Lookout Bro
New Member
Thanks, and I have them on an 18/6 schedule. That was a nice auto grow by the way Denise. I am turning the switch ON now! Its day 27 from germination. Love the LED light I purchased and so does my plants.
Mars-Hydro LED Grow Light Discussion
- Thread starter Mars Hydro
- Start date
16/8 huh? interesting. I wonder how they came up with that. I'd like to think it comes from the origins of the ruderalis variety. There is a discussion going on in another thread about this same topic. MrRobert420 brought to my attention C3 vs C4 plants. Cannabis is a C4 plant and therefore, doesn't 'need' the dark cycle like a C3 plant. Granted, we're discussing the veg cycle. I'm just interested in how an auto would fit into the discussion. I've never grown one. I understand how they work, but it seems unatural to me. 
I'm even wary of femenized seeds. In fact, it worries me that these 'altered' genetics will make their way into the 'normal' pool. I'm not even 100% sure the seeds available now aren't already suspect. I guess I have the same feelings about the femmed and auto seeds as some folks have about GMO crops. 
I'm even wary of femenized seeds. In fact, it worries me that these 'altered' genetics will make their way into the 'normal' pool. I'm not even 100% sure the seeds available now aren't already suspect. I guess I have the same feelings about the femmed and auto seeds as some folks have about GMO crops. 
Dennise
Well-Known Member
Thank you b... 18 hours is the average time most folks run their lights for veg... with an auto you never switch to the bloom light schedule of 12/12. You just leave your light on the 16/8 schedule the whole way through.....
This is Sara's thread for her lights, not to discuss photo periods, but...
I'll just say that the C3 and C4 plant type info was new to me. I don't believe this was part of human understanding when I took botany in the 90's. This led me to think that a lot of my thoughts on photo period could be based on some incorrect base assumptions. I thought all plants need dark for the 'dark cycle' park of the Calvin/Krebs cycle (I forget who is who). From what I understand of the C3 vs C4, there are actually 2 very different plant physiologies. One that does need dark, and one that doesn't. Cannabis falls into that later category.
I understand what you're all saying. I'm just speculating about these #s. Based on the discussion in the other thread, I'm planning to runs some experiments to test 24 hours lights on vs GLR for veg growth. Assuming I see any difference, I may expand the test to include other light cycles. It will take a long time as each experiment will take 6 weeks and I'd like to run each test more than once to see that I get repeatable results. It could take years, literally.
I'll just say that the C3 and C4 plant type info was new to me. I don't believe this was part of human understanding when I took botany in the 90's. This led me to think that a lot of my thoughts on photo period could be based on some incorrect base assumptions. I thought all plants need dark for the 'dark cycle' park of the Calvin/Krebs cycle (I forget who is who). From what I understand of the C3 vs C4, there are actually 2 very different plant physiologies. One that does need dark, and one that doesn't. Cannabis falls into that later category.
I understand what you're all saying. I'm just speculating about these #s. Based on the discussion in the other thread, I'm planning to runs some experiments to test 24 hours lights on vs GLR for veg growth. Assuming I see any difference, I may expand the test to include other light cycles. It will take a long time as each experiment will take 6 weeks and I'd like to run each test more than once to see that I get repeatable results. It could take years, literally.
k0ncept
Well-Known Member
Here is a copy paste of some info I have seen other's have good success with and will be trying it..
Gas Lantern Routine
Posted on April 2, 2013 by Samantha Hitchman
To grow plants indoors ‘It’s all about the light’, so we’re told. So for those of us with indoor gardens full of mechanisms and machines it is the humble plant that is the alien, and some would argue that in our striving to create the perfect environment we have moved far from Mother Nature’s design.
This is no more apparent than when it comes to the fundamental issue of lighting – the onus is nearly always on more. Here we will briefly look at the two most common and popular light cycles used by modern growers and then we’ll take a closer look at something a little different, a little older and maybe a little better – The Gas Lantern Routine.
So, first up the big boy cycle – non-stop-lighting in the vegetative phase. 24/0 as it’s been coined is exactly that. 24 hours of light through seedling to the end of it’s vegetative life and then 12 hours of light followed by 12 hours of dark for the rest of its precious days. It seems the common assumption by new growers who turn this way or even experienced growers who don’t know any different is that they simply believe that the more light a plant gets the better and bigger it will be and that with such a system they will have success. And they do, to a point.
