Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

[sqwheels]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

Hi Vape...

Glad to hear it my friend...take care of yourself.

Back around the mid of sept, bid and X helped me figure it out...weird silvery stuff on the leaves of bw. I had to get a magnifying glass out to see them...OMG! I don't think I had a very bad case, and I found them early...yes, I used SNS203 as a spray and drench. Wiped them out in 3 treatments, unfortunately I drenched too much and didn't give enough nutes in between...so the girls suffered pretty good because of it. Dumb mistake...Grow and learn I guess. Anyway I'm about 2 weeks behind my planned schedule and the girls got a bit bigger than I wanted...but I'll work with it. Flowering now and I'm so happy about it, they look much better and I can already see little hairs on all of them. I credit this quick flip to 24+ hrs of dark just prior to flip and GLR in veg.

To this point I have only potted up in size when a plant gets too big. I think I'll try a root prune on the little WW in the veg room..I'm sure she is gonna out grow her space before I'm ready to flower her. She's already a decent size and could probably flower soon, but I want to wait until I harvest the ones I just flipped. I've got too many plants for my space right now.

Hmmm...what does one do?

I didn't think it thru very well. I got some new seeds and just had to plant some and then I just had to clone them...on and on... I guess I didn't really expect things to grow as well as they do. I always do extra in case it dies, but to this point, everything I've planted from seed to clone has lived and grown. I'm not complaining by any means, but I should stop doing extra...I don't have any more space.

Take care buddy...feel better.

Sq

 

[sqwheels]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

Hi Folks

Early update, I need some input...I have a dilemma I’ve been wrestling with for a couple days and I need to get some help from those of you more experienced than I.

Quick re-cap… I discovered thrips 9-12, just about the time I went from cfl’s to the 400w MH. My plan was to veg under 400w for a couple weeks, then flip to12/12 around Oct 1^st, but I spent that entire time treating for bugs

To get rid of the thrips, I used SNS203 as a drench and spray. Within a 16 day time span I drenched them 3 times, sprayed them 4. The first two times at a rate of 2oz /gal for both drench and spray…the last treatment was at the rate of 4oz/gal. Unfortunately while treatingI think I neglected to feed them enough, I was able to slip in 1 feed and 1 watering. I was trying to treat within their life cycle so I could get both leaf eaters and larvae, before any flyers showed up. No bugs since Oct 1^st

Since returning to regular my feeding schedule*also Oct 1^st, the out/waste #’s have been high. Both ppm’s and pH. ppm’s in the range of 1500-1700 over 3 ec , and the pH has been hovering right around 6.5 – 7.0. I have no doubt I can drop the ppm’s with a good flush…but it has been my experience when the ppm’s go down the pH goes up.

Here’s my dilemma, I think the girls are still showing signs of NPK def… Do I really want to flush, thus lowering the ppm’s/ec and raising the pH, possibly even higher than it is now? If I flush I’m afraid I’ll make the problem worse.

* in veg using base water of ro/tap = 90ppm + BPN 3 part Elite at 10M, 7.5GB = 920’sppm, 5.9pH
I flipped the lights to 12/12 after 30hrs of dark on 10-7 and they got their first “flower” dose.
* in flower same base water + 10MG, 15B, 4LB = 1200, 5.9pH
* plain water is the same base + 3 drops (>.5m) of pH down to get it to 5.8

I use a feed/feed/water/repeat schedule, trying not to get salts buildup and the waste ppm’s are nearly cut in half when giving plain water. Prior to thrips, waste #’s were running 100 over the feed # and the pH was 6.1-6.3, with plain water they were ½ the ppms and the pH would rise .3 or so over the feed #’s (I hope that makes sense)

Because they are in different sized pots, they dry out at different rates…Aurora Indica is every other day, NLxBB and BW skip two days and WW skips three. Man I’ve really messed this grow up. I didn’t plan very well at all.

Just for reference…this is the chart I have been using to tell me ideal pH for each nute... I'm using the hydro part of this (lower section)

These pics are the most recent of each girl in flower…their canopy’s looks good, and the flower sites are coming in nicely after only a week. All the leaves pulled came from the lower branches

Wonder Woman looks most like N def

Northern Lights x Big Bud looks like P&K def

Blue Widow looks mostly like K def

And now Aurora Indica has some lower leaves yellowing, showing signs of def. This plant didn’t get moved into the big room (400w) until 9-30 moved for space reasons in the little room.

