Keffka's Recycling, KOS Blue Thai, Herbies Seeds Apple Betty, Runtz Punch

I smell some Bro science brewing!

:laughtwo:

šŸ¤£šŸ¤£

This is actually a pretty good example of that line. Bro science is: I changed the lights and my plants smell more, that must mean that more darkness makes more terpenes. From now on Iā€™m doing this and telling everyone that I know that this is how it works.

This lumps two things together. Faulty data and assumptions, as well as lacking current knowledge. Thereā€™s no way I could say that darkness is driving this. Itā€™s very likely just a coincidence in timing, or psychology.

Now for the lacking current knowledge which was my main reason for this response. Check out what I just read:

ā€œTwo independent research groups recently discovered a different type of chemical playing the starring role in marijuanaā€™s distinctly skunky scent ā€“ volatile sulphur compounds known as thiols that contain a molecule called 3-methylbut-2-en-1-yl (321MBT).ā€

This makes a whole lot of sense, because as @Gee64 and a lot of OG Humboldt guys have said, sulfur is the secret to powerful smells and tastes when it comes to cannabis. Itā€™s why I add gypsum to my mixes. The rest of the article goes on to cover other scents, etc.

This is what I was talking about when you and I were talking droughting. I mean hell weā€™ve just now identified the chemical behind the smell in our favorite flower.


Hereā€™s the article Iā€™m talking about. Iā€™m trying to find the study from the research groups:

 
Snapped a couple pics last night.. meant to take more but I was overwhelmed with a cold and tired feeling so I wound up falling asleep before I could water and take more. Iā€™ll grab the rest tonight

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I donā€™t know for sure on their heights, Iā€™ll have to check this evening at lights on. Iā€™ll reply back to this message when I get the measurements.

I may just be expecting too much out of plants that have been topped 3 times and aggressively tied down. I wouldnā€™t question it if it was just the Blue Thais but the Runtz Punch and Apple Betty both should be bigger in my mind as well. Again though, manifolding may have a greater impact on morphology than I am accounting for.
I might argue it is the three times topping that has created this. I donā€™t even really like to double top, much less triple. Every topping waters it down more, imho. My best case scenario is 8 - 16 colas, each with their own main branch to the main stem, all untopped except the main. No side branch colas allowed. Meaning Iā€™d have to keep 4 to 8 nodes. Iā€™ve never tried it like that but I will next grow. Right or wrong, I have it firmly in my head the belief that amounts to this equation: less topping = better colas = more stretch = more direct feeding lines and quicker and easier access to nutrients = no fight for dominance = less stress overall to the plant for its life cycle = way better end product. Or so.
 
I smell some Bro science brewing!

:laughtwo:
Well, I was gonna say that the increase in smell also coincides with the ripening of the buds and happens naturally to every plant alreadyā€¦..lmao!
 
Wow! Even that funny little girl has bulked up nicely. Didnā€™t see that coming. Very sweet. You have some monsters in there. Canā€™t you stake the little one up from below with skewers and get her falling over ring back up to the light? Or something? Jeez man, I thought you were a pro.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Haha! Happy Thanksgiving @Keffka!
 
Right or wrong, I have it firmly in my head the belief that amounts to this equation: less topping = better colas = more stretch = more direct feeding lines and quicker and easier access to nutrients = no fight for dominance = less stress overall to the plant for its life cycle = way better end product. Or so.
Why I like quadlining. One topping, a bit of LST and flip to flower.
 
Why I like quadlining. One topping, a bit of LST and flip to flower.
lol ever try quadlining a sativa from seed for 56 days in a tent.... times 4?

Do you guys remember when I was building my manifold, right before flip the tall pheno got too tall and I had to give it a 4th topping? That plant has the biggest buds of my 4 now. It's the one Jon drools over... all the others only got 3 toppings.

Larf is what detracts from colas.
 
lol ever try quadlining a sativa from seed for 56 days in a tent.... times 4?

Do you guys remember when I was building my manifold, right before flip the tall pheno got too tall and I had to give it a 4th topping? That plant has the biggest buds of my 4 now. It's the one Jon drools over... all the others only got 3 toppings.

Larf is what detracts from colas.
Uh, no. Indica's from clones for me. One at a time. Lol.
 
Wow! Even that funny little girl has bulked up nicely. Didnā€™t see that coming. Very sweet. You have some monsters in there. Canā€™t you stake the little one up from below with skewers and get her falling over ring back up to the light? Or something? Jeez man, I thought you were a pro.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Haha! Happy Thanksgiving @Keffka!

Ehh I knew theyā€™d fatten up absurdly large, theyā€™re 10 gallon containers, most branches are at least the size of a pencil, and the root balls are very big. I just wanted more height for more weight. I assumed the plant(s) would still stretch at least 1.5x but to be honest it didnā€™t look like they really even stretched at all, I would really just classify it as veg level growth, because it never even got that aggressive.

