Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Systems

Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

I agree. However, basically all seeds today have been bred to fulfil indoor conditions. There has been decades of genetical modifications so that theses new varieties could become real bombs in controlled conditions under 600 HPS because mostly of law restrictions for cannabis. So the market has been moved in that direction for about 30/40 years. Somebody out there claims that these types of seeds could perform better in indoor conditions vs outdoor and what we should do is a re-codification of the same genetics but for outdoor conditions. Not too sure about that...

Fully agree on this point. If I will ever grow outdoor one day -- hopefully I will -- I would do it in controlled conditions, i.e. 8 or 10 gals pots in the middle of an open space within a forest or something like that, despite the logistical nightmare and the big effort this could imply. Fertilising the soil from top may not be the same thing as preparing a good soil. Ideally in my opinion the ideal situation would be finding a suitable spot, taking the first 1 to 2 meters of soil, mix it with all the good ingredients you have based on your soil analysis, put the earth back to place with a plastic lining with some little holes at the bottom to avoid any major nutrient loss (more controlled condition and to allow some air exchange) and plant your clones... however, that could become very expensive... but people do that already in Cali, correct?

A lot of hybrids are produced indoor nowadays, but not all of them. Definitely outdoor bred strains will work outdoor better than something that's been bred indoor, especially for more than two generations. That's why real outdoor growers naturalize many commercial strains by crossing them to already existing ones that have been cultivated with success in their backyards. The same applies to outdoor strains imported from different latitudes and climates, they have to be inbred or cross to local strains to improve production, flowering time and mold immunity. And that's what I'm doing with Ultra Dog.

As far as preparing the soil outdoor is concerned you never do such a thing? Did you ever grow any non 420 crop outdoor? I guess not. But that's all right, it's a learning process like everything else. No sane gardener would dig up their soil that deep. Actually the more you till the more you destroy microbes in it, and the objective is to preserve it, so cannabis planted can use already developed microsystem. This is what's important in LOS gardening, keeping the soil as intact as it's possible, building it over the years, correcting if it's totally out of whack. That's it, man. You do not destroy the only free resource you have,especially that cannabis will grow in almost any type of soil :Hookah:
 
Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

Yeah. I was wondering about the 1-2 meters of soil. Are you talking about amending 1-2 meters deep Organic Weed? If so there is no need to go more than 18" (45-46cm) deep, 24" (60cm) MAX if you have to till. Go wider if you want to amend more. As Conradino said, there are microbes, actually layers of different species. When you till you completely destroy the balance nature created. If you must till, amend so you don't have to till again for years, or maybe never again.

I HAVE to till. Actually, I have to remove everything out of my holes and completely replace it. I am on some of the oldest land in the world. Very weathered, only 2 inches of deciduous forest leaf litter humus (in the forest) then it's red clay and fractured limestone. Honestly I don't know how or why I have a decent lawn, it shouldn't be growing. Anyhow, I am making a soil mix that should carry my plants for years to come with some lite top dressing and occasional AACT's and teas. My holes are roughly 60 gallon equivalent about 32"Wx18"D.

For 2 meters deep you'd need an excavator. If you have equipment like that, some of the best gorilla type grows I've seen were plants grown on old buried slash piles. A logging company would come in, clear an area and leave all the slash. The owner dozed it all into buried piles. A few years later he planted on them and did nothing else. HOLY FREAKING TREES!
 
Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

As I was saying, I never grew anything outdoor and I hope one day I'll be able to do that... but before going HIGH BRIX I was following the supersoil growers and Subcool has been growing in large pots outdoors in supersoils as well as indoor. I have also seen videos of growers in Cali where you could clearly see that there had been some digging and I assumed it was deeper that 60 cm because I assume the root systems of MJ mature plants could go 2 or 3 meters deep or maybe even more given that MJ has a vertical and not horizontal system... but again, I've never grown anything outdoor so I don't know much really...

