Lexort's Kaneh Bosm CFL Garden

[lexort420]

As i wait for weasel to get back to me i figured i would share a link to a journal that is kinda influencing me to switch it up after these girls get done flowering anyways here it is Come SOG with Me - 112 Plant - 2 Liter - Hempy SOG now i most certainly will not be doing as many plants as this guy but i like his style. The journal is a little older now but still interesting

 

[MRXC]

Maybe a little late but subt im going to start up my prepetual grow have some amnesias in flower and starting northerlights soon

 

[Weaselcracker]

Hey Lexort. I'm a hermit too. Hermits unite!

Ok. I don't have OMUs depth of knowledge, but I think I do understand what he means and can guess at what is happening in your case. Keep in mind I always may be wrong but in this case I think I'm not. I use sunshine mix and rainwater. I am using almost exactly the same medium and water as you.

1 - You have probably mixed and ph'd enough nutrient solutions to have noticed this- the stronger your nutrient solution, as in higher ppm, the more ph+ (Or ph-) you would need to shift that solution to the ph you want.
Distilled water is very easy to shift and will only take a couple drops whereas a 1000 ppm nutrient/water solution will take much more. Distilled water should be zero ppm and is basically empty. It contains almost nothing of any acidic or alkaline substance and any acid or base added is going to have quite an effect.
The 1000 ppm solution is much thicker, and contains a bunch of (probably acidic) nutrient you have added. In order to counteract the acid you'll have to add quite a lot of base (alkaline ph+) to shift it. Understand?

2- Your pot full of medium (it's not technically called soil) has dolomite lime in there. The ph of lime is close to 7.
If you add distilled water to the potting mix, it's not going to have much impact on the natural ph of the medium (because of point 1) and runoff will be very close to the ph of the medium itself, which presumably is close to 7. Your distilled water does not have the power to shift the medium ph much. That's my guess.
If you add a stronger mix, for example a 1000 ppm nutrient solution, it is going to dominate the medium's ph somewhat, at least temporarily. The ph of the solution will be raised by the higher ph of the medium, but not by as much, and runoff will stay closer to the ph of the added solution. So it's more likely to be down in the low 6s as you said.
Does this make sense?

3- Important Point- It is safe to ignore the runoff ph.
As long as you don't have a completely screwed up potting mix to start begin with, then just ignore the runoff ph for now. Let's just assume that the peat moss, perlite, and dolomite lime is fine (it should be) and not worry about the runoff ph. Dolomite lime is not going to wear off that quickly. Do not worry about that. It's very effective. No you are not flushing it out. And I don't believe you are hurting anything at all by running plain water through. The plants do store nutrients and aren't going to instantly starve.

4- Even More Important Point- ONLY worry about the ph of everything going in. Period.

5- MOST IMPORTANT POINT (lol sorry about the caps)
Your ph is a bit too high! Yes hydro range is accepted as 5.8-6.2. But not only have you been out of that range, I believe that you should try to always ph to 5.8. Maybe up to 6.0, but 5.8 is the sweet spot I aim for. Some shifting will occur in the pot. We don't need to worry about that. A range of shifting is a good thing.
I believe this might be the cause of some of your plants funky looks. Please try ph'ing everything to 5.8 and hopefully over the next couple weeks you'll see improvements.

6- Re how OMU said not to bother ph'ing the distilled water. I don't think he meant 'don't do it', so much as 'you don't need to'. As I recall he mentioned that it could be harmful in theory to be adding more ph+ or ph- than you really need to.
I use rainwater only. It comes out of the sky at ph 5.6. If I want to ph it up to 5.8 or 6.0 then I can, it's only going to take a couple drops of ph+ to move a barrelful of it, as mentioned in point 1. It's not going to make any real difference to the plants whether I do or not.
However, I usually add a bit of calmag to my rainwater reservoir, and that drops the ph, so I end up adjusting with a bit of ph+ because of that.
You should probably be adding a little calmag too, if you aren't already or if it's not contained in your nutrients.

Hioe this makes sense. If not- hit me back.

EDIT- oh yeah. One thing. You ask, ' why do I ph to 5.8 when my medium with dolomite lime in it has a ph closer to 7??'
I don't know. But we should just do it and ignore that question for now...

 

[lexort420]

Ok i get what your saying weasel, i would like to quote from OMU its from page 5 of my journal i just want to show why i was confused.


"Distilled water is just fine. Should always be 0ppm and there is no real pH. Just give it to the plants as is. If feeding the plants mix in all your nutes before testing pH then adjust if you think it needs it. There has to be minerals in the water for pH to be present and as distilled has none and RO should have none or very little they don't have a pH at all but just a few drops of up or down will move them a lot so don't bother trying to change it if you are just using plain water.

