Omega Garden's Volksgarden Rotary Garden

[WheeloFortune]

Just out of curiosity, what's the benefit of using an autoflower variety? Having the ability to clone is truly what makes growing economical. Not to mention the ability to make the plant most any size you wish. If plants are growing long and stringy, that means you need more light. I plan on using an adjustable electronic ballast 1000/750/500 and pumping as much light as they will take without frying them. My Volksgarden has not yet been delivered thanks to local fires, which is actually fine since I'm waiting on my mothers to mature enough to put out the number of clones I will use. I believe any indica dominant strain should work well in the machine. As usual, it seems the hardest part of growing, is practicing patience.

ok. lets break it down.

(Clone) i have always grown from clone, and it has many advantages, however i don't think its more "economical" by a long shot. for clones you need a seperate room for moms, more lights, fans, etc. etc. you have to keep more plants, it takes a couple weeks for your clones to take root so sometimes you have moms, clones, and flowers all at the same time. more nutes for the moms, etc. etc. lots of stuff.
(auto) However a LARGE LARGE stock of feminized seeds (thousands) would easily fit in a mason jar.

(C) yes, its true, you can grow clones to any size, considering if you take a 10" clone and go straight to 12/12 it'll still be 14-18 tall by the time its done if it has any sativa genes. This makes no difference in this style of grow however since you only have 19" to work with, and really even less because you dont want you buds sitting right on the cool tube. 16" max seems the biggest practical size to me so it makes no diff if you theoretically could grown them bigger.
(A)Depending on the strain, you can get "dwarf" style autos that will never get taller than 14".

the quantum ballast is awesome. I am going to run (2) 600's instead of (1) 1000 for better light coverage. I would reccomend the same, but it is a bit more expensive.

I agree that most any indica dominant strain should work well in this system, but lets make a quick comparison:
(clones)
You will need 6-8 moms at least to be able to produce 80 clones every 7-8 weeks. a seperate room for those moms and all associated equipment and nutes and supplements. Plus when you clone you will need cloning gel/powder and some other supplements like a b2 supplement. put them in a dome, mist them, check them, take dome off to let them breathe, etc etc.
(autos)
I will have a jar of a ton of feminized auto seeds. about 2 weeks before harvest, i will take 100 1" RW cubes, and germinate 100 seeds. i will take the 80 healthiest babies and put them in the wheel. done.


Also some advantages that i think i will get from going auto.

(1) short size.
(2) hoard thousands of all female plants and many different strains in small containers. and store for many years at a time.
(3) under 20/4 cycle for flower for 6 weeks (typical auto) thats 42days x 20 hours, thats 840 hours of growth during flower.
under 12/12 cycle for 8 weeks (typical photodependant) thats 56days x 12 hours, thats 672 hours of growth during flower.
(4)less electricity, even though the hours are longer, i can eliminate a second room.
(5) clones do not have a tap root, seeds do.
(6) you don't have to fill the wheel all at the same time. . . you can add 10 seeds a week if you want, because you dont have different light cycles for different stages of growth.

Finally i would just like to say that your assumption about low potency used to be true about LR#1, but in the past year, these genes are really catching on, and now there are probably 30-40 different crosses that you can get from dope-seeds alone. There are very potent crosses in there if thats what your looking for.

anyways, there no reason to not run clones if you have stock already and want to. they run great in this system, just dont veg for more than a few days.

gl, WOF

 

[bigmouthbass]

This might be dumb a question? If u have moms in soil and takes clones 4 the omega in rock wool will it shock the clone or stunt it some way once there put in volks

 

[WheeloFortune]

nah, that works fine.

 

[CanbisMxmus]

Wow, thats what I call a reply! Thanks for the quick update on how its done. I grow my mothers outside year round, supplementing light, or blocking it, as need be, so my electrical cost is minimal. I also use cfl's and led's as well as h.i.d. lights. As far as climate control goes, all I've needed are a few oscillating fans. A tray of rockwool cubes, a bottle of dip'n grow (which lasts me hundreds of clones), a couple lights, cfl's or led, and I can crank out clones like mad. My survival rate is about 85%, not to mention each batch is better than the next since the clones continue to mature.

Seeds have hybrid vigor, but then you have the sexing issue. It really seems that this is a matter of personal choice. Deciding where you want to focus your attention. Do you want to look for males, or do you want to have to root clones for a couple weeks?

