Stanks Go Perpetual In 2018!

Van Stank said:
Hmmmm....not sure I would take that approach on selecting a male. Seems a bit short sighted to dismiss where 50% of your genetics comes from.

I think its much more difficult to figure out what you are looking for in the male.

Our plan, is to seek a couple different potential male plants and cross them individually with the prospective mothers and then take out 20 or so seeds from each pairing and grow them out. The results will show you what sort of genetics the male is bringing to the table and how they come together with the female side of the genetics. Always tough to determine what sort of Dominant and recessive genes males bring to the table.
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I agree with you there and like your plan. Dont see how people can call themselves breeders if they dont grow out the crosses they make first... How do you know what youre going to get? Could be one in a million and get unexpected recessive genes out of the mom and dad..

your NL has my heart over the blue dream... Something about it is calling to me ahaha
:circle-of-love:
 
From what I saw from Ethos and his thoughts on his R1 crosses was that he feels he can stabilize a strain faster by using a reversed female to be the pollen donor. When he does this he is not using clones of the same mother to do it. He finds two female plants from seed that are very similar/as close to identical as possible. By doing this he does not have some of the issues you can run into when you self a plant and pollinate a direct clone sister. He likes to do this instead of run males due to something you already touched on Stank and that is the fact that it is hard to guess what a male is going to contribute to a cross until it is grown out. From what he was saying the R1 method of making seeds is a lot more predictable and as mentioned takes a lot less time to bring a strain to stability. And since he is using two plants that are not exact copies he is allowing for a better genetic pairing than he would get just selfing a plant.

Now onto the JH Auto. Most of the autos I grew were grown under a 600 watt HPS. They all seemed to like the light well enough and I had my best run the first time I grew them (go figure) The first round I yielded about a quarter pound off each on average. After that I could never top an ounce and a half out of them lol. When it comes to light though you could be onto something. The ruderalis variety originated in serbia or Russia. The reason they autoflower is due to the very poor light they receive. So Maybe a lot of light really pisses off the ruderalis genetics in the cross.
 
TheGreenYeti said:
From what I saw from Ethos and his thoughts on his R1 crosses was that he feels he can stabilize a strain faster by using a reversed female to be the pollen donor. When he does this he is not using clones of the same mother to do it. He finds two female plants from seed that are very similar/as close to identical as possible. By doing this he does not have some of the issues you can run into when you self a plant and pollinate a direct clone sister. He likes to do this instead of run males due to something you already touched on Stank and that is the fact that it is hard to guess what a male is going to contribute to a cross until it is grown out. From what he was saying the R1 method of making seeds is a lot more predictable and as mentioned takes a lot less time to bring a strain to stability. And since he is using two plants that are not exact copies he is allowing for a better genetic pairing than he would get just selfing a plant.

Now onto the JH Auto. Most of the autos I grew were grown under a 600 watt HPS. They all seemed to like the light well enough and I had my best run the first time I grew them (go figure) The first round I yielded about a quarter pound off each on average. After that I could never top an ounce and a half out of them lol. When it comes to light though you could be onto something. The ruderalis variety originated in serbia or Russia. The reason they autoflower is due to the very poor light they receive. So Maybe a lot of light really pisses off the ruderalis genetics in the cross.
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I have read other's choosing that method as well and I can't say I fault the logic of it.....but there is a big but to it. He is basing the choice of mother's off only what he see's. That leaves a massive issue of recessive genes being unknown until he is grows out the resulting offspring to see what sort of surprises arise. Even the same recessive genes of both mothers will produce unexpected results.

So to me....he would still need to grow the resulting offspring out.....much the same way you do with a father. Not saying there is anything wrong with it and they could very well be on to something, time will tell....and that doesn't mean I won't try it. Hell I think there is great potential when its played with more and I already have wheels turning in my head with it. But I also like to play devil's advocate. I think nature works best when things are done naturally. I am not convinced that there aren't degradation issues down the genetic lines the same way people talk of potentially existing from making feminized seeds from feminized offspring (i.e. S4s, S5s, S6s).

Like anything else, always more than one way to skin a cat. I just think the natural way when done properly will result in the strongest genetics. I am not sure I want to sacrifice strongest genetics for some time savings. Again all thoughts in my mind, nothing proven. I am a big fan of continuous improvement and experimentation so I will likely try my hand at it.
 
Van Stank said:
Having said that.....is it even possible for a plant to have too much light? Do autos not like light the same way photos do?
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Most autos prefer 20/4, while some people actually run them 24/7...I prefer the 4 hours darkness for root growth (and rest).
Van Stank said:
Man, she is just one fickle plant. If anyone out there reading this has any experiences similar, please post. I just want to make her happy AND have a killer yield.
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"Fickle" is kind...some of us from the JHA Tribute grow might say "cursed"...yours, by far, grew larger than the rest (by a huge margin) yet the buds still aren't on par with what other autos, under similar conditions, will deliver. The NLxBB I grew over Christmas (below) was harvested at 10.5 weeks and had heavy, well developed buds. Another one is right on track to do the same...the JH probably isn't the ideal first auto run to form an opinion...I have a bunch of autos coming from @SeedsMan and if any of them are equal or better than the NLxBB than I will def let you know.

