MSquared's Organic Soil Indoor 4 Strain Grow - Perpetual

[MSquared]

Nice grow my friend.....don't know how I missed you.

Good luck on reaching your goal!

better late than never! lol. glad you stopped by. now I have an official grow

yeah its just a goal, nothing concrete just a way of gauging the grow. I will be happy with anything, but my expecations are a little higher with the medium and nutes i used this round.

Thanks agian for stopping by!

 

[OldMedMan]

better late than never! lol. glad you stopped by. now I have an official grow

yeah its just a goal, nothing concrete just a way of gauging the grow. I will be happy with anything, but my expecations are a little higher with the medium and nutes i used this round.

Thanks agian for stopping by!

Hi MS

Goals are great Buddy. Something to shoot at and you learn more with every grow, just like you said a gauge. Just thinking about that.........The easiest goal is to do better than your last grow. Think I'll put this Wild Thai out. Starting to wax on about nothing....

 

[Hash Hound]

Nice plants MSq

I don't want to start a defoliating debate, especially in someone else's journal.
Especially since the jury still seems to be out on the subject, and I olny prune to manipulate the growth structure of a plant.

Question I have about it is; are there any other flowering or fruit bearing plants that growers pick leaves off to expose the flower or fruit to get more light?

Do they pick grape leaves off of the vine to expose the grapes to more light?
Or do they leave them alone so they supply what the grapes need?

Do you pick leaves off your pepper plants to expose the peppers?'
Or leave them alone and you find huge peppers hidden behind the leaves?

Just wondering since it was asked about defoliating a few posts earlier.

 

[MSquared]

Nice plants MSq

I don't want to start a defoliating debate, especially in someone else's journal.
Especially since the jury still seems to be out on the subject, and I olny prune to manipulate the growth structure of a plant.

Question I have about it is; are there any other flowering or fruit bearing plants that growers pick leaves off to expose the flower or fruit to get more light?

Do they pick grape leaves off of the vine to expose the grapes to more light?
Or do they leave them alone so they supply what the grapes need?

Do you pick leaves off your pepper plants to expose the peppers?'
Or leave them alone and you find huge peppers hidden behind the leaves?

Just wondering since it was asked about defoliating a few posts earlier.

I certainly don't mind the debate at all, I think it is a really good topic to discuss. I know that some def do defolinate and others do not.
Those are really good questions that I hope someone answers.

I did on my last run, but did not on this one.
I did it on day 21 of FLR and day 45, just not sure it helped or hindered....
I suppose the question that would need to be answered is what exactly do the large fans do for them?
do they supply nutes to the plant? or what ecactly...

Thanks for stopping by and asking the question. again i think it is a really good topic.

 

[Goldengoose7]

Interesting topic for discussion!

As someone who has grown Jalapeno peppers and tomatoes as my main outdoor crops for nearly two decades now, I can address the question regarding peppers...

I do not remove leaves from the pepper plants to expose the pods to more sunlight because it doesn't really make much difference. However... it is a common practice among many tomato growers to trim back foliage to better expose that fruit to direct sunlight. I've found from experience that this definitely DOES help to ripen them faster and brings out the best in color and flavor, so I try to do this towards the end of the growing season whenever possible. That time this season is RIGHT NOW, and I just got back in from our tomato garden doing just that!

With my Cannabis, I follow each of my plant's lead in removing fan leaves that are covering lower flower buds. If I see yellowing of these fan leaves, I don't hesitate to snip them off and speed up the process that I feel the plant is attempting to begin. I always found it interesting that many of the first yellowing fan leaves on my flowering Cannabis plants are those that are preventing light from getting to these lower or deeper set flower buds.

I feel that as long as you are trimming off yellowing leaves that are more than 50% gone, you are only helping the plant develop better buds.

 

[MSquared]

Interesting topic for discussion!

As someone who has grown Jalapeno peppers and tomatoes as my main outdoor crops for nearly two decades now, I can address the question regarding peppers...

I do not remove leaves from the pepper plants to expose the pods to more sunlight because it doesn't really make much difference. However... it is a common practice among many tomato growers to trim back foliage to better expose that fruit to direct sunlight. I've found from experience that this definitely DOES help to ripen them faster and brings out the best in color and flavor, so I try to do this towards the end of the growing season whenever possible. That time this season is RIGHT NOW, and I just got back in from our tomato garden doing just that!

