- Thread starter
- #81
SmokzAlot
New Member
Thank you for the appreciation. Glad I can help. Feel free to jump in anytime.
SmokzAlot - K.I.S.S. My CoCo and OC+
- Thread starter SmokzAlot
- Start date
Thank you for the appreciation. Glad I can help. Feel free to jump in anytime.
- Thread starter
- #82
SmokzAlot
New Member
What is it I like about cloning in rockwool? Simple self contained package. It's reasonably durable and easy to handle. Holds moisture great, wicks well, and inexpensive. I like that I can just pick one up and have a look see anytime.
K.I.S.S. written all over it when I look at it. It's a natural with OC+.
K.I.S.S. written all over it when I look at it. It's a natural with OC+.
Everything about you Smokz, makes me feel like I took a toke
in all the good ways possible, even if it's improbable
your the man I want close by, to spend a day glaring at the sky
your determination, is up to no recommendation
an article passing by you, ha, is like a man without a canoe
just doesn't happen, even with my rappin
but your very smart, intuitive and tough, which is why I can't thank you enough!!
in all the good ways possible, even if it's improbable
your the man I want close by, to spend a day glaring at the sky
your determination, is up to no recommendation
an article passing by you, ha, is like a man without a canoe
just doesn't happen, even with my rappin
but your very smart, intuitive and tough, which is why I can't thank you enough!!
- Thread starter
- #84
SmokzAlot
New Member
Ahh Miss Bud, you humble me with your kind words.
I am but a man with a plan
with an eye on the sky
reaching for the stars
constantly raising the bar
I could easily be a victim
in this hard life
but I choose to seek joy
and leave this all this strife
pain is but a reminder
we are human souls
do you only suffer
or do you also grow?
I am but a man with a plan
with an eye on the sky
reaching for the stars
constantly raising the bar
I could easily be a victim
in this hard life
but I choose to seek joy
and leave this all this strife
pain is but a reminder
we are human souls
do you only suffer
or do you also grow?
keith1074
New Member
Hey smokZ.. You saw my 5 gallon pails right? someone told me I should take them out of the pail and add more soil because I have leaves in the pail! I am worried that i will diturb the root system, I think theres enough light to get to the leaves in question. With this said what is your take on it?
- Thread starter
- #86
SmokzAlot
New Member
I am not the definitive answer but I am glad to share my view. First thing is that plant will grow a lot more as well. Ventilation is very important to plant health. They breathe as does the soil. With a canopy down in the bucket it could cause excess humidity and favorable conditions for mold or a host of pests as well. Will it be the death of your plants? I doubt it. You can either replant, trim lower vegetation, or do nothing and hope you encounter no problems. I tend to lean towards the easy way. Avoid the problems in the first place. Someone was trying to help you believe it or not. Don't fear the roots, in my book they are fairly hardy. Handle them gently as you can. I find more impact with the medium than the process itself. I always let them dry out just a bit prior to transplant, it slips out easier in my opinion. Once transplanted water well, till it runs out the bottom a bit, then let stand. I may transplant 2 to 3 times in a plants life. When all done there should be enough space left in the pot so you can water adequately without running over. Say about 1" - 1 1/2" down from the edge of the pot. I have to say as well if you are going to use a pot use it all. More roots is better. Hard to tell in the pic but it appears you may have made an unusually large choice for a container. I say this because it appears to be restricting your vertical height. I'd rather see more plant a little less container. Is height an issue in your garden? There are those of us that don't mind growing trees. If you really wish to talk more in depth drop a line in your thread it would be more relevant to your garden thread. Thanks for stopping by.
- Thread starter
- #87
SmokzAlot
New Member
Today's determination in the flower room is CALCIUM deficiency. It is appearing across the coco garden. I was more or less expecting it, but was hoping my WW/RO mix was enough. My opinion at this point is typical to what you read in the coco world. It wants to hold onto calcium and magnesium. I have treated by adding some dolomite lime to my res. I hope to pick up some cal/mag as I just feel it will give me a better result. Must accept that like many deficiencies the damage is done. The plant will finish, been here before with soil. Nothing to fret as long as it is addressed. Let the leaves be consumed else they will simply turn to another. Mother is swelling and the twins are now budding as well.
