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- #181
Interesting video from BAS on their KNF and Jadam Extracts .
Plant Alchemy With KNF: Korean Natural Farming And Jadam
- Thread starter Azimuth
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- #182
Mini SIP
I have a few extra clones kicking around so I thought I'd try something I've wanted to experiment with for a while, SIP's or Sub Irrigated Planters.
Same basic concept as a hempy. I took a clear 1L take out container and made a drainage hole about 1" up from the bottom, added a 1.5" layer of hydroton clay balls, filled the rest of the way with my grow mix, planted a newly rooted Blue Kush clone, and topped with a layer of worm castings covered by ALM.
Since the clay balls are filled to a level above the hole there should be a small separation between the water reservoir and the soil although the clay balls have some wicking capabilities so the roots should find access to ample water without sitting directly in it, unless they want to form water roots.
I'm getting ready to plant the outdoor garden and am planning on making a few of these in 15 gallon buckets for raspberries, blueberries and other things. I've been intrigued with the concept for a while so I figured this will give me a chance to see how they work up close since I can see through the clear (though a bit cloudy) container and better learn how the soil, roots and reservoir work together.
I also want to see if the soil stays too soggy as it sits on a hopefully moist bed of the clay balls. I plan to lightly water the top roots every 3-4 days, and for the bottom roots I'll experiment with only watering from the bottom as well as the more traditional way of dumping the water in from the top. If things get too wet I can always let the soil dry out and then refill the reservoir after sufficient drying time.
I expect it to be at least a week before the roots meander their way down to the reservoir so figured I'd start the clock ticking today.
I have a few extra clones kicking around so I thought I'd try something I've wanted to experiment with for a while, SIP's or Sub Irrigated Planters.
Same basic concept as a hempy. I took a clear 1L take out container and made a drainage hole about 1" up from the bottom, added a 1.5" layer of hydroton clay balls, filled the rest of the way with my grow mix, planted a newly rooted Blue Kush clone, and topped with a layer of worm castings covered by ALM.
Since the clay balls are filled to a level above the hole there should be a small separation between the water reservoir and the soil although the clay balls have some wicking capabilities so the roots should find access to ample water without sitting directly in it, unless they want to form water roots.
I'm getting ready to plant the outdoor garden and am planning on making a few of these in 15 gallon buckets for raspberries, blueberries and other things. I've been intrigued with the concept for a while so I figured this will give me a chance to see how they work up close since I can see through the clear (though a bit cloudy) container and better learn how the soil, roots and reservoir work together.
I also want to see if the soil stays too soggy as it sits on a hopefully moist bed of the clay balls. I plan to lightly water the top roots every 3-4 days, and for the bottom roots I'll experiment with only watering from the bottom as well as the more traditional way of dumping the water in from the top. If things get too wet I can always let the soil dry out and then refill the reservoir after sufficient drying time.
I expect it to be at least a week before the roots meander their way down to the reservoir so figured I'd start the clock ticking today.
Sounds like shallow hempy to me. The plants will find and fill the reservoir with roots.
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- #184
That would be great. I just want to be sure the soil isn't too soggy. If it works it would be closer to how @Nunyabiz waters his organic grow with a little water each day. I think he says he does 5-10% of container volume on his.
SIPS are pretty common in the outdoor container vegetable garden scene with earth boxes and wicking containers so it should work fine I imagine, but with the clear container I should be able to visually learn what I want to know.
SIPS are pretty common in the outdoor container vegetable garden scene with earth boxes and wicking containers so it should work fine I imagine, but with the clear container I should be able to visually learn what I want to know.
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- #185
Well, well, well. How timely is this? Look what BAS just posted for the latest video in their grow series:
In it, Jeremy suggests not keeping the reservoir constantly full when using it with living soils because it keeps the mix too wet. Rather he suggests letting the soil dry out like normal and then bottom watering.
Interesting. That was one of the concerns I had about the set-up, so something for me to keep a closer eye on than I might have.
So, no changes for me yet. I didn't water the new clone in at all as I think the mix is moist enough from the ALM and I want the roots to start going out in search of more, so I'll wait until I see roots at the sides of the container and then I'll bottom water and see if the water wicks up to the top. If so, I'll be able to just do that, otherwise I'll need to do some sort of hybrid where I water just enough to wet the top roots while still letting the lowers dry out.
This should be a fun experiment.
In it, Jeremy suggests not keeping the reservoir constantly full when using it with living soils because it keeps the mix too wet. Rather he suggests letting the soil dry out like normal and then bottom watering.
Interesting. That was one of the concerns I had about the set-up, so something for me to keep a closer eye on than I might have.
