SweetSue's Perpetual 2.0 - The Transition To Doc Bud's HBB Kit

[Radogast]

Major frosty indeed! Is this small size seen in other grows Dave? I haven't looked around myself. It's amazing how infrequently I research what I'm growing. As inventory improves I find I'm less concerned with yield and more interested in exploring terpene profiles.

In her profile it says that she won't stretch much so let her get as big as you want in veg. I will work her clone so that she has more veg time and see if I can get a better yield. It ill be interesting to see how she dries in the new fridge set up.

My Bubba's Gift went from 12" high with 12x17" canopy to 19" high in 54 days.

I estimate her harvest at 3oz, totally acceptable in such a small plant.

(I have to estimate harvest because I left 1/3 of her buds on her in a re-veg attemp after my cloner pump became clogged.)

 

[Morglie]

Thank you Jim. I'd have to give some of the credit to the ripening bananas in there. I keep wondering if I'm imagining it, but there's a new lushness to the blossoms that can't be completely explained away by my unbridled enthusiasm. Lol! The girl behind her looks to be the biggest one yet. I've been training her following Pigeons 420's techniques. She's filling out the 7 gallon pot nicely.

I've been putting peels in my flower room last week and I was thinking the same thing about two of my plants that are around the same spot in flower as your critical cure. I think there's something to this.

 

[SweetSue]

An intelligent rebuttal to budwashing

I was enjoying Pigeon's wake 'n bake video and he started discussing a response to this his budwashing video posted the other day. It intrigued me enough that I wanted to bring the conversation here. If what he says is true, we need to rethink our practice.

"While I like the idea of this a lot especially for flavor and purity, as an actual scientist I simply can't let it slip! Let me explain people...

I'd simply just use a mild hydrogen peroxide water mix. It's just as natural and actually does what you want, is extremely effective at killing microbes, and naturally foams when it reacts with such helping to clear debris...this happens on a chemical level basically meaning every spot it touches is near instantly sanitized and microscopic debris lifts up with the bubbles. If this reaction is strong enough you see lots of bubbles, hence why your cuts foam.

The lemon juice as an antiseptic is not accurate. If anything the sulfur dioxide (sulfite) in the plastic bottle lemon juice is doing the sanitation. It's the same stuff erupted from volcanoes, burned off of petroleum, and is known as a mild nerve agent which blocks signals to the pulmonary system. I don't make this up look for yourself. If you're going for natural you need to stop using that. They are preservatives and fungicides, also likely why you don't mold when you do this , and why they dry faster. The sulfite so cause faster drying. You will not wash it all off, it's as simple as that. Actual lemon juice has an extremely mild effect on preventing further growth of bacteria due to its ascidic nature but will not kill anything directly unless extreme pH fluctuations (fluctuations being key) cause death but you would need much more concentrated solutions with 5 gallons of water. That being said, you're neutralizing the acid with the alkaline baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). Thus you are not sanitizing anything and the only effect you have left is the supposed "foaming" action. But the 1 cup of baking soda to 5 gallons of water doesn't come close to saturating the water. This means you have a full dilution and no granular to "blast" the dirt off. Unless you shake it like a mad man you will not create enough friction between the suspended particles and the water which means it won't bubble or foam enough to do anything widespread across all surface areas. Most of those bubbles are localized air bubbles you've introduced by bobbing the bud up and down. This is not an effective way to get dust and microbes off-maybe for large debris like bugs and dirt chunks. You'd really have to shake it and it won't work well, especially not that gentle caress you're giving it!

With that said, if you think it does all that then I won't stop ya! Right on brother!" - ACElectro Alex

I don't know about you, but it made me sit right up and rethink the process.

Peroxide is suggested for the first wash if mold is present. Could this be all we need, followed by the two plain water washes, and would the dilution suggested by Doc be effective? We have some scientists among us. Any ideas on this?

 

[Skullman420]

As a former scientist think I second that. It sounds logical, but it is not my field so further reading required to form an opinion. I never washed my buds. Believe in keeping a clean grow-room. I have filters on the air-intake stopping tiny particles from ever entering the grow, hence I never need to wash the buds

An intelligent rebuttal to budwashing

I was enjoying Pigeon's wake 'n bake video and he started discussing a response to this his budwashing video posted the other day. It intrigued me enough that I wanted to bring the conversation here. If what he says is true, we need to rethink our practice.

"While I like the idea of this a lot especially for flavor and purity, as an actual scientist I simply can't let it slip! Let me explain people...