Next in line is 18/6. Those who adopt this take the stance that a plant like a sweaty human after a run, needs to rest, and whilst resting it can work on cultivating the all-important root system. And there is definitely some truth here. Plants, according to nature, have a period of light and a period of dark, a time when the leaves point up and a time when they point down. This period of 18/6 is also followed by a 12/12 cycle until the plant completes its life. An obvious advantage with this system over the 24/0 is the saving of 6 hours of electricity a night. A big bonus indeed. But due to the way a lot of people begin indoor gardening, without wellies and a copy of Gardener’s World, these systems are often learned and taught by rote, learned from websites or chat rooms by the eager but often inexperienced – not actual gardeners. These gardeners or wannabe gardeners simply do not know the actual requirements of the plant they are growing. But the fact something bears fruit doesn’t necessarily authenticate the process that got the fruit and it certainly doesn’t prove there isn’t a better way.
It is actually not necessary to use such intense techniques to produce fully ripe and satisfying fruits and in certain cases and with certain varieties it is actually stressful to the hormonal systems of the plants. Not what we want. Over lighting a plant can stress them to the point where they underperform in regard to growth, taste, yield, the list goes on. Such under performance is then met with a need to give a higher nutrient schedule to help the plant reach a potential we’ve helped to destroy. And all of this at the cost of an ever-increasing electricity and nutrient bill.
So, is there another option? Put simply, yes.
The first place to look is the most obvious, the plants home – nature. Nowhere in nature do we see a sun schedule anything like 18 hours of constant light at a time and a summer day is generally at its longest on a 16 hours of direct sunlight. And even when the sun is out in these climates, there are shadows as the sun moves across the noon sky. Simply put, plants do not receive constant light at any point in their lives.
Recently I discovered an age-old technique, it was only a rumour but a rumour I pursued. The Gas Lantern Routine (GLR) takes the premise that the direct and aggressive application of light for longer than necessary can cause a plant more stress than us modern day growers think, and even worse, it can degrade the plants genetic strength.
So what is the GLR? A stark fear with many growers is that if their plant has a long enough period of too little light during the vegetative phase it will begin to flower, and that isn’t always wanted. However, those who discovered the GLR discovered that during the vegetative phase of growing a plant needs only 13 hours of light from 24. A statement like this, if true, which it is, will already be an exciting prospect purely down to the reduction in electricity and other common issues such as heat. But this will also read as quite revolutionary and go against the grain of the way many of us think.
The idea is that the vegetative phase is broken into four parts: 12 hours of light, followed by 5.5 hours of dark, followed by a single hour of light, followed by 5.5 hours of dark. The theory is that the flower gets ample light alongside plenty of dark time to rest, work on root growth, stem and overall structure and strength (things the plant struggles to do to its full potential when under too much light) and due to the single hour of light placed centrally in the second 12 hour period the plant is tricked and neither flowers nor hermaphrodites due to the light reducing what would have been a strong build up of floral hormones. Brilliant. In practice the actual growth of the plant isn’t stunted, as one may fear, but in fact it is accelerated, as are all aspects of the plants life. In fact it is believed that using the GLR can reduce vegetative times by anything from one to two weeks! Root systems build quicker and stronger, stems and branches are thicker huge amounts of electricity are saved and the heightened speeds at which the plants grow means more can be grown in a time period. It really is a winner.
But the good news doesn’t stop there. Things are different for the flowering phase as well. The cycle continues in a similar way, mirroring nature. By now the plants are supercharged with floral hormones and are eager to flower at the flip of a switch. The one hour interruption of the dark period has been destroying enough of the naturally occurring floral hormones to keep the plant from showing sex whilst the rest the plant has been getting has given it a build up of strength and zeal to finish the rest of its life. However the GLR, instead of flipping to 12/12 (the very border for where a plant will flower), flips to 11/13. This throws the plant quickly into flower the extra hour giving it the confidence that the time is right. The rest of the schedule is diminishing in half hour time changes mimicking the gradual reduction of sunlight we find on the hillsides of the planet. As follows: 2 weeks at 11.13, 2 weeks at 10.5/13.5, 2 weeks at 10/14, 2 weeks at 9.5/14.5 final week at 9/15.
