The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Gee64]

Days 45, 45, 31, and 28.

No signs of red hairs in the younger 2 yet.

The white is more than the red now. It's incredible how fast the 2nd round came in.

 

[Gee64]

@Gidorah how are the Ladies? They must be huge!

 

[Azimuth]

Got up early to brix the plants an hour or so before lights out. 15 and slightly fuzzy on the problem child ( ) and a 10 or so on the new flippee.

The first plant was scheduled to be droughted at the end of this week but I'm going to let it go another week and see what happens to brix. Was it a one time reaction to the molasses water of 4 days ago, or did that Jumpstart the dump truck operation? There is still an active mite population so the higher brix hasn't been an instant fix.

And I'll keep an eye on the other and maybe goose it with molasses water as well if brix doesn't rise on its own.

Both plants get top watered with a mix of dolo water and my F&F, ppm'd to 65-90. Once brix gets over 12-15 on the new plant I'll start adding bottom watering as well to the mix to see how that plays out as I'm anxious to return to engaging the reservoir during the grow.

 

[Gee64]

Got up early to brix the plants an hour or so before lights out. 15 and slightly fuzzy on the problem child yahoo and a 10 or so on the new flippee.

Awesome!! Congrats, you've worked hard for this!

The first plant was scheduled to be droughted at the end of this week but I'm going to let it go another week and see what happens to brix.

Thats an excellent plan, like you said earlier, your stash is secure so lets science this

Was it a one time reaction to the molasses water of 4 days ago, or did that Jumpstart the dump truck operation?

Both. But the real question is can it maintain that level. What I mean by that is this could go either way and you need to find out.

The molasses jumpstarted it for sure, and it was supposed to, so now you have a fleet of dump trucks.

If the soil can supply adequate P then the fleet will grow because the plant is now capable of supplying the carbon to the microbes so myco will deliver the carbon to the areas high in P and the microbes will mine it, however the plant also requires P to consume, so if the soil has adequate P to boost the fleet as needed and supply the plant nutritionally then you are off and running. If not the plant will start to eat the dump trucks.

If the soil doesn't have adequate P then it's a one time thing and next week when you brix it will be low again.

So waiting another week has huge value, and completely forgoing droughting to monitor this plant to the end may be wisest if brix keeps climbing.

Slightly fuzzy is better but you need quite fuzzy to really be safe so keep the dolo water flowing, and if you can increase it's regularity in your watering routine without over watering you should, as in if you are using dolo every 3rd watering, go every second time for awhile, not as in extra waterings to make the soil too wet again.

And I'll keep an eye on the other and maybe goose it with molasses water as well if brix doesn't rise on its own.

I would hit it now, the sooner you get brix up the better it's odds of staying up.

Both plants get top watered with a mix of dolo water and my F&F. Once brix gets over 12-15 on the new plant I'll start adding bottom watering as well to the mix to see how that plays out as I'm anxious to return to engaging the reservoir during the grow.

Now we are talking, but I would wait until you are steadily over 12 for at least 2 weeks with a fuzzy line so you know that if it goes backwards its a sip thing, not that it was just the molasses. You need to know if brix will hold on it's own, otherwise your not there yet. If it holds, then try a change.

Cool Azi, even if brix drops again don't be discouraged, just make the next tea with molasses and EWC to see if more microbes assists.

Because microbes are 1 of the 5 main parts, it's as essential to boost their numbers early as it is to start mining P early, and have adequate calcium early to properly supply electricity and tilth, so this is why I usually do a microbe tea at the 3-4 week mark when starting from seed.

Myco counts as microbial life in this equation, so 1st you let myco get established, then you boost the microbes, and then their population will settle in properly for maximum population with proper myco management.

At that point, if calcium is good and P is abundant, then you should cross into sequestration (over 12) and never look back if you water properly to supply good O2.

I know we have discussed this many times but I want to say this 1 more time now that you see the cycle working. Soil carbon is for water retention, so in your mixes always make carbon and calcium the 1st things you think of. You can't add or subtract soil carbon once your seed pops, so the moisture content capacity of the soil must be set properly before you plant, and the calcium must be correct to buffer PH on the colloids, set tilth, and supply electricity. That ensures both water and O2 are in the ballpark.

Now you have calcium and oxygen covered, so it's possible for microbes to live, so thats 4 of 5, and only P remains. If it's in the soil then it all jumps to life after that 1st molasses/microbe tea at the 3-4 week mark and you never look back.

So 1.soil carbon and 2.calcium give you 3.oxygen to make robust 4.microbes for 5.P mining if adequate P is in the soil. All 5. Done.

