Continuing on:
Treating Cancer With Cannabis - A Green Flower Media class with Mara Gordon (1
26)
Mara begins at 2:12
A personal thought: In explaining her choice to focus on cancer she begins a litany of the beloved family members she's
lost to cancer. It always surprises me to find someone who thinks of death in the context of something "lost", other than the intimate contact. Painful for sure, but by choice. Everything you feel is by choice. Ha! I ran right into the face of grief, threw out my arms and shouted "let's be friends. You look like you could use a hug."
Not that I'd expect anyone else to follow my example, but then I got through grief in a very short time and came out stronger by far.
Anyway, back to the class. Lol!
3:38 She believes that by using cannabis she's extending both the longevity and quality of her life. She also believes she was dealt a poor genetic deck. I'd rewrite that story if it were me.
Location of eCBRs in the body:
- eCBs like anandamide and 2AG activate
or influence receptors in the body
- if you're deficient in eCB production or availability exogenous phytocannabinoids from cannabis can be substituted
- eCB1 are primarily in the CNS
- eCB2 are primarily in the periphery organs, esp in the immune system
When creating treatment protocols you focus on the receptors. Which ones are where you're treating?
We all have cancer cells. Our immune response is evolved to keep them in controllable numbers.
- In an unhealthy system cancer cells have a better chance of mutating and proliferating
- As tumor cells grow in number angiogenesis occurs, supplying the community with much-needed blood supply. Cancer cells are hungry buggers.
Cell mutation >>> uncontrolled cell proliferation >>> angiogenesis >>> metastasis
Cannabis is known to be useful in treating oncological pain and side effects like appetite loss, nausea and vomiting.
Side effects of conventional cancer treatments include
- hair loss
- anemia
- pain (bone, joint, chest, muscle)
- toxicity (heart, liver, kidneys)
- lack of appetite, nausea, vomiting
Her organization doesn't recommend Marinol (synthetic cannabinoids) because
1) it's an uncomfortable experience for the patient
2) it lacks the entourage effect of full-plant extractions
Cannabinoid therapies will help with side effects of standard chemotherapy and radiation therapy.
** Cannabinoids will also interfere with tumor progression.
- THC initiates apoptosis through the activation of eCBs.
- CBD interferes with angiogenesis through less understood pathways.
At 8:02: she mentions that THC fits "like a key in a lock." We now know it isn't as simple as that. At the time this was accepted science.
Apoptosis is cell suicide. It doesn't harm the neighbors.
Dr. Christian Snachez, cannabinoid researcher, compares necrosis caused by chemo and radiation to a car crash. Lots of collateral damage.
Conventional cancer treatments of chemo and radiation must be done slowly, over time, because if you kill off too many cells at once you can kill the patient with the wave of toxins and waste materials that result from necrosis.
- To the brink of death, and hopefully they can bring you back. *sigh*
Rarely will such an unhappy journey result in true healing. Possibly why it returns so often. Deal in fear, watch people die of it. Deep breath girl.
Necrosis vs Apoptosis
- apoptosis is clean, necrosis is messy
- necrosis brings inflammation (pain), apoptosis doesn't cause inflammatory response
- Necrosis is like a crash the body must react to, whereas apoptosis is a natural cellular program your body is evolved to handle.
- You don't have the cleanup of surrounding cells damaged by the treatment with apoptosis.
Anytime you have inflammation you have disease.
The ID-1 gene
Many cancers are treated with a higher level of THC and a lower level of CBD.
- CBD doesn't activate receptors directly. It's an allosteric modulator of the eCBs.
- In cancers with the ID-1 gene cell proliferation is increased.
- CBD down-regulates the expression of ID-1, restricting the proliferation of cancer cells and metastasis.
Cancers with high levels of ID-1 expression are
brain, liver, lung, skin, and thyroid gland cancer.
Cannabidiol is a major component in the cancer treatment protocol of:
- Non-small cell lung cancer
- Gastric cancer
- Breast cancer
- Prostate cancer
- Melanoma
- Glioblastoma
- Hepatocarcinoma
- Anaplastic thyroid tumor
- Metastasis of certain cancers
You still use THC in these regimens, but in reduced doses.
Cancer metastasis:
- Skin melanoma to the brain
- Breast cancer to the liver, lungs, bone, and brain
- Lung cancer to bone, adrenal gland, and brain
- Pancreatic cancer to the liver and lungs
- Colorectal cancer to the liver
- Ovarian cancer to the liver and pleura
When Aunt Zelda's has a Glioblastoma patient on what they consider to be a standard regimen of a 3:1 THC:CBD ratio and it's not working they simply flip the ratios to 1:3 THC:CBD
- Testing for the ID-1 gene isn't part of the traditional testing package so Aunt Zelda's sometimes has to work by trial and error.
