The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Keffka]

Day 42, week 6. 2 more weeks to go til the flip. Hope i can make it, these gals are getting unruly.

If you’re gonna stick with the hard sided buckets I recommend a little more aeration. Some of your leaves are showing signs of oxygen deprivation caused by too much water in the root zone. You can see they’re making themselves abnormally large and papery trying to move the water out faster. Looks like you have a fabric up front doing the same, more aeration in the medium will fix that and give greater root growth.

If it’s a SIP then more aeration will help alleviate it but you still may notice it in the lower levels as the plant adjusts, especially if you don’t sprout in a SIP

 

[Azimuth]

Nice! Yeah I'm behind on everything. The Pre-Xmas Honey-Do list is strong this year.

By finished product, I meant the harvest. How's the bud? Solid and nuggy? Not like the bunk @Keffka and @Gee64 grow?

Sounds like maybe you should try a 50/50 compost/coco run, or something close to that to split the difference.

Maybe 60/40 compost/coco, or add the coco to the compost. You can also get coco in thru the worm bins.

I know you know all of what I'm about to say, but sometimes reading it again tweaks a good thought....

It's the carbon and the K in the coco that is adding to your yields, but other than C,K, and water retention, coco hasn't got much else in it, and compost has lots of nutes but, here is what the microbes/myco want, and coco ensures it because it has a really good carbon value on the carbon scale.

10-1 carbon/nitrogen to just stay alive.
15-1 to get microbes producing
20-1 just keeps myco alive
30-1 is the perfect ratio

And the tip of the day.
add calcium to reduce excess nitrogen which raises carbon in the ratio of C to N.

So if you have enough carbon and you are still looking deficient on it, chances are you have too much nitrogen locked in your soil, because calcium is low, so magnesium holds onto the nitrogen, locking it in the soil. It's useless locked up nitrogen, but it's still there lowering your carbon ratio.

This is why you want dolomite in your global mix.

After your compost is finished, you still want some raw carbon laying around for the microbes to eat, just make sure all the greens are done composting.

Only if you cross over into high brix can you get away with less soil carbon. Until then the microbes/fungii require carbon in the correct amounts/ratios.

Carbon is your browns, nitrogen is a green.

Don't ever forget... just because nitrogen is locked up doesn't mean it isn't there.

The more nitro you lock up, the less carbon on the ratio.

Excess magnesium on the calcium to magnesium ratio locks nitrogen on a 1 to 1 basis for every extra molecule of magnesium on the ratio.

Add calcium, which fixes the calcium to magnesium ratio and the excess nitrogen vents off fixing your carbon to nitrogen ratio.

Because of this, coco/compost quite often requires a bit extra calcium to balance it.

Vent off the excess nitrogen.

So as you balance out your carbon inputs, keep these numbers in mind.

1/3 coco (or another good carbon source)

1/3 soil (used soil brings all the innoculants)

1/3 ewc or other finished organic compost

then amendments.

Thats not the only way to build a soil, just a great way, so as you work in your inputs, try to replace these thirds with anything you like, just remember that balanced soil has 3 thirds to it, so build your thirds any way you like, then combine them.

Your potions will do the rest but this is your engine, the potions are fuel sources and conditioners for the engine.

Then keep in mind that every carbon has a value, and the higher the value the more water retention and the slower release it is.

Wood is an excellent carbon source, but it breaks down so slow that you will end up with a carbon deficiency. Molasses is the other end of the scale. Its a fantastic carbon source but it's so readily available it only lasts a couple days.

Coco is the middle ground. Good finished leaf based compost isn't as good a carbon source as coco, but it has a ton of food in it too.

Higher carbon values require more perlite and more microlife.

Too much water retention displaces oxygen. Oxygen is 78% nitrogen, so too wet means your nitrogen side of the ratio is compromised.

Thats why over watering looks like a nitro deficiency, because it is.

Gotta find the balance between carbon, nitrogen, and calcium.

After you mix your thirds, and the blending is done, then add perlite until it's fluffed to your likings.

Always add the perlite last. It's not part of the math, it's just an aereator.

So here is my point, carbon is your biggest amendment by a country mile, yet it gets looked at the least. If calcium and carbon aren't correct, then air and water aren't correct. Air isn't really air if all it's nitro gets locked up, and if carbon holds too much or too little water, you have too little or too much air.

It's a base balance that needs to be correct for everything else to work correctly.

After all, organics does translate to "of carbon base" and aerobic microbes do like air.

Thanks, Gee. Yeah, you've told that to me in various forms before but it's good to reread it. It'll sink in eventually.

I'd like to have a carbon source I can produce myself which is why the compost (rather than coco) but the latest round has shown there is a difference. I'm at about 72% moisture so about another week before I get it to 62% (hopefully) and then I'll weigh them and get an actual numeric difference.

CBD requires larger harvests for full effect so I have to pay attention to quantities produced in my small space.

 

[Gee64]

Thanks, Gee. Yeah, you've told that to me in various forms before but it's good to reread it. It'll sink in eventually.