Thats the cycle right there and if you have adequate light to drive it then you are properly mimicing Mother Nature.

Don't be sad if you need to prime the 1st few grows. Once your sequestered soil starts recycling you will be bringing sugars in with it and it will start self-priming. All carbon sequestration really is, is taking CO2 from the air, converting it to sugar, and storing it in the soil. Once it's working, the rich get richer.

Nice work and perserverance.

Any signs of deficiency yet? Also if it stays over 12 you may start to smell the difference in the room. Your plants will be wealthy enough to spend sugars on health and fertility, not living on a low budget and struggling just to survive.

Congrats Dude

 

[Gee64]

And an active mite population doesn't mean they are eating the plant. Mites are in all organic soils. They are part of natures balance. If they can't eat the plant because sugars are too high their population will fall back into balance.

It's a self-fixing issue if you can stay over 12. The clean-up crew never goes away, you just need to keep the plant toxic to them. As they die off the tables get turned and the plant consumes them

 

[Gee64]

This is officially the 1st time I've heard of a prison toilet-tank grow crossing into high brix. Nice!

 

[Gee64]

The replacement driver should arrive today.

I PH'd the cooking soil. It's only at 5.2 so it has a ways to go.

 

[Jon]

Hi @Gee64 - hey I hope it’s okay, I have a finished and soon to be jarred bud to share for anyone who doesn’t see my stuff.

This is the Blue Dream auto. Organic, or technically semi-organic as it’s defined here as it uses California Super Soil and FFOF. But not so much as a shot of cal mag. All organic inputs and amendments. The plant took to the mix better than any strain I’ve grown in it except maybe the Skywalker. I know it’s only a temporary mix and will be improved for the next grow, but still, in this case it worked extremely well.

From a non-organic convert in action, I’m noticing even more differences between chem and organic than I even thought there were. The difference in the terps is what I notice the most. The organic is just better on every level. Stinkier by far. And a more “pure” smell than chem, or maybe a more earthy smell is a better description. There’s even something different about the resin. I have had the Cherry Pie and Skywalker in this very grow to compare a chem version to organic. And now this Blue Dream as a stand alone organic. All three were no more outwardly frosty than any other weed I’ve grown. But holy crap are they ever on the inside. And more to the point - all three are stickier. The resin is straight up stickier than chem resin. It is like glue. I don’t see that quality in chem weed very often. I may be crazy but that’s what it seems based on the above as well as the last couple organics I grew solo. My so far observation about the trichs/resin is that chem is more outwardly frosty but organic frostiness destroys it in terms of stickiness and quality. And that’s the main thing that matters in terms of the differences - the quality of the smoke. And in this there is less than no contest. The organics destroy the chem in effects. Not even close. Yes this is only imho but it’s strongly held and now more than ever. The pain relief factor is so much higher for me with organics it is way way noticeable. The instantaneousness of the buzz and effect is noticeably stronger, faster, and more long lasting than chem. This is what I’ve always experienced but in the past I wasn’t a grower and also wasn’t in a chair and did not have daily pain to manage. So now that it’s my reality I’m very sensitive to that factor as many here are. Shit, we’re all compromised one way or another, lol, not bitching. Just saying I’m a pretty good test subject. Lol.

Anyway I’m so far beyond sold with just the minimal guidance I’ve already gotten from you and here (compared to the whole). It is greatly greatly appreciated. I will continue to learn. Cuz if I can do this with my half baked soil mix, all I can do is imagine how good it can get. And will. Thanks my man. And also to the others who may read this who have helped me along to this point, which is basically everyone else, lol. I’m so happy with this bud, and you can certainly see why in this picture.

 

[Gee64]

Wow @Jon thank you very much. This place is here to help and anything you add here, especially your findings of autos in organics is extremely encouraged. I personally have zero experience there, so I love input on it. Between yourself and @Carmen Ray organic autos will be covered quite well.

Hi @Gee64 - hey I hope it’s okay, I have a finished and soon to be jarred bud to share for anyone who doesn’t see my stuff.

Oh yeah! More is better. Me loves bud porn

This is the Blue Dream auto. Organic, or technically semi-organic as it’s defined here as it uses California Super Soil and FFOF. But not so much as a shot of cal mag. All organic inputs and amendments. The plant took to the mix better than any strain I’ve grown in it except maybe the Skywalker. I know it’s only a temporary mix and will be improved for the next grow, but still, in this case it worked extremely well.

Thats cool that you got what you did from that, but balance is key in organics so if that organic-ish mix is balanced and obviously calcium was adequate, thats all you need for stellar results. After that, you can tweak it in any direction you want.