If the therapy you're following isn't doing it at your current ratios try flipping them. See what happens.
Comparing Glioblastoma patient doses by age
* 4-yr old female: 1:1, 405 mg each
* 23-yr old: 3:1, 300 mg THC, 100 mg CBD
* 28-yr old: 2:1, 200 mg THC, 100 mg CBD
* 50-yr old: 3:1, 150 mg THC, 50 mg CBD
* 54-yr old: 3:1, 300 mg THC, 100 mg CBD
* 58-yr old: 3.5:1, 350 mg THC, 100 mg CBD
* 61-yr old: 1:2, 100 mg THC, 200 mg CBD
(treatment for side-effects of chemotherapy)
* 88-yr old male: ~ 2:1, 75 mg THC, 30 mg CBD
What works for one patient will not necessarily work for another, but their experience is beginning to show some patterns.
- There is
no correlation between patient weight and dose with cancer patients.
- If your doctor begins talking about mg/kg you can be sure this physican is untrained in the realities of cannabinoid therapies.
There appears to be more of a correlation between the age of the patient and the dose.
- The younger the patient the higher the dose.
- The older the patient the lower the dose.
Generalizations, yes, but cannabis is a medication that requires the same therapeutic approach of start low and go slow, so you find the optimal therapeutic dose individually.
The discussion between patient and Doctor should cover whether you intend to use cannabis as a healing modality or simply as a way to keep the side effects of conventional treatments minimalized, as much as possible.
- This is the decision of the patient. Determine it at the beginning. Respect it.
We aren't offering a cure. We offer relief so your body can cure itself.
Cannabis isn't a cure. Only you can cure the systemic disease that is cancer, and it's recommended you continue on a low maintenance dose.
- If you think you can cure your cancer and return to the lifestyle and diet that preceeded the diagnosis, you're only fooling yourself.
The disease exists to make you whole. Something in your life is out of sorts and you're ignoring it, believing it's not worth worrying about. If you ignore the message you don't fully heal.
Comparing Breast Cancer patient doses by age
* 35-yr old female: 2:1, 30 mg THC, 15 mg CBD
* 43-yr old: 1:1, 150 mg each
* 44 p-yr old: 2:1, 150 mg THC, 75 mg CBD
* 45-yr old female: 1:1, 250 mg each
* 47-yr old: 1:1, 100 mg each
* 57-yr old: ~ 1:3, 30 mg THC, 100 mg CBD
It's an individualized regimen, much like physicans do for pharmaceutical medicines.
Cannabis can be intimidating because it's a complex medicine, but it's always a customized dose, so nothing to fear.
If it's not working for you it means nothing more than that this particular regimen isn't working, so tweak it somehow and see what happens.
- try another terpene combination
- change the dose timing
- change administration method
There are many ways to customize the medication. Stick with it and keep trying.
Many patients get their diagnosis and the person advising them on their cannabinoid choices is a bud tender with little if any training in therapies. When you treat serious disease it helps to have some understanding of the ECS and its function and how to build and maintain a working cannabinoid regimen.
Case study: 46-yr old female
Severe form of breast cancer with metastases to her liver, kidneys, as well as other locations throughout her body.
Medicine #1
Target cannabinoid: THC
Frequency: 1 x daily
Dosage: 1: 35 mg Evening
Ingestion Method: Sublingual
Medicine #2
Target cannabinoid: CBD
Target dose: 35 mg
Frequency: 2 x daily
Dosage 1:17.5 mg Morning
Dosage 2:17.5 mg Afternoon
Ingestion method: Sublingual
Her major THC dose is at evening, so she'll sleep better and miss some of the more uncomfortable side effects of high-dose THC.
- Many people find the euphoria pleasant, but sometimes when you
have to take it it can get old.
The projected dose is just a goal. People need something they're striving for when they try to figure out a new medicine, but cases start subtherapeuticly and titrate slowly and thoughtfully.
Begin at 23:10
Q & A Session
The difference between using cannabis to treat symptoms vs using it to treat the disease.
- When covering symptoms only you aren't concerned with establishing a therapeutic dose to kill cancer cells. You're more concerned about managing nausea, pain, sleep patterns.
- Your dose for managing symptoms may not be high enough to kill cancer cells.
- When you're treating cancer you're creating a systemic atmosphere with cannabinoids that leads to the reduction of cancer cells through natural processes.
