Osmocote Plus Plant Food: Discuss Its Use With Cannabis Here!

[go green]

Well said Doc...

Love it.

I savvy the TA thing, and the difference between it and PH.

Thank you so much! Sorry it took so long to grasp it! Thank you thank you!

Will someone look at this and tell me if this would work for an RO system?

https://www.wattspremier.com/products.php?product=One-Piece-Manifold-(WP%2d5)-Reverse-Osmosis-System

-Go

 

[Doc Bud]

Well said Doc...

Love it.

I savvy the TA thing, and the difference between it and PH.

Thank you so much! Sorry it took so long to grasp it! Thank you thank you!

Will someone look at this and tell me if this would work for an RO system?

https://www.wattspremier.com/products.php?product=One-Piece-Manifold-(WP%2d5)-Reverse-Osmosis-System

-Go

That looks like a great RO unit.

 

[go green]

And this takes care of ta correct?

If so...done. Easy shit.

 

[IrishBoy]

so i am guessing its best to plant ur soil then water and check run off then mix a little Lime at a time until you get a good PH before even planting ur plants? i think soil is allot more forgiving then a soiless mix for sure.. but what worries me is GG is using a soiless mix.. ive never mixed in lime and the peatmoss is a bitch sometimes on the SS#4 mix, but its also sometimes helps to balance out the PH is ur tap water is high kinda balances things out a little IMO.

Ive been wanting to try my buddies water machine its like $2000.00 and its filters all the bad and leaves all the micros in the water, you can also adjust what PH you want.. shit i cant remember what their called?? but its good water with lots of O2 in it.. just allot of money but some of the best water u can drink from what i was told..

 

[Doc Bud]

And this takes care of ta correct?

If so...done. Easy shit.

That will solve the alkalinity issues.
However, RO is devoid of minerals that plants need. A rich organic soil would have those...but could run out in bloom, so if you use RO water, make sure you also use a good micronute mixture in your soil.

Micromax, by Scotts is a good one. There are others.... but you gotta have those minerals!

Of course, you could always mix the RO and tap.....find the ratio that works best.

 

[Doc Bud]

so i am guessing its best to plant ur soil then water and check run off then mix a little Lime at a time until you get a good PH before even planting ur plants? i think soil is allot more forgiving then a soiless mix for sure.. but what worries me is GG is using a soiless mix.. ive never mixed in lime and the peatmoss is a bitch sometimes on the SS#4 mix, but its also sometimes helps to balance out the PH is ur tap water is high kinda balances things out a little IMO.

Ive been wanting to try my buddies water machine its like $2000.00 and its filters all the bad and leaves all the micros in the water, you can also adjust what PH you want.. shit i cant remember what their called?? but its good water with lots of O2 in it.. just allot of money but some of the best water u can drink from what i was told..

The best way to do it would be to:

1.)get water tested
2.)build a soil based on the water. The pH of the soil being known, there are tables that tell you how much lime to add.

A quality soil is designed in such a way that it will buffer a wide range of pH.

I'm making my own mix, based on these ideas and borrowing from what expert pot growers use....and then I ran across this:
Power Flower Soil - Plant It Earth

It's pretty much perfect for my current operation. My local hydro shop carries it. No nutes needed until maybe late in flower for a longer flowering strain.

 

[Setting Sun]

Don't mean to belabor anything, but what I responded to was the statement, "you don't need to PH in soil".

In the course of the discussion, this statement seemed to evolve into, "you don't need to PH in soil if you amend your soil properly."

I am in complete agreement with the amended statement .

 

[IrishBoy]

Don't mean to belabor anything, but what I responded to was the statement, "you don't need to PH in soil".

In the course of the discussion, this statement seemed to evolve into, "you don't need to PH in soil if you amend your soil properly."

I am in complete agreement with the amended statement .

yes that changed my whole point of view and i know for a fact that his is true.. but i was under the impression before that just in any medium you dont need to PH unless if its perlite.. as long as ur water TA is good and no PH range matters. ..

put if you soil is balanced out with ur nutes then of course you dont need to PH. I agree 100%.. but i dont believe thats what was being said yesterday? or i was reading this wrong and taking it the wrong way?

 

[Doc Bud]

yes that changed my whole point of view and i know for a fact that his is true.. but i was under the impression before that just in any medium you dont need to PH unless if its perlite.. as long as ur water TA is good and no PH range matters. ..

put if you soil is balanced out with ur nutes then of course you dont need to PH. I agree 100%.. but i dont believe thats what was being said yesterday? or i was reading this wrong and taking it the wrong way?

Ah....now I see what all the hub bub was.

All along, I've been pHing in hempy.....perlite. But not in soil, for the reasons we've been discussing.