So if you don't dig that deep, for outdoor how can you reach HIGH BRIX when you need to have very specific concentration and relation of P:K:Ca:Mg:N? Yo just need to go through multiple cycles, it takes years if you'r not doing it in controlled conditions
 
Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

As I was saying, I never grew anything outdoor and I hope one day I'll be able to do that... but before going HIGH BRIX I was following the supersoil growers and Subcool has been growing in large pots outdoors in supersoils as well as indoor. I have also seen videos of growers in Cali where you could clearly see that there had been some digging and I assumed it was deeper that 60 cm because I assume the root systems of MJ mature plants could go 2 or 3 meters deep or maybe even more given that MJ has a vertical and not horizontal system... but again, I've never grown anything outdoor so I don't know much really...

So if you don't dig that deep, for outdoor how can you reach HIGH BRIX when you need to have very specific concentration and relation of P:K:Ca:Mg:N? Yo just need to go through multiple cycles, it takes years if you'r not doing it in controlled conditions

Yeah I know I saw it done. They were digging ditches more than one metre deep, and filling them with store bought mixes. WTF? Now I'm laughing when I think about it :cheesygrinsmiley: And then they install drips connected to pumps with filters that carry nutes mixed in containers, well sometimes pure water... every day. I wouldn't try that pot even if they offered it for free. But that just shows quick sighted this industry became, how money orientated, and how little sustainable or long term thinking actually there is inside.

I arrived with High Brix soil just now as my tests confirm it. If you have good living soil, correcting it a little doesn't really take that much work. The worst case is when you have very little life going in there or if you completely screwed it up by applying tons of fertilizers every year. Once again, it's weed and it will grow everywhere if supported by beneficial fungi and bacteria. It will actually perform much better with very little fertilization :Namaste:
 
Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

As far as indoor vs. outdoor is concerned this debate will drag on :smokin2: I'm not really against indoor as I think excellency can be achieved everywhere but I prefer outdoor high produced by the full spectrum of sun, wind and natural soil. These days you're gonna have some strains of ridiculous potency like Guerilla Glue #4 or Quantum Kush which get tested at 30% THC or other hoarded clones. Seeds are less predictable cause THC roof varies via genetic profile or pheno expression. Still, even with clones you need these perfect conditions to squeeze out the maximum value, and I'm not talking about potency only. You need great soil, excelent light source, optimal RH and so on. On 420 there are High Brix growers who arrived at buds that were 28,5% THC (they tested them) with strains that are usually quoted around 20-22%, so yeah good soil makes a huge difference. Then properly outdoor grown cannabis will not be less potent, it will be the same, and sometimes it will be more potent, but it will be definitely different. I think some folks who follow this journal and grow both indoor and outdoor could agree. Another thing, mistake that outdoor growers in California are making now is that they still focus on quantity while prices of their pot tumbles down more and more with every year. Yeah I've been following this market. If they started learning and invested more in the process, in testing their soil, in upping their game, in analyzing the results, in checking the possibilities of force-flowered crops, they would be way ahead of indoor growing. I'm not saying there are no growers like that in Cali but they're still a minority. So there's still a lot to do outdoor, and possibilities are endless!!!

As far as the best spot to grow weed they are actually never lowlands as the best buds were always grown in the mountains close to equator. Colombian Gold, Nepalese Highland, Highland Thai, they are all high altitude buds.

:Namaste:

Hey con. Light dep. outdoor herb has exploded in Cali over the past few yrs. facilitating an extra crop. Demand for Cali herb remains high so commercial folks pump quantity to sustain livelihood. Multitude of skilled experienced large scale farmers who often have personal grows. Now that is often some ultra high grade!

Yeah. I was wondering about the 1-2 meters of soil. Are you talking about amending 1-2 meters deep Organic Weed? If so there is no need to go more than 18" (45-46cm) deep, 24" (60cm) MAX if you have to till. Go wider if you want to amend more. As Conradino said, there are microbes, actually layers of different species. When you till you completely destroy the balance nature created. If you must till, amend so you don't have to till again for years, or maybe never again.