Standard ratio for sleep is between 15-20 mg of THC, with a small amount of CBD and the desired terpene profile for sleep.
Pain management with functionality is between 10-50 mg of cannabinoids, spread over the day.
Killing cancer cells requires much higher numbers,
- How advanced is the disease?
- What's the actual diagnosis? There are over 200 known types of cancers.
- An average cancer patient treating the disease with cannabis may be on a combination of THC-dominant and CBD-dominant medicines to the tune of 300 mg a day.
Symptom management is maxed at 25-50 mg of cannabinoids a day.
You start low and titrate slowly in part to build a tolerance to the cannabinoid doses.
- Some patients will be super-sensitive to cannabis, in particular to THC.
- The biphasic effect of cannabis means that for a super-sensitive person it won't take much THC to create the very thing you were trying to eliminate. For example, too much THC can make them nauseous.
You practice caution when dosing, but moreso when dosing a patient super-sensitive to the medicine.
- You start such a patient very low.
- Mara's company produces a medicine that's 10 mg/ml per major cannabinoid. She's started patients at one drop, or 1/3 mg.
- The worst thing you can do with cannabis, in Mara's opinion, is to take the dose all at once, have a miserable experience, and then write off cannabis as a potential healing modality.
Once you get the dose up to 35 mg of the major cannabinoids you can begin titrating more quickly.
- When you reach the point where you can't adjust comfortably to the dose, back off ever so slightly and the psychoactivity will drop off. This is the optimal therapeutic dose.
- Tolerance is common when you're using the same medicine.
The biphasic nature of cannabis is such that the wrong dose can cause what you're trying to treat.
- With seizure disorder it's known that a too-low dose, as well as one too excessive can both cause more seizures to occur.
- The need for more research exists, but with cancer there appears to be evidence that the wrong dose can cause the proliferation of more cancer cells.
Mara's team starts patients low and slow because you want to see what the patient can tolerate as far as cannabinoids, but also to see how the patient can tolerate feeling euphoric.
- Some people have more need to be in control.
Countering euphoria
-If you take too much THC you can bring yourself down with a hot shower.
- You can also counter uncomfortable euphoria with a dose of CBD. CBD is an antagonist of the eCBRs
Susan... Check the literature, is CBD really an antagonist?
I know CBD is an allosteric modulator, but the question here is does it, in fact, block the receptors? Find the reference.
- Take a walk.
- Watch some funny videos.
- Take a nap.
- Sniff some black peppercorns. They contain b-caryophyllene, which will activate the CB2 receptors.
Don't overlook adding terpenes into the diet. For example, Mara recounts a patient that has a cancer located where there's a wealth of CB2 receptors, so she has him include lots of black pepper in his diet choices.
Mangoes are high in myrcene. If you eat mangoes before dosing the myrcene will increase the bioavailability of the cannabinoids by making it easier to get through the BBB.
Pick up at 35:21. It's starting to cycle for refresh too often to continue
Countering the fear of using canna is as a medicine you hold to the understanding that nothing here is going to hurt you. If you have a bad experience you can seperate yourself from the experience, acknowledging that this may be the wrong mix for you, but it'll wear off, and you'll stil be yourself.
Advise patients to start at a low dose and stay there until they don't feel the euphoria before increasing the dose.
- Keep doing that until you reach a level that you can't adjust to.
- Back off slightly, one step. Euphoria should now be controlled. This is the optimal therapeutic dose
Everytime I write that it's more firmly etched in my memory. This, IMO, is the easiest part of building a regimen. Every one starts the same and increases the same way. Sometimes ratios change, or a chemovar may be substituted, but the establishment of the OTD is standard - Start low and go slow.
What does it mean when we say "can't handle it?"
It means that the euphoria is so intense that it's the dominant thing in your experience, and you aren't enjoying it. It's a dominant presence in your life instead of being your medicine that allows you to live your life.
Not everyone can function on SweetSue med levels. Lol!
The goal of a regimen is to be as fully functional in their lives as possible overwhelming euphoria can interfer with most people's lives. This isn't medicine by intoxication.
However, when you treat cancer you begin by getting to the OTD and you stay there until the next labs and scans come in. It may be that the OTD for your comfort isn't high enough to set the cancer in retreat. If not, the dose goes up, and the patient adjusts.
And this is why we developed biobombs as suppositories increased doses without overwhelming euphoria.
The reality is you have a catastrophic disease and your choices are a medicine that'll have you laughing at funny YouTube videos whereas chemo will have you puking your guts out and losing your hair. The choice is yours.
