Osmocote Plus Plant Food: Discuss Its Use With Cannabis Here!

so none of you guys use a Digi PH pen? only soil test kits or pool kits?? IDK i never had as good as results using those they have always been not as accurate for me..

and i disagree that he dosent need to adjust his PH. 8.0 is very high and the fact that he's using a soiless mix i dont think will help.. maybe the OC+ changes things or something but i dont see how because its not all chelated..

maybe its different with the OC+? but i know with FF or GH you would be into trouble with PH that high
 
I think the promix bX has a good buffer, a good amount of lime and something else I believe to help keep PH in check. The nice thing is I transplant frequently and just before flowering, so the plants always have a new load of buffer soil. If that makes sense.

I dunno what to do...gotta find some RO water...will distilled work???
-Go
 
Not to intrude, just wanted to thank all the Trail-Blazers in this particular field for turning me onto this Hempy-OC+ idea. My winter grow is about to begin and this simple plan seems perfect for my needs.
 
I think the promix bX has a good buffer, a good amount of lime and something else I believe to help keep PH in check. The nice thing is I transplant frequently and just before flowering, so the plants always have a new load of buffer soil. If that makes sense.

I dunno what to do...gotta find some RO water...will distilled work???
-Go

dosent Pro Mix have Peat moss?? i know SS#4 dose.

Good luck with every thing bro hop it works out for the best.. keep me posted..

keep that PH in mind. remember 1000's of people PH their water for cannabis and have no trouble just fat ass buds.. i am not talking about other trees or anything els, just cannabis. ask any grower that pulls massive buds if he PH his water. I truly wish i didnt have to PH my water, i would be so happy. and i agree 100% that the water quality is important but still believe PH should be adjusted especially in Hydro or a soilless mix. a PH pen is the only way to do it accurate IMO..


now if you have Peat moss in ur PM then it might be helping you because it will lower the PH.. you should check ur run off and see where u stand.

at the end its ur plants and do what make sense to you.. good luck brother hope the laddies get better.
 
I use a cheap Milwaukee PH600 to check and adjust PH.

Glad I do too.

A week ago, I'm checking my tap water's PH and it's dropped from 7.0 to 6.4.

I rechecked, same thing.

Calibrate the meter, check again, still 6.4.

Next day, it's back to 7.0.

The city I live in blends water from two different sources, so things could be very stable for a long time, then it changes without warning.

I think I caught them on a day they changed the blend, and they hadn't made all the adjustments.

I never knew stuff like this happened until I started using my PH meter regularly.

It's a PITA to do, but my plants are doing better than when I wasn't checking.
 
I use a cheap Milwaukee PH600 to check and adjust PH.

Glad I do too.

A week ago, I'm checking my tap water's PH and it's dropped from 7.0 to 6.4.

I rechecked, same thing.

Calibrate the meter, check again, still 6.4.

Next day, it's back to 7.0.

The city I live in blends water from two different sources, so things could be very stable for a long time, then it changes without warning.

I think I caught them on a day they changed the blend, and they hadn't made all the adjustments.

I never knew stuff like this happened until I started using my PH meter regularly.

It's a PITA to do, but my plants are doing better than when I wasn't checking.

i agree my plants always do better when i check the PH..

i noticed the same thing with my water, but its lower in the winter time then in the summer time.. sometime it changes time from time.. it can really mess with you!! when i 1st started using the Lucas Formula i never had to adjust the PH, then next thing i know i check the water and its way up to 7.5 or something and it was never right again, so i was back down to adjusting the PH.

so Milwaukee's good? ive always wondered what one was reliable and you didnt have to calibrate all the time? Milwaukee, Hanna, or Oakton witch i have.. to be honest when i 1st got it i had to calibrate it all the time.. now its goes forever and stays true.

thanks for sharing that water and PH info its good to know info.
 
The addition of lime is to RAISE the medium pH to counteract the influence of ammoniacal nitrogen and other sources that tend to LOWER the pH.

Peat also tends to be acidic, and so the lime helps balance that out.

But if your water is highly alkaline, and you have lime in your medium, you're gonna have a really tough time.

Regarding pH:

It's true that lots of pot growers pH their water. No doubt about it, especially if they're in hydro.

However, there are some really excellent growers who don't, and have massive, dank, sticky buds. It all has to do with all the factors added up together.

I pH'd the water in my hempys....but didn't bother in soil. I'm not pH'ing the water in my current grow....there's no point in it. The soil has powerful buffers that will handle a wide range of pH in the water.

I mean, think about it. What are you doing when you adjust the pH of your water? You're adding something to it.....either OH or H....hydroxyl or hydrogen....base or acid.

When you add water to a bunch of dirt, you're adding something to the water....either OH or H.....the pH will change accordingly.

