- Thread starter
- #521
I just read about 10 articles (not Posts) that all say to flush with 7.0 pH'd water & then feed nutes at the correct pH. I was flushing wrong as I was pH-ing to 6.4.
Photos, Soil, Mars Hydro Grow
- Thread starter Buds Buddy
- Start date
Emilya will tell you that the pH of the water you flush with doesn't matter. Who are you going to believe?
"Also, flushing is not going to mess up your soil pH... soil pH has nothing to do with that. When you flushed with 6.3 water, all you did is set the pH temporarily to that of the water... it takes months of pouring water into a buffered soil to even start to wear away the buffers and change the soil pH. Just make sure you set your pH to 6.3 on every incoming fluid, and you will be fine"
Source
"Also, flushing is not going to mess up your soil pH... soil pH has nothing to do with that. When you flushed with 6.3 water, all you did is set the pH temporarily to that of the water... it takes months of pouring water into a buffered soil to even start to wear away the buffers and change the soil pH. Just make sure you set your pH to 6.3 on every incoming fluid, and you will be fine"
Source
- Thread starter
- #523
No. Everything going in should be at 6.4. Anything coming out should be between 6.0 - 6-8 max high & low pH for nutes. If it doesn't come back between there it needs to be flushed & corrected.
That's how I see things (or should say ... that's what I've read). These are scientific studies that I'm reading & not just someone posting it.
PE636
Well-Known Member
Well this is getting silly. Why would flushing have to be done at ph 7? Did the scientists explain this? Were these scientists actually hipster cannabis journalists who never grew anything but like pasting together bits of info to make clickable content? Cite?
- Thread starter
- #525
Can someone point me to a scientific article that says all this about flushing & not something that some other grower posted their opinion on ? I can show you at least 10 articles that say different.
Anyway, I'm not looking to argue about this so let's just forget about it. I'm going with what I read & if I F - up it's on me for not listening. Only 1 way to find out for myself is to try it & see. What I'm doing isn't working well so I'm going to try what has worked well for me in the past using MC instead of the nutes I usually use.
When I fed tonight I lost another 10 - 12 leaves on the Gorilla Girl & the same with the Afghan. Only this time even some of the light green bottom leaves just fell off. No tug or anything ... just fell off from the watering cup touching them. So something is definitely wrong.
Anyway, I'm not looking to argue about this so let's just forget about it. I'm going with what I read & if I F - up it's on me for not listening. Only 1 way to find out for myself is to try it & see. What I'm doing isn't working well so I'm going to try what has worked well for me in the past using MC instead of the nutes I usually use.
When I fed tonight I lost another 10 - 12 leaves on the Gorilla Girl & the same with the Afghan. Only this time even some of the light green bottom leaves just fell off. No tug or anything ... just fell off from the watering cup touching them. So something is definitely wrong.
You're aware that ProMix is buffered to ~5.7 right? Peat based products are buffered to the mid-high 5s and soil in the mid 6s. That's the pH of the medium, unrelated to what you feed it with.
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- #527
They say it's because 7.0 is Neutral & that is the starting point to correct the pH. I have to admit that's the 1st time I ever heard that one.
PE636
Well-Known Member
@Buds Buddy that's a load of baloney. You would need to add or remove the buffer from the medium to change its ph. Or add enough water to react with it and use it all up but that will take quite a while unless your water is terrible. I have a pdf that explains buffer index better than I ever could, I'll try to post it up tomorrow I gotta call it a night. Good luck with whatever you do though. Seriously.
- Thread starter
- #529
No idea about Pro Mix. Never used it. I only use FFOF or Happy Frog soil. So if soil is buffered in the mid 6's & I'm feeding in the mid 6's I should get run off pretty close to the same ... correct ?
I realize it drops a little but should come back kind of close I would think. If not I would think there's salt build up throwing the pH off & need to flush. The 1 plant that came back 6.4 run off has no issues. Kind of hard not to think the pH is not an issue because of this. Anyway, Feeding at 5 gr. at 6.4 now & not going to flush again. What happens, happens.