So, no changes for me yet. I didn't water the new clone in at all as I think the mix is moist enough from the ALM and I want the roots to start going out in search of more, so I'll wait until I see roots at the sides of the container and then I'll bottom water and see if the water wicks up to the top. If so, I'll be able to just do that, otherwise I'll need to do some sort of hybrid where I water just enough to wet the top roots while still letting the lowers dry out.
This should be a fun experiment.
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- #186
Interesting results on the cutting mix. The ALM heavy mix is substantially outperforming the mostly sand mix, although that might be attributable to operator error. The sand mix itself is much heavier than the ALM mix and therefore harder to tell when it has dried out, while the ALM holds much more moisture for longer and is therefore more forgiving. So I may have let the sand based clones get too dry, affecting the outcome.Day 15 and the cuts still look great, just like the day I took them. Still no roots though, although this should be the week I see some.
Today I'm going to conduct a new experiment to try to speed up the rooting process. Instead of the mixed mix in the cup strategy I mentioned in the above attached post, I'm going to try three different things. And I know that's not following appropriate scientific methods. I should be trying one different variable at a time. I know that, so don't @ me.)
The three changes will be temperature, cup mix, and aloe. I'm going to take 4 cuts of the ACDC CBD plant today, and 2 cuts tomorrow from each of the two The Black seedlings that are just starting to throw alternating nodes which means they are sexually mature and I'll be able to sex them in the flower box once they root.
-Temperature. I've seemed to have had faster results with temperatures around 80*F. Currently my cab sits in the high 60's-low 70's. I have the cups on a heat mat but the taller cups mean the temperatures are not as warm in the rooting zone as they are at the base. So, for this round I made up a whole new batch of cups that are only 4oz and about half as tall as the 9oz cups. This should keep the overall mix closer to the temps I want.
-Cup mix. My last round was 2:1 ALM (aged leaf mold)/sand and it works pretty good. Wicks water well, drains well, and holds moisture well. All attributes I want in a rooting mix. The challenge is the sand makes it heavy and difficult to tell when it dries out and needs some water. So for this round, I'm going to do half the cuts in this sand mix, and the other half in a 2:1 ALM perlite mix which should have all the positive attributes of the sand mix but be easier to judge moisture levels by lifting the cup to check the weight.
-Aloe. I've used it in the past and haven't for the last few rounds, and they have taken a week or so longer than usual to root. Is it the lack of aloe? Don't know, so I'm going to test it this round. Like the cup mix, half the cuts get dunked in fresh aloe before sticking, half go au natural.
All cuts will go through the graduated vented dome process that seems to work very well. By taking the cuts on two successive days I only have to have one set of each of the different domes. Each set consists of 5 covers. The first is no holes, the second has one level of holes, the next two levels and so on. I have 5 different levels of domes which makes the venting and hardening off process as simple as replacing one dome with the next in the series, but really, how many of these things do I want to keep track of? Since each cup gets the next dome one day later, I can have one set that does double duty if I space the taking of half of the cuts on successive days.
All of the cuts will first get a soak in my KNF cutting solution which has aloe, kelp and willow extracts added to water. And, since I don't know yet as to whether or not the top dressing of my worm castings and ALM helps the process in any way, I'm going to leave it off this round to not complicate things any more than they are.
So, that's the plan, Stan. Once I see which of the variables I prefer, I'll use those as a base for future experiments because, you know, there's always something new to learn.
But, in the spirit of doing more of what's working and less of what ain't, the next round of cuts that I'll take today will be done with a heavier emphasis on ALM. The ALM seemed to hold enough moisture through the process so this round I'm going to go with a 50/50 ALM/sand mix and try that. I think the mostly sand mix would work pretty well with enough attention, but I'm looking for something less fussy and more automatic, and I'd like to get away from perlite if I can, at least for rooting cuttings.
The temperature experiment was a bust that will be retried on this next round. The heating pad never got the bottoms warm enough for me, so I'll try it a slightly different way this round.
The aloe definitely seemed to help speed up the rooting process so I will continue to use that.
So, this round, I'll change the mix slightly, and continue with the aloe dunk and try for more elevated temperatures. The graduated vented domes will also be used for the first five days.
My previous experiment with the ALM and RWC cap is so far inconclusive. Those with the cap look better and healthier, but rooting was actually a bit faster on the uncapped ones. This experiment will be done again.
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- #187
BAS - Clackamas Coot Recipe
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- #188
Best Cloning Methods with CloneCoach - MrGrowIt
Interesting info in this one. Confirms many of the lessons I'm learning in my various experiments. One change I'll make immediately is to get rid of my first, no vent holes dome, and jump right to the next one.