From a non-organic convert in action, I’m noticing even more differences between chem and organic than I even thought there were. The difference in the terps is what I notice the most. The organic is just better on every level. Stinkier by far. And a more “pure” smell than chem, or maybe a more earthy smell is a better description. There’s even something different about the resin. I have had the Cherry Pie and Skywalker in this very grow to compare a chem version to organic. And now this Blue Dream as a stand alone organic. All three were no more outwardly frosty than any other weed I’ve grown. But holy crap are they ever on the inside. And more to the point - all three are stickier. The resin is straight up stickier than chem resin. It is like glue. I don’t see that quality in chem weed very often.

I don't know synthetic weed that well, even tho I'm surrounded by it in my personal group of lifelong homies, but thats exactly what their wives tell me too. I don't smoke weed that's been sprayed ever, unless it's a baby foliared with fish ferts. Even then, if it needs that it probably gets culled. So consequentially I never smoke synthetic weed either but I will certainly take your word on this, I hear it a fair bit.

I may be crazy but that’s what it seems based on the above as well as the last couple organics I grew solo. My so far observation about the trichs/resin is that chem is more outwardly frosty but organic frostiness destroys it in terms of stickiness and quality. And that’s the main thing that matters in terms of the differences - the quality of the smoke. And in this there is less than no contest. The organics destroy the chem in effects. Not even close. Yes this is only imho but it’s strongly held and now more than ever. The pain relief factor is so much higher for me with organics it is way way noticeable.

Strains that were bred for pain relief would definitely have the potential to be more effective, as when a plant controls it's nutrient intake for as much of what it wants exactly when it wants/needs it, that plant has a better chance of achieving genetic potential because as smart as us humans are we still can't talk with plants, so synthetically they get our best guess.

Organically you get genetic potential.

The instantaneousness of the buzz and effect is noticeably stronger, faster, and more long lasting than chem.

Yeah even my synthetic buddies admit this. Mine hits harder and lasts muchhhhh longer, with very minimal crash. Thats why the wives like it, they have a few puffs, then drink wine and ciders all night instead of getting high, drinking for 2 hours, then smoking again and puking lol. Girls are smart I'll give them that one

This is what I’ve always experienced but in the past I wasn’t a grower and also wasn’t in a chair and did not have daily pain to manage. So now that it’s my reality I’m very sensitive to that factor as many here are.

When weed was underground Medicinal meant organic and pure. Our government tolerated it quite well before legalization but then grey commercialism popped up, huge "medical" licenses appeared. Organics is OG Medicinal, so for you the value should be unparalleled.

Shit, we’re all compromised one way or another,

True Dat!!

lol, not bitching. Just saying I’m a pretty good test subject. Lol.

I had a guinea pig named Johnnie once, so that makes sense now

Anyway I’m so far beyond sold with just the minimal guidance I’ve already gotten from you and here (compared to the whole). It is greatly greatly appreciated. I will continue to learn.

Hehe I'm sure you will!

Cuz if I can do this with my half baked soil mix, all I can do is imagine how good it can get. And will. Thanks my man.

You pay tons forward Jon, thanks aren't nescessary, but your very welcome

And also to the others who may read this who have helped me along to this point, which is basically everyone else, lol. I’m so happy with this bud, and you can certainly see why in this picture.

Pfffft... Just some auto....

It looks fresh and yummie.

Also, curing will cure better too now from what I'm told, so all the differences you see vs synthetics will show again in 6 months. or a year. or 2.

 

[budnoob3]

Great thread here, I’ve skimmed and will be going back to read through more thoroughly. Cheers!

 

[budnoob3]

Here is a great presentation on building proper healthy soil and how it all works, and how to diagnose and recognize problems.

If you are having deficencies or a sluggish grow this hour of time will get you pointed in a direction.

Its the very basic fundamentals which in organics are almost 100% of the grow.

It puts it all into perspective in a really easy to understand format.

Glen is a fairly entertaining fellow who really knows his stuff.

Yeah its about calcium. Everything else too. But it all starts with calcium.

If you learn 1 thing from it then you had 1 fundamental wrong.

Enjoy.

omg, this is pure gold - everyone should watch this! Adding to my signature.

 

[Keffka]

Great thread here, I’ve skimmed and will be going back to read through more thoroughly. Cheers!

You’ve come to the right place. @Gee64 has a mastery of the fundamentals that’s near unrivaled. He was teaching me stuff that was years ahead of most of the research I was reading. Just this year multiple studies confirmed knowledge he gave me almost 5 years ago.

