Plant Alchemy With KNF: Korean Natural Farming And Jadam

[Azimuth]

Day 17 and all the clones still look as good as they did when I cut them. Still no roots yet, though. I did make an extra vented dome with additional holes for today since I wasn't around to be sure they wouldn't wilt.

The extra dome allows me to take cuts on a Sunday when I often have more time, and then put them in a humid environment that gets less humid everyday until the following Saturday when the dome comes off for good and I can pay more attention to them.

The extra dome provides an extra day from my normal process, but I think it will work out fine.

Hopefully I'll have roots soon, and then can experiment with ways to hopefully speed up the process. Warmer temperatures will be the first thing I try.

 

[Azimuth]

So, a bit of operator error on the cuttings to report. Yesterday I pulled the cover off to start them fully airing out and topped up the water bath. The cuttings all looked really good but when I came back a few hours later a couple of the cuts were drooped over. So I misted them every hour or two throughout the day and soon the others started to droop as well, so I misted them also. I have an extra cut that is next to it in a slightly different setup and it looks fine.

This morning that first set of cuts all looked like my last disaster round where the pots were sitting directly in the water bath, and the water looked like it could use some refreshing. So, I took it to the sink to change the water and noticed that I had somehow swapped out the outer container for the one I used last time with the hempy hole. So, when I topped up the water bath, that hole let in water to the inner pot and I had inadvertently returned to the old and failed method. Doh!

I switched that pot out and hopefully will be able to dry out the media enough while keeping humidity up, but this ACDC strain is pretty weak and floppy to begin with so I have a bit of an uphill battle.

But, another lesson learned. Pretty soon I'll be able to write and defend a thesis if this keeps up.

*******

Also, the 'Jadam organic nutes in hempy' experiment has been put on hold. Those plants are starting to look pretty ragged and I want to have them around when I'm able to make the nutrient mix I want from the garden, but that will be late spring at the earliest and the way these plants are starting to look, they ain't gonna make it that long. So, yesterday I reverted them back to their original nutes ph'd at 5.66. I'm hoping they green up and start to grow again so I can take cuttings and try the experiment over again with healthy plants.

*******

The rest of the plants that are in my new leaf mold mix look awesome. In fact, these are the best looking plants I've ever grown. It's still a bit cold in the cab with temps in the mid 60's during the day and rh in the mid 30's, so growth is quite slow. A few days ago I put the next plant I want to flip on a heat mat and got temps around the roots to mid 70*'s F and growth has kicked in a bit.

I am usually battling thrips by now a few weeks after up-potting, but still nothing. I think they must come in with my worm castings, but with this new version of my mix I added some neem, karanja, and crustacean powders as amendments to my mix and so far that seems to be working. That's an idea I got from Clackamas Coot. Those first two amendments are supposed to be taken up by the plant and act as systemics, and the crustacean meal encourages the microbes that feed on chitinase found in the crab shells, but is also the stuff that makes up the exoskeleton of many bugs like thrips and mites. So those microbes eat the shells of the bugs and kill them that way. The end result is similar to the way a true soap works, I imagine.

When I potted them up two full weeks ago I top dressed with about an inch of worm castings and another inch on top of that of leaf mold. Other than misting the leaf mold top covering twice a day to keep it moist I haven't watered them at all, but they all look very happy so I'll let them tell me when they're ready. Ever since I put that top dressing on, the root growth coming from that layer is pretty robust so this will be my new GoTo mix and pot setup unless something unforeseen and bad happens.

 

[Azimuth]

Microbes and rooting

It's Saturday so that must mean it's time for another experiment. This round will be testing whether or not microbes can improve the rooting process, either by helping cuts root sooner, or by producing better roots when they begin to strike.

A few weeks ago I started top dressing my plants with a layer of fresh worm castings and then covering that with a layer of leaf mold which I then mist a couple of times a day to keep moist. After a couple of weeks the amount of new, robust root growth coming out of this new layer was surprising, so I thought I'd apply the concept to my next round of clones and see how early it can be helpful.

Since it took a couple of weeks to see noticeable results on my other plants and it takes me at least that long generally to root clones, I figure the timing could be pretty good. Or the top layer could just trap too much moisture and lead to rotted clones. So let's find out.

Today I took two clones each from Blue Kush and Northern Lights 5. One of each will be done with my normal process, and the other set will be the same with the addition of the castings and leaf mold mulch layer.

I don't really need any more plants so this round is purely for science.

 

[FelipeBlu]

For science!