A good soil will adjust pH all by itself.....and nearly all of them will do it right out of the bag.

Hyrdo is different....

I do think a person could set up a hempy bucket using some redwood bard and/or pine bark in the medium and get away with not pHing if their water was decent and they used a CRF.

In straight hydro....I'd carefully pH everything.

But, since we're on the OC+ thread, I never framed my arguments for hydro, but for soil.

 

[IrishBoy]

Ah....now I see what all the hub bub was.

All along, I've been pHing in hempy.....perlite. But not in soil, for the reasons we've been discussing.

A good soil will adjust pH all by itself.....and nearly all of them will do it right out of the bag.

Hyrdo is different....

I do think a person could set up a hempy bucket using some redwood bard and/or pine bark in the medium and get away with not pHing if their water was decent and they used a CRF.

In straight hydro....I'd carefully pH everything.

But, since we're on the OC+ thread, I never framed my arguments for hydro, but for soil.

now things make sense..lol..

i thought you were talking about any medium but perlite or even cheap off brand soils..

But yes i would have to agree that is you have a good soil and it was PH neutral or adjusted to the correct PH range and ur nutes were PH stable then you would be ok. but IMO every things needs to tie into each other and balance out.. by either adding peat moss or something or Lime to balance out the medium by your nute mixes PH.

A good soil will buffer will allow the PH to go between 6-7 without any trouble, but when things get over 7 (neutral) things usally start getting hairy on things getting locked out..

but yes now things make sense to me, i was on a whole different page.lol. i was thinking theirs no way even if you had great quality soil you could feed a plant @ 14PH water.. things need to be balanced out in the medium in order to substitute for ur waters PH.

 

[Doc Bud]

now things make sense..lol..

i thought you were talking about any medium but perlite or even cheap off brand soils..

But yes i would have to agree that is you have a good soil and it was PH neutral or adjusted to the correct PH range and ur nutes were PH stable then you would be ok. but IMO every things needs to tie into each other and balance out.. by either adding peat moss or something or Lime to balance out the medium by your nute mixes PH.

A good soil will buffer will allow the PH to go between 6-7 without any trouble, but when things get over 7 (neutral) things usally start getting hairy on things getting locked out..

but yes now things make sense to me, i was on a whole different page.lol. i was thinking theirs no way even if you had great quality soil you could feed a plant @ 14PH water.. things need to be balanced out in the medium in order to substitute for ur waters PH.

I'm not trying to nit pick....really, I'm not. I just want to make sure folks who are interested understand the chemistry and the concepts. Understanding the interactions of water, nutrients and soil structure to growers is like knowing wrenches, bearing presses and OBD readers if you're a mechanic.

Would I feed a plant 14pH water?

Well, that depends!

If you take RO, and add a bit of pH UP....you'll get pH 13 or 14 pretty easy. However, there the total alkalinity of such a mixture is very low and I'd feed it to a soil plant in a second...just to prove my point.

However, if you are talking about a gallon of seawater mixed with a cup of sodium hydroxide.....there is no way to make that safe for plants, even though the pH is the same as the first batch.

 

[IrishBoy]

I'm not trying to nit pick....really, I'm not. I just want to make sure folks who are interested understand the chemistry and the concepts. Understanding the interactions of water, nutrients and soil structure to growers is like knowing wrenches, bearing presses and OBD readers if you're a mechanic.

Would I feed a plant 14pH water?

Well, that depends!

If you take RO, and add a bit of pH UP....you'll get pH 13 or 14 pretty easy. However, there the total alkalinity of such a mixture is very low and I'd feed it to a soil plant in a second...just to prove my point.

However, if you are talking about a gallon of seawater mixed with a cup of sodium hydroxide.....there is no way to make that safe for plants, even though the pH is the same as the first batch.

i agree with the RO water PH 14 in soil being ok as long as you adjusted the soil for that type of PH water.. But i would beat money that just a bag of FFOF soil with nothing added to it feed great water put @ 0 or 14PH you would have trouble.. but if you added things to the soil to balance out the PH then you would be good to go.. but IMO the soil has to be adjusted to balance out the low or high PH .. ive done it before many times with excellent water quality and FFOF and never PH the water and the PH was off and my friend and i both had trouble, but once the water was PH'ed everything cleared up.. ive been their and done it many times, mix the soil proper then every thing will balance out and be good to go with whatever PH because it will buffer/ balance out.. plain soil will only buffer so much with PH.. its allot more forgiving then hydro.. but hydro is allot easier and faster to Fix a PH problem.. no matter what you do i think everyone should still always check their run off and make sure things are going smooth. quality water soil and PH still within range is the only way to go IMO. not saying you have to add PH up or down but having it within reason.. i am way more worried about all the bloom additives hurting my medium them PH up, they also make some PH up or down that is used up by the plants and no harm, their are many different types of PH adjuster that are cleaner for your medium.

thank you for the good info and the good reading on those links.. you reminded me i need to check my water quality at my new spot, since i am now using tap water..