Cancers Mara has experience with:
- Pancreatic cancer is very responsive, in the sense of longer life, but at this recording they hadn't had any full remissions.
- DIPG (a glioblastoma in the brain stem, where there are no eCBRs) is a 100% failure. It typically shows up in children.
** When there's brain disease there will be an increased expression of eCB2 receptors.
Different cancers will be located by either eCB1 or eCB2 receptors. When you build a regimen you target the receptors nearest to the tumors.
- If targeting something in the CNS, say a glio or bone cancer, use a much higher ratio of THC to CBD.
- If targeting the immune response you choose a balanced ratio, 1:1.
- Where CBD is nice to have when targeting the CNS it's a necessity when treating the immune system, and lymphatic system.
Olive oil to get into the lymph system
- THC is always indicated, even if in small amounts.
Reasons to shift the ratios from standard procedure:
- When the ID-1 gene is involved you begin with higher CBD and lower THC. If a patient can get relief with this formulation, so much the better. If it doesn't work, flip it, but start there.
- With glioblastomas she always starts with higher THC, despite the ID-1 gene involvement, due to the high number of eCB1 receptors in the CNS.
THC is necessary to effectively treat over 70% of the diseases it can be used for.
There is no such thing as a correct dose in cannabinoid therapies. The goal in treating cancer is to get as many cannabinoids into the system as possible and still have the patient comfortable.
- Anyone telling you they know how many cannabinoids will treat a particular disease state is telling you a lie. Every patient responds individually to cannabis. There are no standard doses.
- When treating cancer the goal is to get you to a point where you don't feel the effects as uncomfortable because then you can go about your regular life.
again.... suppositories.
The difference between cannabis and other drugs is pThe ability to reset the tolerance levels with as little as a 72-hour break.
THC and CBD complement each other. There's no reason to use one without the other.
- Aunt Zelda's uses two types of medicines for their patients, one with high THC and the other with high CBD.
- They seperate the doses of major cannabinoids by at least two hours to keep them from competing for the same receptors.
This confuses me. CBD doesn't activate the eCBRs directly, so why seperate them?
- They believe it allows them to keep doses lower.
- All doses have both cannabinoids in them, but one or the other will be dominant.
- They don't use hemp-based CBD. They want some of both major cannabinoids in the meds.
As an example, say a patient is taking 1:1, 50 mg each. The dosing schedule would look something like
- AM: 10-15 mg THC
- A couple hours later: 25 mg CBD
- 6-8 hours later, take the second dose of 25 mg CBD
- bedtime (2-4 hrs after previous dose) take the remaining dose of 35-40 mg THC
It's important when beginning a cannabinoid therapy to take into account all the supplements and other medications you're also taking.
- The majority of pharma drugs are made to be metabolized by the CP450.
- Cannabinoids, and CBD in particular, interfere with the metabolism of these drugs, and they can build up in the system to dangerous levels.
- To avoid this simply don't take them together. Space them out two hours or more apart.
The exception here is opioids, which should always be taken with cannabis, which allow some out to reduce the opioid dose.
- You can also likely reduce the pharma doses.
Every medication you're on should be run through a drug checker program to see if there are any contraindicators.
- If grapefruit is listed as contraindicated on your meds it's a good indicator that it's to be used with caution with cannabinoids, in particular CBD.
Patient instructions for treating cancer:
- Alcohol is metabolized into sugar. Cancer feeds on sugar. Avoid alcohol.
- Sugar is your enemy.
- Limit the use of antioxidants at the same time because of the way chemo drugs are designed to work, and because they'll protect the cancer cells when you're trying to eliminate them. The foods are epacceptable, just not the extracts. Take them at a time when you're not taking cannabis meds
There are certain oral chemo drugs made ineffective when taken at the same time with cannabis.
Research suggests that in many cases the synergy between chemo drugs and cannabis makes them more effective.
- If nothing else the cannabinoids will protect the healthy cells when getting chemo or radiation.
Take the dose 30 minutes before the chemo or radiation.
Aunt Zelda's has their olive oil infusions standardized at 10 mg/ml and 50 mg/ml, simplifying the math and dosing options.
Tinctures are either an alcohol or glycerin, or sugars, neither of which need to be used with a cancer patient.
Olive oil has its own medicinal value, and the lipid cannabinoids will bond to the oil molecules, increasing bioavailability.
Olive oil also holds the highest concentration of cannabinoids, and, being a LCFA will be absorbed into the lymphatic system first, making it an excellent choice for targeting the immune system.