I'd simply just use a mild hydrogen peroxide water mix. It's just as natural and actually does what you want, is extremely effective at killing microbes, and naturally foams when it reacts with such helping to clear debris...this happens on a chemical level basically meaning every spot it touches is near instantly sanitized and microscopic debris lifts up with the bubbles. If this reaction is strong enough you see lots of bubbles, hence why your cuts foam.

The lemon juice as an antiseptic is not accurate. If anything the sulfur dioxide (sulfite) in the plastic bottle lemon juice is doing the sanitation. It's the same stuff erupted from volcanoes, burned off of petroleum, and is known as a mild nerve agent which blocks signals to the pulmonary system. I don't make this up look for yourself. If you're going for natural you need to stop using that. They are preservatives and fungicides, also likely why you don't mold when you do this , and why they dry faster. The sulfite so cause faster drying. You will not wash it all off, it's as simple as that. Actual lemon juice has an extremely mild effect on preventing further growth of bacteria due to its ascidic nature but will not kill anything directly unless extreme pH fluctuations (fluctuations being key) cause death but you would need much more concentrated solutions with 5 gallons of water. That being said, you're neutralizing the acid with the alkaline baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). Thus you are not sanitizing anything and the only effect you have left is the supposed "foaming" action. But the 1 cup of baking soda to 5 gallons of water doesn't come close to saturating the water. This means you have a full dilution and no granular to "blast" the dirt off. Unless you shake it like a mad man you will not create enough friction between the suspended particles and the water which means it won't bubble or foam enough to do anything widespread across all surface areas. Most of those bubbles are localized air bubbles you've introduced by bobbing the bud up and down. This is not an effective way to get dust and microbes off-maybe for large debris like bugs and dirt chunks. You'd really have to shake it and it won't work well, especially not that gentle caress you're giving it!

With that said, if you think it does all that then I won't stop ya! Right on brother!" - ACElectro Alex

I don't know about you, but it made me sit right up and rethink the process.

Peroxide is suggested for the first wash if mold is present. Could this be all we need, followed by the two plain water washes, and would the dilution suggested by Doc be effective? We have some scientists among us. Any ideas on this?

 

[rikvasen]

And I think it's just fun to do so why the hell not. My very first harvest also included bud washing but that wasn't a nice experience because I was doing that while sitting on my knees and my knees got tired and hurt. So next time (which is damn soon) I will be doing that on a chair!

I still need to decide what strains I want to plant next... I think the same Northern Lights Auto and then a Chocolope auto and Blueberry auto plus a normal photo blueberry and purple auto!

 

[Dave Groomer]

Am I crazy? This is my CBD Critical Mass. She is about 8 weeks in veg and is supposed to be upsized tomorrow to 7gal pot. Is she flowering? I didn't order ANY autos. This is going to seriously piss me off if the seed bank I used sent me the wrong seeds.

 

[Amadeus Forzin]

Looks that way to me groomer. Check them calyxes at the internodes, pics blurry but they look suspect.

High Sue

 

[Dave Groomer]

Looks that way to me groomer. Check them calyxes at the internodes, pics blurry but they look suspect.

High Sue

That just pisses me off. I don't buy autos because I clone everything. A waste of 8 weeks for something I hoped to make a perpetual. I think I still need to upsize her. She is looking a little stuffed in the 1 gal pot.

 

[Skullman420]

she's flowering allright

 

[rikvasen]

That just pisses me off. I don't buy autos because I clone everything. A waste of 8 weeks for something I hoped to make a perpetual. I think I still need to upsize her. She is looking a little stuffed in the 1 gal pot.

If she is an autoflower then she will stress the hell out of transplanting. Auto's can't handle stress that well.

 

[Amadeus Forzin]

That just pisses me off. I don't buy autos because I clone everything. A waste of 8 weeks for something I hoped to make a perpetual. I think I still need to upsize her. She is looking a little stuffed in the 1 gal pot.

Up canning her now may do more harm than good, some autos can get a little pissy when you do things like that.

 

[Dave Groomer]

If she is an autoflower then she will stress the hell out of transplanting. Auto's can't handle stress that well.

Thanks. I was going to ask. I don't do autos.

 

[Dave Groomer]

Up canning her now may do more harm than good, some autos can get a little pissy when you do things like that.

Do I do drenches different with her? She looks like a plant about 1 week into flower. I usually do cats at 21 days. Should she get her cat in 2 weeks? Also, will it hurt her to move her to the flower tent at 12/12? Thanks gang.

 

[Graytail]

Re: The Budwashing rebuttal ...