I'd like to have a carbon source I can produce myself which is why the compost (rather than coco) but the latest round has shown there is a difference. I'm at about 72% moisture so about another week before I get it to 62% (hopefully) and then I'll weigh them and get an actual numeric difference.

CBD requires larger harvests for full effect so I have to pay attention to quantities produced in my small space.

You will get it figured. You might need some lighter carbons to get things through until the leaves and such in the compost come available. Long term on the recycle, compost trumps coco, but in the beginning it may not provide enough.

It sounds like somewhere between coco and compost is the answer.

More perlite will make compost carbon work better. It can get pretty wet. I don't know if that would screw up the SIP part or not.

 

[Gidorah]

If you’re gonna stick with the hard sided buckets I recommend a little more aeration. Some of your leaves are showing signs of oxygen deprivation caused by too much water in the root zone. You can see they’re making themselves abnormally large and papery trying to move the water out faster. Looks like you have a fabric up front doing the same, more aeration in the medium will fix that and give greater root growth.

If it’s a SIP then more aeration will help alleviate it but you still may notice it in the lower levels as the plant adjusts, especially if you don’t sprout in a SIP

Hey Keff, i appreciate the insight. I did sprout in the SIP. You think some finger tilling in the top inch or two of soil would be helpful every other day or so? All my other SIP grows never grew like this, they were much smaller so i am a little concerned.

 

[Keffka]

Hey Keff, i appreciate the insight. I did sprout in the SIP. You think some finger tilling in the top inch or two of soil would be helpful every other day or so? All my other SIP grows never grew like this, they were much smaller so i am a little concerned.

Can’t hurt.. I like to dig around an inch or two with my fingers across the whole top at least once a week to make sure the soil isn’t caking up, and breaking up any that has. If you’re really really concerned you can drive some bamboo stakes or some other rounded tip down to the bottom from the top. The roots will regrow if you hit any.

The plants overall look healthy, just slightly suffocated. I’ve seen it across a few SIP grows and the best answer is to cut in more perlite. I always add 25% perlite to everything I’m doing and if I was in a SIP I’d probably go 30. This also helps alleviate overwatering. Mix it with fabric pots and you could water every day and be fine.

 

[Azimuth]

Long term on the recycle, compost trumps coco, but in the beginning it may not provide enough.

Oh, that's encouraging. I'm ok waiting it out and I've got some of that compost in my old soil part that's a year or so old so maybe I'm getting close to that point.

More perlite will make compost carbon work better. It can get pretty wet. I don't know if that would screw up the SIP part or not.

Right now I'm trying the aeration part using worms but I'll probably start adding back in perlite in future rounds.

Onward!

 

[Gee64]

Here are todays hang weights.

Shorty 1 - Leaner Dec 12 - Day 65
Dec 12 - 1015g wet.
Dec 13 - 639g 62.95% of harvest weight
Dec 14 - 439g 43.25% of harvest weight
Dec 15 - 328g 32.31% of harvest weight
Dec 16 - 255g 25.12% of harvest weight
Dec 17 - 225g 22.17% of harvest weight

Shorty 2 Dec 13 - Day 66
Dec 13 - 1089g wet
Dec 14 - 737g 67.67% of harvest weight
Dec 15 - 530g 48.66% of harvest weight
Dec 16 - 361g 33.15% of harvest weight
Dec 17 - 274g 25.16% of harvest weight

 

[Lerugged]

@Lerugged can help you here.

Sorry just saw this now. You can try again. The site is live.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Sorry just saw this now. You can try again. The site is live.

Chom, I think they mean that they are looking for a cart and payment for checkout. You're asking people to order via the Contact form, is that right?

 

[Jon]

Finished product? Have you not been paying attention?? There is no finished product as everything is still being tweaked. And will probably be that way forever as that seems to be how I roll.

That said, I am quite pleased by the way things are going.

The coco vs compost experiment is drying and although the coco one looked like crap it seems to have out produced the compost version. And the coco version would likely have been even better since I failed to account for coco needing extra Ca, but it was interesting to see the difference side-by-side.

I'll run the next round compost only to better dial in my extracts but, other than the burned leaves from too strong a potion, my leaves are looking pretty good 5 weeks into flower on the latest round. So, getting closer but still not there quite yet.

I changed out my main strain and don't even have my first harvest with it yet but I'll try various things in future rounds like adding coco again, and different amounts of perlite, etc.

I'm wondering if I could have a pretty decent run using my basic mix with compost and mulch as more background support and rely more on my potions down the pipe regularly, so that's what I'll test next round. Thinner versions of the extracts more frequently is the plan.

Cloning continues to go well and I promoted another entire batch to the worm bin as i don't need them. I think I'm finding the much coarser sand mix is better than the out-of-the-package mix so I'll try screening out the fines and run a side-by-side test at some point.

Congrats on your recent harvest. Looks tasty!

Damn, sure would be awesome to lay eyes on a super secret Azi decoder ring grow in a…I dunno….journal?

