KingJohnC's Brainstorm Haze Soil Indoor Grow Journal

[Brassic Brit]

Hey KJC,

I found some time to come over here and see what's happening in your part of the world. I've read through both your journals and it seems you're quite the popular guy.

On the plus side there is a veritable smorgasbord of great growers and thinking minds who's input should make anyone's grow a resounding success.

However I am somewhat dismayed that those great minds with some notable exceptions are not making themselves heard in helping get some serious issues sorted over here. I'm sure John, you for one would love some positive input to get your girls back to a picture of health. Come on people do I have to say it those plants are still seriously stressed the upturned saw toothing on some leaf edges is a classic sign. Cutting off badly damaged fan leaves along with silly comments like “they're looking great KJC” has not resolved the problem.

In my view the basic functioning of the plants has been impaired in some way. Most likely light stress causing the plants to lose the ability to respire properly. So a new look at lighting at least to be ruled out first. Now guys you can jump on and bury me now. Or you can start banging your heads together and help John get those poor plants back to a proper state of health. Nuff said. Peace all.

 

[Cultivator]

I agree mate ^. Theres def something not right. Im not a soil grower so i dont want to suggest anything as i only know the basics of soil. But i absolutely agree with above KJC.

 

[KingJohnC]

the humidity in the grow area is low causing the edges of the leaves to upturn. a cool mist humidifier has been added to the grow area immediately in front of the air intake.

 

[Cultivator]

those curled leaves are more than humidity mate, thats just my humble opinion. my rh is at 22rh in my current journal in veg, im having slower growth rates down to that and some warm water temps but def nothing like that. maybe it is rh but ive personally never seen that from rh mate.

 

[ISEARCH56]

Hello KJC . . . .

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Subscribed . . . .

 

[Brassic Brit]

the humidity in the grow area is low causing the edges of the leaves to upturn. a cool mist humidifier has been added to the area immediately in front of the air intake.

Is there a general problem with humidity in your building John or just in the grow area ? My plants don't display such stress when average RH is down at 30%. Lower than that and I take a similar action as you to correct. An infrared thermometer is a great device to get a better idea of temps on the leaf surfaces.

 

[Brassic Brit]

those curled leaves are more than humidity mate, thats just my humble opinion. my rh is at 22rh in my current journal in veg, im having slower growth rates down to that and some warm water temps but def nothing like that. maybe it is rh but ive personally never seen that from rh mate.

Agreed

 

[The303Stoner]

Vegetative Day 39

veg day 39 what ???? they should be 3 foot +.

 

[Skybound]

I learned last night that low RH will likely lead to a K deficiency starting at the tips curling down and leaf margins browning/graying. Not to say this is the case here as BSH may be more susceptible to K defs makng the symptoms more graphic. It's worth investigating though.

 

[Brassic Brit]

I learned last night that low RH will likely lead to a K deficiency starting at the tips curling down and leaf margins browning/graying. Not to say this is the case here as BSH may be more susceptible to K defs makng the symptoms more graphic. It's worth investigating though.

Thanks for that Skybound. Now if more people will chime in this evening with some educated opinions I think John will get to the bottom of the problem.

 

[AfricanGrower]

I was going to comment earlier, sorry I had gotten sidetracked

I agree. This in my opinion looks like a case of 'hot' soil, which varies in degree depending on strain and what have you.

in this case it looks to be Phosphorus related in nature, and as others have said added heat stress could well have increased the rate of degradation. I saw you mix your soil with Gypsum. What parts do you mix, and what's the NPK value of your brand of gypsum.

I ask because this usually has high ratings of Phosphorous, and I have seen P lockouts look like this in my plants before.

I gave my opinion last month, and I still stand by my opinion of this being Phosphorous related,. Even though previously, it may have been a lockout, but THIS is now seeming more and more like a deficiency.

It meets all classic signs of a P def: curled leaf edges, tips turning brown and curling upwards, slow engulfing of older leaves (that you may mistake as mold...nope), overall slowing of plant growth, slightly purple petioles close to leaves.

Your leaves look exactly how my plant looked when I went through almost the EXACT same thing. Notice how similar our leaves appear:

I usually don't like being this forward about a problem when grower doesn't show any signs of concern about the problem. I do the same thing, but I usually am able to correct my problem within the next 2 days. This is solely due to the fact I am in hydro, and correcting deficiencies in soil takes much more patients. As Brassic said,

Now guys you can jump on and bury me now. Or you can start banging your heads together and help John get those poor plants back to a proper state of health.

And I mean all of this out of good intention.