 

[Azimuth]

A week in on the new clones and all are looking quite happy still. The domes came off a day or so ago and everyone looks like they made it through fine so, so far, the top dressing is showing no ill effects.

*****

A couple of months ago I popped two seeds of The Black, looking for a keeper female. One was the first to come up and the other lagged badly for several days, but then it took off and is probably the healthiest looking plant I've grown yet. Makes me think it's a male.

Meanwhile, the other, the first to pop, has struggled and lately has the look of plants that have shown thrips damage. I scoped the leaves pretty thoroughly and couldn't find any although there were some little dots that were too small to identify so those could be the newly hatched version of what I'm used to seeing.

This is the only plant showing signs of pest problems and is also the only established plant that is not in my new GroMix with the added meals, so today I up-potted it from a 9oz cup to a 32oz/1L container in my new mix. Hopefully, after a good dousing with my IPM spray mix, and the new soil with the meals, this plant will turn things around. I probably do have to wait a week or so for the roots to grow out and start taking up the neem and karanja meals, but the new mix seems to be working great on all the others.

The thrips could also totally be a seasonal issue and this lagging plant was the first to be susceptible to the invaders, so we'll have to wait a few more weeks to see if the others start having damage or if the newly up-potted plant confirms the effectiveness of adding the meals either to the mix or as a top dressing.

I am also going to integrate the meals into my propagation routine. I'm going to retire my popsicle cloner and replace it with the larger 9oz cups I'm using this round, with the various dome vent options. The upgrade next round is I'm going to put my normal grow mix in the bottom third or so of the cup and then my normal cut mix in the top two thirds. Then, once the cut roots and they find the normal grow mix at the bottom, they'll have access to the stuff that has the others growing great and has the IPM bug meals built in for protection from the start.

Using the larger cups to root has multiple advantages. First is not needing to disturb the newly rooted cuts by having to up-pot the clones right away, and so should help ease the transition to growth mode. It will cut in half the number I can take at a time, but I don't need very many to begin with and usually only keep the best one or two anyway. It will also provide the opportunity to dome or re-dome individual cuttings rather than the all-or-nothing group approach I had with the popsicle version of things. So this will give me fewer rooted cuts to pick from but other than that there shouldn't be any other negatives and the new positive aspects should make a big difference.

At least that's the plan. Let's see how we do on execution.

 

[StoneOtter]

Sorry, Azimuth, but I'n sticking with the compost right in the garden instead of the JLF. I keep putting things on top of the plant area all year long to keep the microbes busy. The JMS is indispensible though! That's the missing piece in my growing experience! I used it every week, and sprayed the leaves during budrot season. Got very little on the ones I sprayed. Exceptional buds, as well! Happy Smokin'

Hi Bode. When you use it weekly, do you mix a new batch every week?

 

[Azimuth]

Hi Bode. When you use it weekly, do you mix a new batch every week?

The microbes will only last a short time before declining, so yes a new batch everytime you want to apply it. That's why I scaled it down for smaller batches with the JMS Mini-Me post. The full size version along with the Trump video is a few posts above it.

 

[StoneOtter]

The microbes will only last a short time before declining, so yes a new batch everytime you want to apply it. That's why I scaled it down for smaller batches with the JMS Mini-Me post. The full size version along with the Trump video is a few posts above it.

Yes just revisited that mini version. very useful for me! I get it . It takes a few days to get bubbling and it's best at peak bubbles. Thanks! Still very early here but I want to be ready with this one. First of June is probable my planting day.

 

[Grand Daddy Black]

Why no pics on this thread? Is there a back-story I'm unaware of?

Heckler Azimuth, you're about to get a heckler of your own!

 

[Azimuth]

Yes just revisited that mini version. very useful for me! I get it . It takes a few days to get bubbling and it's best at peak bubbles. Thanks! Still very early here but I want to be ready with this one. First of June is probable my planting day.

And it varies with temperatures. Last year when I did it around this time it took a week or more. During the summer it will be more like a couple of days. But be sure to do it out where your plants will be so you cultivate the microbes that will flourish in that environment. No sense breeding microbes that thrive in your tent if they die when they go outside.

And, no need to wait until June to start getting the soil populations built up.

 

[Azimuth]

Why no pics on this thread? Is there a back-story I'm unaware of?

Heckler Azimuth, you're about to get a heckler of your own!

Welcome, GDB!

The no pictures thing is a security issue for me.

Plus, you probably wouldn't want to see my plants anyway. I grow in a cabinet and everything is scaled way down.

 

[StoneOtter]

And, no need to wait until June to start getting the soil populations built up.