I may also try just cloning in my normal mix and see if that makes a difference.
Interesting info in this one. Confirms many of the lessons I'm learning in my various experiments. One change I'll make immediately is to get rid of my first, no vent holes dome, and jump right to the next one.
I may also try just cloning in my normal mix and see if that makes a difference.
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- #189
BAS/Mr GrowIt - Building Soils and Feeding
Mr GrowIt interviews Jeremy Silva from BuildASoil about building a soil from scratch and top dressings.
Mr GrowIt interviews Jeremy Silva from BuildASoil about building a soil from scratch and top dressings.
Nine Toed Hippie
Well-Known Member
Thanks Az!
NTH
NTH
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- #191
Cheers, NTH. Lots of treasures spread around the interwebs.
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- #192
I was reading more about earth boxes and there is significant emphasis from the creator placed on the air gap between the reservoir and the soil mix so I built a second SIP utilizing this concept to see if it really makes that much difference. I kind of hope it doesn't because my original version is so much simpler to build.
This latest one is more like a scaled down version of the diy double 5 gal bucket systems that are all over the 'tube. Two 1L containers with a connection piece in between them.
In it I put a sister clone of the one in the other SIP, both about the same size so it should be a pretty fair comparison. I'm thinking there's going to have to be significant improvement in growth to justify this second version, otherwise it wouldn't be worth the extra time and materials to do it that way. So, by way of full disclosure, I'm already biased.
I put a small amount of water in both reservoirs to start wetting the connecting agent, hydroton clay balls in my case. The typical wick material is simply your regular potting mix, but mine has a lot of organic material in it that I don't want to turn anaerobic from constantly sitting in water.
One other recommended material for the wicking part is coco coir so if I don't have decent results with the hydroton I'll try that instead.
On we go.
This latest one is more like a scaled down version of the diy double 5 gal bucket systems that are all over the 'tube. Two 1L containers with a connection piece in between them.
In it I put a sister clone of the one in the other SIP, both about the same size so it should be a pretty fair comparison. I'm thinking there's going to have to be significant improvement in growth to justify this second version, otherwise it wouldn't be worth the extra time and materials to do it that way. So, by way of full disclosure, I'm already biased.
I put a small amount of water in both reservoirs to start wetting the connecting agent, hydroton clay balls in my case. The typical wick material is simply your regular potting mix, but mine has a lot of organic material in it that I don't want to turn anaerobic from constantly sitting in water.
One other recommended material for the wicking part is coco coir so if I don't have decent results with the hydroton I'll try that instead.
On we go.
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- #193
Saw my stinging nettle and some dandelions popping up in the lawn this weekend so that was my cue to get my JMS Bucket going. For the next few weeks I'll do a full 5 gallon bucket each week since I want to prep my outside garden soil for the vegetable seeds I also started this weekend.
I took a 5 gallon bucket, made two small holes near the top big enough to slide a wire coat hanger through and hung a 1 gallon paint strainer bag from the coat hanger wire. In it I put my baked potato, a bit of sea salt, some leaves and sticks I found in the woods with some white stuff growing on it (the mycelium) and a big spoonful of my worm castings and filled it with rain water. I massaged the bag to release some of the goodies into the water and left the bucket in my outside garden covered with a lid.
I'll check on it daily but fully expect it'll be next weekend at the earliest before I see the tell tale signs that it is ready.
***********
Still no sign of the comfrey from last year. At the end of the season I dug it up for the roots and replanted a couple of the more robust ones. It is supposed to be almost impossible to get rid of once it is planted because it is propagated by root cuttings, but I'm wondering if somehow I've found the secret.
I did plant my stinging nettle and one of the comfrey roots in pots at the end of last season so I can more easily harvest the roots each year, so now I guess I just have to wait and watch for the early signs that I didn't somehow manage to kill off my comfrey planting.
I took a 5 gallon bucket, made two small holes near the top big enough to slide a wire coat hanger through and hung a 1 gallon paint strainer bag from the coat hanger wire. In it I put my baked potato, a bit of sea salt, some leaves and sticks I found in the woods with some white stuff growing on it (the mycelium) and a big spoonful of my worm castings and filled it with rain water. I massaged the bag to release some of the goodies into the water and left the bucket in my outside garden covered with a lid.
I'll check on it daily but fully expect it'll be next weekend at the earliest before I see the tell tale signs that it is ready.
***********
Still no sign of the comfrey from last year. At the end of the season I dug it up for the roots and replanted a couple of the more robust ones. It is supposed to be almost impossible to get rid of once it is planted because it is propagated by root cuttings, but I'm wondering if somehow I've found the secret.
