KJ's T5/CFL 1st Time Grow

[KarlJay]

Re: KJ's T5/CFL 1st time grow...

Hey you should look into getting a induction hood to add to your grow room.... Yes it is more expensive at first. but it will make your flower room go nuts and will cover more area better then a HPS will (dont get me woung you can keep your HPS if you like) Just add your HPS to the sides or mabe even angle them to diminish shadows : o..... so many posiblities it cant hurt your brain sometimes ahahh. but i am looking at geting 1 induction that can cover same area as a 600w hps would. Look it up and do lil studying and you'll know whats up!

I looked up the iGrow induction hood, I don't know if that's the one you had in mind or not. They want $1200 for one! That's way out of my price range. They didn't say exactly what the bulb type was, but it looks like a special fluro type. I don't know if it's that much better than the HPS setups or not.

Did you have a different kinda light in mind?

 

[KarlJay]

Update: Got 6 more bags of FFOF for the rest of the plants. That's a total of 11.5 bags of FFOF for 26 plants into 5 gallon bags. I don't know if that'll be enough or not, but should be close.

It's working out to about 2 5 gallon bags per 1 bag of FFOF. I'm planting them high up in the bag because this is where they'll be thru the whole grow.

I'll have more pics soon...

 

[KarlJay]

Ran short of soil by about 1 bag!

The 1st grow looks to be handling the fungus spray fine, didn't see any bad reaction. I'll have to contact the local salesperson and see what she says about what to do next. I sprayed all but about 3 plants (just in case) and so I'll do a full spray probably in the next few days.

The move to 5 gallon bags on the 2nd grow went smoother this time, no breaks. The one snapped plant from the yesterday is doing fine, the leaves are standing tall, so it looks like she'll live.

I got the game plan for the lights. I'm going to run rebar thru the eyebolts. This will give me rails about 1" off the ceiling, and they'll hold plenty of weight. I'll be able to adjust the lights as I want without drilling more holes!

I'll probably order 2 more 600s for this room and still have to setup some A/C etc... but at least the plants have some room to grow and light.

That DIY watering pump will come in handy with this grow! If I'm doing 8 gallons on the 11, I'll be doing 20+ gallons on this grow when they get larger.

 

[KingJohnC]

you may want to check out this thread i just read, it deals with powdery mildew and how the grower Van Diesel dealt with it. the grower Van Diesel also was recommended serenade to deal with the powdery mildew.

Sour Diesel #8 Indoor, 2x600W - Soil - FF Nutes

 

[jlt1202]

Re: KJ's T5/CFL 1st time grow...

I looked up the iGrow induction hood, I don't know if that's the one you had in mind or not. They want $1200 for one! That's way out of my price range. They didn't say exactly what the bulb type was, but it looks like a special fluro type. I don't know if it's that much better than the HPS setups or not.

Did you have a different kinda light in mind?

Yha that is the NAME BRAND version of it.. they were the first and that is like the Delux hood i saw that and its bad ass but you can get a complete set up (hood,light,balast) for 500-600. and when you figure the bulbs last for years, hps and mh are like 25-70$ depending were you buy.... you will have more up front cost but it will be less repairs and replacements.

 

[jlt1202]

Actually I would like more info. The site I looked at made it look like the dehumidifier was started out as a cooled coils and condensation running off the cool coils and gathered in a container. I guess then you dump the container to remove the water.

My room A/C does that, but the water is heated and exhausted out the back where you duct it outside.

I was going to run a test to see how the RH changes when I run this unit.

if you remove the heater on the unit the defrosts the condenser, it will just turn in a block of ice and stop cooling and wouldnt remove much heat from room. same thing with dehumidifier it will just block up and not get rid of much humidity at all.

 

[KarlJay]

if you remove the heater on the unit the defrosts the condenser, it will just turn in a block of ice and stop cooling and wouldnt remove much heat from room. same thing with dehumidifier it will just block up and not get rid of much humidity at all.

'Block of ice' is exactly why I had to tear my room A/C down. It stopped flowing, I opened the back, noticed it had a filter and that the defrost part was clogged up. After a few hours, it worked better than ever.