L8r" thats from oldmeduser

 

[lexort420]

pH is a measure of potential Hydrogen and as distilled water has no ions in it, or very few, it has no pH of it's own. It also has no power to alter the pH of what it's used in and only takes on the pH that is already there. It will absorb minerals much better than tap water as it has none of it's own so for flushing it's the best to use.

If your pots are too high in pH and you put a few drops of pH down in distilled water the water may read 4 but those few drops of pH down will have little power to change the overall pH value in the pot as there are a lot more high pH minerals in there than low pH ions in a few drops of pH down. It's the limiting power of any chemical reaction. Hard to explain for me with a diploma in chemistry and harder to understand for someone with no training in chemistry. Not to mention it's been a lot of years since I've worked in the industry so I've forgotten most of what I learned.

Here's a good article about pH I took from a post here about Advanced nutrient management. You should check it out. It's mostly about hydroponic nutrients but a lot of it pertains to plants in general.

L8r

Water pH

A subject that is often discussed but rarely understood by many growers is nutrient pH. Generally, we worry about pH and its affect on nutrient availability. For example, if pH is too high, iron may become unavailable. Eventhough your nutrient solution may have an ideal iron content, your plants may not be able to absorb it, resulting in an iron deficiency: the plant's leaves will yellow and weaken.
On the other hand, advanced hydroponic plant foods contain special "chelates" that are designed to assure iron availability at higher pH ranges. The result is that your crop will grow reasonably well. even at higher pH levels. Nonetheless, high pH can damage plants in other ways, The cause of a high solution pH can be fairly complex. Most city water supplies contain calcium carbonate to raise the pH of the water and prevent pipes from corroding. As a consequence you are starting with water that has an abnormal pH, typically 8.0 for city water.

The best way to deal with this is to mix fresh nutrient with your water, let stand for a while to stabilize, then test and adjust the pH. With city water supplies you will often have to add a bit of pH down (usually phosphoric acid) to lower the pH to the range for most plants, between 5.8 and 6.2. (*note-Ozgrowa says 5.5-6.1 is best for MJ)

As the plants grow. it is a good idea to occasionally test the pH and adjust it if needed. You can safely allow pH to drift between 5.5 and 7.0 without adjustment. in fact, constantly dumping chemicals into your system to maintain a perfect pH of 5.8 to 6.0 can do a lot of damage. It is common for pH to drift up for a while, then down, and up again. This change is an indication that your plants are absorbing nutrient properly. Adjust pH only if it wanders too far.

A pH below 5.5 or above 7.0 can mean trouble. but don't overreact. An apparently sudden and dramatic shift in pH can be the result of a malfunctioning pH meter. If in doubt, double check with a reagent (color match) pH kit before adjusting your solution. Also remember that all pH measuring methods are temperature dependent. Read and follow all of the instructions that came with your meter or test kit.

This was a little confusing too i guess lol

 

[lexort420]

Btw welcome MRXC wasnt trying to ignore ya just was caught up in the discussion with weasel but ya welcome pull up a seat and get cozy thanks for joining in.

 

[VladimirPutin]

Subbed



I want to see those leaves perky again mr. lexort


If you are soil-less grower, your plants would benefit from pH range of 5.5 -6.5, and it is recommended that you feed them soluble nutrients like for hydro.

Wrong pH at the root zone will either burn the plants or starve them causing deficiencies.

Soil is a big organic dumping ground of microorganisms breaking down carbons for the plant to absorb

But soil-less is more like hydro in that you want your roots to absorb easy to digest things, like soluble hydro nutes.

Just wanted to add to Mr. Wheezle's fine information

V

 

[lexort420]

Well howdy there MrPutin lol thanks for stopping by. Ya i usually try to keep my ph around 5.8 to 6.2 it just seems that anytime i give straight distilled water then everything gets messed up. I use GH flora 3 part series which says its good for soil coco and hydro so i got that end covered. I would love to stop all the yellowing i experience and it seems to occur when i give straight distilled water and by straight i mean it reads ph7 0ppms. Usually on a day when i water with straight distilled runoff reads ph6.8 and usually in the 200s for PPM's which doesn't make alot of sense to me since what i put in is void of minerals and according to oldmeduser has no real ph.

 

[Mello136]

Subbed



I want to see those leaves perky again mr. lexort


If you are soil-less grower, your plants would benefit from pH range of 5.5 -6.5, and it is recommended that you feed them soluble nutrients like for hydro.

Wrong pH at the root zone will either burn the plants or starve them causing deficiencies.

Soil is a big organic dumping ground of microorganisms breaking down carbons for the plant to absorb

But soil-less is more like hydro in that you want your roots to absorb easy to digest things, like soluble hydro nutes.

