MaxYields' First Grow - Warlock - Alien Dawg - Berry Garcia - CFL Closet Grow

[Graytail]

I wouldn't do it slowly. Jus' rip that bandaid off!

I absolutely hate stripping a plant, but once I get started I end up doing a pretty good job, and it looks better. You'll just stress the plant more if you're constantly clipping stuff off.

I'm not a defoliator, but a lot of people do it. I don't buy the part about how losing all that surface area is actually good for the plant. It just looks to me like another way to slow growth. Maybe you get a bigger harvest, but there are other ways to use extra time to do that. But ... I remember doing some research on plant hormones and learning that the new leaf surface produces growth hormone, which is distributed throughout the plant. The older leaves produce far less growth hormone. So, removing old leaves boosts growth hormone levels in the plant. Perhaps this has something to do with any benefits.

Has this ever come up in the debates?

 

[OttawaGreen]

I don't remember it was many years ago. If you guys are on the fence about it do a side-by-side and see for yourself. I did not see benefit, but many will vehemently defend the practice and declare experience to the opposite; so maybe it's strain dependent? Only way to find out is a side-by-side ;-) I also know that the plants were also green and healthy with hydro nutes wether defoliated or not but the defoliated ones grew a little slower made smaller plants in the same time for me.

 

[OttawaGreen]

Also don't forget, when you are working with 12 ounces of bud like I was it took me around two hours to do a full defoliation. So Adjust that time up or down and decide if you want to spend that much. Holy crap I spent a lot of time defoliating in the old days l. Used to have a couple friends come over and sit around a card table and trim almost all fan leaves off. They would grow back rapidly and green and healthy and we though it was working but after watching it slow growth or at least suspecting it I tested it out and Similiar sized plants end with defo losing but not by much

 

[Triggle]

Don't take it from me...take it from Jorge! (ad mins - my apologies if this is not allowed, I own nothing - all credit to Jorge.)

 

[MaxYields]

I believe that is meant that you have that timeline to defoliate and his method is usually all at once.

MaxYields, Personally I no longer recommend defoliation. I like to post the correct information and let you make the choice on what and how you want to grow. I say try every method!!! Thats what i do and always try new things. I HATE to see these growers that chop there whole girl up in veg and then post 2 weeks later "awesome recovery". This is kinda "ignorant" to me as if you never cut the girl up there would be NO recovery and your growth would be twice as much. Also, there is a difference in cutting some fan leaves that are shading than some of this defoliation i see on the site! There again i just try and give the correct information and let the grower decide their method! I know what works for me =)

I have saw double the growth rate and so much healthier plant on my current grow with no defoliation. My next upcoming grow will be 3-5 plants SCROGGED with no defoliation unless its some under the net small colas that would need to be cut off. If i have to cut anything off it will be one at a time every day or so. What i have found is the key is no stress and you will be rewarded. Try different things and find your style!

As always Hunter, thanks for your input, you are really guiding me in more ways than you know and I really appreciate it. I definitely do not believe in Defoliation during Vegetative growth, I prefer to spread and LST and ScrOG, it honestly makes more sense to me to just spread the Auxin love to all the bushy growth! I didn't touch these girls at all during Vegetative growth, minus a couple dead leaves being pulled off and the accidental breakage, and I love the structure of them right now.

I will probably be giving them a defoliation under the net, of unimportant bud growth mostly... however I might leave the healthy looking fan leaves and just take off the ones that are more than 50% damaged. I had planned on doing the Defoliation and it seems like the right decision for this grow.

I agree no defoliation. Tried and and growth slowed. Tried it side by side on a couple grows with clones a few years ago after reading the debates on the internet and thinking it seems like it makes sense. Saw slight decrease on yield on defoliated plant.
But I know how strongly many will debate it, perhaps it is strain dependant. It sure saves me hours of work.
Anyway I don't feel like debating its been done to death. Look up the debates and do your research and decide what is best for you. Hell do a side by side.

Was this with defoliation just in Flower, or in Vegetative growth as well? Because I didnt take anything significant off of them in Vegetative growth. I want to definitely do a side by side comparison some time... that would settle my mind on the whole subject for sure, maybe I will order 2 extra seeds in my next order to do this with.

Thanks you guys for the input, you have definitely made me reconsider so easily chopping apart my ladies. Will be doing much more research and trying a few experiments on my own time to see what works best.