It's all about the total alkalinity....not the pH.

Here's an experiment for someone who has lots of spare time:

Take a gallon of RO water.....check pH. Add one drop of pH down....mix and check again. Then, run the water through a pot of organic soil mix and check the pH of the runoff.

Do the same thing with un pH'd RO....check the pH of the runoff.

They will be the same!

Do the same thing with tap water...get the same results.

So, why pH the water?

The trouble comes in when the bicarbonates build up in the medium from highly alkaline water.
 
The problem with not PH'ing in soil is that soil goes acidic over time, so by bloom, when the plants would benefit from a slightly higher PH than in veg, they get the opposite.

Most nutes will lower your PH significantly. FFOF nutes, for instance, drops my PH from 7.0 to 6.4 or so, which combined with the soil going acidic over time, would give me yellow leaves and some P lockout indicated by red petioles, which I could never correct no matter what I did because adding more P doesn't help if it's locked out.

If soil didn't tend to go acidic over the course of a grow, then checking PH would be superfluous, but that hasn't been my experience.

If I used the same soil, same containers, and the same nutes all the time, I'd play with adding different amounts of lime at the get-go to see how much I would need to keep the soil sweet through the course of a grow, and then forego using the PH meter.

but dats not how I roll, lol
 
Thanks guys....I know I am retarded because I cannot get this to sink...

So I need TA to be around 40-and 100 being on the high end.

As far as PH goes? Do I check the runoff? Do I check the water?

Doc says runoff won't matter with this this and that, but others test runoff. Not to doubt you just trying to clarify things...

Thanks for ALL your help guys...it means lots!
 
Thanks guys....I know I am retarded because I cannot get this to sink...

So I need TA to be around 40-and 100 being on the high end.

As far as PH goes? Do I check the runoff? Do I check the water?

Doc says runoff won't matter with this this and that, but others test runoff. Not to doubt you just trying to clarify things...

Thanks for ALL your help guys...it means lots!

The advice I'm giving you is definitely not the traditional pot growing point of view.

Nevertheless, I know some growers, one of them with 35 years of experience, who does not pH water. Another grower, who has a presence on the Internet, is Uncle Ben. He's a living legend.....he laughs at and mocks people who pH their water in soil.

Again, if the soil is set up right...correct amounts of lime, vs. organic matter....you don't need to pH the water.

But, if you want to do so anyways....it will hurt NOTHING. Go right ahead and do it.

On the other hand, if your TA is high you'll have trouble, whether you pH or not.

Each of us has to decide what they want to do and how they want to grow. The plants are adaptable and hardy.

I don't want to be contentious, so I'll drop this whole topic. If anyone wants to see how my methods work, just watch my journal. I probably be putting pics up weekly.
 
The problem with not PH'ing in soil is that soil goes acidic over time, so by bloom, when the plants would benefit from a slightly higher PH than in veg, they get the opposite.

Most nutes will lower your PH significantly. FFOF nutes, for instance, drops my PH from 7.0 to 6.4 or so, which combined with the soil going acidic over time, would give me yellow leaves and some P lockout indicated by red petioles, which I could never correct no matter what I did because adding more P doesn't help if it's locked out.

If soil didn't tend to go acidic over the course of a grow, then checking PH would be superfluous, but that hasn't been my experience.

If I used the same soil, same containers, and the same nutes all the time, I'd play with adding different amounts of lime at the get-go to see how much I would need to keep the soil sweet through the course of a grow, and then forego using the PH meter.

but dats not how I roll, lol

ia gree 100% and the same thing happens to me without PHing things.. ive never once had trouble Phinh things.. maybe if we were growing a plant that last for over a year or something? but our plants finish so fast i dont see PH down hurting the soil..
Thanks guys....I know I am retarded because I cannot get this to sink...

So I need TA to be around 40-and 100 being on the high end.

As far as PH goes? Do I check the runoff? Do I check the water?

Doc says runoff won't matter with this this and that, but others test runoff. Not to doubt you just trying to clarify things...

Thanks for ALL your help guys...it means lots!
Bro you have to chose what makes sense to you.. everyone is going to have different opinions on things.. their more then one way to cook eggs.

i just stick to what has been working for me for the longest time. from what i have seen several times is if ur PH isnt dialed in you will get things locked out and have a big mess if its not corrected.. you can add lime stone to help with the peat moss but good luck finding to correct dosage. ive been growing in the same medium as you for years and i know what works to get good yield.. but at the end of the day its ur plants and ur choice how to take care of them.. why dont you do 1/2 of them the way Doc says and 1/2 the way i said and see what comes out ahead at the end? then you will know.