In the past a flush requires about 2 extra days to dry out before they need another watering. That’s a long time to wait if they actually are needing more nutes.

edit: after re-reading this and looking at the pics, it's important to note, I don't see any signs of too much nutes...I don't see any "burn"

I’m sorry this has turned out to be so long and drawn out I just can’t decide what route I should take at this point…they will all need watering tomorrow, and I don’t want to make things worse.

I’d appreciate some input from my fellow growers…



Sq

 

[OG13]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

So you are feeding at 920 ppm and getting waste at 1500? How much "waste" is there when you water/feed, percentage wise? The plants new growth looks great to me in your pics. Old growth is that, old. Don't worry about how it looks. I would feed them at 920 again and see what happens, but maybe let a little more drain thru to help flush out any buildup. Sometimes a diluted feed will actually be a better flush than just water. Salts are attracted to salts. If you are concerned about buildup, then don't flush with water, just use a diluted feed....take your normal feed and cut it with water and verify the pH is where you want it still.

 

[Xlr8]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

So you are feeding at 920 ppm and getting waste at 1500? How much "waste" is there when you water/feed, percentage wise? The plants new growth looks great to me in your pics. Old growth is that, old. Don't worry about how it looks. I would feed them at 920 again and see what happens, but maybe let a little more drain thru to help flush out any buildup. Sometimes a diluted feed will actually be a better flush than just water. Salts are attracted to salts. If you are concerned about buildup, then don't flush with water, just use a diluted feed....take your normal feed and cut it with water and verify the pH is where you want it still.

Like, Like, Like... I agree completely on all of it. Good advice OG (as always!)

Your high run-off is also telling you that starving them isn't the problem at the moment. Go ahead and do a 1/4 or 1/2 strength feeding next time. They'll love it and you won't hurt them at all. I also agree on the old growth. They never get better once they get damaged (the leaves).

The thing is, you might now be seeing the signs from mistakes/problems/issues earlier in the grow on the older leaves... But, there is not a thing that they will suffer from if you do a diluted feed flush. Also, just like OG said, when you do it, keep on running it through much heavier than normal until the run-off looks closer to the number of what you are putting in (the diluted feeding flush - measure it before you put it in). As far as PH, just measure the PH to make sure it's where you want it before you give it to them, and don't worry about the run-off for now. PH it to 5.6 perhaps, and just run it through to get a lot of run-off this next feeding. With the lower PPM's the PH won't be as big of an issue anyway.

It's actually just good practice to do this periodically whether you are seeing burn or not, especially so if you are seeing the higher run-off numbers and have any concerns. Now, don't get me wrong, it's good to sweat the small stuff and I've been in your shoes sweating those same concerns/questions plenty... but they'll be happy with the diluted nutrient flush and won't miss a beat, IMO. If the PH is right going in, and you flush it with a good amount of run-off, PH will not be a concern in my opinion.

Now, back to calm blue oceans... New growth looks great to me by the way!

 

[BigIrishDoode]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

um nothing else to say the guys said it all, except well ...smile! hmm do you ever foliar feed? they might love a lil light seaweed , also at times i have givin a very light foliar with my nute mix diluted 1/4 whatever my mix is, ,it feeds them a bit without having to mess with the medium, i gotta say im not missing this stuff with the chemical ferts with organics i never ph or measure ppm just dump n go, spray n play lol one day ill convince you to try bpn farmers pride in coco! truth be said i think they look great, new growth is a happy plant, they never live in the past plants just live by "onward and upward"

 

[sqwheels]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

First off I have to (hate to) admit I made a stupid mistake...so most of my worries about the pH may be mute. I forgot to calibrate my meter. I can't believe I'm still making stupid mistakes like this. It was off ... 7.4 and 3.9. So, I've fixed that and made notes in my calendars so I won't forget again. Hopefully.

Hi OG...Sorry I wasn't sure if I got the point across in my post, I'll try to answer these ?'s more clearly. RED

So you are feeding at 920 ppm and getting waste at 1500? Not exactly...the 920's were the veg mix, putting out #'s around 1050-1200. and the 1500/waste # was from flower mix @ 1270ppm...


How much "waste" is there when you water/feed, percentage wise?
Aurora Indica...5x5x7 pot...takes 16-20oz...puts out 3-4oz
NLxBB, BW ...7x7x9 pot...takes 40-50oz...puts out 8-10oz
Wonder Woman ... 12" round ... after transplant and that first soaking watering I don't water this to drain, it's too big and takes more than a week to dry out. I think this would end up messing with the feeding schedule, she usually gets 10-20oz more than nlxbb and bw, depending on how much she weighs. I've just been watching this one more closely for *bad* signs or side effects.

