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jandre2k3 said:
True, but there has to be a BRAIN to back the orders followed to tell if this is that day or not. If your entire team is sacrificed trying to achieve an objective, and you still failed in your objective, were you successful simply because you followed orders and got your team killed?

While it is true that is the officer's job to make those tough calls, it should not be done so without the consideration of losses vs. gains if the objective is achieved. Acceptable casualties, is never acceptable, IMHO. How would you like to be ordered to do something with no hope of accomplishing your mission? Would YOU just run out and take the bullet you knew was headed your way as soon as you showed your head on a mission that was impossible to complete?

I know you can't answer that, not being in the situation, but I would think that you'd have a better head on your shoulders than to just march right on up there and get it blown off.

"I want you to know that your son died for a good cause... We thought that if we threw enough men at them eventually they'd run out of ammunition and then we could just watz up and take the place."

While I agree that to give your life in the line of duty is honorable, if there was no point to your death, that honor is tainted by the bad decision of an officer.
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Truthfully, if you had just gotten out of Marine Boot Camp you would!
 
jandre2k3 said:
True, but there has to be a BRAIN to back the orders followed to tell if this is that day or not. If your entire team is sacrificed trying to achieve an objective, and you still failed in your objective, were you successful simply because you followed orders and got your team killed?

While it is true that is the officer's job to make those tough calls, it should not be done so without the consideration of losses vs. gains if the objective is achieved. Acceptable casualties, is never acceptable, IMHO. How would you like to be ordered to do something with no hope of accomplishing your mission? Would YOU just run out and take the bullet you knew was headed your way as soon as you showed your head on a mission that was impossible to complete?

I know you can't answer that, not being in the situation, but I would think that you'd have a better head on your shoulders than to just march right on up there and get it blown off.

"I want you to know that your son died for a good cause... We thought that if we threw enough men at them eventually they'd run out of ammunition and then we could just watz up and take the place."

While I agree that to give your life in the line of duty is honorable, if there was no point to your death, that honor is tainted by the bad decision of an officer.
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I was on many missions that may have required the sacrafice of the entire crew... (it almost happened twice) this would have been done to save you and yours and I would do it again.
 
Buckshot said:
I was on many missions that may have required the sacrafice of the entire crew... (it almost happened twice) this would have been done to save you and yours and I would do it again.
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While I appreciate the sacrifice, for me and mine, if you had done it once... that would have been the only time you would have given your life... You wouldn't be around to do it again.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking you doing your duty. What I'm talking about is the multitude of brainless minions blindly walking to their death, when it could have, and should have been avoided. You cannot serve this country if you're the idiot that walks into a bullet or looks at an IED and steps on it, simply because he has been ordered to.

You, evidently have a good head on your shoulders because you figured out a way to for you and your crew to stay alive. I thank you for that. You performed a valuable service to this country by keeping your head- in both manners of speaking. It meant that you could continue to protect our country. That's kinda hard to do with a flag draped over your coffin.
 
jandre2k3


I was enlisted. I served on a crew of 12 men that were a combination of officers and enlisted men that worked as a team. I do not want to argue or stomp around in OMM’s thread.

I think we can all agree that peace is best. :peace:
 
That Leutenant sounds like many people that are attracted to jobs that have power. It seems that the people that are attracted to jobs like policeman, club bouncer, hall monitor, public pool lifeguard, etc.......are the worst possible candidates. When I was in the service, I worked with a lot of officers that were honest good people. Then you see the new leutenants that just got out of school. They still haven't lived yet and have no idea how to handle the power they have. It just goes to their head. They were trained to believe they are a step above the enlisted and they will do thier best to make sure they show it. Just the way I saw it though my e-3 eyes!
 
I have a friend that was in Ord, then went to HI, then to Lewis to start a new unit, and now is in Maryland... E-6... Won NCO of the month 15 times, and NCO of the year twice. His only bitch about a 2Lt. is that most of them are cocky... then they get their ass handed to them and most are humbled again and they mellow out. A few though, as is the case right now, get a b0n3r for one of the enlisted and try to cause trouble, then a call is made, a record speaks for itself, and usually they find someone else to harass for a while. First deployment is hard on those guys. I really feel for them, relearning about life all over again, and how much NOT bigger, better, and badder than everyone else they are.
 
I totally agree OMM! When I was in I never met an officer that was enlisted first before becoming an officer that was not great to serve with. They just have a much better appreciation to the enlisted and know how to lead much better!
 
OldMedMan said:
Hi Queen! :Love:Thanks, I didn't want any part of that.....I don't mess with friends relationships.
Sorry the heat wave is coming back. I hearing ya on paying the light bill. I remember my big one. Ugh!I bet your girls are loving it. I'd buy a fan or two too! A good cool shower would help too! :rasta:
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Yeah right now I just got my first electric bill since moving. So I want to compare for the next few months to see what it rounds out to. Man, the sprouts is just sucking it up. I have been taking nice cool baths but maybe an hour or so later I am hot and sweaty again. But today it's pretty nice, around 84 but then by Wednesday back to the 90's again.
 
One of the truly nicest guys I've ever met was one of the new LTs we got when I was in... He was just out of a big military academy on the East coast too...but he wasn't cocky, he was smart, and confident that his ideas were sound.

The LT picked the team he wanted...I was pretty motivated when I was in...and he picked me as his gunner, so I got to hear a lot of conversations others didn't. I can't tell you how cool it was to hear a 2nd lieutenant telling the platoon sergeant "...this is what we need to do...I'm thinking this...what are your thoughts sergeant?". Everyone, including the NCOs grew to respect him very quickly, and I can honestly say he was the best platoon leader I ran across.