I did plant my stinging nettle and one of the comfrey roots in pots at the end of last season so I can more easily harvest the roots each year, so now I guess I just have to wait and watch for the early signs that I didn't somehow manage to kill off my comfrey planting.
ReservoirDog
Well-Known Member
All caught up and on the bus! Forward! (or wherever, really... since I'm on the bus now it doesn't matter much, does it?)
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- #195
Welcome, Dog! Glad to have you aboard. We go down lot's of rabbit holes in this thread so, if you're into that sort of thing, it shoud be a fun ride.
ReservoirDog
Well-Known Member
The rabbit holes are the main attraction. I've really enjoyed and benefitted from your process, successes and failures in this thread thus far. I'm new to Jadam and its forbear, KNF, which I discovered while researching the fermenting compost method this winter when another member mentioned it in passing (thnx again @Bill284). The history is fascinating. Reading that one family reinvented farming, twice... well, I was hooked right there. That each was seeking to solve his generation's primary farming challenge, Senior who wished to end hunger, and Junior to decouple the farmer from the Agricultural Industrial Complex and its consequent financial burden... I mean, wow. I should think a Nobel prize is in the offing at some point, provided the agri-conglomerates don't work to torpedo the idea, which of course they will.
A few weeks later I found myself in a grocery store staring, slack-jawed, at a price sign for romaine lettuce: "$10.00/head". On the spot, I decided to completely redevelop my SW-facing, level, front yard and focus totally on food production. Screw curb appeal. I just have had enough of this insanity. I'm 48 but ended my career already 10 years ago due to MS and consequent issues, and so I don't have the money to be a part of consumer-culture. OK, I loathed it even when I was working. Anyway, after immediately slashing out all of the pretty shrubs and flowers in my front yard, I've been building 3+ foot -waist-high, 5 foot wide beds. Thankfully, over the last 3-5 years I've been burying leaf mulch and a shovel full of dirt in garbage bags for later retrieval -sheerly out of an inability to do much else with it and an appreciation of its potential. My backyard is on a steep grade falling to a creek/intertidal thingy and over the last few years I've built a whole terrace from these leaf bags buried under whetted shredded paper and planted with salal. So I unbuilt the terrace and my new beds are being topped with a serious layer of this leaf mould and a few years worth of worm castings that have been piling up.
I've started my indiv. nitrogen and phosphorous pails but wasn't expecting to be able to use them until next year... I don't have the Jadam book, and have been taking my JMS, JMF fertilizer brewing and Lactus bacillus husbandry how-tos from Bare Mountain Farms youtube channel. I am eager to understand better what these short-turnaround concoctions are that you are making. I'm going to go to the park today and see if the comfrey is strong enough for me to take some transplants, and take some harvest to start a new bucket. Thanks for your efforts, and I'll be happy to share anything I can but I'm really just building my foundation at the moment. Really love your thread. Best regards.
A few weeks later I found myself in a grocery store staring, slack-jawed, at a price sign for romaine lettuce: "$10.00/head". On the spot, I decided to completely redevelop my SW-facing, level, front yard and focus totally on food production. Screw curb appeal. I just have had enough of this insanity. I'm 48 but ended my career already 10 years ago due to MS and consequent issues, and so I don't have the money to be a part of consumer-culture. OK, I loathed it even when I was working. Anyway, after immediately slashing out all of the pretty shrubs and flowers in my front yard, I've been building 3+ foot -waist-high, 5 foot wide beds. Thankfully, over the last 3-5 years I've been burying leaf mulch and a shovel full of dirt in garbage bags for later retrieval -sheerly out of an inability to do much else with it and an appreciation of its potential. My backyard is on a steep grade falling to a creek/intertidal thingy and over the last few years I've built a whole terrace from these leaf bags buried under whetted shredded paper and planted with salal. So I unbuilt the terrace and my new beds are being topped with a serious layer of this leaf mould and a few years worth of worm castings that have been piling up.
I've started my indiv. nitrogen and phosphorous pails but wasn't expecting to be able to use them until next year... I don't have the Jadam book, and have been taking my JMS, JMF fertilizer brewing and Lactus bacillus husbandry how-tos from Bare Mountain Farms youtube channel. I am eager to understand better what these short-turnaround concoctions are that you are making. I'm going to go to the park today and see if the comfrey is strong enough for me to take some transplants, and take some harvest to start a new bucket. Thanks for your efforts, and I'll be happy to share anything I can but I'm really just building my foundation at the moment. Really love your thread. Best regards.
Hope you had a great weekend my friend.