 

[Gee64]

Damn, sure would be awesome to lay eyes on a super secret Azi decoder ring grow in a…I dunno….journal?

IKR!!!!!

 

[Gee64]

Damn, sure would be awesome to lay eyes on a super secret Azi decoder ring grow in a…I dunno….journal?

She's a shy one

Hey Gee, i might have asked this already but i forgot. When your Rose kush took 9 weeks, are you counting from the day you flipped the lights or after the stretch when pistils start showing?

From flip day.

 

[Jon]

IKR!!!!!

I give him shit all the time about it. Lol! Your buds look half decent for a relative newbie.

 

[Gee64]

I have seen 2 schools of thought on what is considered to be the 1st day of flower.

One is the flip date, which I consider the 1st day, because thats the day you triggered the process.

The other is that Day 1 is when the 1st pistils appear.

Well I don't really agree with that and here is why.

If you let your plants get old enough to be properly sexually active, before flipping, you will already have pistils showing while still in veg, so if you go by when the 1st pistils show, you could be counting veg days as flower days.

I don't flip anything if the preflowers aren't out.

I have had mother plants under 18/6 showing pistils in veg for 3 years, and when you cut clones they already have pistils when you cut them, so 14 days in a cloner and 14 days to root in would mean you are on day 28 of flower, but you are still on 18/6 and just barely rooted in. That makes no sense.

However, the day I flip I also see pistils, as they have been there since veg, so I guess if you veg correctly, flip day is the 1st day of the flower cycle that you see pistils on, so flip day covers both bases.

If you don't see any pistils before flipping, you are flipping too soon. It will cost you on harvest day.

Just because the nodes are staggered doesn't mean she's ripe to breed yet, she needs pistils showing, just as a 13 year old girl can get pregnant, but a 21 year old girl will carry a healthier pregnancy.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it

 

[Lerugged]

Chom, I think they mean that they are looking for a cart and payment for checkout. You're asking people to order via the Contact form, is that right?

Yeah you send me your order and I send you a pay request from PayPal. I still need to link it but it's been a bit of a struggle.
But yeah, let me know what you want and I'll get right back to you with everything else.

 

[StoneOtter]

Here are todays hang weights.

Shorty 1 - Leaner Dec 12 - Day 65
Dec 12 - 1015g wet.
Dec 13 - 639g 62.95% of harvest weight
Dec 14 - 439g 43.25% of harvest weight
Dec 15 - 328g 32.31% of harvest weight
Dec 16 - 255g 25.12% of harvest weight
Dec 17 - 225g 22.17% of harvest weight

Shorty 2 Dec 13 - Day 66
Dec 13 - 1089g wet
Dec 14 - 737g 67.67% of harvest weight
Dec 15 - 530g 48.66% of harvest weight
Dec 16 - 361g 33.15% of harvest weight
Dec 17 - 274g 25.16% of harvest weight

So at your Dec 17th weights what does your rh look like in the container?

 

[Gee64]

So at your Dec 17th weights what does your rh look like in the container?

They are still hanging in the dark. The room sits about 68F in the day, 62F at night, and a steady 38-40RH. No fans.

One for sure will be going into a sweat tub today, so I will let you know what it comes out at after it homogenizes for a day. Probably about 72% I would guess. The stems are just starting to get crackly now on the one getting tubbed today.

The plant that looked like at least a week more, because every trich was still clear, has completely ripened to perfection on Day 71, so pretty much bang on. What a turn around. It literally ripened overnight.

The mace head pheno isn't quite there yet.

So I'm harvesting today too. And then 1 more time in the next few days.

This has been a good run for a new light and new soil. I worried a lot, but hardly had to do anything at all.

I have to be particular harvesting these last two, as I have to leave foliage for the reveg, and some small bottom buds.

Then into the veg tent. Back to 18/6.

They will be stunted and weak for a couple weeks, I hope bugs don't find them.

I didn't do any real droughting (autowater off for 36 hours) because I decided I wanted the reveg.

 

[Personal Stash]

If you’re gonna stick with the hard sided buckets I recommend a little more aeration. Some of your leaves are showing signs of oxygen deprivation caused by too much water in the root zone. You can see they’re making themselves abnormally large and papery trying to move the water out faster. Looks like you have a fabric up front doing the same, more aeration in the medium will fix that and give greater root growth.

If it’s a SIP then more aeration will help alleviate it but you still may notice it in the lower levels as the plant adjusts, especially if you don’t sprout in a SIP

What's SIP if you don't mind me eavesdropping here? lol. I just learned a valuable piece of information about the over-large, papery leaves. Thanks.

 

[Carmen Ray]

What's SIP if you don't mind me eavesdropping here? lol. I just learned a valuable piece of information about the over-large, papery leaves. Thanks.

A SIP is a sub-irrigated planter. Azimuth is the main advocate for growing SIP style. Azi will be here shortly I bet.

 

[Personal Stash]

Thanks Carmen Ray.