SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

InTheShed said:
Dunno about pure coco in a SIP (Vet didn't do well with it for one reason or another), but most folks in DWC will check and adjust pH daily as you do.
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Yeah it just occurred to me today. Makes no sense putting stuff you need to Ph in because in the res it changes after a few hours and pure coco won’t buffer it, right?

Sorry if this is obvious to anyone, probs everyone.

From my personal experience though - if I used a specifically “Soil” blend of nutes (in coco) I would be ok in a SIP because that seems to self buffer.

Just my thoughts from limited experience. I have an outdoor SIP ehich yeah when she looks better 😅 Photos! And my silly little solo sip.

Just having a think about what works best.

“ SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco results in a Soil Based Medium”

I tried to use SIP coco, like supercharge it - not unhappy but I wonder iif fundamentally its not suited?

Lolz - perfect solution! I’m gonna swirch my solo SIP to left over SOIL mix tomorrow. Its Veg not bloom but we ran our Bruce Banners on just this and they were great. Still with Cal Mag and Explode.

Hmm no need Ph her. High risk. Yep. Doing that.

Nick
 
I'm going to try a bit of a new design for my small container, organic SIPs since I'm finding that I'm having better results when I let them dry out a bit in between waterings than I do by keeping the reservoir full all the time.

I think at least part of the issue is that with smaller containers the perched water table sits at a much higher percentage of the total container height, leading to much less of a moisture gradient overall and leading to more sluggish, overwatered looking plants.

I've been pretty amazed that root rot is not an issue in SIPs even with the bottom inch or two of soil staying submerged in the reservoir water, and I think that is directly attributable to the air gap. So, I'm going to try extending that air chamber up higher into the soil column and see if that helps. I'll add a small, and well vented, cone-shaped container on top of my normal dome-style reservoir to bring the air chamber right up under the main root nexus and see what I learn.

The downside of course is that I'll lose even more soil volume in the process which is not ideal in an organic grow since the soil is the nutrient bank for the grow. But I figure that my small containers are too small to pack with enough minerals and nutrients to last the entire grow anyway so I already have to supplement them along the way.

My theory is that by extending the air chamber higher up in the pot, the upper, inner roots will have access to the oxygen that helps the lowers and allow for a wetter environment up there than would normally be ideal.

In addition, in an organic grow at least, it is generally advised to feed from the top which also means watering the feed from above which messes up the moisture gradient. But maybe with extra air up there, that factor will matter less than it does in a normally designed SIP.
 
That sounds perfect Azi. I'm glad you're going for it. Sips are so flexible that custom or odd shapes can be adapted, for sure. I've seen some weirdees lately, out there. Some huge fabric notills, and some teeny-tiny fabric notills. Using PVC frames.
 
Carcass said:
Thanks, RD! it's still on the collander-I'll save it!
What do I do with it?
Amend the soil for the next grow?
Add some to their feed?
I imagine that the sludge in the bottom is also good stuff, I'll save it too
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Add some to the feed. Make a concentrate out of it like a 5% solution that you can add 20 parts water too to feed or water.
NickHardy said:
“ SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco results in a Soil Based Medium”
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Otherwise it's SIP Hydro... which he can't say because it starts "Getting Hydro Results..." so it wouldn't make sense. However it is totally doable, the easiest damn thing ever and grows flippin' trees like you've never seen. What can I tell you.. Because you are a passive system in constant, non-moving contact with the nutrient there has to be a good strong buffer in place first. Which anyone can do, really. It's just life with coco or peat that's getting constant nutrient, and LEDs. We have cheap Peat/Perlite by the compressed yard here, ProMix and Sunshine Mix #4, nothing works like it. Every box store with gardening stuff has it. Go, bring us pics from the store if you're unsure. I have heavily mixed-in coco I buffered but it was plants that don't demand it like cannabis, although they were under heavy led light a long time and that really pulled it out too.
NickHardy said:
I tried to use SIP coco, like supercharge it - not unhappy but I wonder iif fundamentally its not suited?
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Not necc, buffering, a good,n, doesn't seem particularly difficult, though I've only done once. Mostly purchased buffered peat/perlite. Has the perfect perlite mix already and hardcore buffer.
NickHardy said:
Yeah it just occurred to me today. Makes no sense putting stuff you need to Ph in because in the res it changes after a few hours and pure coco won’t buffer it, right?
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That's essentially correct, I believe.
 
We’ve always used the same cooked coco peat and perlite for hydro we buy here. Its about $9.50 for 20 litres or 5.2 Gallons. No compressed stuff here. We’re one of the worlds biggest coconut producers here in Thailand!, 9th. I recommend finding the “Death by Coconut” page on wikipedia! Nakhon Si Thammarat in Thailand, (& Co’s home state) gets an honourable mention! The coconut throwing tree picture is from that.

Photo below of our stuff below. Looks like they’ve added snazzy new packaging. Before it was just in clear plastic bags in a brown box! Just doesn’t like being fed above 6.2 - but that’s the nutes recommendation to be fair. Think I run one properly, full size, I’d use the soil blend of the Dutch Nutes. Which reminds me - my outdoor SIP could probably do with some of those I have. She could just do with anything at this point 😅 Azi would have me up before a tribunal he saw her now 🤣

Nick



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Seems cheap until you’re buying 400 litres a grow cycle (used gets recycled into veg/fruit grows)

Azimuth said:
My theory is that by extending the air chamber higher up in the pot, the upper, inner roots will have access to the oxygen that helps the lowers and allow for a wetter environment up there than would normally be ideal.
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That’s pushing into aeroponics? I mean you’re not actively spraying and its organic but there are similarities?