I was a chem/physics/math guy and yup, it sounds legit to me. But note the emphasis on sanitizing. If your goal is to remove or neutralize toxins, then lemon juice and baking soda are not your best prospects.

And I've always been a little suspicious of the debris removing properties. The idea of any foaming action never made sense, and the acid and base neutralize themselves, so there's no pH action either. Bobrown recently brought up soap nuts on another thread, and after looking into it I think they'd be a useful addition as a surfactant, which should be more effective than lemon/soda.

The results speak for themselves. After a wash, the produce cures better and smokes better, period. It is, without doubt, a good idea.
But I'm sure we can improve it.

Oh, and Sue asked me about DeStress and why we should use it when the plants look fine. DeStress is absorbed into the stoma and causes the roots to exude different sugars. It's soil food. We don't want to completely discontinue it when the plants look great. Until recently, I believed it was necessary to spray on schedule, once a week. But Doc has been consistently saying that it isn't necessary unless the plants show stress. And the formulas have been improving so I'm going to back off for my next run. DeStress has micronutrients that can build up and eventually cause crispy foliage. So, I think the best advice now is to use it when the plant looks weak, skip it otherwise, but don't leave it completely out of the schedule. It's still soil food.

 

[kelticBlue]

I only used the lemon juice/baking soda on my first wash. Since then I just use water like i would on produce. Mostly just lazy. But I feel better with a light easy wash of bud. ( i get cat hair everywhere )

How is the UD looking Sue?

 

[Amadeus Forzin]

Do I do drenches different with her? She looks like a plant about 1 week into flower. I usually do cats at 21 days. Should she get her cat in 2 weeks? Also, will it hurt her to move her to the flower tent at 12/12? Thanks gang.

No idea how docs drenches work, yet. Research stage is complete, im on the planning stage now.

 

[SweetSue]

If she is an autoflower then she will stress the hell out of transplanting. Auto's can't handle stress that well.

Autos are heartier than we give them credit for. Transplant her Dave, if you haven't already. Be gentle with her and use Roots! She'll bounce back. If you have a five gallon pot that will like be big enough.

All things happen for a reason Dave. You know this truth better than most. The seed bank must have a policy to make it right.

Hello Mr Am4zin

Do I do drenches different with her? She looks like a plant about 1 week into flower. I usually do cats at 21 days. Should she get her cat in 2 weeks? Also, will it hurt her to move her to the flower tent at 12/12? Thanks gang.

If she's an auto, and indicators certainly point towards that, she's ready for the CATs as soon as buds are set, which looks like what's going on. Autos are light feeders, so the regular drench schedule of drench, water, water, drench should be fine. Might want to skip recharge and add in the soil when you cook it for the next run. I'm trying that with mine. I'm thinking I might want to leave recharge completely out of the soil I use for autos. I keep that soil separate from the rest anyway because it's two gallons less than my regular pots.

I only used the lemon juice/baking soda on my first wash. Since then I just use water like i would on produce. Mostly just lazy. But I feel better with a light easy wash of bud. ( i get cat hair everywhere )

How is the UD looking Sue?

I'd consider adding peroxide to the water next time keltic. I think we can improve on the method and end up with better buds. I'm ready to test it out. I've always wondered what the lemon juice might be doing to my terpenes. Time to do more than be curious about it.

I love experimenting.

Thank you Graytail for the explaination of DeStress.

...... Oh yes, UD.....

I appear to have some yellowing going on.

Wonderful profile though.

Vigorious growth all over the plant.

So I'm not really sure what to do about the yellowing leaves. Any suggestions? I'm using CaliMagic at the suggested rate of 1 tsp per gallon. It doesn't appear to be enough under my lights.

Arctic Bowl, before I forget, yes, I recommend COB lighting and there are a number of ways to go with DIY. The quantum boards show great promise for future developments. The thrill of expansion, eh?

I'm amazed the country isn't embracing home growing. Look at the way we stimulate the economy.

I have a DeStress foliar to prepare for a droopy girl.

 

[Dave Groomer]

I have sent a note to the bank. We will see what thy say.

 

[lexort420]

If thats a osmos girl then Tead might know whats up, it might be heat or too much nutes kinda hard to say for sure. Either way she dont look bad to me! On the topic of homegrown you would think we would value it, and some do, but its lost money for the goverment so ofcourse they wont be happy about that.

 

[SweetSue]

I think this one's trying to tell me that she's tired of the limited root space. She still has a week to go. I may be using DeStress a couple more times with her.