I don’t have his patience to continually teach the basics over and over. However if you wanna get into more advanced stuff like specific bacteria and fungi strains we want, water quality, or advanced remediation I’m game.

 

[budnoob3]

I love it, just that one video I added to my signature from page 5 I believe summed up all of my growing successes and failures very concisely. My gardening experience goes back about 45 years but my 420 growing only started at about 2009 or so. So I’ve learned and read a lot but the majority of my methods have been derived from observations and journaling those observations over the years to the point it’s nearly a happy accident my soil does as well as it does. I typically avoid manure in my compost based on grandpas methods but now I know why, and in fact will be scrapping my bat guano compost testing based on that info. I also always wondered why just a little sprinkling of flour when top dressing seemed to be plenty without adding additional nutrients being required, now I know. And so on… always love to learn more about the science so bring on the microbes please

 

[Keffka]

I love it, just that one video I added to my signature from page 5 I believe summed up all of my growing successes and failures very concisely. My gardening experience goes back about 45 years but my 420 growing only started at about 2009 or so. So I’ve learned and read a lot but the majority of my methods have been derived from observations and journaling those observations over the years to the point it’s nearly a happy accident my soil does as well as it does. I typically avoid manure in my compost based on grandpas methods but now I know why, and in fact will be scrapping my bat guano compost testing based on that info. I also always wondered why just a little sprinkling of flour when top dressing seemed to be plenty without adding additional nutrients being required, now I know. And so on… always love to learn more about the science so bring on the microbes please

You’re already far ahead of the curve with that amount of experience. I have a feeling a lot of what we know will just reinforce what you already know, or at least put a label on it so you know the why of what you’re seeing.

Plant and strain specific microbes are passed down generation to generation through seeds, both in and on the seed. Sterilizing a seed or germinating in water or a paper towel will kill off these strain specific microbes. This will harm your germination, health, and final quality. They will come back but not in the ratios and not with the genetic history you would get from those passed down through breeding. This is why some genetics fall apart. They’ve been bred and rebred in sterilized environments. They have no resilience and no genetic history to establish immunities.

Direct planting is the easiest way to maintain these microbes. These seed borne microbes include endophytes like rhizophagy bacteria that operate within the plant. These rhizophagy are responsible for so many internal aspects (including root hair growth) through virtue of their lifecycle alone. They produce vast levels of N and other nutrients the plants love. All without ever having to give anything other than an aerated soil. Ag scientists have found these microbes can provide up to 30% of a plants total N requirement just by pulling it from the air. That’s not including all of the other elements they use during their lifecycle.

You’re already on to it with using 30% perlite in your mixes. High levels of oxygen in the root zone allow for high levels of microbial action. This is part of what I was getting at with my container comment in your thread. That extra oxygen allows the microbes to grab more nutrients than I would be able to pack into the container in the same amount of space.

You can tweak these microbes by introducing different environmental changes. Cooler soils, higher humidity, intensity of the light, etc. As you grow in your specific conditions the microbes evolve and adapt. Those with the ability to operate efficiently win out. This is why recycling soil is so effective. The microbes have learned the environment and have adapted accordingly.

If you couple up a recycled soil with a seed you’ve bred in your environment you will find your plants growing bigger, faster, healthier, and with higher end quality. This opens up a world of opportunity. You will produce buds that have resin and terpene profiles the breeder didn’t even know was possible.

That’s just a little bit about rhizophagy bacteria and seed borne microbes.

 

[Gee64]

omg, this is pure gold - everyone should watch this! Adding to my signature.

Rabenberg is a smart dude. I like all his videos. He's goofy too so they are easy to watch.

 

[Gee64]

Great thread here, I’ve skimmed and will be going back to read through more thoroughly. Cheers!

Welcome @budnoob3

 

[Gee64]

I cleaned the tent and the driver is in town and out foe delivery. Yayy!

 

[Keffka]

You’re already far ahead of the curve with that amount of experience. I have a feeling a lot of what we know will just reinforce what you already know, or at least put a label on it so you know the why of what you’re seeing.

Plant and strain specific microbes are passed down generation to generation through seeds, both in and on the seed. Sterilizing a seed or germinating in water or a paper towel will kill off these strain specific microbes. This will harm your germination, health, and final quality. They will come back but not in the ratios and not with the genetic history you would get from those passed down through breeding. This is why some genetics fall apart. They’ve been bred and rebred in sterilized environments. They have no resilience and no genetic history to establish immunities.