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NLxBig Bud Auto Harvest week 10.5

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NLxBig Bud Auto Harvest week 10.5
 
I know Exotic Genetics reversed a Peyote Purple female then used the Male Cube to pollinate one of the Peyote offspring to make Spirit in the Sky. It was an experiment to test the S1’s stability, it passed with flying colors.
 
Pjs420 said:
I agree with you there and like your plan. Dont see how people can call themselves breeders if they dont grow out the crosses they make first... How do you know what youre going to get? Could be one in a million and get unexpected recessive genes out of the mom and dad..

your NL has my heart over the blue dream... Something about it is calling to me ahaha
:circle-of-love:
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Well I have had a serious crush on the Blue Dream strain long before I ever dropped her seed. I think Blue Dream was the main strain I kept reading different people rant and rave about when I decided to start growing. And it seemed like more people I talked to that smoked, more and more people loved it....so I kind of started to build the excitement up in it.

Then I started growing this girl and early on she was perfect (until I kept her in her 1 gallon pot too long) and was giving me amazing smells even in early veg. On top of that a buddy of mine brought over a sample nug of some Blue Dream he got and I loved it. I don't normally smoke socially so its rare to enjoy smoking with another person and I really enjoyed the feeling of the Blue Dream. So the crushing I have on her is strong and deep and hopefully well founded (guess we will find out in 10-12 weeks).

That doesn't mean I am not crushing on that Northern Lights almost as much. I love what i have done with her shape and the little bit of training I have done with her. Depending on how she continues to grow, and how she smokes....she could take over the top spot!
 
Pennywise said:
I know Exotic Genetics reversed a Peyote Purple female then used the Male Cube to pollinate one of the Peyote offspring to make Spirit in the Sky. It was an experiment to test the S1’s stability, it passed with flying colors.
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Reports of genetic drop I have read about tends to occur much further down the line.....generally S5s or later....and thats from the same line with no genetic input from anywhere else. Again, all of this off input from others and nothing that I can say has been tested....but things I want to consider.
 
Blew Hiller said:
Most autos prefer 20/4, while some people actually run them 24/7...I prefer the 4 hours darkness for root growth (and rest).


"Fickle" is kind...some of us from the JHA Tribute grow might say "cursed"...yours, by far, grew larger than the rest (by a huge margin) yet the buds still aren't on par with what other autos, under similar conditions, will deliver. The NLxBB I grew over Christmas (below) was harvested at 10.5 weeks and had heavy, well developed buds. Another one is right on track to do the same...the JH probably isn't the ideal first auto run to form an opinion...I have a bunch of autos coming from @SeedsMan and if any of them are equal or better than the NLxBB than I will def let you know.
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Yeah its definitely fickle LOL. And I had confirmation from Ms Stank when she got home......the Jack looks much happier under the lower light. Only damn cannabis plant I have ever had look sad in great light.

I think the next Auto I run will be either Dark Devil or Skywalker Kush. I prefer having some degree of control over my plants and garden, so photos will be my main go to for sure.....but this Jack has given me a high enough opinion of Autos to grow the occasional one out and see what comes of it. I might even try an outdoor guerrilla grow with an auto or two this summer (assuming summer ever arrives....it was snowing here this morning)
 
I think most who breed inbred lines past S4-S5 or F4-F5 run dual lines all being siblings then crossing a female from the first line with a male from the 2nd line. Creating new S1 or F1’s
 
That would definitely make sense to do that.
 
Van Stank said:
I have read other's choosing that method as well and I can't say I fault the logic of it.....but there is a big but to it. He is basing the choice of mother's off only what he see's. That leaves a massive issue of recessive genes being unknown until he is grows out the resulting offspring to see what sort of surprises arise. Even the same recessive genes of both mothers will produce unexpected results.

So to me....he would still need to grow the resulting offspring out.....much the same way you do with a father. Not saying there is anything wrong with it and they could very well be on to something, time will tell....and that doesn't mean I won't try it. Hell I think there is great potential when its played with more and I already have wheels turning in my head with it. But I also like to play devil's advocate. I think nature works best when things are done naturally. I am not convinced that there aren't degradation issues down the genetic lines the same way people talk of potentially existing from making feminized seeds from feminized offspring (i.e. S4s, S5s, S6s).