Keep in mind my perl/verm mix (75/25) First, I let them dry out good, on average...ai, 2 days - nlxbb & bw, 3 days - ww 4 days, they feel light and are dry to 1-1/2 - 2" deep along the edges. I water by hand, slowly, around the outside edges, 10-12oz at a time until water starts running out the bottom, then stop...after soaking for 10 minutes or so (time for training/bending/pinching out stuff) I tip the pot on the edge of a clean dish and let the last of the water drain into that dish...usually 1-2oz, this is what I measure for waste runoff #'s

The plants new growth looks great to me in your pics. I think so too, that's why I'm reluctant to do a "traditional" water flush.

Old growth is that, old. Don't worry about how it looks. Thanks, I know this, I'm just a little on edge...bugs snuck in on me and now that I've flipped to flower... I'm just watching too close, paranoid I guess, worried I'll mess something up after all this work/time.

I would feed them at 920 again and see what happens, but maybe let a little more drain thru to help flush out any buildup. Sometimes a diluted feed will actually be a better flush than just water. Salts are attracted to salts. If you are concerned about buildup, then don't flush with water, just use a diluted feed....take your normal feed and cut it with water and verify the pH is where you want it still. Actually I think I kinda do this all the time... I mix a gallon of feed, starting with ro/t = 90's + BPN 3 part Elite @ 10m/Micro & Grow, 15m/Bloom, 4m/Liquid Bloom = 1200-1300ppm's 5.7pH. I also have pH'd ro/t on hand. Normal routine feed/feed/water, with adjustments. I keep a calendar for each plant and depending on the previous waste #'s and what the plant looks like...I decide what to give it.. trying to keep the out #'s reasonable in comparison to the in #'s, all the while keeping an eye on the pH.

OK.. example... AI starting last week tuesday, her first flower dose after flip (her previous feed (sunday) was veg mix @908 out@1120). she got 50/50 - 10oz each rot 98 @ 5.9 AND rot 94 + BPN @ 10MG, 15B, 4LB = 1290@5.7 -- out #'s 1160@6.4; thursday, normal water day, IN rot 98 @ 5.9, OUT 775 @ 7.1; friday I noticed several yellowing leaves on the lower 1/3 so saturday was IN 1170 @ 5.7, OUT 1420 @ 6.4. Sunday I calibrated my meter and yesterday IN 10oz 1170 @ 5.4 AND 8oz 95 @ 5.6, OUT 1200 @ 6.0. This morning she had several more yellowing leaves, only near the bottom...looks just like typical N def. But I have to keep in mind also that I've moved the light up, because of stretch and much of all of them are not getting as deep of penetration.

I know this is really confusing and it turned out longer than I wanted but I think what I'm doing is different from straight hydro like ebb/flo or rdwc or whatever that acronym is for recirculating systems. The ones using reservoirs. And it's nothing like dirt. Corey told me when I first inquired about BPN that he didn't have anyone using it with perl/verm yet...so this is all experimental I guess.

I feel like I've completely screwed this grow up with timing and plant/pot size...I just didn't plan very well, and the girls got much bigger than I wanted. Most of my problems are self inflicted...at this point I just want them to finish with some decent tops and I'll use the rest for a dry ice hash experiment. I've got several vegging in 4" pots should time out and be much better for the next go 'round. One of these days I'll get it all figured out and have the perpetual grow, in the sizes I'm striving for.

Despite all my mistakes I think they look really good...I've got new pics (budlet porn ) to post as soon as I'm done making replies.

Thanks for taking time to try and help me...I really appreciate it.


Sq

 

[BigIrishDoode]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

i dont think you screwd anything up sweetie things dont usually go according to the plan, you have no idea what may come in the end you may have giant fat colas that need support to not collapse, thers no telling you working with a wild unpredictibal living thing! it could just as easily be a bumper crop as a typical one! your a good canna mom the plants look good! and will give you big buds that you need! dont be hard on yourself you never gave up so the plants are bigger than u planned lol not a bad problem to have! ev ting gon be iree! no worries

 

[Xlr8]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

I have no doubt at all you'll end up with some nice tops and more. Things are looking really good, and you're meticulous and on point so they're in very good hands. Don't worry about a lengthy reply to my post - or any reply for that matter if you have better things to do... was just wanting to sort of "second" what OG was saying a bit.

If you water periodically with a healthy run-off, you probably will need to do less of those periodic "diluted flushes". I've had some drain-to-waste plants in coco coir, that only seem to get a salt buildup if I don't allow for enough run-off with my regular waterings/feedings. Healthy amount of runoff = less nutrient salts to build up in the medium (regardless of the medium).

