Medical Grow

[Doc Bud]

Just experience I suppose.. I am not saying that a good base N-P-K will not do the job. Seems to me that certain strains need that little something extra that a base N-P-K might lack.

I looked for those studies that you are referring to Doc, w/ no luck.

If it would not be to much trouble, could you possibly post them again?

Your room is looking stellar. I just did a little research on the OC+. Needles to say it has my curiosity perked.

Keep up the good work.

I think those studies were in the Un-lucky Queen journal.....I don't have time to search for them. But basically they did leaf analysis and found that cannabis, like almost every other flowering/fruiting plant has pretty much the same nutritional needs.

3-1-2 + micro's. This stuff grows all over the world. If it was picky, we'd only find it in certain microclimates and altitudes.

 

[Doc Bud]

I don't think Greenhouse tomato growers change their nutrient formulation for every variety.

Someone please correct that if it's wrong.

Damnit Grower Z! Quite injecting reason and logic into the discussion. We've got folklore and tradition to guide us!

The simple fact is that plants have the ability to adapt to their environment.....be it water, soil, climate or nutrition. There is a range where a "sweet spot" occurs, but I'd venture a guess that nearly every cannabis plant would prosper in the same range, with very few exceptions. I mean, these plants are genetically identical twins!

same experience here with coir and perlite. Yield and potency are good, but taste and smell are lacking.

Yep. I think if you were growing for hash or kief, perlite/coir would be spectacular. But, for bag appeal, nose, flavor....soil all the way.

 

[WMDmountainIG]

It's not that this plant won't grow if given a base line of N-P-K because it will, and as for a plant reaching a sweet spot and all strains growing well there I would have to disagree, while Indicas are very heavy feeders Sativas can be very light feeders.I can have plants in the same room and what may be good for one plant can kill the one next to it. As far as being genetically identical I'm going to have to say that no they are not, they may be close to being identical but in my opinion there would not be two different plants listed in the botanical society, one is Canabis Indica and the other would be Canabis Sativa . I have lived among these plants for close to 30 years and out of my own personal experience I have had to learn to read the plant to see what it needs. You can automate an entire room and you can get very good quality weed but if as you say you want to build a reputation builder then the only way you are going to get your plants to stand out on top is to give them individual attention and then you will get the true winners....

 

[HighWaterMark]

Well, I have to say thank you. A month from today, a ballot measure will either drastically have changed my life (or left it be). The wheels are turning. Business plan's done. Even startup funding is close (these things don't come cheap - with a storefront). You, DocBud provided some needed early information and for that I am grateful.

BTW, your room is a work of beauty. No bugs?

 

[Doc Bud]

It's not that this plant won't grow if given a base line of N-P-K because it will, and as for a plant reaching a sweet spot and all strains growing well there I would have to disagree, while Indicas are very heavy feeders Sativas can be very light feeders.I can have plants in the same room and what may be good for one plant can kill the one next to it. As far as being genetically identical I'm going to have to say that no they are not, they may be close to being identical but in my opinion there would not be two different plants listed in the botanical society, one is Canabis Indica and the other would be Canabis Sativa . I have lived among these plants for close to 30 years and out of my own personal experience I have had to learn to read the plant to see what it needs. You can automate an entire room and you can get very good quality weed but if as you say you want to build a reputation builder then the only way you are going to get your plants to stand out on top is to give them individual attention and then you will get the true winners....

I suspect it's not so much that some plants are heavy feeders and light feeders; but that some strains tolerate over-feeding better than others.

If they have the nutrients they want, not in excess but just enough for any given period in the plant's growth, they all take pretty much the same thing. But not every strain can handle over feeding the same. Some just aren't as hardy.

Sativa's usually grow in areas where they are flushed daily/frequently due to lots of rain. Lot's of leeching, etc.

This is exactly why I like CRF and organics so much. It's hard to overfeed. You can certainly do it with too hot a soil mix, but a little care will solve that problem. The CRF's are nearly foolproof.

