Lemon Haze auto issue of watering

[Aweedtec]

you still don't have a proper feed schedule.

i see multiple nute lines, many of which aren't for cannabis, a pile of supplemental add ins, and seem to be just tossing whatever at them when you think it's hitting an issue.

pick one nute line and learn it.

edit: the plant in the back isn't going to make it and at least one other is headed that way.

Totally agree with you as far as picking a nute line. I tried to order nutrients and they either come in way late or they don't have them or some other crap happens. So I end up when I start my grow at the same stuff.
Luckily in the middle of a grow we ordered gaia green and we thought we'd get it at the beginning but it got here after budding started.

I told you I don't have luck when it comes to stuff like this. I can prepare and prepare and prepare. But I wanted these plants outside this year and that put a dent in my plans too.

I think the lemon haze will make it I just don't know how the hell I'm going to get it there yet. And I think it's a medium issue really because it was mixed with the same medium as everything else and that damn bucket should not be giving it a problem but obviously that lemon haze Auto doesn't like plastic buckets.
It also doesn't like having its roots get hit at all. I'm sure I hit it with the drill once or twice. I tried to drill downward and not go through further than the bit would go but as that goes it's not very easy to drill and stop it from sinking at least a quarter inch in.

The rest of the plants are going to make it although they're going to be close. They always do that. Talk about the ones that are yellowing?
That strain does that to me every single time I grow it. No matter what I use. But it ends up okay in the end because for some reason it grows buds really fast and it must be saving nutrients for the buds because the leaves around the bud area go dark green while everything else yellows to hell. Like it's protecting the bud sites.

Let me ask you a question about autos....

If you leave an auto on 12:12 after it starts budding will that make it take longer to finish? Or should you leave it under 18/6 to have a better chance at finishing within manufacturers seed to harvest times? Does that make a difference?

 

[bluter]

If you leave an auto on 12:12 after it starts budding will that make it take longer to finish?

yes. forces it to take longer and will cause hermies easily. run autos on 18/6 to 20/4 to get a decent finish. don't change the light schedule.

Or should you leave it under 18/6 to have a better chance at finishing within manufacturers seed to harvest times? Does that make a difference?

give autos a minimum of 18 hours of light per day. no less ever.

 

[Roy Growin]

If you leave an auto on 12:12 after it starts budding will that make it take longer to finish? Or should you leave it under 18/6 to have a better chance at finishing within manufacturers seed to harvest times? Does that make a difference?

Power is so expensive here, I grow autos 14/8 or 12/12 a lot of the time
It doesn't make much difference if your roots are good
I can't grow big plants in my space, just my stash

 

[bluter]

Power is so expensive here, I grow autos 14/8 or 12/12 a lot of the time

running 18/6 or 20/4 finishes a few wks earlier and winds being the same or usually less in power consumption. there's been a few comparisons even here on the board.

part of the appeal of autos is the lower input costs including power.

 

[SmokingWings]

And I think it's a medium issue really because it was mixed with the same medium as everything else and that damn bucket should not be giving it a problem but obviously that lemon haze Auto doesn't like plastic buckets.

If it was the medium having an effect on a healthy plant then the rest of the plants would have problems in the same medium. If it is only one plant having the problem then most likely it is not a healthy plant and the medium is not to blame.

t also doesn't like having its roots get hit at all. I'm sure I hit it with the drill once or twice. I tried to drill downward and not go through further than the bit would go but as that goes it's not very easy to drill and stop it from sinking at least a quarter inch in.

Drilling downward is no different than drilling up at an angle and neither direction should cause a problem for a plant with a healthy root mass. Nor should the depth of the drill bit cause a problem. If it was the depth I would be in so much trouble since I will often use bamboo stakes to support some of the long thin branches. I push those bamboo stakes all the way down to the bottom of the pot. Sometimes I might even change my mind and pull the stake out and push it in at a new location.

As for figuring out how to keep the drill bit from sinking in deeper than you want the thing to do is find or make a sleeve that will fit over the bit. Or buy one from a hardware store.

Back to your plant. Why not take the problem plant and transplant it to a different container with fresh soil mix. Take it out of the bucket or pot it is in. Inspect the root mass. Smell the medium around the roots--it should smell like fresh damp soil. Look for dead roots. Look for insects, especially "root maggots" which like to live in wet soils.