The diminishing light in nature triggers accelerated hormonal responses in a plant causing it to flower with more vigor and vitality. This continues through the plants life until it has it’s final weeks in much darkness causing an explosion of extra fruit and flowers. The GLR mimics this with the final week or weeks being spend in 15 of darkness. This final period will promise results not seen using the common lighting techniques.
Understanding your plants is the best way to know them and to grow them. This important historical technique is more important today then ever. The cost of the light we run, the bulbs we buy can all take a massive cut if implementing the technique. On top of that issues of heat and growing in the summer are lessened, and these are just the extra benefits. We all grow to grow a good product. Using the Gas Lantern Routine you’ll grow the best there is.
Vegetative:
12 on
5.5 off
1 on
5.5 off
Flower
11/13 2 weeks
10.5/13.5 2 weeks
10/14 2 weeks
9.5/14.5 2 weeks
9 till finish
Gas Lantern Routine
Posted on April 2, 2013 by Samantha Hitchman
To grow plants indoors ‘It’s all about the light’, so we’re told. So for those of us with indoor gardens full of mechanisms and machines it is the humble plant that is the alien, and some would argue that in our striving to create the perfect environment we have moved far from Mother Nature’s design.
This is no more apparent than when it comes to the fundamental issue of lighting – the onus is nearly always on more. Here we will briefly look at the two most common and popular light cycles used by modern growers and then we’ll take a closer look at something a little different, a little older and maybe a little better – The Gas Lantern Routine.
So, first up the big boy cycle – non-stop-lighting in the vegetative phase. 24/0 as it’s been coined is exactly that. 24 hours of light through seedling to the end of it’s vegetative life and then 12 hours of light followed by 12 hours of dark for the rest of its precious days. It seems the common assumption by new growers who turn this way or even experienced growers who don’t know any different is that they simply believe that the more light a plant gets the better and bigger it will be and that with such a system they will have success. And they do, to a point.
Next in line is 18/6. Those who adopt this take the stance that a plant like a sweaty human after a run, needs to rest, and whilst resting it can work on cultivating the all-important root system. And there is definitely some truth here. Plants, according to nature, have a period of light and a period of dark, a time when the leaves point up and a time when they point down. This period of 18/6 is also followed by a 12/12 cycle until the plant completes its life. An obvious advantage with this system over the 24/0 is the saving of 6 hours of electricity a night. A big bonus indeed. But due to the way a lot of people begin indoor gardening, without wellies and a copy of Gardener’s World, these systems are often learned and taught by rote, learned from websites or chat rooms by the eager but often inexperienced – not actual gardeners. These gardeners or wannabe gardeners simply do not know the actual requirements of the plant they are growing. But the fact something bears fruit doesn’t necessarily authenticate the process that got the fruit and it certainly doesn’t prove there isn’t a better way.
It is actually not necessary to use such intense techniques to produce fully ripe and satisfying fruits and in certain cases and with certain varieties it is actually stressful to the hormonal systems of the plants. Not what we want. Over lighting a plant can stress them to the point where they underperform in regard to growth, taste, yield, the list goes on. Such under performance is then met with a need to give a higher nutrient schedule to help the plant reach a potential we’ve helped to destroy. And all of this at the cost of an ever-increasing electricity and nutrient bill.
So, is there another option? Put simply, yes.
The first place to look is the most obvious, the plants home – nature. Nowhere in nature do we see a sun schedule anything like 18 hours of constant light at a time and a summer day is generally at its longest on a 16 hours of direct sunlight. And even when the sun is out in these climates, there are shadows as the sun moves across the noon sky. Simply put, plants do not receive constant light at any point in their lives.
Recently I discovered an age-old technique, it was only a rumour but a rumour I pursued. The Gas Lantern Routine (GLR) takes the premise that the direct and aggressive application of light for longer than necessary can cause a plant more stress than us modern day growers think, and even worse, it can degrade the plants genetic strength.
So what is the GLR? A stark fear with many growers is that if their plant has a long enough period of too little light during the vegetative phase it will begin to flower, and that isn’t always wanted. However, those who discovered the GLR discovered that during the vegetative phase of growing a plant needs only 13 hours of light from 24. A statement like this, if true, which it is, will already be an exciting prospect purely down to the reduction in electricity and other common issues such as heat. But this will also read as quite revolutionary and go against the grain of the way many of us think.
The idea is that the vegetative phase is broken into four parts: 12 hours of light, followed by 5.5 hours of dark, followed by a single hour of light, followed by 5.5 hours of dark. The theory is that the flower gets ample light alongside plenty of dark time to rest, work on root growth, stem and overall structure and strength (things the plant struggles to do to its full potential when under too much light) and due to the single hour of light placed centrally in the second 12 hour period the plant is tricked and neither flowers nor hermaphrodites due to the light reducing what would have been a strong build up of floral hormones. Brilliant. In practice the actual growth of the plant isn’t stunted, as one may fear, but in fact it is accelerated, as are all aspects of the plants life. In fact it is believed that using the GLR can reduce vegetative times by anything from one to two weeks! Root systems build quicker and stronger, stems and branches are thicker huge amounts of electricity are saved and the heightened speeds at which the plants grow means more can be grown in a time period. It really is a winner.
But the good news doesn’t stop there. Things are different for the flowering phase as well. The cycle continues in a similar way, mirroring nature. By now the plants are supercharged with floral hormones and are eager to flower at the flip of a switch. The one hour interruption of the dark period has been destroying enough of the naturally occurring floral hormones to keep the plant from showing sex whilst the rest the plant has been getting has given it a build up of strength and zeal to finish the rest of its life. However the GLR, instead of flipping to 12/12 (the very border for where a plant will flower), flips to 11/13. This throws the plant quickly into flower the extra hour giving it the confidence that the time is right. The rest of the schedule is diminishing in half hour time changes mimicking the gradual reduction of sunlight we find on the hillsides of the planet. As follows: 2 weeks at 11.13, 2 weeks at 10.5/13.5, 2 weeks at 10/14, 2 weeks at 9.5/14.5 final week at 9/15.
The diminishing light in nature triggers accelerated hormonal responses in a plant causing it to flower with more vigor and vitality. This continues through the plants life until it has it’s final weeks in much darkness causing an explosion of extra fruit and flowers. The GLR mimics this with the final week or weeks being spend in 15 of darkness. This final period will promise results not seen using the common lighting techniques.
Understanding your plants is the best way to know them and to grow them. This important historical technique is more important today then ever. The cost of the light we run, the bulbs we buy can all take a massive cut if implementing the technique. On top of that issues of heat and growing in the summer are lessened, and these are just the extra benefits. We all grow to grow a good product. Using the Gas Lantern Routine you’ll grow the best there is.
Vegetative:
12 on
5.5 off
1 on
5.5 off
Flower
11/13 2 weeks
10.5/13.5 2 weeks
10/14 2 weeks
9.5/14.5 2 weeks
9 till finish
I use GLR for my veg area. It works great. That last part I can't do with a perpetual flowering room. Mine looks like this:
Veg - GLR
Flower - 12/12
I have done some experimenting with diminishing light cycles. It 'may' make them finish sooner, but I'm not sure that's desirable. The longer they grow, the bigger the buds, no? I'd be interested to see some experiments on this, but flower experiments are notoriously difficult to control. My sense was that the diminishing light cycle hurt my yields, but this was not a very reliable experiment.
Dave Groomer
Well-Known Member
I am doing the same. GLR in Veg and 12/12 in flower. The plants seem to do well and it saves electricity!!!
Supergroomer
Supergroomer
I use GLR for my veg area. It works great. That last part I can't do with a perpetual flowering room. Mine looks like this:
Veg - GLR
Flower - 12/12
I have done some experimenting with diminishing light cycles. It 'may' make them finish sooner, but I'm not sure that's desirable. The longer they grow, the bigger the buds, no? I'd be interested to see some experiments on this, but flower experiments are notoriously difficult to control. My sense was that the diminishing light cycle hurt my yields, but this was not a very reliable experiment.
k0ncept
Well-Known Member
Will GLR work over my EZ cloner too? or should I pull it from my veg tent and leave it 18/6?
Dave Groomer
Well-Known Member
I did the GLR in my Veg closet and I had 3 plants vegging, 4 clones and 1 seedling. All are doing well. I am no expert. This is my first time trying this but so far everything looks good. You can see my grow here.