Seeds are not easily acquired where I am. I have to order online, and hope they make it or I get one in some bud I buy, and now more than ever, people bring them to me! Clones I can go buy at the dispensary, and they are generally suited to the climate (local varieties) or are indoor type.

So for my situation I believe I've taken the appropriate action. Although it certainly sounds wonderfully simple to do as you stated. Is anything ever as easy as it should be?

Let's each do our thing and compare notes. This should be informative for all!

 

[CanbisMxmus]

One other question, you mentioned lot's of feminized seeds. Did you buy them? At what cost? True feminized seeds will not intersex, so the only possible way to propagate is either cloning or getting a male. Are feminized seeds always female?

 

[WheeloFortune]

cbmax,

you can make a simple solution to spray on a female to turn it male. as long as you buy respectable seeds from good seed banks on the internet you should be able to trust feminized strains to truly be females. this way you can be confident that all of your seeds will also be 100% female.

having to grow males was the first thing that i didn't like about the autoflowers, but now they have feminzed autostrains by respectable seedbanks. this means i can turn 5 seeds into 1000 in one grow. all female. but im gonna buy more than that because i'm inpatient.

one note. . . after taking many many clones, a lot of plants will start to grow spindly or turn hermie or show slow growth. but some people can keep a plant 20 years.

and. . . its not easy but its worth the reward.

 

[WheeloFortune]

oh yeah, and your dispensary can get you clones but not seeds? is that normal? i don't live in a state with dispensaries.

 

[CanbisMxmus]

The laws regarding seeds are iffy. People who have good seeds, keep them. I'm new to the area and look like an undercover cop or something, so there's not much help around. I like dispensaries for the amazing selection often available (of dried bud), but they operate like a pawn shop. You get paid pennies and they charge top dollar. For myself it was unrealistic to continue paying the outrageous price for good smoke when I can grow it myslef. My objective is to make affordable, quality buds, available to those in need. I'm really hoping this machine and also techniques I learn here will help me reach my objective. Keep up the good work and informative replies! TY WOF

 

[WheeloFortune]

well you obviously have access to the internet. lol. that means you can get any seed you want. send in a money order if you do not want to pay with a CC.

but if you already have moms that work great. i just chose a different rout.

but dont let the fact that you cant find any good seeds on the street keep you from getting the genetics that you want.

 

[Keith Lake]

One other question, you mentioned lot's of feminized seeds. Did you buy them? At what cost? True feminized seeds will not intersex, so the only possible way to propagate is either cloning or getting a male. Are feminized seeds always female?

What about the failsafe of over ripening until a banana or male acorn appears and capturing pollen locally? Plastic bag over the site to restrict the pollen movement. This is not a hermaphroditic tendency

You guys may already know all about this but for the benefit of all reading, I found a post by Racefan that describes this...

The easiest way is to buy some but the other easy way for feminized seeds is to continue to flower your plants after they are ripe. It's a procedure called rhodelization and it was developed by Soma. About 2 to 3 weeks after the trichs are amber the female will attempt a last ditch effort to carry on the genetics and will throw out some bananas. Collect this pollen. It is female pollen and when you use this pollen on a younger female that is about mid way through flower you will end up with feminized seeds. It's not a fast procedure but has been proven to work.

Here's a photo of a male acorn as these differ from the typical appearance of a male flower

Dirty Harry - Acorn flowers (male) on a mature non hermie, female bud.

 

[WheeloFortune]

very interesting soniq. looks like it would work, but. . .

the only problem with this method IMO is that it looks hard. lol, have to wait a long time and then search every bud to find one or two little bananas hidden in buds and collect the pollen.

i guess one advantage of this method could be if you could harvest all the top colas, and leave the small bottom buds to over ripen and provide pollen.

one question about doing that is if they are exposed to other stresses (topping) it might hermie, and you may mistake one process for another and get hermie seeds??? just thinking out loud here.

i guess i'll go read the post.

 

[CanbisMxmus]

Nice! I have certainly had a few male flowers here and there, but generaly I thought it was intersex tendencies, and probably was since I usually harvest when trichomes are 90% milky with just a few amber. I suppose this would work on a clone as well, so that I could create a small plant that I don't mind over-ripening? W.O.F. suggested the hormone solution, but I was led to believe it wasn't available to the general public (stamen-it). I would imagine that the over-ripening technique should only be done on a plant that does not have intersex tendencies? I am eager to find out!