The whole pot-growing paradigm is based on cramming as much food into the plant as possible.....followed by a flush. I don't agree with that type of thinking, which is so prevalent in our hobby. I think looking at things from a broader, more scientific horticultural perspective is the way forward.

Feed em enough....not too much.

 

[Doc Bud]

Well, I have to say thank you. A month from today, a ballot measure will either drastically have changed my life (or left it be). The wheels are turning. Business plan's done. Even startup funding is close (these things don't come cheap - with a storefront). You, DocBud provided some needed early information and for that I am grateful.

BTW, your room is a work of beauty. No bugs?

thanks bro!
You guys have a ballot measure up there? Send me a link if you have time.

The bugs are all dead. I have not been able to find a living one, and I've been doing some pruning and examination on a daily basis.

Mites really aren't that difficult to treat if you have the right products....at least in the veg stage. If you pussyfoot around when the plants are young, you'll have trouble later on, when use of strong products isn't possible. So, hit 'em before they flower with a product that has good residual kill.

Problem solved.

BTW, good deal on ebay for a miticide trio: Floramite, Forbid, Avid. 100 bucks.

 

[wifecaretaker]

So Doc, when going 12/12 from seeds. Does FFOF have enough food for the first 3 weeks before transplanting to the OC+ blend? Will this ruin the whole 12/12 method? I read where first few hours of a plants life determines its qualities. I read Cees journal, i guess his seeds are lame? The miticide i tried was the SNS, no more issues.

wct

 

[Doc Bud]

So Doc, when going 12/12 from seeds. Does FFOF have enough food for the first 3 weeks before transplanting to the OC+ blend? Will this ruin the whole 12/12 method? I read where first few hours of a plants life determines its qualities. I read Cees journal, i guess his seeds are lame? The miticide i tried was the SNS, no more issues.

wct

FFOF does not have anough nutes for 3 weeks of growth in the solo cups. Also, for some reason, the plants get root bound in solo cups very quickly when using pure soil.

I recommend making a mini-hempy cup, soil on top, perlite on bottom, OC+ in the perlite.....or whatever food you choose to use. The plant can get much bigger in perlite, faster, than it can in pure soil.

You can also water with a bit of H202 which will keep the roots healthy and happy. I've noticed a tendency towards root rot and algae in the solo cups.

You could always use a larger container....but then you'd be throwing out lots of soil and taking up lots of room with males.

 

[WMDmountainIG]

I suspect it's not so much that some plants are heavy feeders and light feeders; but that some strains tolerate over-feeding better than others.

If they have the nutrients they want, not in excess but just enough for any given period in the plant's growth, they all take pretty much the same thing. But not every strain can handle over feeding the same. Some just aren't as hardy
Sativa's usually grow in areas where they are flushed daily/frequently due to lots of rain. Lot's of leeching, etc.

This is exactly why I like CRF and organics so much. It's hard to overfeed. You can certainly do it with too hot a soil mix, but a little care will solve that problem. The CRF's are nearly foolproof.

The whole pot-growing paradigm is based on cramming as much food into the plant as possible.....followed by a flush. I don't agree with that type of thinking, which is so prevalent in our hobby. I think looking at things from a broader, more scientific horticultural perspective is the way forward.

Feed em enough....not too much.

I have been reading this very carefully and trying to figure out what brings out the really exclusive taste that some really good smoke possesses. You talk about cramming as much food into the plant as possible...followed by a final flush. Some people may do this but I am not one of them. I feed with a very dilute formula from the very beginning, I never even get close to what the label says. The only thing is that I grow organic and from other peoples mouths not mine my stuff tastes exquisite.You may have something about mixing the CFR's with organics because I think the organics have something to do with the taste. I also use microbial supplements blended to my soil. I believe this has a great deal to do with the taste. It was mentioned that tomato growers do not change out their nutrients and no they don't but everyone has experienced the out of season tomato that has absolutely no flavor. The reason for this is because the tomato-growers find a formula that has everything in it to grow tomatoes and chemically the formula is all there. It just doesn't have anything in it to produce flavor. Your going to have to really think this out to make the microbes work with the organics and the CFR's, be careful with what you mix because some of the microbes may release the CFR's early and you wouldn't want this. I think it can be done but it is going to be a job getting them to work together. The job of the microbes in the soil is to break down the organics into forms usable for the plants that way the plants can readily absorb them. CFR's are made to break down slowly over time so the planter does not have to worry about feeding their plants. The problem I see is having them work properly because they are not designed for organic gardening...A solve to this problem maybe to use organic CFR's, they do make them, I am not familiar with them but I will do some research and see what I can find out about them. This situation has me very interested so I will be doing some research, I wouldn't want to see you run into troubles half way through your grow...