 

[go green]

Holy cow!

 

[IrishBoy]

Dont know if you guys want me to post pics of the different TRF i am using on here since its an OC+ thread? ill have more pics on my thread.


OC+ PLANTS

2ND PLANT

DM RED BOTTLE.. THE 1ST PIC IS THE PLANT THAT GOT THE DM 1 WEEK BEFORE ALL THE OTHERS, SO I AM GUESSING THAT WHY ITS SO BIG ON THE BUDS. THE 2ND PIC IS THE PLANT FEED THE SAME TIME AS THE OTHERS

2ND PLANT

DM PURPLE BOTTLE

2ND PLANT

RANDOM PICS OF THE GARDEN

DM RED BOTTLE

 

[Doc Bud]

In your garden, dynamite appears to be.....DYNAMITE!

While I'm really feeling your frustration of a 22 week bloom period......I'm really happy you've tried the DM. I've maintained all along that it could work as good or better than the OC+, and I believe your results suggest that if you anticipate high temps in the garden, DM may be a better choice.

I'm running OC+ in 15 pots
I'll run a custom organic mix in 15 more
and I think I'll try some DM and some OC 14/14/14 in a few others.

I am confident all of them will work, and my temps for the last week have been textbook perfect. It should be a good little trial.

 

[HorseBadoritz]

and my temps for the last week have been textbook perfect. It should be a good little trial.

High Doc, what are textbook perfect temps? I've been digging around, and have found books with everything from 59-90°, and then there's the ones with celsius numbers! Do I just need to find a book with my temps in it?

 

[Doc Bud]

High Doc, what are textbook perfect temps? I've been digging around, and have found books with everything from 59-90°, and then there's the ones with celsius numbers! Do I just need to find a book with my temps in it?

Here's my definition:

Daytime canopy:
82 with Co2 enrichment, 78 without. 50-60 rh during veg, 40-50 during bloom. Some tropical sativas may be happier a bit warmer, but these temps will work well with everything.

Nightime:
All my reading says a temperature drop of 15 degrees is favorable, will keep your plants from stretching too much and will allow the terpenes to develop.....so that means 65-67 at night. I run my rh at 50% at night.

I really tried hard to justify the 90 degree temps, because I was having problems before I got my room dialed in and canopy temps were 88. So I read, and searched, and read some more and decided that my plants would not be as healthy at those temps....even though biomass might have increased in some.

My most recent grow is a bit larger than my previous ones, and I wasn't going to settle for anything less than optimal conditions.

Optimal environment with good feeding=best product possible. That's the bottom line.

 

[HorseBadoritz]

Here's my definition:

Daytime canopy:
82 with Co2 enrichment, 78 without. 50-60 rh during veg, 40-50 during bloom. Some tropical sativas may be happier a bit warmer, but these temps will work well with everything.

Nightime:
All my reading says a temperature drop of 15 degrees is favorable, will keep your plants from stretching too much and will allow the terpenes to develop.....so that means 65-67 at night. I run my rh at 50% at night.

I really tried hard to justify the 90 degree temps, because I was having problems before I got my room dialed in and canopy temps were 88. So I read, and searched, and read some more and decided that my plants would not be as healthy at those temps....even though biomass might have increased in some.

My most recent grow is a bit larger than my previous ones, and I wasn't going to settle for anything less than optimal conditions.

Optimal environment with good feeding=best product possible. That's the bottom line.

Honestly, I think 90° could work, if everything else was pretty well in line. My one grow has shown me that 90° exacerbates even minor issues to a critical point.

So now I've got to add a 15° night timedrop to my plants' wish list

Thanks for the input

 

[Grower Z]

Nightime:
All my reading says a temperature drop of 15 degrees is favorable, will keep your plants from stretching too much and will allow the terpenes to develop.....

It's the other way around, Doc.

Grhn Env: Temperature

Greenhouse Temperature
J. Raymond Kessler, Jr.

DIF
Over the last 40-50 years, plant height has been controlled using chemical growth retardants. Concerns about the environment and human health has lead to efforts to control plant height using other means. Recently researchers have uncovered a practical relationship between plant height and day/night temperature. This relationship can be expressed as the difference in the day and night temperature, abbreviated DIF:

DIF = day temperature (DT) - night temperature (NT)

For example, DIF values of +10°, 0°, and -10°F are derived from 70°F DT - 60°F NT, 65°F DT- 65°F NT, and 60°F DT - 70°F NT, respectively.