Perhaps if I premix some dolomite in the coco at last transplant... hmmm
I prefer to solve by not tending a res. Stay in the style of water and run.
So I am thinking amending as one would soil. Can I?
Any coco gurus?
Pressing On...
Perhaps if I premix some dolomite in the coco at last transplant... hmmm
I prefer to solve by not tending a res. Stay in the style of water and run.
So I am thinking amending as one would soil. Can I?
Any coco gurus?
Pressing On...
- Thread starter
- #88
SmokzAlot
New Member
Darn I was just reading my own post and....oh well
Here is my own critique
Adding dolomite lime is more than likely not a good idea with coco. It is known to buffer ph to about 6.5 which is counter to coco coir that falls in about 5.5 or so. As one wants to maintain a 5.8 this may induce lock on other components.
:icon_roll
perhaps gypsum.. more research
Here is my own critique
Adding dolomite lime is more than likely not a good idea with coco. It is known to buffer ph to about 6.5 which is counter to coco coir that falls in about 5.5 or so. As one wants to maintain a 5.8 this may induce lock on other components.
:icon_roll
perhaps gypsum.. more research
- Thread starter
- #89
SmokzAlot
New Member
sharing some research
---
The Story About Gypsum
Clemson.edu
Gypsum (CaSO4) is considered both a soil ammendment and a source of plant nutrients.
When soils have been exposed to too much sodium (usually in the coastal areas), two concerns arise. One is that sodium on the exchange sites of clays and organic matter tends to make them disperse and the soil becomes impermeable as the clays clog up the pore spaces. This is not really a problem in the coastal region where the soils are very sandy and have essentially no clay. The second concern with sodium is that excessive amounts in the soil can exclude the uptake of other nutrients such as calci um and magnesium. Too much uptake of sodium by a plant can cause toxicity problems usually manifest by necrosis of leaf edges. An application of gypsum to the soil will help to exclude the uptake of so much sodium by the roots just by the fact that the calcium ions will vastly out-number the sodium ions.
Often when the soil pH tests less than 5.8, the calcium level in the soil will also test only "low" or "medium". There are instances, however, when the soil pH value will be adequate (between 5.8 and 6.5) yet the calcium level will still test less tha n the optimum "high". In this case, the addition of lime to provide the needed calcium will raise the pH value too high and likely cause other problems such as a micronutrient deficiency. Gypsum can be added to the soil to supply the needed calcium with out altering the soil pH value. The alternative method of adding more calcium without raising the pH value is to use fertilizers which contain calcium.
Gypsum also is a good source of sulfur but this is only a side benefit from its use. In the rare instances where sulfur is needed in the soil, most people will add elemental sulfur or use a fertilizer with some form of sulfur in it.
There are no easily accessible guidelines regarding the application rate of gypsum in a homeowner situation. It is sparingly soluble and so it is nearly impossible to over-apply. In the Western part of the United States, many crops grow just fine in soils that have naturally occurring, undissolved accumulations of gypsum throughout the soil. Generally, a homeowner can just sprinkle a fine layer over the soil surface and work it in. A general application rate is 100 to 150 pounds per 1,000 square feet. Gypsum is a must for tomato growers in our South Carolina to prevent "blossom end rot". In an agricultural situation, enough gypsum should be applied to supply 100 pounds of calcium per acre when the soil test report does not call for lime but the calcium level tests "medium" or "low".
---
March 12, 2002
The Value of Gypsum
George Rehm, Extension Soil Scientist
University of Minnesota
[opening was edited from original non relevant]
The Basics
Gypsum is calcium sulfate. Historical accounts suggest that it was applied to land in colonial times. When applied to soil, it dissolves somewhat slowly and separates into the Ca++ and SO4-- ions. Using chemistry terminology, this separation is called dissociation.
The chemistry equation is written as: CaSO4 <==> Ca++ + SO4--.
The calcium (Ca), being positively charges, becomes attracted to clay particles and is not leached from soils. The sulfate (SO4) is not attracted to clay particles and remains in the soil water films. It can leach through soils just like NO3 although not as rapidly.
A Source of Calcium for Plant Growth?
Yes, the calcium from gypsum can be taken up (absorbed) by plants. Amount of calcium needed for crops, however, is relatively small. Minnesota soils have high levels of calcium. Therefore, calcium from an outside source will not be needed to achieve optimum crop production in Minnesota. Thus, we don't need to think of gypsum as a fertilizer source of calcium.
A Liming Material?
There has been some suggestion that the application of gypsum will raise the pH of acid soils. Although gypsum, like lime, contains calcium, the calcium is not responsible for an increase in pH where soils are limed. It is true that the use of gypsum increases pH when applied to acid soils in the southwestern United States. That increase is due to complex reactions with soluble aluminum. Soluble aluminum is certainly not a concern in Minnesota soils. Therefore, we can't justify the application of gypsum as a liming material.
Will Gypsum Use Reduce Soil pH?
Soybean growers who have problems with iron deficiency chlorosis in western Minnesota would like to discover a soil amendment that would lower pH. Some have suggested that the application of gypsum will do this. Gypsum, however, is a neutral salt. When it dissolves (dissociates) in soil, there is no change in soil pH.
Gypsum is used to reclaim saline or saline/alkali soils in the western United States. With these soils, there is an excessive amount of sodium (Na) that must be removed. This reclamation requires:
1. Application of gypsum at very high rates (hundreds of pounds per acre)
2. Large amounts of irrigation water
3. Drainage to remove this water from the soil system.
The reclamation process can be described as follows:
In this process, the calcium from gypsum replaces the sodium associated with the soil clay particles. To be successful, the sodium must be removed from the soil system. This is accomplished by flushing with high rates (in excess of 12 inches) of irrigation water and drainage.
In Minnesota, a small number of acres are classified as saline or saline/alkali. In addition, large amounts of irrigation water and good drainage are not found where these soils are present. So, use of gypsum on these soils would have no benefit in Minnesota.
The pH of calcareous soils can be reduced temporarily by the application of high rates of elemental sulfur. When elemental sulfur is added to soils, it is converted (oxidized) to sulfate sulfur. This is a biological reaction that produces hydrogen (H+).
Elemental Sulfur --->--->sulfate sulfur + H+
To achieve any reduction in pH, high rates of elemental sulfur are needed and the pH reduction is temporary. Results of research in Chippewa County show this (see following table).
Effect of application of elemental sulfur on soil pH.
Sulfur Applied (lb./acre)
Date 0 30 100 2000
10/1969 7.9 7.5 7.1 7.0
7/1970 7.8 7.7 7.3 7.2
10/1970 8.0 7.8 7.7 7.9
Elemental S applied 5/1969; Chippewa County
Results of this trial show that there is no economical way to reduce soil pH for any length of time.
Gypsum does contain sulfur (approximately 17.5%). But the sulfur is in the sulfate form and there is no reduction in soil pH when this material is added to calcareous soils. So, we don't need gypsum to reduce soil pH.
A Sulfur Fertilizer?
Gypsum has been recognized as a source of sulfur for several years. Use of gypsum will have a positive effect on crop yield where sulfur is deficient in soils.
---
I wondered as well what else is available with added calcium that is an OC type of product. Scott's (MG) has a shake and feed that has added calcium for tomatoes and veggies.
Hmmmmm comes in the same bottle only green.
Miracle-Gro® Shake 'n Feed® Tomato, Fruits & Vegetables Continuous Release Plant Food Plus Calcium
Continuous release plant food formula with micronutrients features dual-action feeding - feeds instantly to get plants off to a good start, AND provides continuous release feeding for up to 3 months.
Contains calcium to help from stronger cell walls, producing better quality and longer-lasting fruits and vegetables. PLUS it helps prevent disorders such as blossom-end rot- bitter pit and fruit cracking.
Use with confidence in ground and in containers - guaranteed not to burn when used as directed.
Fertilizer Analysis
9-4-12 with Micronutrients and added calcium
Where to Use
For feeding fruit and vegetable plants. Apply in ground and in containers.
and the beat goes on
---
The Story About Gypsum
Clemson.edu
Gypsum (CaSO4) is considered both a soil ammendment and a source of plant nutrients.
When soils have been exposed to too much sodium (usually in the coastal areas), two concerns arise. One is that sodium on the exchange sites of clays and organic matter tends to make them disperse and the soil becomes impermeable as the clays clog up the pore spaces. This is not really a problem in the coastal region where the soils are very sandy and have essentially no clay. The second concern with sodium is that excessive amounts in the soil can exclude the uptake of other nutrients such as calci um and magnesium. Too much uptake of sodium by a plant can cause toxicity problems usually manifest by necrosis of leaf edges. An application of gypsum to the soil will help to exclude the uptake of so much sodium by the roots just by the fact that the calcium ions will vastly out-number the sodium ions.
Often when the soil pH tests less than 5.8, the calcium level in the soil will also test only "low" or "medium". There are instances, however, when the soil pH value will be adequate (between 5.8 and 6.5) yet the calcium level will still test less tha n the optimum "high". In this case, the addition of lime to provide the needed calcium will raise the pH value too high and likely cause other problems such as a micronutrient deficiency. Gypsum can be added to the soil to supply the needed calcium with out altering the soil pH value. The alternative method of adding more calcium without raising the pH value is to use fertilizers which contain calcium.
Gypsum also is a good source of sulfur but this is only a side benefit from its use. In the rare instances where sulfur is needed in the soil, most people will add elemental sulfur or use a fertilizer with some form of sulfur in it.
There are no easily accessible guidelines regarding the application rate of gypsum in a homeowner situation. It is sparingly soluble and so it is nearly impossible to over-apply. In the Western part of the United States, many crops grow just fine in soils that have naturally occurring, undissolved accumulations of gypsum throughout the soil. Generally, a homeowner can just sprinkle a fine layer over the soil surface and work it in. A general application rate is 100 to 150 pounds per 1,000 square feet. Gypsum is a must for tomato growers in our South Carolina to prevent "blossom end rot". In an agricultural situation, enough gypsum should be applied to supply 100 pounds of calcium per acre when the soil test report does not call for lime but the calcium level tests "medium" or "low".
---
March 12, 2002
The Value of Gypsum
George Rehm, Extension Soil Scientist
University of Minnesota
[opening was edited from original non relevant]
The Basics
Gypsum is calcium sulfate. Historical accounts suggest that it was applied to land in colonial times. When applied to soil, it dissolves somewhat slowly and separates into the Ca++ and SO4-- ions. Using chemistry terminology, this separation is called dissociation.
The chemistry equation is written as: CaSO4 <==> Ca++ + SO4--.
The calcium (Ca), being positively charges, becomes attracted to clay particles and is not leached from soils. The sulfate (SO4) is not attracted to clay particles and remains in the soil water films. It can leach through soils just like NO3 although not as rapidly.
A Source of Calcium for Plant Growth?
Yes, the calcium from gypsum can be taken up (absorbed) by plants. Amount of calcium needed for crops, however, is relatively small. Minnesota soils have high levels of calcium. Therefore, calcium from an outside source will not be needed to achieve optimum crop production in Minnesota. Thus, we don't need to think of gypsum as a fertilizer source of calcium.
A Liming Material?
There has been some suggestion that the application of gypsum will raise the pH of acid soils. Although gypsum, like lime, contains calcium, the calcium is not responsible for an increase in pH where soils are limed. It is true that the use of gypsum increases pH when applied to acid soils in the southwestern United States. That increase is due to complex reactions with soluble aluminum. Soluble aluminum is certainly not a concern in Minnesota soils. Therefore, we can't justify the application of gypsum as a liming material.
Will Gypsum Use Reduce Soil pH?
Soybean growers who have problems with iron deficiency chlorosis in western Minnesota would like to discover a soil amendment that would lower pH. Some have suggested that the application of gypsum will do this. Gypsum, however, is a neutral salt. When it dissolves (dissociates) in soil, there is no change in soil pH.
Gypsum is used to reclaim saline or saline/alkali soils in the western United States. With these soils, there is an excessive amount of sodium (Na) that must be removed. This reclamation requires:
1. Application of gypsum at very high rates (hundreds of pounds per acre)
2. Large amounts of irrigation water
3. Drainage to remove this water from the soil system.
The reclamation process can be described as follows:
In this process, the calcium from gypsum replaces the sodium associated with the soil clay particles. To be successful, the sodium must be removed from the soil system. This is accomplished by flushing with high rates (in excess of 12 inches) of irrigation water and drainage.
In Minnesota, a small number of acres are classified as saline or saline/alkali. In addition, large amounts of irrigation water and good drainage are not found where these soils are present. So, use of gypsum on these soils would have no benefit in Minnesota.
The pH of calcareous soils can be reduced temporarily by the application of high rates of elemental sulfur. When elemental sulfur is added to soils, it is converted (oxidized) to sulfate sulfur. This is a biological reaction that produces hydrogen (H+).
Elemental Sulfur --->--->sulfate sulfur + H+
To achieve any reduction in pH, high rates of elemental sulfur are needed and the pH reduction is temporary. Results of research in Chippewa County show this (see following table).
Effect of application of elemental sulfur on soil pH.
Sulfur Applied (lb./acre)
Date 0 30 100 2000
10/1969 7.9 7.5 7.1 7.0
7/1970 7.8 7.7 7.3 7.2
10/1970 8.0 7.8 7.7 7.9
Elemental S applied 5/1969; Chippewa County
Results of this trial show that there is no economical way to reduce soil pH for any length of time.
Gypsum does contain sulfur (approximately 17.5%). But the sulfur is in the sulfate form and there is no reduction in soil pH when this material is added to calcareous soils. So, we don't need gypsum to reduce soil pH.
A Sulfur Fertilizer?
Gypsum has been recognized as a source of sulfur for several years. Use of gypsum will have a positive effect on crop yield where sulfur is deficient in soils.
---
I wondered as well what else is available with added calcium that is an OC type of product. Scott's (MG) has a shake and feed that has added calcium for tomatoes and veggies.
Hmmmmm comes in the same bottle only green.
Miracle-Gro® Shake 'n Feed® Tomato, Fruits & Vegetables Continuous Release Plant Food Plus Calcium
Continuous release plant food formula with micronutrients features dual-action feeding - feeds instantly to get plants off to a good start, AND provides continuous release feeding for up to 3 months.
Contains calcium to help from stronger cell walls, producing better quality and longer-lasting fruits and vegetables. PLUS it helps prevent disorders such as blossom-end rot- bitter pit and fruit cracking.
Use with confidence in ground and in containers - guaranteed not to burn when used as directed.
Fertilizer Analysis
9-4-12 with Micronutrients and added calcium
Where to Use
For feeding fruit and vegetable plants. Apply in ground and in containers.
and the beat goes on
Smokz,
I was at the hydro store yesterday picking up some soil and I was going to buy a small coco brick to test, but I didn't know which one to buy, coarse or fine.
Which do you use?
I was at the hydro store yesterday picking up some soil and I was going to buy a small coco brick to test, but I didn't know which one to buy, coarse or fine.
Which do you use?
- Thread starter
- #91
SmokzAlot
New Member
Canna coco coir is not a compressed brick and what I am currently using.
is what you do use coarse or fine?
- Thread starter
- #93
SmokzAlot
New Member
I would call it fine, sorry for missing that detail in your question.