Just wanted to add to Mr. Wheezle's fine information

V

GH Flora series???

 

[VladimirPutin]

yea, General Hydroponics or AN are pretty good if you have that thrifty spender cash to keep buying more when you run out !

V

 

[lexort420]

Its a three part system consisting of floragrow floramicro and florabloom

 

[lexort420]

O you beat me to it vlad lol

 

[Tead]

Since we're talking nutes..... I've been really happy with a fairly recent move to the Dyna Gro series. About 3 or 4 grows now with it. Quite happy. Easy. Cheap. Yup, happy.

 

[lexort420]

Which ever comes first either i run out of GH or just end up not liking them i will probably go with dyna grow I've heard nothing but good things about them lol. What ratios do you run?

 

[Mello136]

Thanks! I went soilless as well and thanks to you guys I now know I got the right nutrients. I also got cal-mag, bioroots (GH Organix), and Armor SI (Silica). My dirt is mostly coco coir. It was new to me the way it takes the water. Slowly but surely everything is mixed in pretty good. It's virtually empty in nutes so that's good. Something ridiculously low like .08/.02/.06.

 

[lexort420]

Ha i just asked on your journal if you have nutes in your soil thought maybe your seedling was burning up. Just make sure to hold off on nutes til you get atleast three nodes then start off 1/4 strength

 

[Weaselcracker]

and it seems to occur when i give straight distilled water and by straight i mean it reads ph7 0ppms. Usually on a day when i water with straight distilled runoff reads ph6.8 and usually in the 200s for PPM's which doesn't make alot of sense to me since what i put in is void of minerals and according to oldmeduser has no real ph.

What part of this is confusing to you Lex? Please explain so I can help. I'll give you my take on this but please do tell me what part confuses you.

It makes sense to me. When I (used to) test runoff from my pots I would also get high ph runoff. In the range of 6.6- 6.8. I tried and tried to lower it with no luck. It makes sense that a medium with dolomite lime in it would show this reading. Finally I said- screw it why am I trying? Ignore the runoff ph for now and just ph what goes in.

The Ppm is 200. That just means there is some soluble stuff in the medium and it's being washed out along with the distilled water runoff. That makes perfect sense to me as well. So far I haven't found the runoff ppm hugely useful either. I mostly concern myself with the ppm that goes in, not what comes out. I could see it being useful knowing the runoff ppm, but in practice it's hard to measure except as a very rough indication of nute levels in the medium. When I'm flushng I try to flush till runoff ppm drops to low levels. Generally I don't bother to test it. That's just me though and admittedly I haven't put much time into trying to perfect using the runoff testing system.

Worry most about what goes in and pay attention to that, and what comes out will naturally be fine.

 

[Tead]

Which ever comes first either i run out of GH or just end up not liking them i will probably go with dyna grow I've heard nothing but good things about them lol. What ratios do you run?

In full bloom or full veg, I'm in the 2tsp/gal range (add calmag, silica), so a quart bottle goes quite a ways. Younger plants less of course. I don't really use my ppm pen much any more... more of a plant watcher... but that would be different if I were growing an unknown strain. Cheap.... easy.... only a 2 part system... I'm super lazy.

 

[lexort420]

Ok so what confuses me is if what i put in on feeding day is 5.8-6.2 for ph and the runoff comes out within that same range my plants do fine, however on straight distilled water day it goes in at a ph of 7.0 and runoff reads 6.8 yet here is what oldmeduser says about distilled water............ "Distilled water is just fine. Should always be 0ppm and there is no real pH. Just give it to the plants as is. If feeding the plants mix in all your nutes before testing pH then adjust if you think it needs it. There has to be minerals in the water for pH to be present and as distilled has none and RO should have none or very little they don't have a pH at all but just a few drops of up or down will move them a lot so don't bother trying to change it if you are just using plain water........ So what i gather is dont bother ph'ing distilled water give it to the plants like it is, it doesn't have a real ph since there are no minerals present to give it a ph, yet i notice my plants do rough on a plain water day. Maybe im overthinking it as i usually do that but if the water has no real ph how can it affect my ph? If i follow OMU advice i shouldn't bother ph'ing the plain distilled water, if i follow your advice weasel i should ph it even if its plain distilled water. I sadly am in the position of trusting you and oldmeduser both and you both make sense to me but at the same time its conflicting information lol.

 

[VladimirPutin]

Always pH the water you are using, in this case 6.0 would be fine.

Just my two cents, but because humanity cannot even agree that the earth is really flat, just take my advice with a grain of salt

I never add pH down directly to the nutrient water, always diluted in regular clean h2o first

V