If everything is OK then knock some of the soil mix off the roots. Do not need to take all the old medium off, just make the root mass a bit smaller. Transplant into a new container; either one the same size as the old one or a bit bigger. Use new medium and tamp it in all around the old root mass. Water it only if it needs water.

 

[Aweedtec]

running 18/6 or 20/4 finishes a few wks earlier and winds being the same or usually less in power consumption. there's been a few comparisons even here on the board.

part of the appeal of autos is the lower input costs including power.

I have looked at some sites to figure out a nute schedule for Gia Green for top dressing and cant find anything that I can be certain is for my situation.

It seems the one site I found is for using Gia Green when you reamend medium for another grow.
Then there is an area which does give a top dressing for veg transition and bloom but it seems
like it is saying this stuff last 3 to 4 weeks. But what transition is that long of a time period?


Unrelated. I know the plant you are talking about that you say doesnt look like its going to make it.
That strain does that. That is the second time the plant yellowed like crazy and never recovered.
It is budding but its clearly dying from the bottom up. The bud sites are smaller than its sister plant
and its in that forever praying as hard as it can mode. Also around the bud sites the leaves are white about
an 1/8th inch extending out from the bud site. The sister plant is budding fast. And they have exactly the
same amendments. Given all at the same time.
Its just that strain is a mix and its just not stable. Some turn out phenomenal and some of them just go whacko.
So far I have grown 7 of them. Well 6 because one I gave to a friend.
But of the 6 two did that and 4 turned out great.
What I am noticing about my roots is they never made it down the pot. I was watering way less than
last time because these plants soil were remaining wet even in cloth bags. Which was strange to me.
But they are starting to drink faster in bud. And that plant IS greening up around the bud sites.
The secondary and tertiary bud sites under the canopy in some places are growing and in others are not. JUST on the
yellowy plant. So Its a crap shoot with that plant.

I want to switch to Gia Green but the issue now is, without knowing what dosage to give them I dont feel like i can
switch now. I think I have to finish this grow with Dr Earth and then switch to Gia Green.

if Gia Green lasts 3 to 4 weeks top dressing Tbsp per gallon then it last longer than Dr Earth. By weeks at the same dose

 

[Aweedtec]

If it was the medium having an effect on a healthy plant then the rest of the plants would have problems in the same medium. If it is only one plant having the problem then most likely it is not a healthy plant and the medium is not to blame.


Drilling downward is no different than drilling up at an angle and neither direction should cause a problem for a plant with a healthy root mass. Nor should the depth of the drill bit cause a problem. If it was the depth I would be in so much trouble since I will often use bamboo stakes to support some of the long thin branches. I push those bamboo stakes all the way down to the bottom of the pot. Sometimes I might even change my mind and pull the stake out and push it in at a new location.

As for figuring out how to keep the drill bit from sinking in deeper than you want the thing to do is find or make a sleeve that will fit over the bit. Or buy one from a hardware store.

Back to your plant. Why not take the problem plant and transplant it to a different container with fresh soil mix. Take it out of the bucket or pot it is in. Inspect the root mass. Smell the medium around the roots--it should smell like fresh damp soil. Look for dead roots. Look for insects, especially "root maggots" which like to live in wet soils.

If everything is OK then knock some of the soil mix off the roots. Do not need to take all the old medium off, just make the root mass a bit smaller. Transplant into a new container; either one the same size as the old one or a bit bigger. Use new medium and tamp it in all around the old root mass. Water it only if it needs water.

I would like to transplant it but its an auto.,.. they say it hates transplanting and if I did I would have to uppot to 7 gal.
Only because the 5 gal are way shorter than the bucket I am using. Unless.....

Are you saying I can remove the plant from the bucket... knock some of the medium off and then just repot it in a felt container? If that is the case then I can easily do it because the height wont matter if I am knocking the medium off.

I was considering this morning that this particular auto strain does not like plastic buckets. My last Lemon Haze Auto was in the same plastic bucket and it had yellowing issues. My roommates plant was in a felt container and though it did Yellow, it was easy to get it back to dark green and it stayed healthy till harvest.
So maybe it just dont like plastic buckets.

I dont think its a problem with gnats or maggots. There is some fungus gnats but they are way more under control than the last grows. I have been checking all my plants for aphids and so far so good. I cant find any.


