Plant Alchemy With KNF: Korean Natural Farming And Jadam

[Gee64]

Ok, so just put the grow on hold for a while to let it finish?


I can use coco as the fresh carbon source, I was just trying to use inputs more local to me. What else are options (knowing coco is the best)?

I'm not sure of what else to use besides coco. Outdoors I only use leaves and indoors its coco.

Think how it works outdoors tho. You add leaves to your garden beds and 6 months later some are still there, some are barely there, and some are gone, so if you recycle your weed soil then use coco as your immediate carbon AND add say 15% leaves too.

Do that each soil rebuild and up the leaves and lower the coco.

You will get that one figured as too much leaves and it stays too wet, and eventually you will become fully powered by leaves, with only some coco added as needed.

But leaves got bugs.

I hate bugs.

No leaves allowed inside my house other than outdoor weed leaves ran thru my worm farm.

Did I mention coco works pretty good indoors? Its swell

 

[Bode]

Highya Azimuth, Gee, guys,

I read an atricle about making a circle of wire and filling it up with leaves. During last summer, I put the excess Jadam Microbe solution on the compost pile, and it went noticeably down. It has leaves in it. I'm going to try that next fall. Happy Smokin'

 

[Azimuth]

I'm not sure of what else to use besides coco. Outdoors I only use leaves and indoors its coco.

Looks you leave me no choice. Like literally. You have no other suggestions so I guess I'm going with coco.

So, now back to the mix in aggregate. Here's my proposed mix:

1p Leaf Compost
1p Worm Castings
1p Coco
1p Old Soil
1p Sand
1p Biochar
2p Perlite/Pumice

Each part is 12.5%. Organic inputs are 37.5% (compost, castings,and coco) and aeration is 50% (sand, biochar, and perlite).

What do you think?

 

[Gee64]

Looks you leave me no choice. Like literally. You have no other suggestions so I guess I'm going with coco.

So, now back to the mix in aggregate. Here's my proposed mix:

1p Leaf Compost
1p Worm Castings
1p Coco
1p Old Soil
1p Sand
1p Biochar
2p Perlite/Pumice

Each part is 12.5%. Organic inputs are 37.5% (compost, castings,and coco) and aeration is 50% (sand, biochar, and perlite).

What do you think?

I think it looks good.

It may be a bit wet from the leaf compost and ewc but I'm not personally familiar with sand and biochar, which could help offset the extra water holding.

Not a dealbreaker, just something to keep an eye on and may require extra perlite but otherwise Heck Yeah! I would try that.

I tried to find the list of all carbons and their values but couldn't. When I do I will get it to you.

 

[Azimuth]

Well, sand is a common aggregate used to lighten up heavy clay soils and brings silica to the party, and the biochar are like small (1/2") nuggets spread throughout that hold water and microbes.

I think I'll give that mix a go, but first I need to make the leaf compost. I'll get on that today.

 

[Gee64]

Be wary buying coco. You want a brand that has been rinsed with fresh water. They use a lot of salt water producing the coco, otherwise you have to rinse it yourself. I use Canna Brand Organic coco.

 

[Azimuth]

Ok, thanks. Will it say "pre-washed" on the bag or does one have to be 'in the know'?

 

[Gee64]

Lots of people survive quite well using molasses as a carbon source.

I personally don't like it as you get better smoke with coco, but it does work well and molasses has some good nutrients in it too.

You should see what KNF/Jadam has for a molasses replacement. It would likely be a great rescue tool to have on hand.

Also you are probably thinking adding coco will water your nutrients down and your already in small pots. Remember, once you remove water from a plant 47% of the dry matter is carbon, 43% is oxygen, 3% is hydrogen. Thats 93% right there. The minerals etc are only 7% and yet we put so much effeort into that 7%.

Worry more about the 47% carbon part. You have enough minerals already I'm sure. If not its an easy adjustment to up them at cooking time or topdressing.

Also remember that nitrogen used during the grow is not the same nitrogen you added at composting.

The greens added at composting have become plant food and are now proteins and aminos, not available nitrogen.

All aminos and proteins are nitrogen but all nitrogen is not protein and aminos.

Thats why the nitrogen cycle allows nitrogen from both the air and thru the soil.

The nitrogen required during the grow comes from the air. Nitrogen created thru the soil web is only to let the soil reclaim the aminos.