Agree! I should wait for it to thaw though.

 

[Grand Daddy Black]

Welcome, GDB!

The no pictures thing is a security issue for me.

Plus, you probably wouldn't want to see my plants anyway. I grow in a cabinet and everything is scaled way down.

Well, that makes this grow all the more interesting. I like scaled down!

(Plus there's a lot of other interesting info.)

 

[treehugger55]

------ Efficiency of KNF vs. Jadam Extracts ------

I've mentioned that I prefer the KNF brown sugar extracts to the Jadam water extracts for a number of reasons, one of which is the much more thorough extraction when using brown sugar. For those that have been wondering, below are the figures showing the differences for comfrey. Generally, sugar is many times higher than water in nutrients extracted:

....................................P..............K........Ca.........Mg........Fe.........Si.........S..........Cl.........Na.........Al...

Comfrey (sugar)...270.8.....1,025....31.52....34.15.....2.06.....15.4......8.32......80........0.58......0.31
Comfrey (water)...12.71.....113.5....12.05......5.46.....0.51.....12.0......0.41........7........1.43......0.01

.................................21.3x......9.03x.....2.62x.....6.25x...4.04x..1.28x..20.29x..11.43x...0.41x.....31x..

can you tell me what kind of sugar exactly to use for this method. I'm not sure is regular brown sugar is the same of cane sugar. Thanks for time.

 

[Azimuth]

Regular brown sugar. I get mine in the baking aisle of he grocery store. Comes in maybe 1-2 lb bags.

Use about equal parts sugar and vegetative matter by weight, mix it well, put it in a glass container but only fill 2/3 full. I often use a canning jar with a piece of cheese cloth covering the opening and then use the ring only to hold it in place (I do not add the cover so it can breathe). that set-up will allow it to do it's thing without bugs getting into the mix.

If you keep reading through the various experiments I've done, you'll see that I'm moving more to the Jadam water extracts for various reasons, but the KNF sugar extracts work great and are plant available immediately when you water them in.

 

[Azimuth]

A week in on the new clones and all are looking quite happy still. The domes came off a day or so ago and everyone looks like they made it through fine so, so far, the top dressing is showing no ill effects.

*****

A couple of months ago I popped two seeds of The Black, looking for a keeper female. One was the first to come up and the other lagged badly for several days, but then it took off and is probably the healthiest looking plant I've grown yet. Makes me think it's a male.

Meanwhile, the other, the first to pop, has struggled and lately has the look of plants that have shown thrips damage. I scoped the leaves pretty thoroughly and couldn't find any although there were some little dots that were too small to identify so those could be the newly hatched version of what I'm used to seeing.

This is the only plant showing signs of pest problems and is also the only established plant that is not in my new GroMix with the added meals, so today I up-potted it from a 9oz cup to a 32oz/1L container in my new mix. Hopefully, after a good dousing with my IPM spray mix, and the new soil with the meals, this plant will turn things around. I probably do have to wait a week or so for the roots to grow out and start taking up the neem and karanja meals, but the new mix seems to be working great on all the others.

The thrips could also totally be a seasonal issue and this lagging plant was the first to be susceptible to the invaders, so we'll have to wait a few more weeks to see if the others start having damage or if the newly up-potted plant confirms the effectiveness of adding the meals either to the mix or as a top dressing.

I am also going to integrate the meals into my propagation routine. I'm going to retire my popsicle cloner and replace it with the larger 9oz cups I'm using this round, with the various dome vent options. The upgrade next round is I'm going to put my normal grow mix in the bottom third or so of the cup and then my normal cut mix in the top two thirds. Then, once the cut roots and they find the normal grow mix at the bottom, they'll have access to the stuff that has the others growing great and has the IPM bug meals built in for protection from the start.

Using the larger cups to root has multiple advantages. First is not needing to disturb the newly rooted cuts by having to up-pot the clones right away, and so should help ease the transition to growth mode. It will cut in half the number I can take at a time, but I don't need very many to begin with and usually only keep the best one or two anyway. It will also provide the opportunity to dome or re-dome individual cuttings rather than the all-or-nothing group approach I had with the popsicle version of things. So this will give me fewer rooted cuts to pick from but other than that there shouldn't be any other negatives and the new positive aspects should make a big difference.

At least that's the plan. Let's see how we do on execution.

Day 15 and the cuts still look great, just like the day I took them. Still no roots though, although this should be the week I see some.