I have smelled around the holes in the bucket and there is no bad smells anywhere. The roots are white too. Bright white. But they do seem a bit soft. Which it sat in water for weeks un watered and not drinking. I always have ridiculous issues. I have come to expect it.

 

[Aweedtec]

@bluter When you see a plants leaves yellowing but is a really bright yellow and no burning at all... Sure its a nutrient deficiency.. .But why no burning? No holes? No losing leaf edges or leaves? Just yellowing without any other color.. What on earth does that mean? Normally I would think just nitrogen deficiency.
And since that plant, when it was very small was nearly black green... could it have used all the nitrogen when it boosted and finally took off?
And would keeping it on its normal feed schedule but add some worm castings at this point work to bring the leaves back to green? I have thought of adding worm castings at next watering. But I dont want to overdo it either.

When my last Lemon Haze auto did this I watered it ever other day for 10 days and gave it a tsp of Pot of Gold liquid nutes 1-1-1 and it made it nice and dark without burning it up. But the buds were more developed at that point.

 

[Roy Growin]

If the plant goes yellow from the bottom up, it's a mobile nutrient def
If new growth is yellowing or twisted, it's usually a micro or overwatering
If the whole plant is yellow, you turned up late
Feed it with something that includes plenty of Fe/K

 

[bluter]

If the plant goes yellow from the bottom up, it's a mobile nutrient def
If new growth is yellowing or twisted, it's usually a micro or overwatering
If the whole plant is yellow, you turned up late
Feed it with something that includes plenty of Fe/K

@bluter When you see a plants leaves yellowing but is a really bright yellow and no burning at all... Sure its a nutrient deficiency.. .But why no burning? No holes? No losing leaf edges or leaves? Just yellowing without any other color.. What on earth does that mean? Normally I would think just nitrogen deficiency.

see @Roy Growin 's quote above for a full explanation.
primarily it means the plant is eating the leaves for nutrients missing elsewhere. it will do it faster on leaves not receiving much light as they are lower priority, then move up higher.

And would keeping it on its normal feed schedule but add some worm castings at this point work to bring the leaves back to green? I have thought of adding worm castings at next watering. But I dont want to overdo it either.

best is to simplify overall. i'm not sure the castings will help as they can be really hot.

best way to learn a nute line is use the base nutes alone on a grow in your chosen media without any added castings, supplements, etc.

you need a matched set of base nutes to begin. if the base nutes don't do a grow well, they are not worth it. if they do work, you can then expand into what will work well with them in terms of boosters, supplements etc.

the most important thing a grower can do is learn how to read the plants.

When my last Lemon Haze auto did this I watered it ever other day for 10 days and gave it a tsp of Pot of Gold liquid nutes 1-1-1 and it made it nice and dark without burning it up. But the buds were more developed at that point.

you might try that. just start a bit lower.

 

[Aweedtec]

If the plant goes yellow from the bottom up, it's a mobile nutrient def
If new growth is yellowing or twisted, it's usually a micro or overwatering
If the whole plant is yellow, you turned up late
Feed it with something that includes plenty of Fe/K

It is bottom up. But it's spread because I kept the schedule. But skipped the nitrogen because of a past nitrogen issue causing Fox tails but I do think its still early so it shouldn't fox tail this time.
I guess I will just use the 1-1-1 and water skipping 2 days and give it a half gallon with some feed. It needs to darken before the buds get bigger or there will be yield problems I believe. And that will suck because its a small plant as it is.

 

[SmokingWings]

But it's spread because I kept the schedule. But skipped the nitrogen because of a past nitrogen issue causing Fox tails but I do think its still early so it shouldn't fox tail this time.

If you are following the schedule then you will not skip the Nitrogen or any other part of the scheduled feeding. There is no skipping part of the schedule and then saying that the schedule was followed. As soon as you skipped the Nitrogen you started using a custom schedule which is not working for your plants.

At times I have fed my plants extra doses of a Nitrogen fertilizer and did not notice the flower buds starting to 'foxtail'. When I saw foxtails starting to show up it almost always was when I let the plant flower for 10 weeks or longer.The longer the plant was flowering the more likely the flower buds formed foxtails.

There was one time when I gave the plant a dose of a high Phosphorous fertilizer at week 4 of flowering just to see what would happen. The only thing I noticed was that it started to foxtail within 2 weeks even though it was only in the flowering stage for 6 weeks at that point. I am going to have to try again.