When I fed I checked Tap water & it's 6.9 pH. After adding 5 gr. MC it dropped to 5.8 pH. Added pH up to bring it to 6.4 & fed the plants. 1st time I ever had to use pH up. Most nutes I've used raise the pH. For some reason MC is doing the opposite. Weird Shit !!!
- Thread starter
- #530
Thanks !!!
Different nutes brands will affect the pH of the solution differently, and feel free to pH your nutes if you want to. But the actual science is that measuring the runoff of your nutes doesn't tell you about the pH of the soil, which is the only thing that matters. If the pH of your soil has drifted enough then it could definitely cause plant problems, but you 100% cannot tell that by checking your nute runoff.
You don't have to believe me, but the scientific (not nute manufacturer descriptions) documents from agronomists or research institutions show that the way to test your mediums pH is with a slurry test (easy and cheap) or a pour through test (more expensive and more time consuming).
If your actual scientifically correct pH tests show that your soil is still where FoxFarms put it (mid 6's), then pH is not your problem. If it has strayed beyond the 6.3-6.8 range, then pH could be your problem. And the way to fix that is to soak the pot in a solution designed to raise or lower the pH of the soil depending on which way you need it to go. If there weren't a plant in the pot you would blend something into it, but that doesn't work at this point.
You don't have to believe me, but the scientific (not nute manufacturer descriptions) documents from agronomists or research institutions show that the way to test your mediums pH is with a slurry test (easy and cheap) or a pour through test (more expensive and more time consuming).
If your actual scientifically correct pH tests show that your soil is still where FoxFarms put it (mid 6's), then pH is not your problem. If it has strayed beyond the 6.3-6.8 range, then pH could be your problem. And the way to fix that is to soak the pot in a solution designed to raise or lower the pH of the soil depending on which way you need it to go. If there weren't a plant in the pot you would blend something into it, but that doesn't work at this point.
Black Thumbs
Well-Known Member
I’ve had a few plants do the same as what your is doing using different nutes and also different media(canna terra)
Once I started feeding to around 1L run off after doing a mini flush this seemed to stop happening
Not saying it’s going to work for you but the next few grows I kept doing this and never had it happen again
Once I started feeding to around 1L run off after doing a mini flush this seemed to stop happening
Not saying it’s going to work for you but the next few grows I kept doing this and never had it happen again
Tom Sawyer
Well-Known Member
What pennywise said. I would back off your nutes and feed maybe 3gr after a week or two of just water PH to around 6.2. Reason being that maybe the lower PH water will break down some of the already present nutes into something the plant could use or maybe your flushing would eventually remove the higher levels of nutes causing your issue. Either way, I would stop the nutes for at least a week and when I did start back, use much less. Like 2.4-3.0 then slowly move up if needed. And only feed once a week.
Tom Sawyer
Well-Known Member
Yes. Water suppliers do put stuff in their supply for several reasons. They will use chlorine naturally, for disinfection and sometimes they get it a little hot due to a recent pipe line repair where outside water invaded the inside of the pipes. Yes it happens all the time during repairs. That’s why we see sand and grit too. When treating water we also use coagulants to settle out “floaties” and suspended particles. A popular one is Ferric sulfate. It’s rusty red looking liquid that is used in small injected quantity during the treatment process to settle out and suspended stuff. That usually settles out into the bottom of a large clarifier and the sludge created is drawn out from the bottom of the stilling well/sump area of the clarifier. This polishes up the visual clarity and the actual quality of the water and removes most suspended organic particles. We also use liquid polymers. They basically do the same thing. There are several different types and do just as good a job. But you don’t usually see polymers being used in potable water treatment, just wastewater treatment as there’s way more “solids” to remove. The bad news is that Chlorine is still in use in many wastewater plants in this country. But they use Sulfer Dioxide to neutralize the chlorine before finally leaving the plant and entering the effluent stream. Usually the level must be less than 0.10ppm to enter an effluent stream or body of water. But in potable water, I’ve seen an average of 2.00ppm-5.5+ppm in potable water. Ive also experienced PHs of 9.0+ in potable water. My average tap water here at the farm always runs hot on PH 8.5+ and Chlorine 2.3-5.0+ppm. If you can smell the chlorine to the point it reminds you of a swimming pool, it’s hot. Probably over a 2.5ppm. Chlorine can’t be good for a plant when it’s hotter than 5.0ppm. However, I can’t say that I’ve seen grass or weeds die because the water being applied to it had too much chlorine in it. At my facility, we’ve had water overflows where the chlorine dose was over a 5.0ppm. The plant life in the area simply didn’t care. But it was such a large area and the weather was warm so the chlorine dissipated relatively quickly. The solution to pollution is dilution. Just remember that.
