Keffkas Coast Of Maine Line, TLO/LOS Style, Bagseed, Indoor Grow

[Keffka]

Any fungii that has a symbiotic relationship with a plant is classified as a mycorrhizal fungii. Mycorrhizae is latin for "Root Fungus".

There are 2 main classes of myco fungii. Endo and ecto mycorhizae. Vegetables, of which cannabis is classified, mainly use endo, and trees mainly use ecto.

The fungii puts out those white hairlike structures to grow through the soil similar I suppose to a branch of a tree, and an individual white hairlike strand is called a hyphae. A collection of hyphae is called a mycellium. A mushroom is a flower growing from the mycellium.

The largest, and possibly oldest know living organism is a mycellium know as The Honey Fungus. Its about 2400 acres in size and 2000-8600 years old and powers an entire forest if I recall correctly.

Google "Suzanne Simard" and you will see some incredible studies on what a mycellium can actually do. Its a true network.

Find her study on how trees communicate and how she used radioactive isotopes to prove it. You may quite possibly never harm a tree again when you see how the whole grove feels its pain.

Baby trees that are devoid of proper light way down on the forest floor are fed by the giants through the mycellium and different species of plants commonly send nutrients to each other, not just to their own species, through the mycellium.

Its Uber Eats for plants. Log into the network and put in your order. Nature is so incredible.

She grew up literally over the mountain from me playing in the same magical Old Growth Forests on Vancouver Island as I did.

The first time I learned about myco existence was around the same time I still had unchecked anger, and emotions. I can vividly remember being so awestruck and angry at the same time I felt completely defeated. It sent me into a manic state for a while and it took a lot to bring me back. It was as devastating as learning all the lies I had been told as a kid.

I knew exactly what they were talking about. I’ve dug in the dirt and hit those spots where you don’t see anything but there seems to be some sort of invisible wires running through it. It wasn’t roots, but it was something. If I could recognize that as a child, how were entire adults just ignoring it?

Once I learned that it’s a gigantic neural network essentially I immediately stopped all sorts of actions I had taken before. I don’t even like digging into the ground any more unless I really have to.

I stopped viewing anything that wasnt a human as less than. I stopped viewing nature as a nuisance to be demonized and dominated. I stopped viewing fungus as bad poison. OF COURSE random mushrooms run the risk of killing you, it’s a representative of a massive living, feeling, thinking network. If you randomly started trying to pick off humans they would kill you too. Hell I became conscious of every single thing I let touch the ground in that moment.

Learning how the fungus can be connected to millions of different plants at once and will literally take nutrients and water from one of those strong plants to help out a completely different type of plant a mile away I knew we had made a huge mistake.

These are just the things we’ve figured out too.. There’s still so much more. We’re only able to replicate MAYBE (I don’t remember hard numbers) 10-20 strains of myco out of 100s we’ve seen so far. There’s some forms of myco that won’t even let us get close to it. The minute it senses an unnatural disturbance it takes off and you never see it again.

All of this blew my mind so far back I no longer was concerned with whether or not we destroy ourselves before we progress off this planet. We currently do not deserve to leave this planet. We don’t deserve to literally murder the life that came before us then just rocket off into space.

These are living, thinking, feeling organisms that have been evolving for millions of years before we built fire let alone stepped out of Africa. They are the sole reason why our planet is the way it is, and are the sole reason why we became what we are. If it weren’t for the fungus, we’d all still be putting around in a deoxygenated planet of creepy colored water and gas.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if we found out fungus had a hand in the great oxygenation events that lead to what we know as our planet today. We were nothing more than a barren rock until plants left the ocean and the fungus are directly responsible for the success of leaving the ocean and spreading across the land.

I say that long winded hippiness to say this.. We need to be more conscious about what we are doing. We can be better and we can work with nature better than we do. Trying to at least understand where nature is coming from will put you leagues ahead as a grower. We humans think we can make everything better. We can’t. We can make things bigger, that’s it, and rarely is it sustainable to make things bigger, as we’ve seen over and over. We’ve let fear and convenience make life altering decisions for us, when neither feeling nor thought has any business in any decision making process.

