everything, harvest, keep seed, re do again. Every year for decades. That’s inbreeding lineage.

So what happens in a controlled environment? One gets to appreciate phenotypic plasticity and chose from it. That’s the advantage we have, we can chose what traits to keep and what traits to discard.

I don’t have hermies every single plant I grow. I had hermies growing one specific time with one specific seed it was a Mexican seed from south eastern peninsula Yucatán.
The seed I got from Philippines, no hermie at all but regular. Got female and males from it so far, I have only seen 2 phenos as I have only popped 2 seed.

So not everything grown in the bush in 3rd world countries is a hermie. Some of it is.
 
I’m sure they have males and hermies all in the mix, acres and acres of plants these grower will never walk around and pick phenos… everything gets mixed with everything, harvest, keep seed, re do again. Every year for decades. That’s inbreeding lineage.

So what happens in a controlled environment? One gets to appreciate phenotypic plasticity and chose from it. That’s the advantage we have, we can chose what traits to keep and what traits to discard.

I don’t have hermies every single plant I grow. I had hermies growing one specific time with one specific seed it was a Mexican seed from south eastern peninsula Yucatán.
The seed I got from Philippines, no hermie at all but regular. Got female and males from it so far, I have only seen 2 phenos as I have only popped 2 seed.

So not everything grown in the bush in 3rd world countries is a hermie. Some of it is.
Man, I would love those Phillipino beans. Heard great things about the Sativa that's on Mt, Luzon..
Congrats D:passitleft:
My wife is Phillipino so always wanted to grow those strain but heard it's tough getting beans
 
I’m sure they have males and hermies all in the mix
So not everything grown in the bush in 3rd world countries is a hermie. Some of it is.




in the wild there is something on the order of 2 - 5% of plants that may show the hermie trait. it's not at all the percentages that we keep seeing in home grows with bought genetics.
 
Man, I would love those Phillipino beans. Heard great things about the Sativa that's on Mt, Luzon..
Congrats D:passitleft:
My wife is Phillipino so always wanted to grow those strain but heard it's tough getting beans

Thanks GG. Wife and I absolutely love the Philippines 🇵🇭 their people are incredible humans, they way they live, their culture, the food is insanely good. At the time I wasn’t on a vegetarian diet so I had all the adobo possible. We want to go back. Finding the cannabis was the cherry on the top. I remember the high such an energy upper, fairly mellow for a Sativa but it’s a make you feel good sensation. I have so much respect for the growers there, they still do it even if the sentences for cannabis are so harsh even death penalty… hats off to them.

:passitleft:
 
Rainy days are laid back days, but I couldn’t resist so I went out for a stroll, did some lower defol and checked for unwanted stuff… bugs, nanners, signs of stress, disease. It’s all clear for now.

I have this Auto flower as a test pheno for high stress training, foliar feed, and grow medium results. I have also cloned this one little branch at the bottom giving me a total of 3 clones. The branch was not heavy flowering it had one pistil on it. It’s a test so I used my mother tea and sprayed the clones after the 45 degree cut on the stems, rooting hormone powder and a small light.

The pheno is totally under control, got her where I want, canopy relatively levelled and got rid of the lower stuff.

157BDA99-3C9D-4416-A0CF-E49F922C1F5B.jpeg

7ECA236D-E86D-45E0-A919-A72AACDE8C95.jpeg
00DB626E-527C-48C9-9E07-D0CA308FFCD2.jpeg

Before
10A33C63-0410-45B7-B2F6-86FB9CCF839E.jpeg

After
E363483B-34EA-4FA3-AE7E-C26735DEC4C4.jpeg
12789556-BA72-4208-82A6-B2E324C4850F.jpeg
F254BAF1-D3FA-4A18-84E7-206EE1292664.jpeg
32035ECF-B5DF-4B12-9983-8A5778A8AE5F.jpeg

Sucker branch cut off and now clones.
32257C20-5E22-4E25-9856-2F0F1DD63F4D.jpeg



Gave a her a trim job. Waiting for the rain to stop for a complete neem foliar session.