I would like to transplant it but its an auto.,.. they say it hates transplanting and if I did I would have to uppot to 7 gal.
Only because the 5 gal are way shorter than the bucket I am using. Unless.....

Are you saying I can remove the plant from the bucket... knock some of the medium off and then just repot it in a felt container? If that is the case then I can easily do it because the height wont matter if I am knocking the medium off.

If you want to grow an auto-flower plant then you have to put up with the limitations. But, yes, that is one of the things I was saying. I only grow photo-period plants and usually clones. I can experiment and try things when something is not going right. Since you are growing an auto-flower you probably should not transplant if the plant is already flowering.

Yes, I have pulled a plant, chopped half of the roots off and then replanted back into the same pot with some fresh soil. It works so well at fixing problem plants that are not behaving that it is worth considering.

Which reminds me. If the plants that keeps having the problems are the ones being grown in the white bucket with the tape wrapped around it, then maybe it is that there is something wrong with the bucket. If the medium that does not dry out as fast as the medium in the 'felt' is in the buckets then maybe it is the bucket itself that is the problem and not the medium.

 

[Aweedtec]

Which reminds me. If the plants that keeps having the problems are the ones being grown in the white bucket with the tape wrapped around it, then maybe it is that there is something wrong with the bucket. If the medium that does not dry out as fast as the medium in the 'felt' is in the buckets then maybe it is the bucket itself that is the problem and not the medium.

Well I had two plants do great in them. But were photos. Then the last auto and this auto are doing horrible.
This medium i am using seems to hold water a lot more than any other medium ive used. My concern was watering too much and getting root rot. But its budding now. I am thinking about putting it outside because I have a plant outside in the same plastic bucket but with far less holes and the sun and heat makes me have to water it more.
Maybe the Lemon Haze auto would do well outside so I can at least dry it out and keep giving it 1-1-1 nutes every few days until it darkens some.

When i said I stopped giving it nitrogen I dont mean this plant. I mean I DIDNT give it more nitrogen because the last time I did that someone on this site told me that is what caused the fox tails.

I suppose there are only a few people I should listen to on these forums. But when I read something I hear it and remember it. And when I got foxtails I was told it was because I gave it nitrogen late in bud stage or rather too much nitrogen late in bud stage.

I gave it a small bottle of water today with 1-1-1 and the entire bottle worth of water came out. And I have it raised out of the drip tray now. So its either going to make it or its not. I have enough plants that I figured one of them would do this and I also have like 15 more of these seeds so I will just grow another.

I think at this point putting it outside during the day and bringing it back in to finish under the light for 18/6 is probably the best thing to do. The bucket wont be nothing but holes if I keep drilling it. lol

 

[SmokingWings]

The bucket wont be nothing but holes if I keep drilling it. lol

Drill bigger holes but fewer of them. Look at pots designed for commercial growers of any kind and not just Cannabis. These pots can have round or square holes that are an inch, or slightly larger, and none of them will have small holes.

I have several very large pots that are sold without holes. They require that the grower drill or cut their own holes. I will use a 3/4 or 1 inch "spade bit".

Think about this. Imagine that you can take all the holes you drilled and put them side by side into one area. The whole group would probably be about the same as a single 1 inch hole.

Maybe that one container is not drying out fast because it does not have enough drainage. Drain holes have to be in the bottom or right where the side meets the bottom.

 

[Aweedtec]

Drill bigger holes but fewer of them. Look at pots designed for commercial growers of any kind and not just Cannabis. These pots can have round or square holes that are an inch, or slightly larger, and none of them will have small holes.

I have several very large pots that are sold without holes. They require that the grower drill or cut their own holes. I will use a 3/4 or 1 inch "spade bit".

Think about this. Imagine that you can take all the holes you drilled and put them side by side into one area. The whole group would probably be about the same as a single 1 inch hole.

Maybe that one container is not drying out fast because it does not have enough drainage. Drain holes have to be in the bottom or right where the side meets the bottom.

I put perlite at the bottom..about an inch because I didn't want water building up on the roots..I did that to all the plants. Except the one in the photo. My outside plant.

I don't know what the sex of the outside plant is yet because it's not even started blooming and probably won't until Oct.