Once composting is complete then atmospheric nitrogen becomes enough to power the plant thru the grow, just as nature does without us trying to interfere.

So now you have 2 sides to calcium, 2 sides to carbon (3 counting the exudate system), and 2 sides to nitrogen. That should help you straighten things out.

If you are still a bit foggy on one part or another, go watch that video I posted awhile back, yet another time. Read some soil recipes. Knowing both sides to the big 3 allows you to better process the "why" of certain recipe ingredients.

Composting uses carbon to process your proteins and aminos, fresh carbon feeds the microbes, nitrogen is free from the air, calcium structures it all and supplies the electricity.

Don't overlook magnesium. Mag is an asshole but you need it so things like dolomite or molasses supply it in abundance.

Calcium keeps mag in check.

All the rest is less than 7% AND you get to choose it.

Its the dual personalities of Calcium, Carbon, and Nitrogen, plus our slang references like "Fish ferts! yeah! thats some good nitrogen!", When they should say "Fish ferts! thats some good proteins and aminos!" that keep us confused and spending.

 

[Gee64]

Ok, thanks. Will it say "pre-washed" on the bag or does one have to be 'in the know'?

I did my research online and found Canna brand. I think you need to figure it out yourself. The guy at the grow store will always tell you what you want to hear so he can get the sale.

 

[Gee64]

If you were to pulverize fresh dried leaves in a blender you may be able to make them work in your mix, just cut them 50/50 with coco. Grind them until they are textured like coco.

The sooner you get leaves into your soil the better if you eventually want to use them. They will fortify your used soil for sure.

 

[Gee64]

This all kind of brings me full circle on the worm castings. I used to add fresh castings as a significant portion of my mix but dropped them just before switching to SIPs because it seemed like I was getting thrips and mites every time I up-potted. I've started drying them a bit and don't seem to have the issue, at least as much.

To raise brix you need 5 things. Carbon, Phosphorus,Calcium, Oxygen, and microbes.

High brix repels pests instead of attracting them. If you were low on carbon you were low on brix.

They go hand in hand.

See if extra carbon gets the bugs out.

 

[Azimuth]

I did my research online and found Canna brand. I think you need to figure it out yourself. The guy at the grow store will always tell you what you want to hear so he can get the sale.

Ok, and I assume there's no harm done to rinsing an already rinsed lot. That way I can be sure.

 

[Azimuth]

If you were to pulverize fresh dried leaves in a blender you may be able to make them work in your mix, just cut them 50/50 with coco. Grind them until they are textured like coco.

The sooner you get leaves into your soil the better if you eventually want to use them. They will fortify your used soil for sure.

That's a great idea. I think I'll run them through a 1/2" screen first to get a more normalized size and see how that looks. Not crazy about the conversation needed to use the kitchen blender.

 

[Azimuth]

To raise brix you need 5 things. Carbon, Phosphorus,Calcium, Oxygen, and microbes.

High brix repels pests instead of attracting them. If you were low on carbon you were low on brix.

They go hand in hand.

See if extra carbon gets the bugs out.

That sounds like a win/win! I'd even take no bugs without an increase in brix, but sounds like it's the brix level that deters them. I remember watching a video on brix a year or so back and they made the statement that above some magic threshold the bugs look elsewhere.

 

[Gee64]

Ok, and I assume there's no harm done to rinsing an already rinsed lot. That way I can be sure.

 

[Gee64]

That sounds like a win/win! I'd even take no bugs without an increase in brix, but sounds like it's the brix level that deters them. I remember watching a video on brix a year or so back and they made the statement that above some magic threshold the bugs look elsewhere.

Yup, and for weed the magic number is about 13. Above that and bugs aren't a problem. Not plant eating ones.

 

[Azimuth]

Yup, and for weed the magic number is about 13. Above that and bugs aren't a problem. Not plant eating ones.

Ah, lucky 13. That's an easy number to remember!

And that's mostly for flower, correct?

 

[Gee64]

Ah, lucky 13. That's an easy number to remember!

And that's mostly for flower, correct?

Yeah, if your potions can get you there sooner tho thats worth exploring. Easy tracking for you now.