This is my opinion on the problem and solving it would consist of a P supplement (such as a flowering nutrient) either being added separately from your regular feed, or in this case, since it is progressively getting worse, a foliar spray with a diluted mix (with distilled/RO) may increase the recovery time.

Now I know Sky mentioned a K deficiency. And relating to a low RH, this could be a valid observation. But, IMO, I think this is definitely not a K related problem as leaves would start to curl downwards, and you would start to see rusty spots develop between the leaf margins (almost like a Ca def) and leaf tips would start to turn brown.

I also had a K deficiency, and this is what it looks like at early stage:

Once again, this is just my observation, and I know King is an experienced grower and knows what he is doing

 

[KingJohnC]

Vegetative Day 48

Brainstorm Haze was watered with a nutrient solution consisting of 5 millilitres per gallon of Flora Gro, 5 millilitres per gallon of Flora Micro, 5 millilitres per gallon of Flora Bloom, 5 millilitres per gallon of Calcium and Magnesium and 2 millilitres per gallon of Super B+.

 

[Gozgrow]

I've read your other grows think ill grab a seat on this one. Wish I was more experienced to chime in on the issue.

 

[b.real]

I know you don't want to hear this but I would suggest transplanting into some peat based soil. go look for scotts premium potting mix and till it up with your hands, it drains great and holds air and nutes great. it's also very cheap, about $10 for 2 cu ft

the miracle gro soil is also a great texture, but don't get the miracle gro brand bag, it has too much nutes in it! the scotts variant is for people that like to feed, the miracle gro for the just water heads.

I would wash that soil off the roots gently. youll stop losing new growth. I think you'd really be happy with the transplant if you got some scotts soil or even miracle gro (if you can stop feeding lol)

 

[Brassic Brit]

Well John, the guys are making a start. AG that's some seriously good info there. Ultimately though John this is of course your call as you know all the variables inside out. I sincerely hope you turn this around and take the journal to a blazin' conclusion. Wishing you all the best.

BB

 

[closetorganic]

I saw improvement in last pics KJC posted at veg day 46 after AG had mentioned ,and then KJC said a P def was a concern . I thought soil or soiless mix grows take longer to heal issues at that level, It looked to me the new growth was good and could be outgrowing the old and ugly fans. Brassic Brits wakeup call to exp people to speak up was cool
The next photo update I hope to see more improvement. Oh yeah KingJOhnC did you try cloneing or topping them yet as planned

 

[TheCapn]

Hey brit, and all: I don't have any good suggestions here, except to transplant into a known good soil or coco mix, rather than trying to guess what is wrong.

I have been in and out of this journal, but if I remember correctly this was soil mix was not a "known good" recipe, and it was something that KJ concocted himself, correct?

It's clear that KJ grows for the hobby, not the end product. He is an experienced grower, and knows the recipe to get the end result. But, by this experimenting, you never know when he might find a great recipe to share with the rest of us. Thanks KJ!

This enforces the points I was making in my BLOG. Unless you have a ton of experience, and are willing to risk a grow, let the chefs (like KJ) cook up the recipes, and then follow by example when they produce a known good working recipe. Take a look at a grower's end result. If you like the results, then follow his lead exactly. If you want to change the recipe after you have a few good cycles under your belt, do so carefully. This grow goes to show, it's not easy to concoct up your own soil recipe.

The point I'm making isn't just for soil, it's for any growing method or nutrient recipe. It might SEEM like that "additive" would be a great addition to your nutrient solution, but many times it will back fire on you.

Or, use rock wool, and then you don't have to worry about a soil mix

Thanks again KJ for sharing your experiences with everyone.

 

[KingJohnC]

I guess you must have missed my post on 10/23/2013, the plants were already transplanted into a soiless mixture consisting of peat moss, perlite and vermiculite. the plants have been recovering and doing well. the plants are now receiving full strength nutrients. thank you all for your concern.

 

[TheCapn]

Glad to hear it. It sucks that it takes so long to recover sometimes. It sounds like you are on your way now. I'll be lurking.

 

[mcloadie]

I would chime in kjc, and the basic idea of my suggestion will work....for ANY deficiency. I'm only afraid that because I use this method in soil, as I have only grown in soil besides the rooting of cuts, that there may be some confusion. I would get the medium as clean of anything that was in there as I could........flush. In soil I would repot...up, I try to never disturb any roots. After they had been flushed, I would start over with a lighter dose of nutrients. a balanced nutrient with micronutrients. At the end of the day....I still would also look at it in this way; is it better for me to nurse these plants back to health, or can I replace them more quickly with new plants.....just my opinion! No offense intended at all.