 

[wifecaretaker]

FFOF does not have anough nutes for 3 weeks of growth in the solo cups. Also, for some reason, the plants get root bound in solo cups very quickly when using pure soil.

I recommend making a mini-hempy cup, soil on top, perlite on bottom, OC+ in the perlite.....or whatever food you choose to use. The plant can get much bigger in perlite, faster, than it can in pure soil.

You can also water with a bit of H202 which will keep the roots healthy and happy. I've noticed a tendency towards root rot and algae in the solo cups.

You could always use a larger container....but then you'd be throwing out lots of soil and taking up lots of room with males.

Thanks Doc! How much OC+ do u use per gallon of medium? Do u place towards the bottom half of the container?

 

[Doc Bud]

Here at work I can't use the multiquote feature, and it takes about 15 minutes for a page to load. I don't know why, we have a fast connection.

WMD: There are several really experienced growers am aware of who incorporate CRF's into their organic soil blends. I don't think it would be a problem at all....just dose on the light side and of course, keep the environment in spec.

Regarding flavor: Lack of flavor is due to one or more nutrients being out of balance, for whatever reason. The microculture/soil web insure that the plant gets the nutrition it needs, provided the raw materials are in the soil in sufficient quantities. You can have all the bacteria/funghi in place, but if the organic matter isn't there, the flavor will not be either.

Plant food is the same way. If you have a fertilizer that has everything the plant needs the flavor will also be optimal. Good luck finding a fertilizer that is a "smart" as healthy organic soil!

So, build a really good soil, water with really good water, supplement with things that make sure the plant gets what it wants, when it wants it. The flavor is a given, barring other factors. (environment)

It could be as simple as adding a few prills to my organic plants. However, I'm going to wait on that, as the plants are friggin healthy! (just not as big or green as the OC+ plants....which are also in organic soil BTW.)

This process could take 5 or 6 grow cycles to dial in.....and many years to improve upon after that!!

Wifecaretaker:

In soil, 1.5 tbsp per gallon of soil, mixed in well should do the trick.
In an inert medium other than Coco, 2 tbsp per gallon should work. I'd put 2/3 of it in the bottom half of the container, but not at the bottom, and the other 1/3 in the top half but make sure it gets watered upon!

 

[wifecaretaker]

Thanks Doc, bought my solo red cups today. Getting the OC+ tommorrow. Already have my FFOF. just built my 5x5 tent, ready to go. Thanks again.

 

[placerville]

Hey Doc, did you look at the soil, from your last grow, and see if there were any OC+ prills left (it states up to six months when my grows last 4-5 months). I am just worried about trying a final flush, before the execution date, and still having ferts available to be drawn into the flowers and degrading the taste?

 

[Doc Bud]

Thanks Doc, bought my solo red cups today. Getting the OC+ tommorrow. Already have my FFOF. just built my 5x5 tent, ready to go. Thanks again.

Cool bro! I can't wait to follow along.

Hey Doc, did you look at the soil, from your last grow, and see if there were any OC+ prills left (it states up to six months when my grows last 4-5 months). I am just worried about trying a final flush, before the execution date, and still having ferts available to be drawn into the flowers and degrading the taste?

There were plenty of prill left in the soil. Hard to tell how much was in them, but I'm sure there were still nutes left.