 

[MaxYields]

Although I will say I'm not against cutting the dead leaves out and the areas where crowding has bunched them up I will cut a few to prevent mold from extra dense vegetation. On also thin the bottom as well to prevent mold but not bare for 8" like some do. My very bottom popcorn buds with no defoliation and not much penetration look like this. They say "if you shave it, it looks bigger"; and maybe it does but it's not.

Well that picture certainly gives me something to think about

However, the bud growth under my net is really askin' for a trim job, and I think I am going to. However I am thinking about leaving healthy fan leaves alone... it might look weird but I just want the growth energy to be sent up to the bud sites above the net, AND keep the benefits the fan leaves offer.

What do you think about that Ottawa?

And to be honest I defoliated heavy for years thinking the beautiful recovery of new leaves was great. I thought it was good because the internet made solid logical arguments for it. But I thought I was seeing a slow In growth after defo. so I did a few grows with 1 defo and one not to see results of slightly less yield. So I had spent many hours defoliation my plants over the years to get slightly less yield. Hope that can save you my wasted time by STARTING with the side by side

I do agree growers on the internet definitely put forth overwhelming evidence that Defoliation is a beneficial technique, and I have seen much evidence that it does promote vigorous plant growth once it recovers from its original stunting... BUT (and I think I mentioned this earlier) never a side by side comparison... which gets me thinkin' ::

Just skimming to get caught up here but eery thing looks great!! Nice job. That Mars is so effing sweet - I want one! I'll chime in a little on the defoil convo...got in a small debate on DK's thread but let it go. Haha! Unless you have to defoil to keep a plant inside of a small grow dpace, it makes no sense scientifically. A mature fan can have 20"sq. of surface area or more...chopping it to expose a few little tiny things with less surface area will stunt your plant. Period. Again, if you're trimming because of a size constraint or because you are trying to create a certain type of growth form then do it..but even then it will stunt your plant.

Enough of that. Thanks for stopping by my journal, great to stop in on yours! Subbed.

Trig

First off, to my Journal and I am extremely happy to have you, and all the advice you have to give!

Valid arguments, I also would like to get your opinion on my plan of cutting out lower bud growth but leaving lower healthy fan leaves Trig. Your input is greatly appreciated!


Thanks everyone for all of your input, it is all greatly appreciated and needed!

 

[MaxYields]

I wouldn't do it slowly. Jus' rip that bandaid off!

I absolutely hate stripping a plant, but once I get started I end up doing a pretty good job, and it looks better. You'll just stress the plant more if you're constantly clipping stuff off.

I'm not a defoliator, but a lot of people do it. I don't buy the part about how losing all that surface area is actually good for the plant. It just looks to me like another way to slow growth. Maybe you get a bigger harvest, but there are other ways to use extra time to do that. But ... I remember doing some research on plant hormones and learning that the new leaf surface produces growth hormone, which is distributed throughout the plant. The older leaves produce far less growth hormone. So, removing old leaves boosts growth hormone levels in the plant. Perhaps this has something to do with any benefits.

Has this ever come up in the debates?

Haha for sure, I will do it tomorrow... The girls got their Nutrient Feeding a day early as they really sucked up their last watering fast!!! I am really considering (as Im sure you've already read) only choppin out the lower bud sites, and leaving the healthy fan leaves to keep their benefits. What do you think?

Makes me very happy to get experienced growers advice, thanks for all of your input Graytail!

 

[Triggle]

MY,
my pleasure I love mixing it up with folks on here! I'm not sure what your goals for that are but I can tell you what will happen...

the leaves will supply the energy that they manufacture to the remaining bud sites...those sites will likely have larger buds than they would have had otherwise...who knows if that gain will offset the loss of whatever those other nodes would have produced...hence the debate we all continually have

a lot of info out there is knowledge from people that grew COMMERCIALLY and often illegally to supply the black market and turn a profit...a lot of grow literature still focuses on buzzwords like vigor and yield and ROI....growing a giant plant that yields 10 pounds does not mean you've grown the bomb stuff anymore than growing a super dense 4oz. indoor plant does.....Bottom line is define your goals before your grow, make a plan based on getting informed about techniques that foster the outcomes that align with your goals and get to it!

Every single plant is evolved from millions of years of evolution that has given them the tools to do absolutely everything they can, not to survive- but to THRIVE! When my plants tell me that they want a bud here or a branch there- I try not to argue with her. She's been doing it for much longer than I have!