Supergroomer
Gfcollective
New Member
Moved my light 18" above canopy. this pic was taken right before i decided to move the light up as far as i could rig it so. my 1600 now sits about 5" from the top of my tent, i have a powerfull fan blowing directly on it to keep the heat from lingering on the top.
This pic the canopy is around 15 and flowers still are far from full development. so i moved the light a extra 3 inches up with the new rigged system im using for hanging, i will take pictures of later. hoping this will be enough, but i do feel like i may have some burnt or bleached tips in the near future. with how powerful the 5w chip is.. but time will tell.
This picture will show you Flower Development at 22-23 inches from the mars, light breaking through about 4-6 inches of canopy sorry for the sideways pic, uploaded from phone
This picture will show you Flower Development at 34-36 inches away, light breaking through about 15-20 inches of canopy
Definitely not as thick down below as i would like, but as bushy as this jungle is and how thick that canopy space is, its getting better growth then anything ive seen with hps (best i was able to get a hps close to the canopy was 10" and that was using a max fan) hoping when these flowers stop growing i can have them within 8-12 inches without bleach. we shall see.
You should be OK.
My veg lights are GLR, and the clones sit near them, but I also try to leave the lights on down there (just a few CFLs on ceiling) while I have clones going. I forget a lot, so they seem to be fine with just the GLR pattern. Then again, I'm down there all the time, so they would rarely get an uninterrupted GLR.
Clones aren't really photosynthesizing, and you don't really want them to. They need to make roots first! Just make sure they aren't in the dark and keep them warm. My last batch took forever and I couldn't figure out why until I realized I had placed them directly on the concrete basement floor. I normally have them on some foam insulation. oops
They still rooted with 100% success. 
I assume you're like me and look in on them often. It's OK to wake up sleeping veg plants. You're doing GLR to save the cost of running large veg lights. You could also just put a couple CFL's in there if you're concerned, or find out it IS an issue. My basement is basically 3 CFLs, the closest being 6 feet away! My clones worked fine and don't appear to be flowering.
- Thread starter
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Mars Hydro
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Yes, they are still at your customs, still hoping your customs officers can go back to work soon.
Christmas is on the way.
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Mars Hydro
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- #8,235
Mars Hydro
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Dear all my friends, our 48x3w reflector run out of stock in UK warehouse now, so if you buy now, you will have to pay extra shipping cost. 
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Mars Hydro
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Mars Hydro
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Thanks Hiker, I had a wonderful party. I danced all night, haha
Yes, 12/12 schedule is good.I'm glad you are feeling better.
Would have been a bummer to be sick on your birthday. I hope you had a fantastic day!
Turn it on now. So if this is the only plant, are you not using a 12/12 schedule? I would say as a general rule, if you change to 12/12 you should have the flower switch on.
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- #8,238
Mars Hydro
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Good day Dennise, happy growing
When I am growing an auto under the reflector series I turn on both switches after she is barely up... Just as long as she is stable.... and you should have an auto on 16/8 light schedule if I am not mistaken... I have only grown one full term and have one going now but I left the first one on the 16/8 light schedule the entire grow and it was an auto PE and I got 3.5 zips dry off her... I'm sure as always I could be wrong but I don't think so.....
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Mars Hydro
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Thank you for sharing with us, grow happy!
Moved my light 18" above canopy. this pic was taken right before i decided to move the light up as far as i could rig it so. my 1600 now sits about 5" from the top of my tent, i have a powerfull fan blowing directly on it to keep the heat from lingering on the top.
This pic the canopy is around 15 and flowers still are far from full development. so i moved the light a extra 3 inches up with the new rigged system im using for hanging, i will take pictures of later. hoping this will be enough, but i do feel like i may have some burnt or bleached tips in the near future. with how powerful the 5w chip is.. but time will tell.
This picture will show you Flower Development at 22-23 inches from the mars, light breaking through about 4-6 inches of canopy sorry for the sideways pic, uploaded from phone
This picture will show you Flower Development at 34-36 inches away, light breaking through about 15-20 inches of canopy
Definitely not as thick down below as i would like, but as bushy as this jungle is and how thick that canopy space is, its getting better growth then anything ive seen with hps (best i was able to get a hps close to the canopy was 10" and that was using a max fan) hoping when these flowers stop growing i can have them within 8-12 inches without bleach. we shall see.
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