Don't worry about the taste. You don't need a flush. Trust me.....or go as SS what he thought about the taste of his OC+ buds.

I can tell you that both his and mine tasted GREAT. Flushing is for people who overfeed. Not needed with OC+.

 

[molotov]

Hi Doc. Just got done catching up on here. Nice looking plants. If it weren't for the little issues we all experience with our grows, we wouldn't be able to learn and improve on those issues. Every scientist, engineer, etc. deals with road blocks. Doesn't look like to much harm was done so once the problem is figured out it might be for the better that it happened since it will add the the wealth of knowledge on here. By the way, I was wondering if you noticed if the plants in the hempy buckets on your previous grow actually grew faster then the ones you have in soil. Just curious.

 

[Doc Bud]

Hempy buckets grow faster and larger than soil plants. They also yield better too, all other things being equal.

I'm in soil for only one reason: taste.

 

[molotov]

I am going to try to get a little of both worlds. I have 2 ladies in 3 gallon buckets. The bottom half is filled with perlite with half the oc+just above the hole. The other half is a mix of Fox farm soil mixed 50/50 with perlite. The other half of the oc is mixed throughout the top half of the bucket. I did this to see if you could just start them out in their permanent bucket without having to use Hempy cups or other means of feeding. I figure they will get nutrients from the get go. Once the roots reach the perlite they will or should have ample oxygen and still have the reservoir at the bottom. This would also limit the amount of times you would have to water them. I know others like SS are trying coco and the likes but I want to see if this makes a difference in the taste while still producing good yields and rapid growth. Any advice would be appreciated. I'll keep you posted on the side by side comparisons. By the way, drainage at the hole is exactly as it is in the regular Hempy buckets. I was worried about that but so far so good.

 

[Doc Bud]

I am going to try to get a little of both worlds. I have 2 ladies in 3 gallon buckets. The bottom half is filled with perlite with half the oc+just above the hole. The other half is a mix of Fox farm soil mixed 50/50 with perlite. The other half of the oc is mixed throughout the top half of the bucket. I did this to see if you could just start them out in their permanent bucket without having to use Hempy cups or other means of feeding. I figure they will get nutrients from the get go. Once the roots reach the perlite they will or should have ample oxygen and still have the reservoir at the bottom. This would also limit the amount of times you would have to water them. I know others like SS are trying coco and the likes but I want to see if this makes a difference in the taste while still producing good yields and rapid growth. Any advice would be appreciated. I'll keep you posted on the side by side comparisons. By the way, drainage at the hole is exactly as it is in the regular Hempy buckets. I was worried about that but so far so good.

I think it will work. It'll be a good experiment for sure.

 

[Barry Manilow]

Hey Doc. I'm making some mini-hempy cups the way you laid it out in your Mk-Ultra thread.... bottom half perlite, then 50/50 soil perlite, then 1/4" just soil.

I'm wondering if this is still your recommended makeup, and if you put any oc+ in there?

I've had the seeds soaking about 20 hrs now, they're all still floating. Is that a bad sign? Should I wait until they sink or just go ahead and plant them?

Thank you.

 

[Doc Bud]

Hey Doc. I'm making some mini-hempy cups the way you laid it out in your Mk-Ultra thread.... bottom half perlite, then 50/50 soil perlite, then 1/4" just soil.

I'm wondering if this is still your recommended makeup, and if you put any oc+ in there?

I've had the seeds soaking about 20 hrs now, they're all still floating. Is that a bad sign? Should I wait until they sink or just go ahead and plant them?

Thank you.

Yep. That's my recommendation. I tried something different this grow and it did not work nearly as well as the mini-hempys. Don't be afraid to let them grow a bit in those cups, 7 sets of leaves easy.

And yes, OC plus will work just fine in there, just put the prills in the lower half. The soil will provide enough nutrition until the roots get down to that level.

Try smacking your seeds into the water with a pencil eraser....sometimes an air bubble or two clings to the husk which makes them float. I'd plant them ASAP, however. You want the roots to orient themselves via gravitropism.