 

[Triggle]

That sounds preachy...you're obviously a successful and experienced grower. Simply describing how i look at things when i am doing a grow...sometimes i need to make some cash and sometimes I'm growing the personal reserve...my strategies for each are unique from each other

 

[MaxYields]

MY,
my pleasure I love mixing it up with folks on here! I'm not sure what your goals for that are but I can tell you what will happen...

the leaves will supply the energy that they manufacture to the remaining bud sites...those sites will likely have larger buds than they would have had otherwise...who knows if that gain will offset the loss of whatever those other nodes would have produced...hence the debate we all continually have

a lot of info out there is knowledge from people that grew COMMERCIALLY and often illegally to supply the black market and turn a profit...a lot of grow literature still focuses on buzzwords like vigor and yield and ROI....growing a giant plant that yields 10 pounds does not mean you've grown the bomb stuff anymore than growing a super dense 4oz. indoor plant does.....Bottom line is define your goals before your grow, make a plan based on getting informed about techniques that foster the outcomes that align with your goals and get to it!

Every single plant is evolved from millions of years of evolution that has given them the tools to do absolutely everything they can, not to survive- but to THRIVE! When my plants tell me that they want a bud here or a branch there- I try not to argue with her. She's been doing it for much longer than I have!

I definitely understand what you're saying... I definitely haven't had enough experience to understand where terms like vigor and yield derive from, but I can assure that when I talk about it I am coming from a purely observation based standpoint. I'm certainly not growing to sell, I only grow because I enjoy raising these little babies and I find it genuinely interesting, and also to supply my personal stash. And if I have enough to gift my friends that wouldn't be too bad either.

HOWEVER, I am certainly aiming for a high yield... I mean I think every grower thinks about it to some extent, I am just being optimistic if anything! I will certainly agree with anyone however that Quality of end product is much more important than Quantity... but I also believe with my current set up there isn't any reason why I should get anything less than premium buds. At least that's what the "math" behind it all says.

I really appreciate your input, I also like, as you put it, "mixing it up with folks on here!" and every new person I meet who has advice to give me is a friend in my eyes. Never hesitate to speak your mind in my thread! It is much appreciated.

That sounds preachy...you're obviously a successful and experienced grower. Simply describing how i look at things when i am doing a grow...sometimes i need to make some cash and sometimes I'm growing the personal reserve...my strategies for each are unique from each other

Not at all, I would have never taken it that way! Like I said above, all of your input is GREATLY appreciated. This is really my first official grow so I need as much advice as I can get! I am always happy to have you stop by!

 

[Triggle]

Glad we're on the same page. And don'tget me wrong, you want vigor and you want yield no matter what but yes you're right, quality has a lot more parameters...as far as your set-up, the math definitely adds up and from what I see you are well on your way to some super tasty nugs! I'm jealous of your little closet and I've grown some great buds with MUCH less. You're in it to win it just keep doing what's been working!

Excited for your next update!

Trig!

(Why am I yelling?)

 

[MaxYields]

(Why am I yelling?)

The amount of Exclamation Points that I debate removing from my posts once I have typed the up... is staggering. But hey, I guess we are just super excited about what we are doing!

Thanks for all the compliments, I sure hope you're right, excited to have ya around my friend!!

 

[MaxYields]

:: Quick update ::​

Hey 420mag, so I usually do super long in depth updates and I am sure most of you hate reading them, so today I am going to keep it short and sweet. So let's get into it.

The amount of growth in the past three days on the Warlock and Berry Garcia is absolutely staggering, I haven't been to the grow room since my last update until today so it was quite a surprise. Definitely happy with how much tucking I did. The Alien Dawg is definitely done with its stretch and is just puttin' out Trichomes and Pistils at this point.

Today the pots were already dry, so I decided to give them their Nutrient Watering a day early, they all received 1 gallon Denver Tap // 10 ml F.F. Big Bloom // 7.5 ml F.F. Grow Big // 7.5 ml F.F. Tiger Bloom // .25 tbsp F.F. Beastie Bloomz // 5 ml Blackstrap Molasses.

PPM of Denver Tap after sitting in bottles for 4 days :: 214
PPM of Denver Tap with Nutrients :: 1440

On to the pictures ::

[COLOR="cc3cc"]Warlock[/COLOR].

Berry Garcia.

Alien Dawg.

Thanks for following along everyone! can't wait to see where we are in 5 weeks! I am getting very excited about how fast the Trichomes are starting to develop, I guess I owe it to FoxFarm and Mars Hydro. I am overjoyed with how everything is growing and I certainly have no complaints.

Hope everyones garden is lush and green, got an "experimental" defoliation session coming up tomorrow or Monday on the [COLOR="cc3cc"]Warlock [/COLOR]and Berry Garcia.

 

[HunterHunt]

Looking good!!!! Love the picture updates. I went over your feeding and i don't see a Cal/Mag Supplement? Since you are now using a LED you will want to add a cal/mag suppliment to your feedings. My self along with a lot of other here use the botanicare cal/mag. It works great! I use 5 ml per gallon and its under $20 for a whole quart which ive had for a year now. Keep up the good work!

 

[Seraphim]

That scrog is going to look amazing once mature and full of monster buds! Everything looks so good!!

 

[OttawaGreen]

Way back several posts ago you asked about cutting under the screen and I will say yes to that. it doesn't have to be bald but you don't want much tight growth in there where airflow could be reduced to mold. Though I like to have a fan under my canopy as well. Good luck with it, it's going to be great!

 

[MaxYields]

Looking good!!!! Love the picture updates. I went over your feeding and i don't see a Cal/Mag Supplement? Since you are now using a LED you will want to add a cal/mag suppliment to your feedings. My self along with a lot of other here use the botanicare cal/mag. It works great! I use 5 ml per gallon and its under $20 for a whole quart which ive had for a year now. Keep up the good work!

Hey Hunter!! Thank you very much sir, I love the picture updates as well... the photo shoot is usually pretty fun as well, for myself AND the ladies haha.

On the Cal-Mag note, its funny you should mention it actually, I have been using Botanicare Cal-Mag Plus and it has been working perfectly.. I have not seen a single deficiency in any of the ladies at all this entire grow (except when I got carried away with nutes and Alien Dawg had a bit of a N Abundance). I will say thought the last two waterings, I have forgot to use it in the actual watering.... However, on Wednesday (their in between feeding watering.) I gave them each half a gallon of water, and then a "Foliar Feeding today Wednesday January 21 : 1 qt Denver Tap // .5 ml Super Thrive // 2 ml Cal-Mag Plus" (copied from my last update).

I really loved the way the ladies reacted to their Foliar Feeding, and I think that is how I am going to give them their Cal-Mag supplements that way from now on.. Before that I had been incorporating it in my Nutrient Feedings at 3-5ml a gallon, and on top of that the Dolomite Lime that you suggested I mix into my soil has a great abundance of both Calcium and Magnesium... at least that what the package said. And I believe it is slowly released through the soils life. So with all of that in mind I am hoping I don't run into any Cal-Mag deficiencies.

If you have any input I would be more than happy to hear it! for stopping buy hunter

That scrog is going to look amazing once mature and full of monster buds! Everything looks so good!!

You don't gotta tell me twice my friend!!!! I can't stop thinking about the forest of trees that will soon be residing in my Grow Tent!! Thanks a lot for the continued encouragement Seraphim, hope your garden is just as awesome as ever!

Way back several posts ago you asked about cutting under the screen and I will say yes to that. it doesn't have to be bald but you don't want much tight growth in there where airflow could be reduced to mold. Though I like to have a fan under my canopy as well. Good luck with it, it's going to be great!

Thanks for the response, I really appreciate you lookin' all the way back there to make sure my questions where answered! I'm glad you are behind the under-Trellis defoliation... And I must say now that I have a lot of Anti-Defoliation talk goin' on in my thread I myself am hesitant. I definitely think I am going to leave all of the healthy Fan Leaves and just remove the bud sites. I would prefer none under the net.

Thanks for all of your help sir!

 

[thegift]

looking soooo goood! that dark GREEN with capitals!

 

[HunterHunt]

I must have missed that sorry MaxYields! Is the superthrive and calmag ok to foliar feed during flower? Im always funny about that stuff once im in flower! I know the plant takes the nutrients up through the roots but just the idea of spraying nutrients on my flowers make me hesitant. I have started using a Aquashield foliar spray during veg and liking the results!

 

[MaxYields]

I must have missed that sorry MaxYields! Is the superthrive and calmag ok to foliar feed during flower? Im always funny about that stuff once im in flower! I know the plant takes the nutrients up through the roots but just the idea of spraying nutrients on my flowers make me hesitant. I have started using a Aquashield foliar spray during veg and liking the results!

No worries my man! I know what reading through Journals is like!

And I know for sure that many growers use Cal-Mag in foliar sprays, and so far I haven't seen anyone or anything that tells me I shouldn't so I think it is okay. I would also imagine the Super-Thrive being alright as well, as it is just Vitamin b12 (I think?)... I might go do some research now just to make sure, but so far they look as though they love it.

What is the aim of your Auaashield Foliar Spray?