:passitleft:
 
The rest are fine and dandy; the only remark I have is that the Durban cross and the PSf1 cross look close enough, not identical but very similar, that’s that Filipino male pheno trait in there. And they are total different from the phenos on the outside environment, soooo interesting.

DURBAN DPXFM
044A5554-E05F-421D-8123-5340C3391C6A.jpeg
4474A0D8-95B6-460D-92F5-6432FBCB312B.jpeg


PERSONAL SATIVA PSF1xFM
81729575-ED3D-46D9-86CF-6F06345E0749.jpeg
2D3734A4-00F4-4139-AF79-5154D6F265C8.jpeg


The Auto with the reservoir is finally taking the training I managed to get her on the hook 🪝 shape the apical dominant top was hard to train, took multiple breaks for it to stay down and hook. She is looking way better now. I haven’t seen the root or reservoir.
A7ED5CBF-A6CE-4A77-A0ED-A09C3EF69216.jpeg
FD5DD11B-B3CF-4850-9DF7-042740733A44.jpeg

Didn’t defol this one yet.

:namaste:
 
In a lot of those places there are males growing close enough to pollinate the females.
And in some of the traditional areas of India they don't remove the males at all as the seeds are how they get next year's crop, and can be used as food. Seedless bud is great for smoking, but if you're making charas or hash there's no reason to go to the effort.

In 2018 while here on Vancouver Island, a Moroccan intern brought us like 30 seeds from a hash grow op from her town. We tossed them all in permaculture raised beds at the farm I was working on in my low key years. The results where almost 6 different phenotypes, we had a polyploid pheno I have tossed the photo of it around here a few times. What I seen was garbage mostly, lots of mutations, inconsistent traits, tall, small, pale, dark, hermie, females...

They don't care about genotypes, a landrace is shaped with time not genetics. You can have phenotypic plasticity making a genotype hermie because of environmental conditions.

Lets put it this way, if you grow up in Downtown Miami live there for 30 years and your body and mind develop in accordance to your environment, you have a steady photoperiod, warm temperatures, high humidity, etc.. and all of a sudden you are forced on a plane to live out in Nunavut and your photoperiod is 20 hours of light for 6 months, 3/4 of the year you are in snow, there is no rain, dry humidity... your body and mind will be stressed, It just wouldn’t work; Humans can fly back to their place of origins, plants can’t. So plants adapt but before, they undergo a morphological stress change, thats Hermaphroditism, from my point of view.
Your first plants will stress and hermie, passing that genetic code to the offsprings, the next generation will still suffer with the exception of the few that now have that genetic coding telling them to bulk up stems, or elongate more to reach the light, or produce higher calyx to leaf ratio to produce more seeds, what ever the plant needs to survive the new environment.

"A landrace is a domesticated, locally adapted, often traditional variety of a species of animal or plant that has developed over time, through adaptation to its natural and cultural environment of agriculture and pastoralism, and due to isolation from other populations of the species." Wikipedia

Domesticated, locally adapted, variety of something... If we grab an African cultivar and propagate here in Canada, the same genetics over a 10 year period that cultivar will then become a Landrace to the Canadian environment. No wonder why these photoperiod specific Sativas have a hard time inside a tent. We are not paying enough attention to the details.

A hermie is a phenotypical expression, the plant is trying to tell you something about her. But we don’t listen we kill them.
 
equatorial plants are mostly sativa. there is a variance in day length. hence the insanely long flower period on a normal reg photo sativa.

i've ran 120 day flower period completely stable landrace sativas. they don't fuckin hermie. you been sold a bill of goods.






bloody well yes.


read it and you will have your answer about Hermies

Its a Lab test done here in Canada with the affirmation that Hermaphrodite Cannabis pollen will produce an outstanding of Female seeds, with a rate as high as 95%
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom