SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

[cbdhemp808]

For anyone having trouble sourcing 1 gal buckets or perforated drain pipe for the "dome" of a DIY grow bucket...

I just realized that (3) inverted 1qt plastic yogurt containers could be used for the "dome". Each would have holes in the base, and holes down the sides, for air flow (air contact w/ soil). Best to make with a hot soldering iron, but a drill if you don't have that. Put the drain hole in the 5 gal bucket at the usual 3.5" from bottom of bucket. If you want a drain tube, it can be inserted into one of the 1 qt containers. Cut a hole in the base of one of the containers for the fill tube to enter.

This design would provide plenty of air space, good wicking, and lots of "R"—i.e. where the roots have direct access to saturated soil. The "dome" only uses up 3/4 gal of space, so 4-1/4 gal left for soil.

The containers are #2 food grade HDPE plastic.

EDIT: I have A LOT of these 24 oz yogurt containers... a bit less that 1 qt. They are 4-1/2 in tall, which is perfect for a 1" air space at full reservoir. Normal 1 qt. container is 5-1/4" tall, for a bit more air space. The rim diameters are the same. The 24 oz. one is about 0.8 qt, so 3 of them are 2.4 qt = 0.6 gal, yielding soil volume of about 4.4 gal. For the 1 qt. containers, soil volume is about 4.25 gal.

Behold the Triforce Dome... comes in 2 sizes, the regular 1 qt. yogurt container (5.25" tall), and the 24 oz. yogurt container (4.5" tall). Just add holes in the bases, down the sides, and add filler tube hole in one of them, and drain tube hole in another one.

 

[scottreid1966]

For anyone having trouble sourcing 1 gal buckets or perforated drain pipe for the "dome" of a DIY grow bucket...

I just realized that (3) inverted 1qt plastic yogurt containers could be used for the "dome". Each would have holes in the base, and holes down the sides, for air flow (air contact w/ soil). Best to make with a hot soldering iron, but a drill if you don't have that. Put the drain hole in the 5 gal bucket at the usual 3.5" from bottom of bucket. If you want a drain tube, it can be inserted into one of the 1 qt containers. Cut a hole in the base of one of the containers for the fill tube to enter.

This design would provide plenty of air space, good wicking, and lots of "R"—i.e. where the roots have direct access to saturated soil. The "dome" only uses up 3/4 gal of space, so 4-1/4 gal left for soil.

The containers are #2 food grade HDPE plastic.

Interesting, my friend.

Photos would be nice.

Cheers!

 

[cbdhemp808]

Interesting, my friend.

Photos would be nice.

I added photos above.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I am now leaning toward the Triforce Dome... recycled free HDPE containers, no cutting, great "R" space, good air space.

 

[Ramblinrose1965]

Hey all you SIPpers....Good evening. I just made my first mini SIP containers. The clone on the left has been in for about 48 hours and the one on the right I just planted. Both are Barneys Farms Purple Punch strain.

I made them from a 1 quart Yogurt container and a single serve yogurt container and a couple of oversized drinking straws. I was able to achieve a 1" air space with the reservoir completely filled. I used a small soldering iron to make air holes in the small container as well as the drain and fill hole. Super easy even after a few puffs

Just wanted to thank everyone in this thread for all the help and ideas. God I can't eat any more yogurt.

 

[Azimuth]

Hey all you SIPpers....Good evening. I just made my first mini SIP containers. The clone on the left has been in for about 48 hours and the one on the right I just planted. Both are Barneys Farms Purple Punch strain.

I made them from a 1 quart Yogurt container and a single serve yogurt container and a couple of oversized drinking straws. I was able to achieve a 1" air space with the reservoir completely filled. I used a small soldering iron to make air holes in the small container as well as the drain and fill hole. Super easy even after a few puffs

Just wanted to thank everyone in this thread for all the help and ideas. God I can't eat any more yogurt.

Nice! Welcome to SIP Club.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Greetings SIPsters & Growmies,

I just got finished building a new SIP bucket... well almost, I still need to add air vent holes. I literally made only 2 tubing cuts and 3 holes. This one has my new "Triforce dome" design, made out of HDPE yogurt containers (4.5" tall, 24 oz. type). The goal is 100% HDPE, and the only non-HDPE here is the PVC drain tube (1/2" inner dia.), which will be replaced in subsequent builds with 3/4" black HDPE tubing, same as the fill tube.

"Triforce SIP bucket"... finished except for the dome air holes, which I'll add later today. I used the 1" black HDPE tubing this time for the filler tube, which comes in 24" lengths. I cut the stock piece in half, making two usable 12" sections. The opening will accommodate a funnel made out of a drugstore #2 plastic peroxide or alcohol bottle.

Cutting the hole for the filler tube using 1-1/8" hole saw drill bit. This creates a friction fit with the 1" tubing. I decided to make the hole dead center. If I offset the hole to the edge, the tubing doesn't stand straight up.

View of inserted tube from inside the container. With the tube inserted in the hole, about 3/4" sticks down. This is a tight fit.

Now measuring the position of the drain tube on the 5 gal bucket. The mark is at 3-1/2" from the bottom of the bucket. I set the PVC tubing in place for this photo, just above the mark, to show where the hole goes. The 5 dots represent the base of the yogurt container ("top") inside the bucket, so you can see the air space that will be created here. Air space is ~1-1/4".

I cut the hole with a 3/4" spade bit, which is slightly too small to make a good friction fit for the ~7/8" O.D. PVC pipe. I used my knife on it a bit, and also my butane torch for a couple seconds. The heat made the pipe go in easy w/ fairly good seal and tightness. I'll do better next time. I eventually want to use 3/4" black HDPE for the drain tube, which will have a slightly different diameter.

Now I made the drain hole in one of the yogurt containers. I positioned this by setting up the container where it would go in the bucket, opposite the hole in the bucket, put the drain pipe in position, then put a sharpie into the pipe and made a circle on the yogurt container. Then I drilled with the 3/4" spade bit. This provided a hole with just the right amount of friction fit.

I used a 3" section of PVC pipe.

This orientation makes the overflow visible when filling.

I'll post some more photos later showing the air holes in the dome tubs—tops and sides—which I'll make with a soldering iron. The side holes are dual-purpose, serving to help distribute the reservoir water when filling, and then become air vents as the water recedes. At least that's the plan. I think it will work.

 

[Azimuth]

Nice build!

Are you planning to connect the three yogurt cups in the air zone?

 

[cbdhemp808]

Nice build!

Are you planning to connect the three yogurt cups in the air zone?

No tubing to connect. 3 air zones. At least I think it will work... as the water level rises, holes in the sides of the tubs will allow water to come in. So, 2 tubs will have air inlet—one from fill tube, one from drain tube. One tub will be without an air inlet. It will have an air space, which will expand downward as the water level drops. But where does that air come from? A gradual vacuum will be created that will pull air from the closest air source—the other two tubs! Sucking air across the gap inhabited by the roots! On filling, the opposite happens... as water rises in the 3rd tub, the air in the tub has to go somewhere, so it is pushed upward and into the soil and roots around the tub. That's the plan anyway... we'll see what happens!

 

[Chuckeye]

No tubing to connect. 3 air zones. At least I think it will work... as the water level rises, holes in the sides of the tubs will allow water to come in. So, 2 tubs will have air inlet—one from fill tube, one from drain tube. One tub will be without an air inlet. It will have an air space, which will expand downward as the water level drops. But where does that air come from? A gradual vacuum will be created that will pull air from the closest air source—the other two tubs! Sucking air across the gap inhabited by the roots! On filling, the opposite happens... as water rises in the 3rd tub, the air in the tub has to go somewhere, so it is pushed into the soil and roots all around that tub. That's the plan anyway... we'll see what happens!

I think the fill tube will negate any vacuum action but water flows down towards the least resistance !

It is likely the two other containers will eventually reach equilibrium with the first container and you will need to gradually add more water until all three are full to run off....

Can we call that wicking

But I like this little bit of trivia >

My yogurt containers are = Top 4 1/2" w x Bottom 3" x 5" H

A circumference of 3 circles is 28"

Rough diameter of grow bucket bottom is 10", circumference is 31.4"...........

So a loss of 3" compared to Grobuckets, if it is okay to use that as a standard for discussion ?

Say a 650g container holds 23 oz x 3 containers = 69 oz. Say the air gap is -7 oz for a total capacity of 62 oz for a volume of .44 gallons.

Pretty sure the only difference in plant growth is going to be the need to water twice as often ?

I"ll quit there but it could be the pail will hold more medium, not likely enough to matter...

Cheers

 

[cbdhemp808]

Triforce SIP bucket ** Experimental ** Build #1 (see also above build steps)

Air/Water Vents in Domes 1-3

Water comes into D1 and fills the reservoir, spilling into the soil space between the domes, and entering the other domes through the side vents, until spillover through drain in D2. Air space in all domes is about 1-1/4" at full res. D3 is not connected to a direct air source, so will have positive or negative air pressure as reservoir fills or empties, causing air flow into the surrounding soil/root space. D1 has 20 holes, D2 has 24 holes, and D3 has 25 holes. Additional holes can be added on the sides if needed.

D3: 13 holes on top, 12 on the sides. Holes were made with an electric wood burning tool... don't breath the smoke! A soldering iron would also work. This creates clean holes without burrs. D1 and D2 have the same pattern, except where the tubes enter the domes.

Inside view of D3. Side holes could be increase from 12 up to 24.

This shows the soil/root zone in the reservoir—the area around the domes, in the reservoir—not in the domes. Actually the reservoir max level is about 1-1/4" below the dome tops, but this gives you the idea. Volume of this zone is about 0.82 gal, or about 3-1/3 qt. This soil/root zone, which is what I call "R" in my diagrams above, is huge compared to other grow bucket designs. It's also a very large wicking zone. Total reservoir volume when full is about 1.25 gal. Access to air for the soil and roots is distributed by the three domes, giving high surface area of air/soil interface. I'm envisioning using a coir/perlite mix for this zone, and then my usual super soil above that.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I think the fill tube will negate any vacuum action but water flows down towards the least resistance !

Both the fill tube and the drain tube provide air to the system, but only into their respective domes. The fact that the bucket is filled with soil means that any other air to enter the system must come from the soil surface. When the reservoir is filled (from empty), and enters the D3 dome, the air in D3 will be compressed slightly and pushed out of the dome upward and outward through the vents, displacing the air between the soil particles (coir/perlite particles), and released to the nearest vent to the outside which is D1 fill tube and D2 drain tube. When the reservoir is drained by the roots, this is very gradual, and the air pressure equilibrium inside D3 is kept by air seeping through the soil from D1 and D2 into D3.

It is likely the two other containers will eventually reach equilibrium with the first container and you will need to gradually add more water until all three are full to run off....

When filling D1, overflow comes out D2. Yes, the ideal rate of infill isn't know at this point, but obviously dumping a gallon of water down the tube all at once probably wouldn't be a good idea. Testing is needed. D3 needs to also fill, and like D2, that happens as the water level rises in the res and infiltrates those domes via the side vents.

Can we call that wicking

I see wicking as the natural action of the res water being sucked up by the dryer soil above the res.

But I like this little bit of trivia >

My yogurt containers are = Top 4 1/2" w x Bottom 3" x 5" H

A circumference of 3 circles is 28"

Rough diameter of grow bucket bottom is 10", circumference is 31.4"...........

So a loss of 3" compared to Grobuckets, if it is okay to use that as a standard for discussion ?

Say a 650g container holds 23 oz x 3 containers = 69 oz. Say the air gap is -7 oz for a total capacity of 62 oz for a volume of .44 gallons.

Pretty sure the only difference in plant growth is going to be the need to water twice as often ?

I"ll quit there but it could be the pail will hold more medium, not likely enough to matter...

Ya completely lost me there. These calculations need to be done using volumes, and I have done those calculations. I also figured out the dimensions of the GroBucket system elements (fill tube and dome). I think the reservoir volume of my design is on par with the GroBucket's res volume. The big difference is that my dome is divided into 3 domes (hence the name "Triforce"), which greatly increases the soil/root zone in the reservoir—in other words, there's a lot more space for the roots to grow, in soil, in the reservoir. (Except that I will probably use coir/perlite mix in this zone, about 0.8 gal.) This also means a much larger wicking area. My design has a distributed air gap of 1-1/4", also on par with the GroBucket's air gap, but divided into 3 air gaps. My design also uses air/water vents down the sides of the domes, whereas the GroBucket dome doesn't have that.

 

[Chuckeye]

Ya completely lost me there. These calculations need to be done using volumes, and I have done those calculations. I also figured out the dimensions of the GroBucket system elements (fill tube and dome). I think the reservoir volume of my design is on par with the GroBucket's res volume. The big difference is that my dome is divided into 3 domes (hence the name "Triforce"), which greatly increases the soil/root zone in the reservoir—in other words, there's a lot more space for the roots to grow, in soil, in the reservoir. (Except that I will probably use coir/perlite mix in this zone, about 0.8 gal.) This also means a much larger wicking area. My design has a distributed air gap of 1-1/4", also on par with the GroBucket's air gap, but divided into 3 air gaps. My design also uses air/water vents down the sides of the domes, whereas the GroBucket dome doesn't have that.

The math was a bit of a challenge

Cafe Racer made me do it the old fashioned way

Three yogurt containers filled to within an inch of theirs tops...

Maybe a 1/3 of a gallon...

Cheers

 

[cbdhemp808]

Three yogurt containers filled to within an inch of theirs tops...

Maybe a 1/3 of a gallon...

I think I came up with about 0.45 gal. But, the reservoir is both in the domes and around the domes, same as with the GroBucket and its dome. The air space above the reservoir is only inside the domes. The GroBucket actually has a greater internal dome volume than my design, which means less "R" space for soil/roots in the res. The roots don't infiltrate the domes much—that's key to understand this. As I said, the reservoir volume is on par with the GroBucket's.

The goal with these things is to capture water and nutrients in a reservoir, with access to air, and so the roots can inhabit the zone where the soil is saturated in the reservoir. In my design, I'm trying to maximize these goals, while at the same time keeping the build simple, inexpensive, and all components #2 HDPE plastic, cuz it's non-toxic.

 

[Azimuth]

The goal with these things is to capture water and nutrients in a reservoir, with access to air, and so the roots can inhabit the zone where the soil is saturated in the reservoir. In my design, I'm trying to maximize these goals, while at the same time keeping the build simple, inexpensive, and all components #2 HDPE plastic, cuz it's non-toxic.

That's where I started as well, trying to maximize soil and roots in the reservoir zone, but I found that kept my soil too wet so I've gone the other way with my newest NetPot SIP design.

My pots are shorter though so I have a higher relative perched water table.

I'm looking forward to your results.

 

[cbdhemp808]

That's where I started as well, trying to maximize soil and roots in the reservoir zone, but I found that kept my soil too wet so I've gone the other way with my newest NetPot SIP design.

My pots are shorter though so I have a higher relative perched water table.

I'm looking forward to your results.

Interesting. I look at these designs as basically a 5 gal pot with an aerated runoff reservoir, not so much as a self-watering system. I mean, it is a 5 gal pot, and I've grown quite a bit in 5 gal black plastic nursery pots (this design will give me 4.4 gal). The plants did reasonably well until mid to late flower, then suffered from premature senescence. Another dynamic is the development of the root zone. At some point, it really gets cookin' and will suck up the reservoir water, especially with the added air. So, the amount of water given needs to increase over time. I have a very good sense of how much water to give a normal 5 gal pot, without needing to see runoff, so can probably avoid too much water buildup early on. Also, I can use a dip-stick while learning the system. It'll be interesting for sure to test it out.

I wonder if there's such a thing with SIPs as too much growth, too soon? My clones are rarin' to flower as soon as they're moved out of the lights, so plant size in veg will be key. Surely I'll need to flower *a lot* sooner than what I've been doing.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I mean, it is a 5 gal pot, and I've grown quite a bit in 5 gal black plastic nursery pots (this design will give me 4.4 gal). The plants did reasonably well until mid to late flower, then suffered from premature senescence. Another dynamic is the development of the root zone.

SIPs are a root zone tonic. I think the funk I've seen in mid-to-late flower isn't going to happen in a SIP. Food, water, and oxygen—everyone needs 'em.

 

[Gee64]

SIPs are a root zone tonic. I think the funk I've seen in mid-to-late flower isn't going to happen in a SIP. Food, water, and oxygen—everyone needs 'em.

Do you own a refractometer? Early senescence is almost always due to either overly wet soil or low calcium. Quite often both as overly wet leads to low calcium, among other things.

It sounds like your watering is solid so I'm leaning towards calcium. A refractometer will tell you the state of your calcium. If water and calcium are good then you probably just need a bigger pot or a smaller plant.

 

[BeyondClouds]

Do you own a refractometer? Early senescence is almost always due to either overly wet soil or low calcium. Quite often both as overly wet leads to low calcium, among other things.

It sounds like your watering is solid so I'm leaning towards calcium. A refractometer will tell you the state of your calcium. If water and calcium are good then you probably just need a bigger pot or a smaller plant.

And here he goes .... @cbdhemp808 (and to all others) that might think "refractometer? Sounds interesting" ... i'll give you a friendly warning ... if you follow that Gee-Quote, you might find the Gee-Spot ... now you might think "mmmh...Gee-spot...that doesn't sound bad....was always hoping to find that happy place one day" ....i was the same when i started to catch up on this thread in May 2024 ... here is my first post

Puhh….finally i got through those 250+ pages that you guys have been filling up with knowledge (and also filling my bookmarks )

Thank you Gee for pulling up this lab. You certainly have a new lab internee right here.

And thank you Azi for bringing me here. Even though I would suggest to hand out such a recommendation with a warning like….

If you are not a coffee drinker…you will become for sure. (Sometimes it is just too hard to say „no“ constantly)

Watch out for mutants!

In case you got a life….forget it!

You all have been warned

 

[cbdhemp808]

Do you own a refractometer? Early senescence is almost always due to either overly wet soil or low calcium. Quite often both as overly wet leads to low calcium, among other things.

It sounds like your watering is solid so I'm leaning towards calcium. A refractometer will tell you the state of your calcium. If water and calcium are good then you probably just need a bigger pot or a smaller plant.

In my case I think it's bigger pot, which I figgered out by going to 10 gal plastic, but then my plants was too big cuz left in veg too long. Pots gettin' root bound, then plants don't drink properly.

Grower needs to be less lazy... or start using SIPs.