- Thread starter
- #94
SmokzAlot
New Member
Today is the grow room things are as expected. My treatment of dolomite, molasses, and epsom seems to have halted the progress of my deficiencies.
dolomite lime @ 1 tbsp per gal
calcium
magnesium
epsom @ 1 tsp per gal
magnesium
sulfur
molasses @ 1 tsp per gal
manganese
copper
iron
calcium
potassium
magnesium
vitamin B
selenium
Full speed ahead. I pushed a clone into flower today, more to follow soon. They will receive preventive treatments of the listed amendments about 1-2 weeks into flower. Some combination there of over the coarse.
Upon review and research on my issue, I am going to amend the coco with some dolomite lime at least when making final transplant, to avert this from happening again. No issues in veg, nothing but lush growth. All read reports of using dolomite in coco was without ph incident so I shall more than likely give it a whirl.
dolomite lime @ 1 tbsp per gal
calcium
magnesium
epsom @ 1 tsp per gal
magnesium
sulfur
molasses @ 1 tsp per gal
manganese
copper
iron
calcium
potassium
magnesium
vitamin B
selenium
Full speed ahead. I pushed a clone into flower today, more to follow soon. They will receive preventive treatments of the listed amendments about 1-2 weeks into flower. Some combination there of over the coarse.
Upon review and research on my issue, I am going to amend the coco with some dolomite lime at least when making final transplant, to avert this from happening again. No issues in veg, nothing but lush growth. All read reports of using dolomite in coco was without ph incident so I shall more than likely give it a whirl.
- Thread starter
- #95
SmokzAlot
New Member
Pushed another clone into flower
Cleaned res today
amendments:
molasses
dolomite lime
ph 6.0
Time for some photo updates.
Momma mia, she is putting on some weight...
Sativa twin
The vegging clones look good...
Twin Towers in soil... about done
Cleaned res today
amendments:
molasses
dolomite lime
ph 6.0
Time for some photo updates.
Momma mia, she is putting on some weight...
Sativa twin
The vegging clones look good...
Twin Towers in soil... about done
TokerJoker
New Member
Damn those look fantastic smokz!!!!
nice smokzalot your garden looks productive!
cheeers
cheeers
- Thread starter
- #98
SmokzAlot
New Member
shottafire - Thanks appreciate it..
TokerJoker - Thanks for the compliment. I do try.
I forgot to include that I also amended my res with Pond Enzyme like previously applied in this grow.
Some eye candy for the day..
A healthy bud on Mom...
Calcium Deficiency on one of Mom's buds...
Great light hanger I found at Tractor Supply Store. It's sold as a hanging plant hanger. Will hold at any position and will handle the hefty stuff. The deal was $10 for the set. I will have to go back for more.
TokerJoker - Thanks for the compliment. I do try.
I forgot to include that I also amended my res with Pond Enzyme like previously applied in this grow.
Some eye candy for the day..
A healthy bud on Mom...
Calcium Deficiency on one of Mom's buds...
Great light hanger I found at Tractor Supply Store. It's sold as a hanging plant hanger. Will hold at any position and will handle the hefty stuff. The deal was $10 for the set. I will have to go back for more.
- Thread starter
- #99
SmokzAlot
New Member
Today I decided to switch over to GLR in the veg room.
Checking on the clones...
The ones in the rear are the Indica girls and sativa in the front. Looking to keep an Indica mother as I am liking what I see so far in Mom.
Roots are popping...
Its been 14 days since cut. They were taken in flower. Last set rooted in 11 days. So far still 100% success rate.
Topped a few...
Momma's silhouette..
Momma's Candy is lookin Dandy...
..
Checking on the clones...
The ones in the rear are the Indica girls and sativa in the front. Looking to keep an Indica mother as I am liking what I see so far in Mom.
Roots are popping...
Its been 14 days since cut. They were taken in flower. Last set rooted in 11 days. So far still 100% success rate.
Topped a few...
Momma's silhouette..
Momma's Candy is lookin Dandy...
..
TokerJoker
New Member
Mighty fine indeed!!!