With my Cannabis, I follow each of my plant's lead in removing fan leaves that are covering lower flower buds. If I see yellowing of these fan leaves, I don't hesitate to snip them off and speed up the process that I feel the plant is attempting to begin. I always found it interesting that many of the first yellowing fan leaves on my flowering Cannabis plants are those that are preventing light from getting to these lower or deeper set flower buds.

I feel that as long as you are trimming off yellowing leaves that are more than 50% gone, you are only helping the plant develop better buds.

Thank you for that little tip on the tomatoes, that never really crossed my mind with them. I usually just remove any dead or decaing leaves.

I defoilinated my first run and not sure it helped. This time I am doing just that trimming any that are more than 50% gone.

for stopping by as always!

 

[Aberration]

I don't really know, but I would guess that the tomatoes benefit because the sunlight increases the fruit's sugar content. The real question seems to me to be whether cannabis buds benefit from direct sunlight or not. And there is no corresponding benefit to cannabis buds in my experience.

I've only grown a short time, and I'm no expert, but I've smoked a lot of buds. There is no difference, in my experience, between top colas and bottom-shaded buds other than density. There is no difference in smell, taste, potency, or high, that I have ever noticed, that can't be explained by the two samples being taken at differing points of maturity - top buds typically mature sooner. Finish the plant in stages and the differences disappear after a proper dry and a week's cure. At least I can't tell the difference.

So I don't think there is any corresponding 'sugaring the fruit' involved. There's not even a fruit really. The only reason I see to expose lower buds is so that their leaves can function better and support more calyces, and by extension, trichomes. But increasing density is better served by eliminating the worst offenders at the bottom and then spreading the plant in my experience. And it's less work.

So I don't defoliate unless there is a reason. But if someone can convince me that buds really do benefit from direct sunlight I would love to hear more (maybe with actual science, which outranks my b.s. guesses of course). I like this topic when it's a discussion. People get in arguments because the difference really does matter to them, and people get passionate about stuff like that. Honestly, a definitive answer from a botanist or something would be great.

 

[Goldengoose7]

Thank you for that little tip on the tomatoes, that never really crossed my mind with them. I usually just remove any dead or decaing leaves.

I defoilinated my first run and not sure it helped. This time I am doing just that trimming any that are more than 50% gone.

for stopping by as always!

Thanks MS! No problem! I am always following your journal, but I hold my comments until I read something that I can contribute to, like this current discussion. You should see an improvement in the ripening time for any tomatoes that you allow more light to shine on.

@Abberation

I don't have any scientific evidence to prove that sun/light exposure improves lower bud trichome production or yield, but it seems to do just that based on my own personal experience with it. As I mentioned in my last reply, if you spot a yellowing fan leaf when most Cannabis begins to shutdown fan leaf growth, you will often find that there is a bud site directly below this leaf that is being shaded by it. If you remove that leaf, the bud will have a 100% increase in the light reaching it.

The more I inspected my various flowering Cannabis over the years, the more I became convinced that the plants were deliberately shutting down the fan leaves obstructing bud sites FIRST. It wasn't just some random thing. The plant seemed to have a definite agenda in killing off these fan leaves to give its lower buds more light.

Since I came to that conclusion, I always trim off yellowing fan leaves hanging on the plant if they are shading bud sites. My yields are always excellent (just under 5 ounces from a single 38" tall BBK plant last month for example) and the potency of my harvested bud is always top notch, so I personally think there is something to it.

But...

If you need a double blind study to convince you I'm afraid I won't be able to help you with that.

 

[Aberration]

No, no study needed. Empirical data is good enough for me. I'll check that out. Thanks for the info. It does sound plausible.

 

[Goldengoose7]

No, no study needed. Empirical data is good enough for me. I'll check that out. Thanks for the info. It does sound plausible.

Excellent!

I think you will be pleased with the results and your plants will thank you for the assist!

 

[MSquared]

@GG7 - thanks as always!
@Aberration - I agrree that imperical data is good

 

[MSquared]

~~FLR room Overview Pics~~

I decided to show my FLR room a little closer than just taking pics of the plants (i know everyone wants to see bud porn).

It is hard trying to get a visual of a room and pics do help so I thought I would give it a go!