I HAVE to till. Actually, I have to remove everything out of my holes and completely replace it. I am on some of the oldest land in the world. Very weathered, only 2 inches of deciduous forest leaf litter humus (in the forest) then it's red clay and fractured limestone. Honestly I don't know how or why I have a decent lawn, it shouldn't be growing. Anyhow, I am making a soil mix that should carry my plants for years to come with some lite top dressing and occasional AACT's and teas. My holes are roughly 60 gallon equivalent about 32"Wx18"D.

For 2 meters deep you'd need an excavator. If you have equipment like that, some of the best gorilla type grows I've seen were plants grown on old buried slash piles. A logging company would come in, clear an area and leave all the slash. The owner dozed it all into buried piles. A few years later he planted on them and did nothing else. HOLY FREAKING TREES!

Hello Heirloom. Tractor loader/backhoes often employed. Know a Santa Cruz Mtn. grower who supplements income by annually doing the digging for many other growers. Another school plants "above ground" on mounds. Big mounds that produce "apple tree" style big girls. Some go so far as to use pyramid style mounds hoping to tap into pyramid powers.:Namaste:
 
Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

Hey con. Light dep. outdoor herb has exploded in Cali over the past few yrs. facilitating an extra crop. Demand for Cali herb remains high so commercial folks pump quantity to sustain livelihood. Multitude of skilled experienced large scale farmers who often have personal grows. Now that is often some ultra high grade!

I mean I totally get it, bright. I wouldn't cross a grower trying to make one's living cause that's sth I definitely don't believe in. I just don't think it's the way to go for me or for the scene. Anyway, I'd smoke one of them private NorCal buds :tokin:
 
Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

I mean I totally get it, bright. I wouldn't cross a grower trying to make one's living cause that's sth I definitely don't believe in. I just don't think it's the way to go for me or for the scene. Anyway, I'd smoke one of them private NorCal buds :tokin:

Agree w/ you con. Chasing the $ & competition has some high talent growers cutting corners & doing stuff to speed grows to finish. Grower skills are at an all time high but commercial pressures don't allow it to be fully displayed. I have zero interest in any commercial or club weed. But I'd love to try some of the stuff I see here grown by skilled dedicated hobbyists. Got a chance not long ago to try some Chernobyl & Skunk Haze from a couple of locals from their private grows that was awesome. Legalization won't help the quality. Ex Lt. Gov. who now heads CA legalization group recently said "....we need to regulate cannabis strength when it's legalized." Shut up! Heresy! Sorry for the mini-rant. That's why I stay clear of all the pot politics...heavy duty bs. :Namaste:
 
Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

Yeah. I was wondering about the 1-2 meters of soil. Are you talking about amending 1-2 meters deep Organic Weed? If so there is no need to go more than 18" (45-46cm) deep, 24" (60cm) MAX if you have to till. Go wider if you want to amend more. As Conradino said, there are microbes, actually layers of different species. When you till you completely destroy the balance nature created. If you must till, amend so you don't have to till again for years, or maybe never again.

I HAVE to till. Actually, I have to remove everything out of my holes and completely replace it. I am on some of the oldest land in the world. Very weathered, only 2 inches of deciduous forest leaf litter humus (in the forest) then it's red clay and fractured limestone. Honestly I don't know how or why I have a decent lawn, it shouldn't be growing. Anyhow, I am making a soil mix that should carry my plants for years to come with some lite top dressing and occasional AACT's and teas. My holes are roughly 60 gallon equivalent about 32"Wx18"D.

For 2 meters deep you'd need an excavator. If you have equipment like that, some of the best gorilla type grows I've seen were plants grown on old buried slash piles. A logging company would come in, clear an area and leave all the slash. The owner dozed it all into buried piles. A few years later he planted on them and did nothing else. HOLY FREAKING TREES!

I read this and thought "hugekultur!" COorgancs was trying to figure out how to build one in his grow room before he left. What you describe here is very comparable. If you could build one in a yard and plant cannabis into it.....
 
Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

Everyone has to make a living one way or another.
 
Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

I read this and thought "hugekultur!" COorgancs was trying to figure out how to build one in his grow room before he left. What you describe here is very comparable. If you could build one in a yard and plant cannabis into it.....

It is pretty darn close to hugelkultur. After a logging there aren't any large dia. logs for the base, nor was it mounded. But darn similar. I talked to him yesterday and he's doing it this year again. He made the pit area and filled it last year in the fall with slash and forest humus/topsoil/roots/stumps from dirt road building (this is on a nearly 1000 acre parcel). This year he mounded up more slash around it, like a stadium of impossible to cross brushy mess. Put out 300 seeds in 'the field'. AK-47 is rocking and rolling in it. One of the keys to this methods super success is the CO2 released from the soil during the decomp process.

Doing it indoor would be interesting. Like any good soil it all about the aging and establishment (and preservation) of the different microbes in their different layers/rolls. I think a green house is about as far indoor as I would try to take it.

Oh, and on a side note I got free AK seeds :high-five:
 
Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

howabout raised beds.

seems alot easier than mucking about with tractors.
 
Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

The decision between raised beds, mounds or digging into the earth comes down to grow size, site access, security and the amount of labor you can provide. Everybody does what works for them.

:thumb:
 
Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

Indoor over outdoor???????? I'm partial to outdoor myself. It's just nice to live in a area that makes it possible to finish a 10 week plant before winter rains rott it away from ya. I understand, maybe more than most there are plants that finish faster for those with shorter seasons, but most of those plants that rate 25+% thc do take more than 8-9 weeks, which rules them out here. Least for people not doing a light deprive thing. Really limits a lot of growers anyways. But like said,,,, is a way period if one wants to put out the little extra required. But outdoor grown properly can equal indoors except in the yield department. Indoors don't stand a chance. Besides I don't really think one can tell the difference between 25% and 22% except with a test.......... Keepem Green
 
Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

I second that, NCW! Yield is one of these things that definitely favours outdoor. I also agree that after you cross this 22-24% THC it's really hard to tell a difference in potency between one bud and another. Also I don't think it's all about the potency, there are just middling buds that will get you high like none high potency Kush will. After few tokes it really doesn't make a difference to me, but I'll always go for the bud that makes me feel better in the end :blunt:
 
Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

Casting my vote for outdoor! Can't say enough good things about indoor but harvesting a good outdoor plant is extra rewarding...it goes through more to get to finish...greater threats from climate, bugs, human intruders. Indoor is so potent can't complain at all but outdoor high often seems more "complex"....hard to exactly describe.:Namaste:
 
Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

:tokin:
 
Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

Hi there conradino,

I just recently finished reading your Italian Outdoor Adventures journal. I have to say it seemed to be an amazing grow! Thank you for sharing that journal with everyone; it was a pleasure to read and I learned a lot.

I live in Oregon, USA and have very similar weather to yours. There is not much info to find about outdoor growing and what to expect exactly. Sativas seem strange to grow this far north and nobody really talks about growing them outdoors... Maybe it's because of all the variables? I am a new grower and have always looked forward to growing some of the strains that you did. Do you think you would have any advice on growing the Malawi Gold? Do you know about how tall it grew? I know it is very late in the season but I got ahead of myself and just recently planted one to be grown indoors.

Have you ever heard of the strain Dr. Grinspoon? I think you would like it.

Respectfully,

lazyfish
 
Re: Still Growing - SoCal Hybrids & Mexican & Colombian Sativas Under Sun Natural Sys

Malawi Gold as any pure sativa can get very big if planted early and has a lot of sun and enough water. Mine got to 6 feet I think but it was planted late in a spot with little sun. Malawi Gold has medium to high mold resistance, so you won't find a lot of bud rot there even in humid climate. Mine was ready by 2nd week of October so really quickly, and it's some potent smoke I can tell you. Up to 45N you shouldn't have any problems with this strain. The reason why they don't grow them outdoor in US is that they yield little cause buds carry little weight, and then growers believe that they never finish or go hermie which is not true! My motto, fuck what others say, learn from your own experience! You wanna grow something, just do it!
 
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