I know you aren't experiencing problems with new growth, but all doubts are removed in your future with a good diluted nutrient solution flush, IMO. No matter what's wrong, if anything at all, that'll be healthy and good and you'll remove any doubt about a burgeoning problem, so to speak... I guess I am reiterating and rambling, sorry!

 

[Blue Planet Nutrients]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

Oh FYI, BPN has been used in perlite/ vermiculite numerous times. 420fied used perlite and vermiculite in his hempys

 

[sqwheels]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

Like, Like, Like... I agree completely on all of it. Good advice OG (as always!)

Your high run-off is also telling you that starving them isn't the problem at the moment. Go ahead and do a 1/4 or 1/2 strength feeding next time. They'll love it and you won't hurt them at all. I also agree on the old growth. They never get better once they get damaged (the leaves).

The thing is, you might now be seeing the signs from mistakes/problems/issues earlier in the grow on the older leaves... But, there is not a thing that they will suffer from if you do a diluted feed flush. Also, just like OG said, when you do it, keep on running it through much heavier than normal until the run-off looks closer to the number of what you are putting in (the diluted feeding flush - measure it before you put it in). As far as PH, just measure the PH to make sure it's where you want it before you give it to them, and don't worry about the run-off for now. PH it to 5.6 perhaps, and just run it through to get a lot of run-off this next feeding. With the lower PPM's the PH won't be as big of an issue anyway.

It's actually just good practice to do this periodically whether you are seeing burn or not, especially so if you are seeing the higher run-off numbers and have any concerns. Now, don't get me wrong, it's good to sweat the small stuff and I've been in your shoes sweating those same concerns/questions plenty... but they'll be happy with the diluted nutrient flush and won't miss a beat, IMO. If the PH is right going in, and you flush it with a good amount of run-off, PH will not be a concern in my opinion.

Now, back to calm blue oceans... New growth looks great to me by the way!

Hi X,

Thanks...calm blue oceans... I try to keep that visual in my mind. I'm trying not to sweat it, I just want to stay on top of things. See my reply to OG about the diluted feeds and stuff. I do that already. I gave the example of AI. NLxBB & BW got just a dilute dose too. 40oz rot / 20oz BPN...cut their out #'s from 1500 to 1250 & 1270. And I know I can lower that easily by using low dose nutes, it only takes about 3 good fills/flush/drench type waterings and the ppm's are down to whatever it is I'm running thru them. It's because I don't see any burn that I'm just keeping the out numbers close to the feed numbers...according to the feed schedule they should be needing/using it. Right? Did that make sense?

If I feed/feed/water/repeat... the OUT is 1400-1500 (just a little over the IN) for a couple days and then cut by 1/2 with a plain watering/repeat. I'll have better #'s for comparison after their next watering...it will be rot only and we'll see just how far the OUT numbers fall with the flowering mix. I really am just experimenting I guess, because as I re-read this, it sounds like I have no idea what I'm doing...URG!

Please laugh with me and not at me

 

[sqwheels]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

um nothing else to say the guys said it all, except well ...smile! hmm do you ever foliar feed? they might love a lil light seaweed , also at times i have givin a very light foliar with my nute mix diluted 1/4 whatever my mix is, ,it feeds them a bit without having to mess with the medium, i gotta say im not missing this stuff with the chemical ferts with organics i never ph or measure ppm just dump n go, spray n play lol one day ill convince you to try bpn farmers pride in coco! truth be said i think they look great, new growth is a happy plant, they never live in the past plants just live by "onward and upward"

Hi bid,

No I haven't been foliar feeding lately, was a little worried about increased humidity that comes with that. I've been having good luck with the climate and don't want to mess that up with extra moisture. Now that they are big and bushy the humidity is up a little anyway.

I've been reading your coco grow...it's beautiful. but the weight...and size...it's too much for me. I really want to make it work this way...just have to keep tinkering, a little here, a little there...I'm sure it will come together. I just have to stop messin' it up, I really think X might be right about the problems being from past issues. We all seem to agree that the new stuff looks really good.

I still have to get those pictures posted...

Sq

 

[sqwheels]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

Ok just a couple quick photo's from last night...

Sh*t...it's giving me problems...won't let me post them. I'll try again later.

 

[sqwheels]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

Hi Folks

Ok, lets try this again...I've been having so much trouble posting pictures, don't know if this will work or not.