Sorry for the long winded soapboxing lol.. Learning that our planet is actually one gigantic organism with its own neural networks and body parts really changed something inside of me just as much as PTSD, and just as much as those first Acid/shroom/and DMT trips did.

 

[Gee64]

It is humbling isn't it. Nature is so cool!

 

[Keffka]

It’s a little early to be talking about Curing however, I wanted to do this with my last harvest but didn’t get to it. If things fall into place on this grow then a quarter of what I harvest will be done in this style. For those of you unfamiliar with it, I’d suggest rolling a joint and having a read through the thread, it’s really really cool sounding

Tangwena's Malawi-Style Cob Cure: Fermented Cannabis

 

[Gee64]

oh dang! I forgot that you told me about this. I was going to try it when my outdoor crop came in Next year I guess.

 

[Keffka]

oh dang! I forgot that you told me about this. I was going to try it when my outdoor crop came in Next year I guess.

We covered a lot of stuff in my last journal lol.. It takes me a while to find what I’m looking for when I go to reference it

 

[Gee64]

Sorry guys I have been travelling around BC visiting family for the last week and didn't fully explain my "Using used soil to start my seedlings" post. I actually forgot to mention a step. An important one I think but only have results, not proof.

When Keff was mentioning that seeds contain microbes to start their own rhizosphere the part I forgot to include is what actually prompted me to post as I believe its key when sprouting seeds, and especially when sprouting seeds when you have no used soil from previous grows of the same strain, but I actually do it every time regardless as it allows the specific pheno thats in the seed a better chance to innoculate its pot of soil.

This however is only my belief but I really can't complain about its success so I'm going with " I see a difference so I do it" and I haven't found any solid science on it. I got it from one of my old school organic sites such as Mother Earth News or a homesteading site possibly. It works like this:

After filling your seed starter pot with used soil take a small amount of spagnum peat, run it through a blender to give it a "more dirt like" texture than its mossy texture, soak it in whatever water you use (RO for me as rain is basically RO), and then lay a layer about 1/4 of an inch deep and quite wet, not fully wrung out, across the pot. Germination dampness.

Place your seed on it and cover it with about another 1/4 inch or slightly less and spray it to become quite wet and fully damp at the seed. Then let it sprout.

My belief is this... The used soil is already filled with a broad spectrum of fungii and microbes but every seed is a little bit unique in its own way and needs subtle differences in its rhizosphere, and thats why nature innoculates the seed, so it can innoculate the rhizosphere.

Spagnum moss is sterile so there is no interference until the tap root makes it below the spagnum line and by then the seeds innoculants are already spreading.

Again...Mothers Milk.

 

[Azimuth]

Any fungii that has a symbiotic relationship with a plant is classified as a mycorrhizal fungii. Mycorrhizae is latin for "Root Fungus".

There are 2 main classes of myco fungii. Endo and ecto mycorhizae. Vegetables, of which cannabis is classified, mainly use endo, and trees mainly use ecto.

The fungii puts out those white hairlike structures to grow through the soil similar I suppose to a branch of a tree, and an individual white hairlike strand is called a hyphae. A collection of hyphae is called a mycellium. A mushroom is a flower growing from the mycellium.

The largest, and possibly oldest know living organism is a mycellium know as The Honey Fungus. Its about 2400 acres in size and 2000-8600 years old and powers an entire forest if I recall correctly.

Google "Suzanne Simard" and you will see some incredible studies on what a mycellium can actually do. Its a true network.

Find her study on how trees communicate and how she used radioactive isotopes to prove it. You may quite possibly never harm a tree again when you see how the whole grove feels its pain.

Baby trees that are devoid of proper light way down on the forest floor are fed by the giants through the mycellium and different species of plants commonly send nutrients to each other, not just to their own species, through the mycellium.

Its Uber Eats for plants. Log into the network and put in your order. Nature is so incredible.