Mine froze over because the warm air wasn't passing thru fast enough due to the filter being clogged. The removal of the water is done be heating and blowing out the back which is vented outside.

This unit is about 15 years old and was used when I got it, so I don't know if they are still made the same way.

 

[KarlJay]

Re: KJ's T5/CFL 1st time grow...

Yha that is the NAME BRAND version of it.. they were the first and that is like the Delux hood i saw that and its bad ass but you can get a complete set up (hood,light,balast) for 500-600. and when you figure the bulbs last for years, hps and mh are like 25-70$ depending were you buy.... you will have more up front cost but it will be less repairs and replacements.

Ok, so what type of bulb is that. It looks like an overgrown T5.

 

[KarlJay]

you may want to check out this thread i just read, it deals with powdery mildew and how the grower Van Diesel dealt with it. the grower Van Diesel also was recommended serenade to deal with the powdery mildew.

Sour Diesel #8 Indoor, 2x600W - Soil - FF Nutes

serenade - Google Search

Great link KingJohnC! It looks like direct sunlight w/o glass is a great solution. I'm going to see if I can put them outside for a while today, can't hurt.

I wonder if a simple reptile light would do the same.

I noticed the PM on a few of the plants that were in the clone closet.

My guess is that not having an exhaust fan in the clone closet was the problem. I sprayed them a few times and they were closed up from 9pm to 9am and had their lights on till 3 am. Which would raise the humidity once the lights when off. (3am to 9am).

Although I had a fan inside the closet, it didn't vent to the outside.

I really think if I had my light cycles in separate rooms or just light tight areas this would not have happened.

So at this point the mistakes look like:
1. humidity too high
2. closet made of wood and not vented
3. fan on high, too close to the plants
4. plants too close, not allowing better air flow.
5. dead leaves not cleaned out from bottom of plant.
6. spraying leaves in closet with no outside vents.

Ok, lesson learned, but damm that's harsh.

Looks like serenade and direct sunlight or UV would solve the problem. The fungicide I'm using seems to be working as well.

 

[jlt1202]

'Block of ice' is exactly why I had to tear my room A/C down. It stopped flowing, I opened the back, noticed it had a filter and that the defrost part was clogged up. After a few hours, it worked better than ever.

Mine froze over because the warm air wasn't passing thru fast enough due to the filter being clogged. The removal of the water is done be heating and blowing out the back which is vented outside.

This unit is about 15 years old and was used when I got it, so I don't know if they are still made the same way.

GOT to think about HOW it acualy cools the air tho....

Your unit has refirigerant in it that a compressor pushes through the unit and makes pressure. it has a evaporator on the front of the unit were it takes in air that runs over the FROSTY (not frozzen or you will get not air flow, just the same as having the plugged filter.)
if you dont have air flow you cannot remove the heater because then you would get a ice block. the unit turns on the heater to melt the frost build up from the cold refrigerant that is pushed through the unit. the water is then fed in a container above near the heat exchange (the box you have outside your home or the part that you would stick out the window). then it exaporates the water using the heat that it removes from the air through the coils. if you have problems with any heating or cooling unit, first thing to check is your air flow of the unit ist self and check vents!

 

[KarlJay]

GOT to think about HOW it acualy cools the air tho....

Your unit has refirigerant in it that a compressor pushes through the unit and makes pressure. it has a evaporator on the front of the unit were it takes in air that runs over the FROSTY (not frozzen or you will get not air flow, just the same as having the plugged filter.)
if you dont have air flow you cannot remove the heater because then you would get a ice block. the unit turns on the heater to melt the frost build up from the cold refrigerant that is pushed through the unit. the water is then fed in a container above near the heat exchange (the box you have outside your home or the part that you would stick out the window). then it exaporates the water using the heat that it removes from the air through the coils. if you have problems with any heating or cooling unit, first thing to check is your air flow of the unit ist self and check vents!

That last point is where I screwed up. I bought this system used, didn't get any info and ran it for years and it sat for years. I didn't know it had a filter until I started taking it apart .

I've to a big todo list today, my RH is back into the high 30ish range, so I'll get to the A/C unit and see what it does to the RH soon. Now with the 2nd room going, I'll probably have to get another A/C unit pretty soon.