 

[inferno420]

WOF posted this earlyer and spose to make a thread later about it
"""
STS (Silver Thiosulfate Solution)

so heres what to do.

take .5 grams of Silver Nitrate
and 2.5 grams of Sodium Thiosulfate. (anhydrous) also called sodium hyposulfite or “hypo.”

mix each in 500ml of water (hopefully ro or you may get some precipitate)
it takes longer to dissolve the hypo than the silver. shake both vigorously for 60 seconds to be sure ( longer if its not all dissolved.)

you MUST add the silver solution to the hypo solution. note you MUST do it in this order, and stirr your mother f'n ass off. just so its clear: do not add the hypo to the silver.

this will give you 1 liter of concentrated STS. keep this in a fridge if you want to store it for a long time. (keep the powder in there too to save it). you have to dilute this down to 9:1 to use it.

add 100ml STS and 900ml of distilled water to a 1 liter spray bottle. this is what you use.

now you take a plant that you are ready to flower. a known female (hopefully no hermie). you spray her down until it runs off. make sure to do this away from the rest of your females. wait for it to dry, so you dont expose the others, then put it in 12/12 rigth away.

2 weeks later give it a second spray down. try to keep the temp steady at 80. feed it with a bloom nute high ih Phosphorous.

pollen should be flying 30-35 days after first spray, so you have to try to time it right when your other fems will be ready to accept pollination.

i have never used this technique on an autoflower yet, but i will. i am going to buy some short auto feminized, and ill just spray it at like day 21. then again on day 34.
if you are not using feminized autos, i would just spray at first pistil, then 2 weeks after that.

this method will make a female bud male flowers and pollinate PROFUSELY. since the plant was female, it has no male genes. if you use this pollen to pollinate female flowers, ALL of the seeds will also be female.

i bought 5 grams silver @ 10 bucks, and 500 grams sodium hypo for 10 bucks with 10 bucks shipping. thats 30 bucks. for that 30 bucks, i only use a small amount of what i bought, one batch makes 10 liters, each liter is enough for 20 mid size plants. thats 200 doses, and i barely dent the powder.

good luck, and happy breeding.
__________________
anger dwells only in the bosom of fools
not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.
WISDOM begins in WONDER


THE WHEEL OF FORTUNE!""""""

I figured i would help u out wof so u wouldnt have to go back in find it hope u dont mind

 

[WheeloFortune]

i read it.

it looks cool. i dunno though. i read about light poisoning in high times too, and when you use light poisoning to get male pollen from females, i find that alot of the seeds are hermies. i guess this is a different process but i would like to hear more to see if you get any hermies. racefan did say they were tchnically hermies. if he knows what hes talking about.

 

[CanbisMxmus]

Awesome. You guys rock! It's great to get truly helpful info.

 

[WheeloFortune]

inferno,
i dont mind, i just hope maxx doesnt either. . . i would have just said go to my thread instead of reposting, but more people watch his journal than mine so maybe this will enlighten some new people.

it's all good. maxx isnt here anyways. lol.
i have a feeling we'll get an update sometime hopefully soon.

 

[inferno420]

I hope everything is ok with max and also with his grow too. Can't wait to hear from him been checking the site like 2 times a day lol

 

[WheeloFortune]

he said he was two days from harvest 11 days ago. . . if he pushed it a couple more days, then a week or more to dry it. . . hoping pics soon?

 

[WheeloFortune]

like 5 pages of us talking since his last post. lol.

 

[bigmouthbass]

lucifer how long did it take u to get ur volks.I sent my money order last week tracked it toady called them and tell told me my money order would be there no later than thursday 5/14/09.Just wondering how long ill have to wait once they get the money.Not that it matters i still have to finish my room and grow clones.I ordered some seeds Mandala sadhu ,Mandala Hashberry,Ice cream female,White Berry female,Nirvana feminised Snow white,Dutch passion feminized Blueberry ,big bhudda cheese female.Any thoughts on those.I plan on starting all the females keeping the best looking 2 of each strain for moms and put the rest in the volks for my first grow and go from there.