I think the military is just like everywhere else...there's a mix of great folks, and not so great folks... :ganjamon:
 
Closet Farmer said:
That Leutenant sounds like many people that are attracted to jobs that have power. It seems that the people that are attracted to jobs like policeman, club bouncer, hall monitor, public pool lifeguard, etc.......are the worst possible candidates. When I was in the service, I worked with a lot of officers that were honest good people. Then you see the new leutenants that just got out of school. They still haven't lived yet and have no idea how to handle the power they have. It just goes to their head. They were trained to believe they are a step above the enlisted and they will do thier best to make sure they show it. Just the way I saw it though my e-3 eyes!
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Hey! I used to bounce at a latin club in one of the larger cities around here...I looked like all the other shaved head bruisers, but I was really in it just to meet all the nice Latinas! :;):

Let's not forget TSA agent in that list...who wouldn't love to hoist old women out of their wheelchairs and feel around in their diapers? Or spill the ashes of someone's grandfather on the floor, and laugh as the person is on their hands and knees trying to scoop up ashes and bone fragments. Or make double amputee veterans remove all their prosthetics not once, but call them back to security and do it again...

Okay...sorry, rant off.

:ganjamon:
 
you know when I was younger I was inbetween the milatary thing but I hitched across the states and joined a carnval and let me tell you thay I know it wasn't no boot camp but it deffinetly one hard life lesson:) more on that comming up in my journal
Vapedogg223 said:
One of the truly nicest guys I've ever met was one of the new LTs we got when I was in... He was just out of a big military academy on the East coast too...but he wasn't cocky, he was smart, and confident that his ideas were sound.

The LT picked the team he wanted...I was pretty motivated when I was in...and he picked me as his gunner, so I got to hear a lot of conversations others didn't. I can't tell you how cool it was to hear a 2nd lieutenant telling the platoon sergeant "...this is what we need to do...I'm thinking this...what are your thoughts sergeant?". Everyone, including the NCOs grew to respect him very quickly, and I can honestly say he was the best platoon leader I ran across.

I think the military is just like everywhere else...there's a mix of great folks, and not so great folks... :ganjamon:
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Vapedogg223 said:
Hey! I used to bounce at a latin club in one of the larger cities around here...I looked like all the other shaved head bruisers, but I was really in it just to meet all the nice Latinas! :;):

Let's not forget TSA agent in that list...who wouldn't love to hoist old women out of their wheelchairs and feel around in their diapers? Or spill the ashes of someone's grandfather on the floor, and laugh as the person is on their hands and knees trying to scoop up ashes and bone fragments. Or make double amputee veterans remove all their prosthetics not once, but call them back to security and do it again...

Okay...sorry, rant off.

:ganjamon:
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Hey there Vapp Dog!! I wasn't talking about you. From what I read from you I think you are cool! I said people drawn to that type of job. You weren't drawn to it for the power. You were drawn to it to meet hot chicks!! LoL! That makes you even cooler!!

Definately add TSA to the list!! LoL!!

How about adding Dictator too!
 
QueenTokelove said:
Yeah right now I just got my first electric bill since moving. So I want to compare for the next few months to see what it rounds out to. Man, the sprouts is just sucking it up. I have been taking nice cool baths but maybe an hour or so later I am hot and sweaty again. But today it's pretty nice, around 84 but then by Wednesday back to the 90's again.
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Hi Queen. At least you'll know what to expect for as your electric goes. Good to hear your girls are enjoying themselves. Sorry about the heat.
Tell you the truth Jo and I both wake up covered with sweat...goes with the territory around here. We have heat ALL the time. :rasta:
 
Vapedogg223 said:
One of the truly nicest guys I've ever met was one of the new LTs we got when I was in... He was just out of a big military academy on the East coast too...but he wasn't cocky, he was smart, and confident that his ideas were sound.

The LT picked the team he wanted...I was pretty motivated when I was in...and he picked me as his gunner, so I got to hear a lot of conversations others didn't. I can't tell you how cool it was to hear a 2nd lieutenant telling the platoon sergeant "...this is what we need to do...I'm thinking this...what are your thoughts sergeant?". Everyone, including the NCOs grew to respect him very quickly, and I can honestly say he was the best platoon leader I ran across.

I think the military is just like everywhere else...there's a mix of great folks, and not so great folks... :ganjamon:
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Thats great to hear Vapedogg223. There are some of those around.....smart to run his ideas by his NCOs.
That was one the points in our class......the NCOs have been there done that and are valuable to a young officer.
Of course the Flying Warrant Officers had to trust their NCOs, otherwise they didn't fly. ;)

Your right..good and bad everywhere.
 
Vapedogg223 said:
Hey! I used to bounce at a latin club in one of the larger cities around here...I looked like all the other shaved head bruisers, but I was really in it just to meet all the nice Latinas! :;):

Let's not forget TSA agent in that list...who wouldn't love to hoist old women out of their wheelchairs and feel around in their diapers? Or spill the ashes of someone's grandfather on the floor, and laugh as the person is on their hands and knees trying to scoop up ashes and bone fragments. Or make double amputee veterans remove all their prosthetics not once, but call them back to security and do it again...

Okay...sorry, rant off.

:ganjamon:
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I don't blame you about the Latinas.....I would be doing the same thing.:hippy:
The other stuff was just vile! :smokin2::smokin2:
 
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