I dont want to get into a debate over this. everyone has their own ways and they both work good for that person... you have to test things out and find out for yourself whats works best for your setup.. theirs plenty of ways to do things you just need to find out what works for u. Good Luck
 
If you guys think this is an argument, you never had dinner at my house growing up ;).

Lots of impassioned opinions, lots of decibels, and the enjoyment of spirited discussion, which is all that's going on here, from my perspective.

It's not about who's "right", it's about taking what I want and leaving the rest.

For my part, what I believe about growing isn't static, so I might even disagree with myself in the future, lol.

Is it mandatory that we all agree on everything?

I'd find that more than boring.
 
I'm just trying to figure it out. lol not trying to agree or disagree...

I don't get it. lol it sucks! I just want to water the damn things....

-Go
 
All the best oldtime growers i know still do not ph their water.
Most of my friends having troubles seem to fret over ph.

Most nutes now a days are chelated and buffered anyways....But bad TA can still fuck that up.
 
If you guys think this is an argument, you never had dinner at my house growing up ;).

Lots of impassioned opinions, lots of decibels, and the enjoyment of spirited discussion, which is all that's going on here, from my perspective.

It's not about who's "right", it's about taking what I want and leaving the rest.

For my part, what I believe about growing isn't static, so I might even disagree with myself in the future, lol.

Is it mandatory that we all agree on everything?

I'd find that more than boring.
i agree i just dont want to step on any toes..
All the best oldtime growers i know still do not ph their water.
Most of my friends having troubles seem to fret over ph.

Most nutes now a days are chelated and buffered anyways....But bad TA can still fuck that up.

i can say the same thing bro.. ive seen many growers runine a crop from not PHing.. and i have seen some really killer crops from Phing water.. Shit i have always PHed my water and had great results until my Ph got off because i didnt have the water PHed right.. the only true way to tell is do a side by side and see what dose best.. i have never ever seen one MJ crop go to shit from over PHing and i would love to see one.. just one.. now water quality is very important also i dont disagree one bit.. but i still feel you need to have things PHed on certain nutes and mediums.. ive ran the Lucas Formula and never had to PH my water because the nutes made the water come out perfect. but i dont believe for one min that someone that has PH of 8-9 dosent have to PH or 3-4 dosent have to.. their are times when PH water is needed..

not all university study are always correct and their not taking about a PH sensitive crop like MJ.. their are tons of plants you can give shit water with no PHing and they will do fine. do u think my mom checks the water on her roses or PH it? no but put a MJ plant right next to it with the same water and it will go to shit..

i would love to see one crop that failed because they PHed their water? i can finds 100's of them that have because they didnt..

i am not saying ur guys way will not work but i want to see proof not just one university saying this.. i have never seen one MJ plant not go right from PHing the water.. i am not saying its not possible but i just never seen it..

A side by side would tell us everything.. no one please take any offence to me, but i am just saying my opinion on things and what works for me..

now maybe if you have a mom plant and never flush her then something could possibly happen over a very long time period.. but how long dose it take for PH to effect ur medium?? and what do the side effects look like from over Phing? how do you know its the PH???? I think more people need to worry about all the nutes and additives they put into their plants and medium and having an effect then some PH up or down IMO

no one please take any harm towards my opinion this is just my opinion and i am not saying its the only way to do things, just having a good talk with some smart growers and trying to understand different methods..
 
but how long dose it take for PH to effect ur medium??

pH Management and Plant Nutrition, Bill Argo - Part 2 Water Quality


To compare the effect of water pH or alkalinity on the ability to raise pH (or neutralize acid) in a medium, 50 ppm alkalinity (which is a low alkalinity) would be similar to having a water with pH 11 (i.e. an extremely high pH). A water with a pH of 8.0 would have the same effect on substrate pH as an alkalinity concentration of only 0.05 ppm (i.e., almost nothing).

Argo literally wrote the book on this.

Understanding pH Management

For Container-Grown Crops by William R. Argo and Paul R. Fisher You asked for it and now you've got it All you ever needed to know about pH. Bill Argo and Paul Fisher, authors of the 13-article pH series in Greenhouse GrowerTM, have repackaged the series into a full-fledged, 64-page book, Understanding pH Management For Container-Grown Crops. Based on the latest plant nutrition research, this book is a necessity for every greenhouse and nursery operation. Offering detailed descriptions and solutions for day-to-day nutrition problems, accompanied by comprehensive color charts, graphs, photos, and a full glossary of pH and EC related terms, Understanding pH Management For Container-Grown Crops is available from Meister Publishing for the most affordable price in the industry.​

edited: My opinion is that a lot of people *using RO water (no one in particular here, but across the internet forums)* see the effects from overfeeding and the environment in their grow rooms as "pH problems".
 