Indicas have no business being topped more than once, nor manifolded unless you have extreme height restrictions. I now know that for myself šŸ¤£ I didnā€™t believe a 10 gallon plant would stay that low regardless of strain. Especially because untopped the indicas grew one foot for every gallon last grow, and the sativas went double

Some times I have to burn my hand on the stove myself to learn my lesson.

Whatā€™s most interesting though and is why I think itā€™s related to quantity of light is, even the sativa blends did not stretch as high as I anticipated. I wound up having to put the sativa up on a riser just to be the same height as the indicas. Just goes to show, even when youā€™ve got everything dialed in, some sideways stuff is always waiting around the corner šŸ˜‚

Thereā€™s no need to stake the plants when youā€™re a pro and grow strong enough branches from the start šŸ’ŖšŸ» šŸ¤£ Peoples uncles will be leaning more than my plants this thanksgiving
 
Right or wrong, I have it firmly in my head the belief that amounts to this equation: less topping = better colas = more stretch = more direct feeding lines and quicker and easier access to nutrients = no fight for dominance = less stress overall to the plant for its life cycle = way better end product. Or so.

Wrongish and I will explain why. Please ask any questions or challenge anything Iā€™ve said that you donā€™t agree with

ā€œBetter colasā€ is subjective. What do you mean by better? Bigger? Light exposure? You tread in dangerous territory making colas larger than the environment can handle. If they bulk too much and you donā€™t have a plan in place, bud rot can rip through your entire grow quickly. It was my biggest concern going into this grow. Once colas reach a certain mass it becomes almost impossible to get full airflow in there. It also becomes very difficult to dry them evenly when theyā€™re very big.

Direct feeding lines/access to nutrients:
This one is a little less subjective. Take a look at your plants. If you look at the way the nodes grow you will almost always find that your third or fourth node is the node that grows longest/largest aside from the main. Itā€™s typically the one that comes out from the center and raises way up. The third/fourth node gets a massive pipeline for nutrients. Hereā€™s an example:

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The third and fourth node on this plant have colas that are almost 3x as long/large as the next closest cola. They even rival the main cola. However you can tell the main cola gets a lot of the nutrition as well, due to it being the apical dominant part, itā€™s much fatter than the others.

This leads into the dominance argument. Using only the third node as the main pipeline gives each cola from that node access to almost equivalent resources, and a massive amount at that. Cannabis is an apical growth plant. Meaning the majority of its resources are going to go to the highest point. So if the third and fourth are pumping like that when thereā€™s a main bud, removing the main bud redirect those resources making them grow even better.

If you take out the singular highest point and replace it with 8 colas all at equivalent height, none will gain dominance and they all will get equal resources. This is why tying the branches down to keep the colas even is super important. It stops any of the colas from gaining more than the others. This is all controlled by hormones and cells in the tips of your branches. Itā€™s a difficult fight some times. If you allow your ends to raise up as they naturally want to you will see those 4 grab dominance and become much larger than the other 4. Hereā€™s an example of a plant that wasnā€™t tied down properly

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If these wouldā€™ve been kept tied down and even theyā€™d all be much more equal

All of that aside, thereā€™s been quite a few comparison grows done from quite a few breeders that have shown the difference between topped and untopped plants is typically negligible in terms of quality and weight with all other things equal.

When under an LED, you need to maximize the amount of light that hits the plant. The difference even six inches of height makes in terms of DLI for my plants is incredible. I need equal light to hit as much as possible without frying or stunting and 6 inches can some times be that difference. Thatā€™s rough. Iā€™m also limited in height. My plants canā€™t get any taller than 5 feet including the pot which is a foot on its own, plus the risers.

RE: Stress. A lot of growers believe stressing their plants is beneficial. The droughting folks are all about it. However if you have a healthy plant with a healthy myco connection, topping your plants doesnā€™t stress them. Neither does transplanting them and then topping them. Earlier in this journal I show that with a healthy myco connection you can transplant your plant, then top it, and it will bounce right back to growing. When I top them again and tie them down they go right back to growing. HST is only high stress when you have unhealthy plants.

When it comes to quality, this is dictated by nutrition and to a lesser extent environment. This is why organic grown tastes, smells, and feels better even grown in the same environment as synthetic. Itā€™s also why outdoors has a different taste and growth. Topping and training have no impact on how a plant eats, only where it sends those nutrients.

TLDR: Topping and training only impact yield, not quality. Quality is dictated by nutrition and to a lesser extent environment. This is why a plant that only yields 1 oz can be better in terms of quality than a plant that yields a pound.
 
+60 the Runtz Punch will be finishing soon. The majority of the hairs are red and are starting to crinkle back in. Sheā€™s still drinking water so maybe another 5-7 days.

The Blue Thais appear to have at least a week, weā€™ll see, things change fast.

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I had to talk shit about the branches and now this plant has had its finish pushed back a week

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The colas became too heavy for the main stem and split it down the middle about an inch, inch and a half. It was the thickest stem out of the bunch, so I can only imagine how heavy the colas are. I wrapped the stem back up with garden tape then tied twine around that to hold it together. I had to reposition the colas. This plant will take an extra week to finish due to the recovery
 
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