 

[Gee64]

Compost Calculator

The Urban Worm Company's Compost Calculator creates a recipe to find the perfect carbon-to-nitrogen ratio for compost and vermicomposting.

urbanwormcompany.com

Azi,
Here is a link to a carbon:nitrogen calculator. The dropdowns have your greens and browns. You access the dropdowns by clicking on the ingredient box.

Add the ingredients to the list and manually enter their number from the dropdown lists. Ex. coco is 90:1 so 90 is entered in the valueunit field.

You can add in an entire shopping list and if your ingredient isn't on the list google its C:N ratio and add that number in. Then balance it with final ingredients.

I mix my coco 50/50 with used soil to add to my worm farm, so by doing that it cuts its value to 45, and adding equal parts veggie scraps I get a 30:1 ratio of C:N.

The actual coco is still 90:1 I just use half the amount, and 90 is a good number for a steady slow burning compost carbon. Cutting it in half with dirt doesn't speed it up but when its finished you have cut it in half by volume with the dirt and it comes out balanced when finished.

Leaves are a fair bit trickier as no 2 types of leaves have the same carbon value, but leaves have a bunch of once or twice already digested minerals in them so they are worth the effort.

You could skip the used soil and just double the greens too, but I want the minerals in my mix to get eaten repeatedly, and I don't get that from leaves as I don't use them indoors.

I based my decisions on a starting point of 50% used soil in my carbon mix, so all my carbon values are half of what stated by volume.

Hopefully this will help you moving forward. Balancing carbon is an essential thing to have dialed in, and by dialed in I mean in the ball park.

If you get close to 30:1, then when its "finished" its actually finished, and not just stalled and waiting for fresh nitrogen or carbon to show up to refire the composting process.

The ratios in both the greens and browns list are very educational.

Try thinking of browns and greens as carbs and proteins, as they actually are carbs and proteins. Then just build a balanced diet that ends up close to 30:1.

You quickly see in the list that coffee grounds are almost perfect by themselves, but at a density that low they won't last thru an entire grow.

They decompose quickly which is why they get put in compost piles. We often refer to coffee grounds as high in nitrogen, but what they really are is lower in carbon, making them nitrogen heavy on the ratio.

You may also think "Bark at 500:1 is a mega-carbon. I could just use a bit of bark instead of a lot of coco". Thats true but at 500:1 Bark is dense and won't come close to releasing its carbon in a manner condusive to composting. It takes years not weeks or months.

This is all about the composting half of carbon, not the feeding the microbes half.

When it comes to feeding the microbes, carbon is carbon but at too high a density the microbe/fungii can't eat it quick enough to multiply like crazy, and too undense, like coffee grounds and it becomes volatile and COULD actually start to compost with atmospheric nitrogen as light carbon doesn't require a lot of protein to ignite.

Carbon is the hardest part to wrap your brain around, but organics loosely translates into "of carbon base" so carbon is the big player.

Carbons biggest problem is it should be C-N-P-K but its not directly a plant food, its a microbe food, so no one talks about it.The Man can't market leaves in a manner that will make you buy it. Plants literally get their carbon from thin air.

If you apply this to your diet, two thirds carbs, one third proteins by volume on your plate YOUR brix levels will rise and weight will fall.

Its a balanced meal.

Then you just find carbons and proteins that supply good without the bad (pick your poison) and YOUR brix will go over the human equivalent of 13.
Its almost like plants are a balanced diet.

Weird hey?

 

[Azimuth]

Thanks, @Gee64 ! This is quite timely as I'm starting to get my leaf composting station going today and I'm re-reading some of my composting references.

I'm trying something right now, and that is a small scale composting set-up using a 5 gallon bucket. I'm not sure it's going to work since most of the composting reading I've done says you really need a pile at a minimum of a yard/meter squared which is needed to allow the pile to heat up.

So, what I did was I filled a 5 gallon bucket with my partially finished leaf mold plus enough fresher fall leaves to fill the bucket and mixed in my last 6oz of my comfrey crumble. I was going to wait to see if the pile started to heat up in a day or two, but plugging the numbers into the calculator says I'll need a gallon of kitchen scraps as well so I'll add those in the coming days along with some JMS made from my fresh castings. I'm going to try two methods, the first with my normal potato flakes and the other with molasses and see how they compare.

Then I put that bucket into a larger container and stuffed dry leaves in between them to act as insulation, similar to the way hay boxes can serve as thermal cookers. Would be cool if it works.