She grew up literally over the mountain from me playing in the same magical Old Growth Forests on Vancouver Island as I did.

Thanks for that, Gee!

So, with what you said above, do I already have the myco's that I would add with Dynomyco and/or Great White, the stuff that comes along with my leaf mold?

Or is it some special microbe they want you to buy? Kind of like EM-1 that many people use for LAB. Yes, it works, but it also comes from a totally different environment than you'll be using it in and therefore has cultured microbes that likely won't do as well in your environment so you're better off using stuff you can collect locally.

And, if my version is good, what is the best way to use it, or prepare it, or spread it around?

Also, can I simply dry it down, crumble it up and spread it around that way?

 

[Gee64]

Thanks for that, Gee!

So, with what you said above, do I already have the myco's that I would add with Dynomyco and/or Great White, the stuff that comes along with my leaf mold?

Or is it some special microbe they want you to buy? Kind of like EM-1 that many people use for LAB. Yes, it works, but it also comes from a totally different environment than you'll be using it in and therefore has cultured microbes that likely won't do as well in your environment so you're better off using stuff you can collect locally.

And, if my version is good, what is the best way to use it, or prepare it, or spread it around?

Also, can I simply dry it down, crumble it up and spread it around that way?

Im not sure Azi, sorry. The way I have done it, which I found online and seems to work really well, is to chop the plant a smidge below the dirt line to signal that life is over for sure. Then I let the pot sit dormant for about 2 months in a dark dry cool corner of my garage and the fungii will not actually die from what I read, but will spore out and go dormant.

When it comes in contact with the bioslime of a root it propagates.

I have tried watering empty pots of soil to propagate it and it doesn't really work but in my worm farm, which has tons of seeds from veggie scraps, and they sprout constantly, the hyphae appear and form mycellium in 6-8 days.

As for your particular strain, if its working well for you and you know what to expect from it I would protect it, but I would also science a few pots to see if adding new strains of myco improves it. If yours is better put it on Amazon so I can buy some please!

 

[Keffka]

Sorry guys I have been travelling around BC visiting family for the last week and didn't fully explain my "Using used soil to start my seedlings" post. I actually forgot to mention a step. An important one I think but only have results, not proof.

When Keff was mentioning that seeds contain microbes to start their own rhizosphere the part I forgot to include is what actually prompted me to post as I believe its key when sprouting seeds, and especially when sprouting seeds when you have no used soil from previous grows of the same strain, but I actually do it every time regardless as it allows the specific pheno thats in the seed a better chance to innoculate its pot of soil.

This however is only my belief but I really can't complain about its success so I'm going with " I see a difference so I do it" and I haven't found any solid science on it. I got it from one of my old school organic sites such as Mother Earth News or a homesteading site possibly. It works like this:

After filling your seed starter pot with used soil take a small amount of spagnum peat, run it through a blender to give it a "more dirt like" texture than its mossy texture, soak it in whatever water you use (RO for me as rain is basically RO), and then lay a layer about 1/4 of an inch deep and quite wet, not fully wrung out, across the pot. Germination dampness.

Place your seed on it and cover it with about another 1/4 inch or slightly less and spray it to become quite wet and fully damp at the seed. Then let it sprout.

My belief is this... The used soil is already filled with a broad spectrum of fungii and microbes but every seed is a little bit unique in its own way and needs subtle differences in its rhizosphere, and thats why nature innoculates the seed, so it can innoculate the rhizosphere.

Spagnum moss is sterile so there is no interference until the tap root makes it below the spagnum line and by then the seeds innoculants are already spreading.

Again...Mothers Milk.

No apologies necessary, although you are Canadian so I’m fairly certain it’s just in your DNA lol.

I like things that make logical sense and this makes logical sense. It also confirms my belief that if I can get close to “nutrient-less” seedling starter I’ll see stronger results. This is likely the last time I’ll purchase anything other than just SPM for my seedlings. I don’t consider aeration amendments as purchases since they’re requirements lol.

I knew SPM was different than the peat moss people harp about being unsustainable but wasn’t sure how.