Like anything else, always more than one way to skin a cat. I just think the natural way when done properly will result in the strongest genetics. I am not sure I want to sacrifice strongest genetics for some time savings. Again all thoughts in my mind, nothing proven. I am a big fan of continuous improvement and experimentation so I will likely try my hand at it.
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Testing is a must no matter the breeding method. I have not seen him go beyond R1s but I have not looked at his work all that often. I have seen a few ppl on here grow out his gear though and love it. I would think in order for this method to work best one would need to have a good knowledge base of the parents before they start the breeding. I would think that natural breeding would be best as well I am just reiterating what I had read. His thoughts on the subject seem sound to me and it sounds like a better method for making fems than making S1s. S1s obviously have their own place, especially when it comes to making seeds of clone only varieties.
 
Van Stank said:
I would probably lay it outside on the work table and let it dry in the sun. Not sure I want that smell in the house. We could also possibly dry it in the smoker over very very low heat
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All the wrong stank in the house :rofl::rofl:
 
Pennywise said:
I think most who breed inbred lines past S4-S5 or F4-F5 run dual lines all being siblings then crossing a female from the first line with a male from the 2nd line. Creating new S1 or F1’s
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Sounds like a puzzle and sadly I’ve been following simple but when read and semi make sense of s1 I get to cross it becomes s2 so what does s3 stand for? it was Crossed with two other strains? Can you cross an s1 with an f2?
 
TheGreenYeti said:
Testing is a must no matter the breeding method. I have not seen him go beyond R1s but I have not looked at his work all that often. I have seen a few ppl on here grow out his gear though and love it. I would think in order for this method to work best one would need to have a good knowledge base of the parents before they start the breeding. I would think that natural breeding would be best as well I am just reiterating what I had read. His thoughts on the subject seem sound to me and it sounds like a better method for making fems than making S1s. S1s obviously have their own place, especially when it comes to making seeds of clone only varieties.
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Knowing the parents only goes so far. It certainly helps...especially if you know everything else they might have produced (could show you the various recessive genes you don't see specifically in the parents). But again parents only show a few of the possible genetic outcomes.

I definitely think I am going to explore it. I think I might do a little something with some of the Blue Dream pollen when I make feminized seeds.
 
Kingjoe83 said:
Sounds like a puzzle and sadly I’ve been following simple but when read and semi make sense of s1 I get to cross it becomes s2 so what does s3 stand for? it was Crossed with two other strains? Can you cross an s1 with an f2?
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Ok....so the "S" stands for 'Self' and the number indicates the generation. So lets use this example Joe....I make some S1s from my Blue Dream and send them to you. You grow one out and you love it and decide to make some feminized seeds. You spray it with STS and she sprouts balls and BAM, KJ just made some "S2s". Now you give some of them to Guy Cavellero cause you think he might like some and he grows it out and loves it. Guess who now wants to make Fems from that Blue Dream to keep around for a while.....yup, and me makes him some "S3s". Each time someone else makes an S from that same lot, it will add another higher number.

Supposedly from a few things I have read, after about S5s and S6s, you can start to see issues with the stability of the genetics (according to some).

Now as far as what you can cross with an S1, well you can cross just about anything. Keep in mind you will generally need it to be a male that you cross it with, but it really doesn't matter what "F" you cross it with. It will all work of both parents are strong.
 
Van Stank said:
Ok....so the "S" stands for 'Self' and the number indicates the generation. So lets use this example Joe....I make some S1s from my Blue Dream and send them to you. You grow one out and you love it and decide to make some feminized seeds. You spray it with STS and she sprouts balls and BAM, KJ just made some "S2s". Now you give some of them to Guy Cavellero cause you think he might like some and he grows it out and loves it. Guess who now wants to make Fems from that Blue Dream to keep around for a while.....yup, and me makes him some "S3s". Each time someone else makes an S from that same lot, it will add another higher number.

Supposedly from a few things I have read, after about S5s and S6s, you can start to see issues with the stability of the genetics (according to some).

Now as far as what you can cross with an S1, well you can cross just about anything. Keep in mind you will generally need it to be a male that you cross it with, but it really doesn't matter what "F" you cross it with. It will all work of both parents are strong.
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Thanks for explaining that Van. I was a bit confused by some of this talk and someday would like to get into some breeding.
 
Derbybud said:
Thanks for explaining that Van. I was a bit confused by some of this talk and someday would like to get into some breeding.
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No problem Derby. It was confusing when Ms Stank and I sat down to read up on a lot of that stuff a while back. If you or anyone else has any questions, please ask. If I don't know the answer, it will force me to learn more.....which I love to do. Its really fascinating stuff.
 
Van Stank said:
No problem Derby. It was confusing when Ms Stank and I sat down to read up on a lot of that stuff a while back. If you or anyone else has any questions, please ask. If I don't know the answer, it will force me to learn more.....which I love to do. Its really fascinating stuff.
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I do need to start reading more on that now that I have more confidence growing. I'm thinking that's the next step for me.
 
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