But if it's male it's dead fast. The moment I see one sign of it being male it's going to be burned. My night is Burns dog what with a very hot fire. So it will go in his barrel as soon as it shows a single sign of male genetics.
But I don't think it's male. It's too bushy I think.


Back to the lemon haze.....

I was thinking since it won't drain water and holds so much I think I'm going to leave it outside for the rest of its grow.


It won't be 18/6 but the sun shows as greater then 3000 ppfd. And in the tent it's 1100.

Over 12 of 3000 natural sun has to be better than 18/6 of 1100.

You can see all the holes in the bucket and that the plant has darkened up just a bit since it's first dose of 1-1-1 liquid nutes.

Hopefully the sun dries it out faster.

I am showing the outdoor plant. It's my neighbors but I am growing it for them because they will kill it fast. They have no concept of nutes or light needs and it has to be moved around the house five times to keep it in the direct light.

Also the other plant has way less holes in it and it dried up every 3 days.

The lemon haze just don't. None of my plants dry out by the time they need nutes and that is why it's been so hard to keep the weekly nute schedule.

If I had started with gia green it would have been way better for this grow because that stuff lasts way longer.....3 to 4 weeks versus 2 for dry amendment from Dr earth in the same doseage amount.

 

[SmokingWings]

I put perlite at the bottom..about an inch because I didn't want water building up on the roots..I did that to all the plants. Except the one in the photo. My outside plant.

Are there holes in the bottom or right where the side meets the bottom? If there are not then the water can pool up even with the layer of Perlite.

 

[Aweedtec]

Are there holes in the bottom or right where the side meets the bottom? If there are not then the water can pool up even with the layer of Perlite.

There are holes right above the bottom rim and holes in the bottom. There are 16 3/8 holes in the very bottom of that bucket and I increased them before this grow started. Also right above the lower rim right at the bottom there is 16 holes.
Edit: it's 12 holes in the sides not 16 but 16 in the very bottom. All 3/8

Then I drilled all those other holes over the course of the grow when it wouldn't dry out and I could see it clearly needed nutes.
******************
Below is info that is unrelated to your post. But relevant to lessons learned.

What I am learning through all this is probably some good info though......

Ultimately @bluter is right that Dr earth isn't for this. It works. And works well for a medium that dries out fast. But....


If you use a medium that dries out fast you can use a long acting dry nute like gia green or an every two week dry nute like Dr earth.

But if you use a medium that dries out very slow than it's way better to use gia green which lasts way longer and is only applied every 3 to 4 weeks.


So ultimately it's better to use a long acting nute like gia green no matter the medium.

But it's bad to use a nute line that runs out faster if your buckets don't dry out at least every two to three days.

So basically gia green is a much better nutrient line for either type of medium.

Dr earth is not good for mediums that hold water for a long period of time which extend past the weekly dosing schedule because you need water when you dose it. What is strange is I believed the plants were drinking the water and in one case it seemed it was drinking gallons of water every two to three days in bloom. (My first grow which was pure beginners luck) but much of it was being evaporated or drained it seems now. Since most of my plants now are doing very well but don't get watered much at all.
Damn they hold water. And all of them are in felt pots except those two in the photos. I sometimes tell myself I should just give them to my neighbors and tell them to finish these themselves. But my neighbors are all really good people going through some life changing things and I would like to take as much stress off them as possible.

 

[bluter]

oooh nooo ...

they've busted out and made it to the street !! run girls run .. there's a better way lol

 

[Aweedtec]

oooh nooo ...

they've busted out and made it to the street !! run girls run .. there's a better way lol

I drilled like 30 more holes in it because two days in the sun and it's still heavy.

I can't get no nutes in it if it's still soaked.
And I see the whites turning a bit to brown on the tips. It goes back in under the lights for the remainder of its 18/6 schedule. Just outside to dry out faster hopefully. But it's been 5 days since it's last watering and it's still heavy.

I don't get this because though some plants take forever to dry out some dry out in three days and they all have the same mix.


Question for you...if your soil PH measures 7.5 dead on and you water adjusting water pH to between 5.8 and 6.3.....can you lower the water PH even more to lower the soil PH or will it not work that way?

Let's say I make the water pH a 5.5 or even a 5 for a watering or two....will that lower the soil pH? And if so....should you stay watering at 5.5 or make sure its about a 6?

I use Humboldts secret phosphoric acid to adjust because my water on tap is 8 to 8.5.

 

[Greengoodness]