MCT oils are sometimes effective for seizure disorders, but it comes with challenges:
- much shorter shelf life, very reactive to time and temp
- many coconut oils are in reality red palm oil, check the labels carefully
- too much coconut oil at high doses can make some people nauseous; with high dose patients look for other oils, and look more towards olive oil
Mara advises patients to take their meds sublingually for speed of onset and predictability of effect. Going through the gut can be problamatic for many reasons.
- Variables that can effect the oral dose include how tired you are, how hydrated you are, when your last meal was and what levels of fat it contained.
I find it interesting that they haven't had a patient do well with suppositories other than anal or rectal cancer or liver cancer. With liver cancer she has them do both suppositories and sublingual. Now why would those patients respond, but not others? And yet there are clinicians who report otherwise and highly recommend them to their patients because they see results.
In fairness, she does phrase it as "I haven't had a patient do as well with just suppositories."
Terpene choices for cancer treatment
For someone with PTSD pinene and limonene will have a calming effect, whereas others will find them excitable and uplifting.
Mara's goals in establishing a regimen are to have the patient get relief with as enjoyable an experience as possible, titrating up to the OTD.
- The only difference between a terpene and a cannabinoid in many cases is that you'll find terpenes in other plants.
- Myrcene increases the bioavailability as well as having other medicinal benefits.
- Linalool
- Limonene is very uplifting for a daytime med.
- Borneol, found in cinnamon, is a blood thinner. Be alert if you're on blood thinners already.
Look for the purples
- more broad leaf
- tend to contain more Myrcene and linalool
- High levels of b-caryophyllene are a staple in their canna meds. Among its many benefits it activates the CB2 receptors. In many cases it's the top-listed terpene in Aunt Zelda's meds.
"If you're smelling it you're losing it." Be cautious about your processing. Terpenes are whispy things and float away at the slightest provocation. B-Caryophyllene is a sturdy terpene and will more easily withstand the abuses of production.
- It's a good anti-inflammatory, working in much the same way CBD does.
How do you justify using cannabis to treat cancer when there isn't enough research?
- In the worst case, you'll weather the effects of traditional treatments better with cannabis along.
- In the best case you'll kill the cancer.
- You won't OD and die from cannabis. Your worst case with cannabis is you'll feel terrible for a few hours if you take too much THC.
- We'd love to have more research. Take cannabis off the schedule and let it happen.
- There are over 10,000 research studies on cannabis and cannabinoids.
- Cannabis is the most widely used drug in the world. No one yet has died from using it. Ever.
Cannabis can make atrial fibrillation more uncomfortable.
Many cancer drugs are made to work on proliferating cells. This is why you lose your hair. It's also proliferating. You stomach is proliferating during the process of digestion so you get nausea and vomiting.
- Using cannabis with chemo protects the healthy cells from the deadly side effects. You'll have less nausea, vomiting and hair loss when you include cannabis in the protocol.
Conversations with your doctor
- Your doctor works for you.
- You're exercising your right to treat your body with something that has no harmful effects to discount its inclusion in the regimen.
- Explain that you've decided to use cannabis in your regimen to heal your body.
- You have to be willing to change doctors.
- Understand and be sympathetic to the reality that you may know more about the ECS than your doctor.
How long do we get to play this f'n game where we let the doctors off the hook for not bothering to learn about the primary system in the body????
Offer to share information, but let them know you're making your choice and expect them to go along with it as they monitor your traditional care.
Considerations in choosing a medicine:
-Garbage in, garbage out. Don't use medicine made with poisons. You'll not get all of it purged, and someone with a stressed immune system doesn't need this extra challenge to overcome.
- Ethanol solvent is much safer than some of the others.
- If the company can't show you a lab report, walk away from their product.
- Look for testing at flower level as well as extraction level to compare the integrity of the extraction process.
- If they're bumping up the terpenes make sure they're plant-based, organic ones, and not synthetic.
Butane is a selective extractor, leaving behind components other solvents will pick up. You don't get a true full-plant extraction. The extraction has to be run through ethanol and winterized to pull the waxes out.
Waxes block the uptake of the cannabinoids.
WooHoo! I've been waiting to learn this. This is why we winterize, to get rid of the waxes because they block the uptake of the cannabinoids.
I love what I do. 
Ahhhh...... finally got this one done. I think it took me so long because I was a little lost when Cajun died and I was afraid it'd be too painful. I still can't read the last chapter of Radical Remission for the same reason. It sits there taunting me. Lol!
I'm glad I got this part done. Now, on to her website to see what information I might glean from there before the thread gets put together.
12:45, too late for a few hits?
I think not.
55 - instructions on production. I like these instructions too. 
Got it!!