I have been trying to post the next two pictures for 15 minutes now...over and over the same key strokes...I must have done this 30 times now

Hit "my photos" button at the bottom or click the "camera icon" at the top to open the photos window...once that window opens I click the photo I want to post and it takes me to this url 420 Magazine ...I don't get it...why does this keep happening? It posted the first two pics without issue...then this. And if you noticed it changed my selected font and size back to default. This is really frustrating, makes me not want to post. I've got others I'd like to include in my updates, but get tired of fighting with this program.

gonna try again for the pics...nope same results. Sometimes I close the window that opens, and start over, sometimes I just re-click the buttons to make it reload "my photos", but the results are the same... now I've tried about 50 times...nope still happening

I've tried the "insert image" icon too...many times. It lets me get all the way to "copy source" but when I paste it into the url: bar and click ok...it does nothing.

gonna post this and retry in a new post

Sq

 

[sqwheels]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

OK, new post window... adv mode, I didn't change the font/size ...gonna try to post those other 2 pics now

no luck...dangit. This is making me crazy. If you want to see the others you'll have to visit My Photos...Sorry, I just don't need this frustration.

I'm going to catch up on others journals now.

I reported my previous post...maybe somebody on the staff can help me figure this out.



Sq

 

[OG13]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

Calm blue oceans......I think you are doing great. The out numbers are closer to the in numbers than I thought. I wouldn't even check the out pH(just more to worry about), just make sure you are getting at least 25 to 30% drainage. I like BID's foliar idea, once it gets a little drier. Seaweed is the only additive I use regularly.

 

[sqwheels]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

Oh FYI, BPN has been used in perlite/ vermiculite numerous times. 420fied used perlite and vermiculite in his hempys

Hi Corey,

I'm sorry if I miss spoke...I thought the first time we talked, over a year ago, you said you hadn't had anybody try it in hempy. But it was months after that, when Vape made his offer to me, that I actually started using them.

Thanks again Vape...

Doesn't the fact that we use different grow styles make it different? The two biggest variables are time and pot size/type. He grows clones directly into flower for just 8-10 weeks and uses 2L with a mini res, I grow water to waste and these girls are ... WW is a year old, NLxBB and BW are both 7 months old, and the Aurora Indica is 5 months. Maybe I'm over thinkin' it but...it seems different.

Sq

 

[Vapedogg223]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

Hey Sqwheels!

I wish I had more input, but with all the hydro experts around here...not to mention Corey, I just sit in the corner, play in my dirt, and shut-up!

I'm sorry you're getting frustrated with posting pics. I haven't uploaded any recently, so I'm not sure if it's something others are experiencing. Did you try to PM 420 or 420 Girl? If it's something they know about, they'll let you know what's going on, and if it's something they don't know about, I'm sure they want to!

But whatever you do, please don't stop posting!

 

[BigIrishDoode]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

did you try hitting "my pictures " and waiting a few min to click on the pic you want to post? that usually helps me but i have the same problem, tho not as bad as your having it...

 

[Xlr8]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

Hi Sqwheels!

Bummer on the pics, I just click the "my photos" button in the bottom left, and choose the picture I want, and "voila!" Haven't had any issues since I started posting them this way. Maybe it's a browser specific thing? The pics you did put up though look really good! Going to get stinky at Sqwheels's soon, with a whole lot of bloomin' going on. The fun stage is just beginning!

 

[sqwheels]

re: Sqwheels' Garden - Bonsai Style

Hi Folks

Time for a Flower Room update, I'm so happy to see flowers I could bust it's been far too long...sorry, I didn't realize this one was so fuzzy until I posted it

Aurora Indica canopy - 9 days since I saw first signs of flowers

and one of her buds...no real sugar yet but its early still

Blue Widow canopy - 10 days flower

her stems are full of flowers, but it's getting harder to make them stay bent to the side...they are stretching for the light really hard. one more week til defol, that'll let some more light in

a couple of her buds

Wonder Woman - 10 days, is the same...I've bent and re-bent her stems and they just keep poppin' back up

a little closer view

Northern Lights x Big Bud - also at 10 days...I'm gonna give this to my buddy to finish flowering, that room is just too full. All four will benefit if I remove one, and she's gonna have the biggest spread...he's got a couple of 1000w in his flower room and will give her a good home

a couple of her buds

It seems that any issues I thought I was having, have resolved themselves with a good drenching with 1/3 dilute nute mix...they all appear happy and healthy at the moment, and I'm sure once NLxBB is removed and I defoliate this weekend, they will start really showing.

Thanks for looking, hope you enjoy

to: 420 Girl...they all transfered without issue...smilies included



Sq