It would be nice if it dropped the RH by about 10~20%

I know regular A/C units lower RH, I just don't know how much, I'm sure it's based on BTU size.

My RH really isn't off by much, just looking to get from say 30 to 20 would be nice. The rest of the house is usually about there anyways.

 

[jlt1202]

ok idk if i have to read up more on RH but i thought 10-20% was too low.... i was under the impression that a 30-45% is the prime RH because it is closer to acuall RH in warmer climate areas where it grows naturally....

Plus a A/C unit is made to lower TEMP and a dehumidifier removes HUMIDITY. A/c will lower the rh a lil but think of it like this. you can have high humdity in the cold.... its called snow hahah.... but even in the middle rain can be in all different types of temps. Example, you could be in a 40Degree room and it be raining and 80 degree room and it be a desert.....

Only thing im confused with what is a GOOD rh and what is a GREAT rh..... and mabe what is the point that you should worry if your rh is to high/low

 

[KarlJay]

When I started back 3 months ago, I remember reading that 50+ was good for starting and veg, then 40~50 for flower. But several people now say 20s for flower because it makes it hard for most pests/molds...

Someone here mentioned 10% most others say 40/50...

The lady at the shop said the people in Reno,NV have no mold/mites because it's as dry as you can think.

Either way, I'm going to need more A/C, so I'll get it running and see what it does.

When I studied this in an elective class in college, they said colder air can hold the water, so the colder the air gets, the less water it can hold. I'm going to need colder air real soon. Around here 112 is not unheard of. I have a lead on a 18,000 BTU window unit, I'll probably look at this weekend. I have an 11,000 5,000 and whatever the portable is. So another 18,000BTUs should cover things.

Most A/C units are in the 10K or less range, so finding a good deal on an 18K is hard.

 

[denots]

can you possibly post pics of the ac units in your grow? Im wanting to add a 8k ac window unit but the condensation has got me on the iffy side. I have not used one since the early 2000s, but I seem to remember them sweating outside the house bad.

I guess I should of asked if its in a window or if its just sitting in the room first huh?

but if it is just sitting in the room, how do you deal with the condensation build up?
humidity is no joke where i live probably in the top 3-4 states with high RH so Im going to have to run a dehumidifier and and ac unit in the summer to help battle the Average 80-90%RH.

 

[KarlJay]

can you possibly post pics of the ac units in your grow? Im wanting to add a 8k ac window unit but the condensation has got me on the iffy side. I have not used one since the early 2000s, but I seem to remember them sweating outside the house bad.

I guess I should of asked if its in a window or if its just sitting in the room first huh?

but if it is just sitting in the room, how do you deal with the condensation build up?
humidity is no joke where i live probably in the top 3-4 states with high RH so Im going to have to run a dehumidifier and and ac unit in the summer to help battle the Average 80-90%RH.

Right now all I have going is the window unit. The portable one need to be put back together. The window units are designed to drip water outside the house. The portable ones have 'clothes dryer' type vents that put the hot/humid air out side thru the vent. On my portable one, you hook up a 4" dryer vent hose to get rid if the water.

I'll post some pics of it in the next day or so.

Right now, my RH is 35% So so I test it to see how much it drops it. I'm to the point where I'm going to need more A/C, so I don't have much choice.

 

[jlt1202]

can you possibly post pics of the ac units in your grow? Im wanting to add a 8k ac window unit but the condensation has got me on the iffy side. I have not used one since the early 2000s, but I seem to remember them sweating outside the house bad.

I guess I should of asked if its in a window or if its just sitting in the room first huh?

but if it is just sitting in the room, how do you deal with the condensation build up?
humidity is no joke where i live probably in the top 3-4 states with high RH so Im going to have to run a dehumidifier and and ac unit in the summer to help battle the Average 80-90%RH.

here is a pic of myn.... i have a window behind that wood that is blacked out so that you cannot see the wood from the outside. (plus on secound story so they cant see sh*%#t

 

[denots]

Thanks for the pic man, mines going to be in a closet so may have to install in in a washing machine pan with a drain. I dont have any windows which is good because nosey neighbors

 

[KarlJay]

Thanks for the pic man, mines going to be in a closet so may have to install in in a washing machine pan with a drain. I dont have any windows which is good because nosey neighbors

You don't want the water to evap in the grow room. The water/humid air really needs to go outside somehow.