Today I'm going to conduct a new experiment to try to speed up the rooting process. Instead of the mixed mix in the cup strategy I mentioned in the above attached post, I'm going to try three different things. And I know that's not following appropriate scientific methods. I should be trying one different variable at a time. I know that, so don't @ me. p)

The three changes will be temperature, cup mix, and aloe. I'm going to take 4 cuts of the ACDC CBD plant today, and 2 cuts tomorrow from each of the two The Black seedlings that are just starting to throw alternating nodes which means they are sexually mature and I'll be able to sex them in the flower box once they root.

-Temperature. I've seemed to have had faster results with temperatures around 80*F. Currently my cab sits in the high 60's-low 70's. I have the cups on a heat mat but the taller cups mean the temperatures are not as warm in the rooting zone as they are at the base. So, for this round I made up a whole new batch of cups that are only 4oz and about half as tall as the 9oz cups. This should keep the overall mix closer to the temps I want.

-Cup mix. My last round was 2:1 ALM (aged leaf mold)/sand and it works pretty good. Wicks water well, drains well, and holds moisture well. All attributes I want in a rooting mix. The challenge is the sand makes it heavy and difficult to tell when it dries out and needs some water. So for this round, I'm going to do half the cuts in this sand mix, and the other half in a 2:1 ALMerlite mix which should have all the positive attributes of the sand mix but be easier to judge moisture levels by lifting the cup to check the weight.

-Aloe. I've used it in the past and haven't for the last few rounds, and they have taken a week or so longer than usual to root. Is it the lack of aloe? Don't know, so I'm going to test it this round. Like the cup mix, half the cuts get dunked in fresh aloe before sticking, half go au natural.

All cuts will go through the graduated vented dome process that seems to work very well. By taking the cuts on two successive days I only have to have one set of each of the different domes. Each set consists of 5 covers. The first is no holes, the second has one level of holes, the next two levels and so on. I have 5 different levels of domes which makes the venting and hardening off process as simple as replacing one dome with the next in the series, but really, how many of these things do I want to keep track of? Since each cup gets the next dome one day later, I can have one set that does double duty if I space the taking of half of the cuts on successive days.

All of the cuts will first get a soak in my KNF cutting solution which has aloe, kelp and willow extracts added to water. And, since I don't know yet as to whether or not the top dressing of my worm castings and ALM helps the process in any way, I'm going to leave it off this round to not complicate things any more than they are.

So, that's the plan, Stan. Once I see which of the variables I prefer, I'll use those as a base for future experiments because, you know, there's always something new to learn.

 

[Azimuth]

The stronger of The Black seedlings showed me her sex today. Pretty psyched. I had cloned her anticipating using the clone to sex the plant but now the clone will replace her in the que and the seedling will get promoted to the flower room next month.

Still no idea on the other Black or the ACDC so those may still follow the original plan of using their clones to test for sex. I'll add them to the flower room as soon as they are mature enough to flower.

Tomorrow on April 1st, I'm going to promote the NL5 plant up to the flower room. This will be a series of firsts. First legit plant in the new, larger cab flower room, first to flower in a much larger pot than I've used before, first flowering plant in my new soil mix, and first full flower run on the Jadam nutes.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[DonkeyDick]

two full weeks...I haven't watered them at all

The no pictures thing is a security issue for me.

IDK what it is about the photos that is an issue, but if you upload pictures through the 420 Mag Gallery tools so that you get a caption on the picture, thusly...

Flowers are this way

• DonkeyDick
• Feb 22, 2022

(That picture is for you,GDB. Glad to hear you’ll have a shirt soon )
... my understanding is that if you upload photos like this then metadata including geodata is stripped. It’s the only reason I’m able to share photos.

ALM

Azimuth Leaf Mold?

What could possibly go wrong?

I’ve come to ask the same question another way: what could possibly go right? It’s nuanced, but creative mofo you are I dare say you’ll find it makes a difference.

 

[Azimuth]

Hi Donkey. And welcome to my little corner of the world.

my understanding is that if you upload photos like this then metadata including geodata is stripped.

That's my understanding, too. I just can't take the chance.

Azimuth Leaf Mold?

'Aged' Leaf Mold. The process of making the final product is a cold, fungal breakdown of the material rather than a hot, fast process. It generally takes a couple of years to make, and if you use it too early it doesn't have all the properties that are desired so I like to make the distinction between what I use and something like a 6 month pile of leaves. That'll still be good, just not the stuff I'm looking for.

You can speed the breakdown process by adding high nitrogen items but then you're back to a more bacterial end product rather than the fungal one I'm after.

 

[Azimuth]

@DonkeyDick , Here you can read about some of my experiments with the ALM from earlier in the thread.