Osmocote Plus Plant Food: Discuss Its Use With Cannabis Here!

In your garden, dynamite appears to be.....DYNAMITE!

While I'm really feeling your frustration of a 22 week bloom period......I'm really happy you've tried the DM. I've maintained all along that it could work as good or better than the OC+, and I believe your results suggest that if you anticipate high temps in the garden, DM may be a better choice.

I'm running OC+ in 15 pots
I'll run a custom organic mix in 15 more
and I think I'll try some DM and some OC 14/14/14 in a few others.

I am confident all of them will work, and my temps for the last week have been textbook perfect. It should be a good little trial.

yes i owe it to you for my flowering now. thank you for showing me this way of growing. i now think its was the nutes the whole time, take a look at my thread for my reasons, to lazy to type it again.

i am sure the temps are changing everything between the two, so it would be good to see your results. it will also be cool to see the 14/14/14 OC vs the 13/13/13/ red DM.. thats a close one their..

i also do believe this test that i am doing is kinda good so we can see how they react in the heat..

check out my thread and give your opinion on my post about it being the nutes please.. love to here feedback on this.
 
Here's my definition:

Daytime canopy:
82 with Co2 enrichment, 78 without. 50-60 rh during veg, 40-50 during bloom. Some tropical sativas may be happier a bit warmer, but these temps will work well with everything.

Nightime:
All my reading says a temperature drop of 15 degrees is favorable, will keep your plants from stretching too much and will allow the terpenes to develop.....so that means 65-67 at night. I run my rh at 50% at night.

I really tried hard to justify the 90 degree temps, because I was having problems before I got my room dialed in and canopy temps were 88. So I read, and searched, and read some more and decided that my plants would not be as healthy at those temps....even though biomass might have increased in some.

My most recent grow is a bit larger than my previous ones, and I wasn't going to settle for anything less than optimal conditions.

Optimal environment with good feeding=best product possible. That's the bottom line.

not to start stuff but i think you have it backwards. you dont want a 15* drop. the less drop at night the less they will stretch the more drop the more they stretch..
 
It's the other way around, Doc.

Grhn Env: Temperature

Greenhouse Temperature
J. Raymond Kessler, Jr.

DIF
Over the last 40-50 years, plant height has been controlled using chemical growth retardants. Concerns about the environment and human health has lead to efforts to control plant height using other means. Recently researchers have uncovered a practical relationship between plant height and day/night temperature. This relationship can be expressed as the difference in the day and night temperature, abbreviated DIF:

DIF = day temperature (DT) - night temperature (NT)

For example, DIF values of +10°, 0°, and -10°F are derived from 70°F DT - 60°F NT, 65°F DT- 65°F NT, and 60°F DT - 70°F NT, respectively.

The principle of DIF can be applied in the greenhouse to control plant height and reduce the need for chemical growth retardants.

— The primary effect of DIF is to influence internode elongation. A negative DIF may influence the biosynthesis of GA3 since spray applications of GA3 can cause normal internode elongation under negative DIF.

— Plant height can be decreased by decreasing the day temperature or increasing the night temperature or both. Achieve a close to zero or negative DIF. Conversely, to increase plant height, increase the day temperature or decrease the night temperature.

— The magnitude of the response to DIF is not the same across all DIF values. The increase in internode length as DIF increases (more positive) is greater than the decrease in internode length as DIF decrease (more negative).

— The difference in the day and night temperature determines internode length regardless of the absolute day or night temperature.

— DIF works best when plants are in a rapid stage of growth. Response to DIF is rapid, often as soon as 24 to 48 hours.

— Extremely negative DIF can have adverse affects on plants resulting in yellow foliage. If a negative DIF is applied for a short period and plants are returned to a positive DIF, green color usually returns to the leaves. However, young seedling treated for an extended period may remain yellow and stunted.


— DIF affects internode elongation, plant height, leaf orientation, shoot orientation, chlorophyll content, lateral branching, and petiole and flower stalk elongation.

Temperature Drop

During warm times of the year, dropping the day temperature close to the night temperature may not be possible throughout the day. Recent work has shown that a temperature drop or rise for 2-3 hours at the beginning or end of the light period has a strong affect on internode elongation. In the greenhouse a temperature drop is usually applied by turning on the fans and/or opening vents 20-30 min. before dawn then returning to a normal venting pattern 2-3 hours later. This sensitivity during specific points in the photoperiod may be related to endogenous rhythms.​

sorry i didnt see this Doc..