If you don't have a window, you have a few options.
1. split system. These are small split systems that basically take a window unit and make it 2 parts. The 2 parts are connected by two hoses, 1 part goes inside, the other part goes outside. These are very costly.

2. portable A/C These tend to cost more than window units, you set them where you want, cut/find a vent hole, and you're done. Usually a 4" vent hole is fine. I've seen used ones at pretty fair prices.

3. Up the volume from your central air (if you have central air) You can add an inline damper. It works like a gate that closes off some air from going to other rooms and make it go to your grow room.


You might be able to simply add a 'booster' fan to your room vent and get more cool air in there.


I'm making a large window unit into a roof top unit. When I did my roof, I cut 3 vent holes so that I can vent A/C exhaust out of the attic. I'll take the window A/C and add a duct to go out the vents, add a pan under it to catch water, then duct the cold air where I want it. The whole thing will sit in the attic and I can vent straight to the grow rooms and use vent dampers and booster fans to control flow.


You can do this if you have a larger attic, most attics aren't very large and might not be strong enough to handle the weight. The exhaust vents need to be large if you do this.

Here's a split system, you can find them much cheaper, but much more than a window unit or portable.
LG LS186CE Wall Mount Single Zone Mini Split Cooling Ductless System 17, 800 BTUs - Amazon

Here's a portable unit, cheaper than the split system, but takes up floor space.
Amazon: Soleus Air PH3-12R-03, Portable Air Conditioner/Heater/Dehumidifier/Fan, 12,000 BTUs

 

[KarlJay]

Update: I talked to the lady at the local grow shop, if I need to respray, it'll be about 1 to 1.5 weeks after the 1st spray. No signs of PM at this point. Everything looks good.

Got a new nute: GH KoolBloom 2-45-28 I'm going to try that for the rest of this 1st grow. It's supposed to give the buds a boost and produce larger buds.

The buds are getting thicker and frostier, Trichs are still clear as expected. I'm guessing I'm 3 to 4 weeks from harvest.

Got the last of the soil and bags for the 2nd grow, they are all looking healthy.

Great news on the assumed "wind damaged bud" it's actually recovering!

I marked it with a twist tie and it clearly has new growth on the top. You can still see som of the damaged hairs, 1/2 this site was gone last week!

The pics above are of the same damaged site from last week! It clearly has NEW GROWTH on it and could be saved!!!!!!

Here's some Trichs, all clear, many more than before.

Here's some bud sites, much thicker, more developed, more frost.

Ok Denots asked about the portable A/C. Here's some pics. Again, this is an OLD unit. It's compressor based (Not a swamp cooler) and uses water for internal cooling of the coils. I think it uses the water when the RH is too low to cool the coils.

Pointing at the drain from the cooling coils above, water drains down this tube. You can also see the hot/humid air exhaust fan/port.

This is where the drained water goes to cool the hot coils, the water gets hot and is blown up and out that fan and out a vent.

Here's the hot air blower for the hot/humid air

I think this is when there is not enough water being drained down that tube. When the RH is too low, the unit gets water from a 5 gallon bottle on the front and uses that to cool the hot coils.

I'm not sure if the newer models use the separate water source or not, but this one does.

 

[KarlJay]

Update: Here's the light setup I was talking about. I drilled 4 holes for the eyebolts, ran bars thru the eye bolts.

Now when I want to move the lights, all I have to do is slide them down the bar. No more drilling holes each time I need to move the lights.

The other upside is that you can hang many more things. Before it was 2 bolts per light, now it's 4 bolts for everything.

I have 3 light sets going right now, but I'm going to add the CFL bar next, just gotta change out the bulbs back to veg bulbs.

You can use PVC for the bars, but I had this rebar left over.

One other note, you can put a bar side to side over the other two bars for something you want in the center.

All-n-all a pretty flexible system and only 4 holes to drill.