PS I forgot to tell you the good news. Many wastewater treatment plants are switching from chlorine and sulfur dioxide disinfection processes, to much safer ultraviolet light disinfection. Huge channels with large banks of ultraviolet light bulbs sometimes 6 feet long in rows of 20 banks of 30 or 40 bulbs of very powerful ultraviolet light that kills and sterilizes anything that passes through the channel. Yes. We have to wear PPE to be around these systems. And if you think your light bulbs for growing are expensive cheer up. Just one of our light bulbs costs anywhere from $80- $120 A PIECE. And they burn out all the time. Or one of our employees decides to drop or step on one. Anyway. Just thought you guys would like to know a little about your potable water and the methods used to treat that water and the wastewater that you generate every day down your drains to the wastewater collections systems. (Sewers).
Tom Sawyer
Well-Known Member
YES! Your PH meter needs to be kept in proper storage solution and you need to calibrate it before each use. We use 3 step calibration. 7buffer(yellow), 4buffer(red), and 10buffer(blue), at our facility to calibrate our lab meter during every bench test. We have two tests a shift. Each lab test must calibrate their meter with this method and record the %, slope, and temp and time of calibration and if the buffers have been changed that day. They change buffers several times a week to keep the buffers fresh. You can find these buffers on Amazon. You can also find the storage fluid on Amazon. Just make sure you’re buying it from a lab company and not an individual. Quality is critical when it comes to using your buffers to calibrate your meter. It also helps to have a high-quality meter. I spent about 60 bucks on mine here at the house. But the one we have at our facility costs closer to $500. You won’t need that kind of lab gear. The $50-$60 one does just fine. And you will know a good one when it has a storage for the storage solution to keep your probe wet.
- Thread starter
- #536
You just might be right. Spent hours & hours researching this last night & I've narrowed it down to either N def. or Mag def. I'm leaning toward Mag def. because the leaves have got a light green vein pattern on the leaves. The other reason being these 2 plants just had an N tox about 2 weeks ago.
The problem is I can't increase MC to fix the Mag def. If I do I'm more than likely right back to an N tox.
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- #537
I'm pretty sure you are right. Not sure how to fix it without getting another N tox. though.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Then logically, its not N def or N tox. Also, with the large amounts of Mg coming in with MC, I seriously doubt it is Mg def. But that is ok... explore every option other than the one that I have given you over and over again... and since I have seen so many of them, even in my own plants, I am very confident in still saying it is a K lockout. But that is ok... you have already decided that since we cant come to an agreement about this, it is better to give up on MC. I get it.
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- #539
According to everyone here you feed MC in soil the same way you do Coco. Feed every time & no plain water. Don't know if this is Bro-Science or not but it says the same thing on the bag of nutes.
I'm seeing MC the way I see LED companies advertise their lights. It's a 2000 watt light & only pulls 250 watts from the wall. They say all you need is MC .... I think that's B.S. I think you have to use the BE, SC & CalMag for this shit to work right. So now you're back to several products instead of just 1 simple step.
Fastass419
Well-Known Member
I'll stick with my soil and just water it sounds like there is to much guess work with this MC