Grower Z thats a very nice post, and once again you came threw with great info.. thanks.

ive always been told a little different. well kinda.. ive already read/been told that the temps should stay close to the same during day/night. the less temp drop the less stretch.. seem to work good for me in the past.. but maybe ill have my friend with the A/C give this a try sometime
 
Check out these DM/OC+ girls..

the middle and left side are DM plants. and the far right side plants are OC+

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Somewhat off topic on this thread, you can PM me if you like Horse. I can tell you all about them. Just Hit me up I can share.

Don't mean to sound rude...sorry if it sounds that way bro!

-Go
 
wow!
That's very enlightening.....
I didn't look this up, I merely took the advice of an experienced friend, who specifically told me that high day temps and a smaller temperature drop leads to stretchy plants, because the growth rate increases with temperature.

This info isn't quite saying that....if I read it right it says lower day temps and higher night temps decrease stretch, which seems logical if higher temps=higher metabolism. :reading420magazine:

So, what do you think of my temps and what do you think are optimal temps?

I can create a stable environment anywhere from 64-90 degress in my current set up.

DIF is only part of the equation, another is the Q-10 effect regarding overall plant biosynthesis in relation to temperature. In some ways they're competing factors. Here, read this:

Why You Should Never, Ever Forget The Q10 Effect

Growing-on at Cooler than Optimum Temperatures

This also ties back into our good dear friend, Phytochrome. Have a couple of slides for ya:
-----

DIF_Q10_1.jpg


DIF_Q10_2.jpg


DIF_Q10_3.jpg


DIF_Q10_4.jpg


DIF_Q10_5_r.jpg


-----

When using DIF it seems best to keep the difference to 5C or less - if one's trying to reduce stretch. And - cooler average temps overall will slow down all plant growth - including response to factors such as DIF.

You might want to ask bel on what he's planning to do, also - I understand he's going to be playing with this very thing in his garden soon.

Hope that helps,

-TL
 
DIF is only part of the equation, another is the Q-10 effect on overall plant biosynthesis in relation to temperature. In some ways they're competing factors. Here, read this:

Why You Should Never, Ever Forget The Q10 Effect

Growing-on at Cooler than Optimum Temperatures

This also ties back into our good dear friend, Phytochrome. Have a couple of slides for ya:
-----

DIF_Q10_1.jpg


DIF_Q10_2.jpg


DIF_Q10_3.jpg


DIF_Q10_4.jpg


DIF_Q10_5_r.jpg


-----

When using DIF it seems best to keep the difference to 5C or less - if one's trying to reduce stretch. And - cooler average temps overall will slow down all plant growth - including response to factors such as DIF.

You might want to ask bel too - I understand he's going to be playing with this very thing in his garden soon.

Hope that helps,

-TL

Thanks for these excellent articles! I'm going to raise my night temps a few degrees.

excellent stuff!

After a few cycles in this room, I think I'll be tinkering with an infrared heater on a timer.....

I look forward to where all this leads in a year!

Thanks so much for what you post! + reps!
 
I run my grow from 7 PM to 7 AM and night period during the actual day. So, my plants' "night" temps get elevated naturally. I've also had very stable temps in the area lately with only a delta of about 8 degrees Centigrade between the min and max. I just don't know when during the day the min and max actually occur in my tent though I could estimate that.
 
6 to 6.

Good timing works well with natural daytime/nighttime cycle, only the plants live in the opposite. hehe

It works swell!

-Go
 
and another environmental factor is VPD.

Maybe it's not so much the temp. alone as it is the combination of temp. and humidity. I've since stopped fighting against humidity in the grow room unless it gets way up to 75% which is extremely rare here. In fact, I bought a little Humidifer for the veg room.

Relative Humidity in Greenhouse Tomato Production

Relative Humidity in Greenhouse Tomato Production
It is unclear to what extent high vpd is deleterious to the plant, assuming that adequate water is available, but vpd's over 1.0 are considered to be too high. In Northern Europe and the cooler areas of North America, vpds over 1 kPa are rarely seen but in most US greenhouses and some summer production situations in northern latitudes with continental climates, vpds will sometimes exceed this range. A greenhouse temperature of 26°C and relative humidity of 60% would result in a vpd of 1.35, for example. High moisture deficit results in small, thick, 'hard' leaves. If plants transpire more water than can be supplied through the roots, blossom-end rot may develop in the fruit and stomates may close, resulting in poor growth.​

these two sources use different numbers to express VPD, but the chart below makes it easy to see what they're both talking about.