Garden is amazing.
Can't wait to see it overflowing.
Stay safe
Bill
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- #198
The book is great, it's just written with the small farmer in mind and I've had to scale down most things for my use as you've seen throughout the thread.
Master Cho says the Jadam ferments are ready to start using within a week or two at most, and then just get better with age. He suggests starting ferments now for next year, but I start a new batch each season.
Be careful on the comfrey from the park. I don't know of a way to tell just by looking at it if it is sterile or not. The variety I have is called Bocking 14 and is supposed to have some of the highest levels of the active things in it, but others can be a real nusance because the natural plant speads by seeds and the tap root makes it almost impossible to get rid of. Imagine having thousands of plants started from seed that you can't dig out. Could be a real nightmare.
Here's the original Comfrey post where I talked a bit about the good and bad.
In the next few days I'm going to post about my plans for the upcoming season and the plants and ratios I'll be using, but they're all from stuff growing (now) in my yard. I started stinging nettle from seed last year. Most people can't understand why I would do that.
ReservoirDog
Well-Known Member
edit: Happy 420, 420!
I have to put in here for the comfrey, esp. fresh poultices and salve. Many years ago I worked as a kayak guide for a true pioneer of the biz/activity and we typically took couples and small groups on deep wilderness, unsupported, 7 day trips. As the junior man, my boat would be 'pre-packed' with all the heavy essentials by base commander, Mrs. Kayak-god. Usually, she left me personal space enough for fresh socks and undies, while hubby was loaded with all the fresh baked goods. Before launch on my first big trip, I took issue with the well over 500ml (1/2 quart) of comfrey salve I was burdened with. (ugh, I still feel like a jackass). Rebuffed in no uncertain terms, I carried a little black cloud with me over the issue until our first meal break, whereupon I concocted my subterfuge. An old, repetitive-use injury was already starting to redevelop (ok, "old", relative to a 25 yr old jackass), so I figured might as well start lightening the comfrey load right then and there, and slathered it, like cream cheese, on my shoulder, my elbow,.... We ran out on day 6 of 7, at breakfast. Seriously, I was concerned enough about facing a possible revolt on the way home that I made sure the stainless 10 gauge was in my boat, such had become our dependence on the miraculous yellow sludge. My boss let me sweat it all the way to our lunch camp, before producing a brilliantly yellow toothy grin and a second jar of salve he'd guilefully taken with. Consider me hazed. That stuff made all the difference between waking without crippling pain from prev. day paddling, ready to meet adventure - or freezing into a fetal position in one's sleeping bag overnight, dreading each and every merciless mile on the next day's itinerary. The latter isn't typically a great look for guides, you understand. The paying customers usually started joking about how to possibly mainline the salve by day 3, even day 2. So, Comfrey salve, good. ReservoirDog, longwinded. I'll settle down soon, promise.
I have to put in here for the comfrey, esp. fresh poultices and salve. Many years ago I worked as a kayak guide for a true pioneer of the biz/activity and we typically took couples and small groups on deep wilderness, unsupported, 7 day trips. As the junior man, my boat would be 'pre-packed' with all the heavy essentials by base commander, Mrs. Kayak-god. Usually, she left me personal space enough for fresh socks and undies, while hubby was loaded with all the fresh baked goods. Before launch on my first big trip, I took issue with the well over 500ml (1/2 quart) of comfrey salve I was burdened with. (ugh, I still feel like a jackass). Rebuffed in no uncertain terms, I carried a little black cloud with me over the issue until our first meal break, whereupon I concocted my subterfuge. An old, repetitive-use injury was already starting to redevelop (ok, "old", relative to a 25 yr old jackass), so I figured might as well start lightening the comfrey load right then and there, and slathered it, like cream cheese, on my shoulder, my elbow,.... We ran out on day 6 of 7, at breakfast. Seriously, I was concerned enough about facing a possible revolt on the way home that I made sure the stainless 10 gauge was in my boat, such had become our dependence on the miraculous yellow sludge. My boss let me sweat it all the way to our lunch camp, before producing a brilliantly yellow toothy grin and a second jar of salve he'd guilefully taken with. Consider me hazed. That stuff made all the difference between waking without crippling pain from prev. day paddling, ready to meet adventure - or freezing into a fetal position in one's sleeping bag overnight, dreading each and every merciless mile on the next day's itinerary. The latter isn't typically a great look for guides, you understand. The paying customers usually started joking about how to possibly mainline the salve by day 3, even day 2. So, Comfrey salve, good. ReservoirDog, longwinded. I'll settle down soon, promise.
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- #200
Great story! Did they make it themselves do you know?