This is an overview of the room from the door in which under the cfl bank is CC1e, RB2b and RB4c

This one is just a little closer up of the overview

This one is more of just the right side so the one in front is RB2 behind her is BCR2 and the little one just to the back and left of RB2 is BCR4

A little better shot of the right side

This is left side where both cc1 and cc2 along with rb3

This is a little closer of left side

A really great picture of the lower middle of FLR room

I hope everyone enjoys this little update
Thanks and

 

[OldMedMan]

~~FLR room Overview Pics~~

I decided to show my FLR room a little closer than just taking pics of the plants (i know everyone wants to see bud porn).

It is hard trying to get a visual of a room and pics do help so I thought I would give it a go!

This is an overview of the room from the door in which under the cfl bank is CC1e, RB2b and RB4c

This one is just a little closer up of the overview

This one is more of just the right side so the one in front is RB2 behind her is BCR2 and the little one just to the back and left of RB2 is BCR4

A little better shot of the right side

This is left side where both cc1 and cc2 along with rb3

This is a little closer of left side

A really great picture of the lower middle of FLR room

I hope everyone enjoys this little update
Thanks and

Wow MS !

That's one crowded room........however they all look happy. Totally impressed!

 

[MSquared]

thanks OMM!
yeah I have them in there pretty good, but I think I can squeeze a few more in there.

Here is the current setup where the blue circles are my 6.5gal pots.

and here is what I think I get away with... the smaller are 4gal pots

Let me know what you guys think!

Thanks

 

[OldMedMan]

thanks OMM!
yeah I have them in there pretty good, but I think I can squeeze a few more in there.

Here is the current setup where the blue circles are my 6.5gal pots.

and here is what I think I get away with... the smaller are 4gal pots

Let me know what you guys think!

Thanks

Go for it MS!

Sounds good to me!

 

[Goldengoose7]

Go for it MS!

Sounds good to me!

Ditto! Makes total sense and should be a very efficient layout!

 

[MSquared]

Go for it MS!

Sounds good to me!

Ditto! Makes total sense and should be a very efficient layout!

THANKS GUYS!

Getting ready to take clones today. I know I have documented that before on here, but I will take pics and do it again.
I want to take 2 from best 8 and then cull down to 12 in the future.
so stay tuned for that.

Havest time is apon us as well. just another week or so for those big girls to come down. yeah.

 

[MSquared]

~~Information Only Update~~

Good Morning 420,

FLR Room
Well folks it is getting closer to end for the 6 large (thats a good thing for cannabis ) ladies in FLR. I am thinking just another week.
I will have PICS and close ups of all the ladies in there, they have packed on the weight and are really dense

ClonesNew
We took 16 clones off the 8 best and wanted to preserve the strongest, I will have pics and the height chart for them tomorrow for them.

VEG Room
I will also have an update on the VEG room with pics and chart as well tomorrow so stay tuned.

I just really hate when humidity is really high outside, its a pain in the @ss to keep it under control and I hate using the dehumidifier as it raises temps quite a bit.
Tonight is also a full watering only night which looks like this:
Water ONLY Schedule
FLR:
Big 4 168z
Other 2 112z
New 3 112z

VEG:
Black 112z
4g 64z

Thanks

 

[Goldengoose7]

Sounds good MS!

You're not watering during your LIGHTS OUT time are you? If you are already dealing with a humidity problem, you could be inviting a Powdery Mildew attack on your plants!

Here we have the damn PM spores all around us from the forest so I NEVER water during the dark cycle. The few times that I have, I have woke up to PM splotches already forming on some of the lower fan leaves.

Perhaps I missed something and you have your DAY cycle for your plants going during YOUR night?

 

[MSquared]

Sounds good MS!

You're not watering during your LIGHTS OUT time are you? If you are already dealing with a humidity problem, you could be inviting a Powdery Mildew attack on your plants!

Here we have the damn PM spores all around us from the forest so I NEVER water during the dark cycle. The few times that I have, I have woke up to PM splotches already forming on some of the lower fan leaves.

Perhaps I missed something and you have your DAY cycle for your plants going during YOUR night?

Thanks and no, I typically do it just before lights on. I have been really fortunate to have never had PM (knock-on-wood or my head ).
I really feel for anyone who has had it. the milk/water method is something I have used more times than I can count on my veg crops and always works wonders!

Yes my cycle is 7pm to 7am - Note to self: Run lights on at night and lights off during the day. It doesn't stink with lights off!!
That is kinda my motto...

Thanks as always for stopping by. Tomorrow is going to be a huge update. There is a lot going on!