Argus Controls

Argus Controls Environmental Control Systems Greenhouse Control Systems Climate Control Systems

VPD Application Note (PDF: 702 KB) - Full version of our paper on understanding and using VPD

VPD is a good indicator of plant stress brought about by either excessive transpiration (high VPD values) or the inability to transpire adequately (low VPD values). While plants are affected by changes in the surrounding air mass, they can also actively affect this same air mass. Whenever plants increase their own rate of transpiration a local decrease in the VPD will occur as the surrounding air absorbs this evaporated moisture.​
There is also an associated cooling effect as the process of water evaporation absorbs a lot of heat. This cooling will further reduce the water holding capacity of the air mass and thus lower the VPD value.​
VPD Does Not Measure Plant Water Use!​
VPD can only tell you about the potential for water to evaporate from the leaves. There are several other factors that affect water transport including salinity in the rooting media, root health, and whether the leaf stomata are opened or closed. Although the actual rate of water loss is not directly proportional to VPD, there is a general relationship. It can tell you whether the crop is experiencing drying conditions and you can then make some assumptions based on this.​
When the VPD is too low (humidity too high) plants are unable to evaporate enough water to enable the transport of minerals (such as calcium) to growing plant cells, even though the stomata may be fully open. Therefore, a VPD target threshold can be used to influence ventilation and/or heating equipment used to increase the VPD by reducing the air moisture level.​
When the VPD is too high (humidity too low) the rate of evaporation from the leaves can exceed the supply of water into the roots. This in turn will cause the stomata to close, and photosynthesis to slow or stop. Once the stomata close, the leaves are at risk of high temperature injury since evaporative cooling is reduced due to the lack of water to evaporate​
To avoid injury and death from wilting, many plant species will either curl their leaves or orient them downward in an attempt to expose less surface area to the sun. This can significantly downgrade the quality of potted and foliage plants and can also reduce the growth rate and quality of vegetable crops.​
The ideal VPD range varies with the crop species and the stage of growth. The table below indicates VPD values in millibars at various temperatures and humidity levels. Although the values do not change, the interpretation of the numbers will vary for each crop species, the stage of growth, cultivation methods, crop acclimatization, and local conditions. We have arbitrarily selected the green shaded area (approximately 5.0 to 12.0 mb) as being ideal for an imaginary crop. The yellow areas indicate an acceptable but marginal VPD range and the red areas are either too high or too low. Again, you need to make your own interpretations for your crops.​

another non technical way to think about this is look at the amount of plant growth in a desert as a compared to a rain forest.
 
Well Doc, I got the OC+. I mixed in the front of the buckets about three inches into the perlite and watered. The reason for putting all of it up front is the fact that I am going to scrog them. I won't be able to get the watering wand around the main stem once they grow. I got 5 fem White Russians from serious seeds and 6 fem BLZ Bud seeds from Seedism. My screen is going to be about 15 inches from the top of the buckets and my light is going to be 3 ft from the top of the screen with a 1000 watt hps. Dimensions of the screen are 4ft wide and 7ft long. My girls are on their third and four set of leaves so I figure they should be getting some roots into the lower reaches of the 2.5 gallon buckets they are in.The good thing is my temps in the tent are about 82.5 daytime and 75 to 78 at night with a rh of 50 to 55. I am going to be using my tap water which runs around 280 to 310 ppms and ph is at around 7.8 to 8.1. Two questions. First: How far should I lower my ph? Second: Do I add any supplemental nutes to the plants during veg or bloom? I have been using Superthrive only to this point since they were babies. Hope to hear from you soon.
 
power cost less at night.

Hey Doc do you think it might be a good idea to flush my OC+ girls since my temps are high? maybe it would help leach some nutes out if they are dumping out from the heat.. whats ur thoughts?

That's an interesting idea!
Why not try flushing with RO, and then putting a bunch of ice cubes on top of the medium? That should lower the temps a bit, and keep the nutes from dumping too fast....if indeed that's what's happening.

How hot is your room these days?
 
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