The principle of DIF can be applied in the greenhouse to control plant height and reduce the need for chemical growth retardants.

– The primary effect of DIF is to influence internode elongation. A negative DIF may influence the biosynthesis of GA3 since spray applications of GA3 can cause normal internode elongation under negative DIF.

– Plant height can be decreased by decreasing the day temperature or increasing the night temperature or both. Achieve a close to zero or negative DIF. Conversely, to increase plant height, increase the day temperature or decrease the night temperature.

– The magnitude of the response to DIF is not the same across all DIF values. The increase in internode length as DIF increases (more positive) is greater than the decrease in internode length as DIF decrease (more negative).

– The difference in the day and night temperature determines internode length regardless of the absolute day or night temperature.

– DIF works best when plants are in a rapid stage of growth. Response to DIF is rapid, often as soon as 24 to 48 hours.

– Extremely negative DIF can have adverse affects on plants resulting in yellow foliage. If a negative DIF is applied for a short period and plants are returned to a positive DIF, green color usually returns to the leaves. However, young seedling treated for an extended period may remain yellow and stunted.

– DIF affects internode elongation, plant height, leaf orientation, shoot orientation, chlorophyll content, lateral branching, and petiole and flower stalk elongation.

Temperature Drop

During warm times of the year, dropping the day temperature close to the night temperature may not be possible throughout the day. Recent work has shown that a temperature drop or rise for 2-3 hours at the beginning or end of the light period has a strong affect on internode elongation. In the greenhouse a temperature drop is usually applied by turning on the fans and/or opening vents 20-30 min. before dawn then returning to a normal venting pattern 2-3 hours later. This sensitivity during specific points in the photoperiod may be related to endogenous rhythms.​

 

[Doc Bud]

It's the other way around, Doc.

Grhn Env: Temperature

Greenhouse Temperature
J. Raymond Kessler, Jr.

DIF
Over the last 40-50 years, plant height has been controlled using chemical growth retardants. Concerns about the environment and human health has lead to efforts to control plant height using other means. Recently researchers have uncovered a practical relationship between plant height and day/night temperature. This relationship can be expressed as the difference in the day and night temperature, abbreviated DIF:

DIF = day temperature (DT) - night temperature (NT)

For example, DIF values of +10°, 0°, and -10°F are derived from 70°F DT - 60°F NT, 65°F DT- 65°F NT, and 60°F DT - 70°F NT, respectively.

The principle of DIF can be applied in the greenhouse to control plant height and reduce the need for chemical growth retardants.

— The primary effect of DIF is to influence internode elongation. A negative DIF may influence the biosynthesis of GA3 since spray applications of GA3 can cause normal internode elongation under negative DIF.

— Plant height can be decreased by decreasing the day temperature or increasing the night temperature or both. Achieve a close to zero or negative DIF. Conversely, to increase plant height, increase the day temperature or decrease the night temperature.

— The magnitude of the response to DIF is not the same across all DIF values. The increase in internode length as DIF increases (more positive) is greater than the decrease in internode length as DIF decrease (more negative).

— The difference in the day and night temperature determines internode length regardless of the absolute day or night temperature.

— DIF works best when plants are in a rapid stage of growth. Response to DIF is rapid, often as soon as 24 to 48 hours.

— Extremely negative DIF can have adverse affects on plants resulting in yellow foliage. If a negative DIF is applied for a short period and plants are returned to a positive DIF, green color usually returns to the leaves. However, young seedling treated for an extended period may remain yellow and stunted.

— DIF affects internode elongation, plant height, leaf orientation, shoot orientation, chlorophyll content, lateral branching, and petiole and flower stalk elongation.

Temperature Drop

During warm times of the year, dropping the day temperature close to the night temperature may not be possible throughout the day. Recent work has shown that a temperature drop or rise for 2-3 hours at the beginning or end of the light period has a strong affect on internode elongation. In the greenhouse a temperature drop is usually applied by turning on the fans and/or opening vents 20-30 min. before dawn then returning to a normal venting pattern 2-3 hours later. This sensitivity during specific points in the photoperiod may be related to endogenous rhythms.​

wow!
That's very enlightening.....
I didn't look this up, I merely took the advice of an experienced friend, who specifically told me that high day temps and a smaller temperature drop leads to stretchy plants, because the growth rate increases with temperature.

This info isn't quite saying that....if I read it right it says lower day temps and higher night temps decrease stretch, which seems logical if higher temps=higher metabolism.

So, what do you think of my temps and what do you think are optimal temps?

I can create a stable environment anywhere from 64-90 degress in my current set up.