Direct planting is the easiest way to maintain these microbes. These seed borne microbes include endophytes like rhizophagy bacteria that operate within the plant. These rhizophagy are responsible for so many internal aspects (including root hair growth) through virtue of their lifecycle alone. They produce vast levels of N and other nutrients the plants love. All without ever having to give anything other than an aerated soil. Ag scientists have found these microbes can provide up to 30% of a plants total N requirement just by pulling it from the air. That’s not including all of the other elements they use during their lifecycle.

You’re already on to it with using 30% perlite in your mixes. High levels of oxygen in the root zone allow for high levels of microbial action. This is part of what I was getting at with my container comment in your thread. That extra oxygen allows the microbes to grab more nutrients than I would be able to pack into the container in the same amount of space.

You can tweak these microbes by introducing different environmental changes. Cooler soils, higher humidity, intensity of the light, etc. As you grow in your specific conditions the microbes evolve and adapt. Those with the ability to operate efficiently win out. This is why recycling soil is so effective. The microbes have learned the environment and have adapted accordingly.

If you couple up a recycled soil with a seed you’ve bred in your environment you will find your plants growing bigger, faster, healthier, and with higher end quality. This opens up a world of opportunity. You will produce buds that have resin and terpene profiles the breeder didn’t even know was possible.

That’s just a little bit about rhizophagy bacteria and seed borne microbes.

Environmental factors are your single biggest decider of microbe make up with matter a close second.

There are microbes that are specially tuned to cycle N, P, K, etc. at specific temperatures, humidity, pressure, etc. So for example in the morning as the sun is coming up, specific microbes are tooling away in the cool soil. As the sun rises and warms the ground, those microbes lose efficiency. The plant recognizes this and begins rewarding the next set of microbes that are good at cycling nutrients in the warm mid day. Balancing is almost always occurring.

When you’re outdoors and in the ground this isn’t a big deal. There’s plenty of space and plenty of resources for all of the microbes to be able to hang around and step up as needed. In organics you’ll find that the more soil you can give your roots, the less work you have to do as a grower.

When you’re in a container indoors, this gets a little trickier. You have vastly less space to work with and limited resources. Not only that, typically, when indoors, the environment is held steady. The temp really only swings at lights on and off unless there’s a problem. So with that, we want to make sure we have the right microbes for the job otherwise the plant is going to waste a lot of time and energy on inefficient stuff which leads to different issues growers see that often appear to be deficiencies or sad plants. We get the right microbes by continuously growing in the same environment, recycling our soils, composting, using the same amendments, and performing good germination practices.

 

[Keffka]

Environmental factors are your single biggest decider of microbe make up with matter a close second.

There are microbes that are specially tuned to cycle N, P, K, etc. at specific temperatures, humidity, pressure, etc. So for example in the morning as the sun is coming up, specific microbes are tooling away in the cool soil. As the sun rises and warms the ground, those microbes lose efficiency. The plant recognizes this and begins rewarding the next set of microbes that are good at cycling nutrients in the warm mid day. Balancing is almost always occurring.

When you’re outdoors and in the ground this isn’t a big deal. There’s plenty of space and plenty of resources for all of the microbes to be able to hang around and step up as needed. In organics you’ll find that the more soil you can give your roots, the less work you have to do as a grower.

When you’re in a container indoors, this gets a little trickier. You have vastly less space to work with and limited resources. Not only that, typically, when indoors, the environment is held steady. The temp really only swings at lights on and off unless there’s a problem. So with that, we want to make sure we have the right microbes for the job otherwise the plant is going to waste a lot of time and energy on inefficient stuff which leads to different issues growers see that often appear to be deficiencies or sad plants. We get the right microbes by continuously growing in the same environment, recycling our soils, composting, using the same amendments, and performing good germination practices.

You will hear people scoff at people like @Gee64 and I, usually behind our backs or passive aggressively. They will claim all of this is extra and unnecessary, plants grow just fine doing xyz. While they may be right that plants will grow “just fine”, just fine isn’t what we’re looking for. My children grow plants “just fine”.

We are looking to grow the absolute highest quality plants you can possibly grow. Cannabis, veggies, fruits, doesn’t matter. If we’re growing it, we want to grow it to its absolute maximum quality. Not only do we want the highest quality, we also want to know what is going on and why. I am endlessly curious so it’s never enough that something works, I have to know how and why at a minimum.

So because of this, I will often post very long messages, or drop a lot of information at once. If anyone wants sources, or more information, please reach out and I will gladly provide it. If anyone sees any errors or has any suggestions or criticisms also please feel free to reach out.

If you’re a synthetic grower, you’re probably better reaching out to me over @Gee64 though so be warned lol

 

[budnoob3]

Thank you so much, I love the long educated posts. Much respect.