Nick
 
I would soak that shit in a diatomaceous earth and water mix/porridge for 48 kours and then rinse it. Do you have any blue clay where you live? Its almost always the same essential composition everywhere, those parts which suit our purpose anyway, and has an incredible CEC exchange rate changing power. That's why its in face masks and zit creams, it pulls the minerals out of pores b/c its charge and composition. I've got a secret location accessible at year's lowest tide, so you always know where I'll be during those 2 hrs every year, just check the tables near me.

I think the big Canadian peat companies use diatomaceous earth, limestone (DE is limestone, but wicked-fine and buffers better) to buffer those products I mentioned, and their buffers are like the Enterprise's forward shields during act 1 and act 2, ''indefatigable" I recently said.
 
Works incredible in airpots for our normal grows. This is just speculation were I to do a couple of SIPs for fun. Our flower room is water at the push of a button from a 200L and a 100L res. Not changing to SIPs in there. This is more just a general thing. The SIP outside is a mix of coco, perlite layers and potting soil. Probably do some thing similar I do again.

Nick
 
This caught my eye:
ReservoirDog said:
DE is limestone
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Limestone is a sedimentary rock and diatomaceous earth is "made from the fossilized remains of tiny, aquatic organisms called diatoms."

"The typical chemical composition of oven-dried diatomaceous earth is 80–90% silica" and "limestone is composed mostly of the minerals calcite and aragonite, which are different crystal forms of calcium carbonate (CaCO3)."

I don't believe they serve the same purpose as an additive to growing media. The big Canadian peat companies use dolomite lime to buffer the peat in their mixes, which would otherwise be in the low 4s. I've personally never seen DE used as a buffer in peat or soil.
 
Thanks She’d, good catch. I have this Ziploc 3lb bag purchased from Amazon and it has a home computer printed out label alone. I can’t double check right this minute but will do so asap. It’s quite clear in my mind, I only used it just yesterday. So, either they mislabeled, or they’re running a scam.

I also remember that It’s tactility is like moon dust, not that this is an effective data point that makes much difference …
 
ReservoirDog said:
Shouldn't there be a low-mass, weight scale app potential for our phones, using touch screen sensors?... (so I can measure salt-nute top-ups in my SIP :rolleyes: )?:cool:
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Just get a small cheap tester with cables? They come attached with three probes on like 4ft cables. EC, Ph and Temp on screen. They’re about $10 made in China but you could add a second pipe to each SIP to drop them into periodically?

I know probably more than $10 near you - so
Probably not worth it for a one off “out of interest check”

@InTheShed - Yeah Lime is good for burying bodies in, often used up in the Hollywood Hills, dissolves the bones and and teeth and maybe DNA so as to make identification near impossible. (I read a lot of Michael Connelly et al)

Its a lot more aggressive than very neutral Silica DE looks like.

Nick
 
NickHardy said:
Just get a small cheap tester with cables? They come attached with three probes on like 4ft cables. EC, Ph and Temp on screen. They’re about $10 made in China but you could add a second pipe to each SIP to drop them into periodically?

I know probably more than $10 near you - so
Probably not worth it for a one off “out of interest check”

@InTheShed - Yeah Lime is good for burying bodies in, often used up in the Hollywood Hills, dissolves the bones and and teeth and maybe DNA so as to make identification near impossible. (I read a lot of Michael Connelly et al)

Its a lot more aggressive than very neutral Silica DE looks like.

Nick
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Er… not molecular weight or atomic weight, just weight, weight. I don’t need a “solution” per se, I have many cheap 2-dec. point gram scales.

No, I want a tricorder! I wanna be able to measure out 3 grams of powder on my phone screen, cuz it’s badass af. Lol.

I would love having someone show me how to setup a dirt cheap reservoir pH / ppm logger/monitor. Gotta have logger, be dirt cheap. I don’t mind a bit of hacking here, soldering there, if need be.

Appreciate you, mate.
 
Yep - got ya!

Its all about the seasons with growing, as the song says. For you (northern henisphere) outdoor growers, it must be all systems go?

Nick

It's springtime now and cares subside
And the plannings almost done
And fertile graves it seems exist
Within a mile of that Duke's joint
Where Coast Guard crews still take their leave
Quite listless in the sun
And the Quicklime girl still plies her trade
Reduction of the many from the one
And they call her
Quicklime girl behind her back
Quicklime girl behind the bush
Quicklime girl
Well she's the mistress of the salmon salt
Quicklime girl
Quicklime girl they call her
Quicklime girl
A harvest of life a harvest of death
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NickHardy said:
That’s pushing into aeroponics? I mean you’re not actively spraying and its organic but there are similarities?
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Not to my mind. I think of aeroponics as having the roots dangling mid air in a super moist environment, like a heavy sea fog, or spritzing them regularly with a fine mist.

My hack will be just shoving a dry air chamber further up their skirt, but still surrounded by moist (wet?) soil.

NickHardy said:
Our flower room is water at the push of a blue button from a 200L and a 100L res.
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FTFY
 
Hey y'all! Question about transplant from sip cup to sip up!

When should I do it? I've got three nodes now 21 days in from breaking soil. I want to try quadlining too, so I'll let these settle in the new containers until I have 5 nodes. Eh?

And under what conditions should both the source and destination soil be? Same medium will be used, should have the sameish EC and it's soil so ph should be the same.

I've read fill the reservoir and let the soil soak it up, then put a seed or sprout in that. Should I do the same with transplant?
 
goowa said:
I've read fill the reservoir and let the soil soak it up, then put a seed or sprout in that. Should I do the same with transplant?
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That advice is all about establishing the proper moisture gradient in the new container before introducing the plant to it. So, yes, definitely do that.

And, presuming your existing SIP is watered according to best practices, it almost shouldn't matter when you up-pot since both containers will have the same general environment, but for me the sooner the better.
 
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