Water alkalinity has a big effect on substratepH.
When it comes to managing the pH of a
substrate, the alkalinity concentration has a much
greater effect than does water pH. Alkalinity (calcium
bicarbonate, magnesium bicarbonate, and sodium
bicarbonate) and limestone (calcium and magnesium
carbonate) react very similarly when added to a
substrate. And just like too much limestone, the use of
irrigation water containing high levels of alkalinity can
cause the pH of the substrate to increase above
acceptable levels for healthy plant growth.

For example, a limestone incorporation rate of
5 pounds per cubic yard will supply approximately 100
meq of limestone per 6 inch (15-cm) pot. Applying 16
fluid ounces (0.5 liters) of water containing 250 ppm
alkalinity to that 6 inch pot will supply about 2.5 meq of
lime. That does not sound like much until you consider
that after 10 irrigations you have effectively increased
the limestone incorporation rate by 25%. Even if you
are using a completely inert substrate, the liming effect
that high alkalinity water has will cause your substrate
pH to increase to unacceptable levels.

Don’t ignore water pH.
Water pH is still important for crop
management. Even though it has little impact on the
substrate, water-pH does affect the solubility of
fertilizers,
and the efficacy of insecticides and
fungicides before you apply it to the crop. Generally,
the higher the water pH, the lower the solubility of these
materials.

Water testing is only a starting point
Obtaining a water test is an important first step
in determining if your fertility program will work, or if
you need to reevaluate. Most water sources (with the
exception of rain water) are susceptible to change. In
commercial greenhouses, it is recommended to do a
water analysis at least once a year, either to make sure
that the water source is not changing, or if it is
changing, to make adjustments in the nutrition program.
Equally important is understanding how your
fertilizer affects pH and nutrition by itself, and through
its interaction with your water. Next issue: fertilizer.

I learned that in college chemistry, and re-learned it in my first year of botany. Then forgot it....and re-learned it when I started this amazing hobby.

What Argo and Fisher are saying isn't merely opinion, or tradition. It is fact, based on measurable, repeatable science.

I'll say it again....pH is not important. Total alkalinity is.

Believe what you want to believe folks....as for me, I can't help taking a scientific approach....it's what I've been doing for 30 years.

Get the science right, and the art and intuition take on a whole new meaning.
 
This is a perfect plan bro...

Could I possibly resolve my issue without having to add RO and that stuff too?

OC+ Just add water! :blunt:

If my PH was 8-9...whew...

-Go

The problem with not PH'ing in soil is that soil goes acidic over time, so by bloom, when the plants would benefit from a slightly higher PH than in veg, they get the opposite.

Most nutes will lower your PH significantly. FFOF nutes, for instance, drops my PH from 7.0 to 6.4 or so, which combined with the soil going acidic over time, would give me yellow leaves and some P lockout indicated by red petioles, which I could never correct no matter what I did because adding more P doesn't help if it's locked out.

If soil didn't tend to go acidic over the course of a grow, then checking PH would be superfluous, but that hasn't been my experience.

If I used the same soil, same containers, and the same nutes all the time, I'd play with adding different amounts of lime at the get-go to see how much I would need to keep the soil sweet through the course of a grow, and then forego using the PH meter.

but dats not how I roll, lol
 
This is a perfect plan bro...

Could I possibly resolve my issue without having to add RO and that stuff too?

OC+ Just add water! :blunt:

If my PH was 8-9...whew...

-Go

If you're growing in soil.....and your TA is within spec....there is absolutely no reason you couldn't water with pH 8 water. The soil has more than enough buffering capability to handle that....no problem.

On the other hand, if your TA is high, watering with pH 6.5 water is going to create nothing but trouble....because the bicarbonates build up in the medium.

The only time I'd pH water is if I was growing in a sterile medium, like perlite. The reason is because perlite has zero buffering ability and the nutes won't be available at a high (or low) pH.

But in soil, there is no need to adjust pH....the soil does that for you. Just think of a pot of soil as a great big batch of pH down. Except, instead of adding soil to water to lower the pH, you're adding water to soil.

Again, if the soil is rich in organic matter; guano, worm castings, blood, bone meal, kelp, etc. the pH is going to be very low. So, you add some dolomite lime to stabilize it. If your water is really alkaline....add less lime and water the pots a few times before you plant, in order to let the alkaline water raise the pH a bit.

Or, better yet, mix tap with RO to get the TA in check.

Now, the following is my opinion. What I said up there ^ is fact, but my OPINION is:

Soil growers overfeed, over water, have poor environments and all sorts of other problems and instead of taking it personally, that they F'd up their plants.....they blame it on pH.

There are millions of normal folks who grow vegetables in their backyards who never even considered pHing their water. Most public water companies provide water that is able to grow plants in soil. It's up to us to provide the soil.
 
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