After listening to Coots talk about the CSPMA it made more sense and now I’m all for it.

Thanks for that, Gee!

So, with what you said above, do I already have the myco's that I would add with Dynomyco and/or Great White, the stuff that comes along with my leaf mold?

Or is it some special microbe they want you to buy? Kind of like EM-1 that many people use for LAB. Yes, it works, but it also comes from a totally different environment than you'll be using it in and therefore has cultured microbes that likely won't do as well in your environment so you're better off using stuff you can collect locally.

And, if my version is good, what is the best way to use it, or prepare it, or spread it around?

Also, can I simply dry it down, crumble it up and spread it around that way?

Like Gee said, science up your pots. Look at your root balls. If you see mycelium that seems to be intertwined with your roots and has patches that resembled nerve centers (larger fuzzy groupings) then you likely have exactly what you need. It’s hard to say whether it’s the exact myco you’d get from a commercial product without looking at it in a microscope. I have a scope so I’ll check mine after this grow so we can get an image of the commercial colonies.

Technically, if we’re recycling our root balls you should only need to apply a commercial myco once. From there it should be easy to continue to repopulate the same myco over and over. This takes time, observation, and documenting so a lot of people don’t bother, but if it’s a part of your greater ethos of closed system sustainability it’s worth the effort.

As far as application goes.. You could likely get away with chunking it or crumbling it with your hands. I’d avoid any sort of aggressive cutting and chopping but even then, it’s resilient and could likely handle it.

 

[Azimuth]

Im not sure Azi, sorry. The way I have done it, which I found online and seems to work really well, is to chop the plant a smidge below the dirt line to signal that life is over for sure. Then I let the pot sit dormant for about 2 months in a dark dry cool corner of my garage and the fungii will not actually die from what I read, but will spore out and go dormant.

When it comes in contact with the bioslime of a root it propagates.

I have tried watering empty pots of soil to propagate it and it doesn't really work but in my worm farm, which has tons of seeds from veggie scraps, and they sprout constantly, the hyphae appear and form mycellium in 6-8 days.

As for your particular strain, if its working well for you and you know what to expect from it I would protect it, but I would also science a few pots to see if adding new strains of myco improves it. If yours is better put it on Amazon so I can buy some please!

Well, I have no idea of how it works compared to the others. I guess I should crack open the bottle of GW I have sitting in the cabinet and compare. But, honestly, I can't afford to have my plants get much bigger due to my space.

Two months on the old soil off to the side, eh? I'll have to try that and see. But first I think I have to do a better job getting the fungi established at the beginning of the grow and hold off on the the bacteria stuff for a bit.

 

[Azimuth]

As far as application goes.. You could likely get away with chunking it or crumbling it with your hands. I’d avoid any sort of aggressive cutting and chopping but even then, it’s resilient and could likely handle it.

Yeah, I wanted it in smaller chunks at least, but also don't want to needlessly destroy it for simply aesthetic reasons.

I'll have to pay more, attention going forward.

 

[Keffka]

Well, I have no idea of how it works compared to the others. I guess I should crack open the bottle of GW I have sitting in the cabinet and compare. But, honestly, I can't afford to have my plants get much bigger due to my space.

Two months on the old soil off to the side, eh? I'll have to try that and see. But first I think I have to do a better job getting the fungi established at the beginning of the grow and hold off on the the bacteria stuff for a bit.

This is why I chose no nutrients for the first 2 weeks.. Gives the plant a chance to send the signal to the myco. Having them layered into the 1 gallon should also keep the plant believing it needs the myco to gain access to them. Once they are established they can handle some pretty wild swings in the environment.

Yeah, I wanted it in smaller chunks at least, but also don't want to needlessly destroy it for simply aesthetic reasons
I'll have to pay more, attention going forward.

The GW I have is a powder so this tells me the spores can get fairly tiny and still be healthy. I imagine whatever process goes into powdering them is probably more violent than whatever you’d do at home as well.

I think most of us would find more success if we paid a little more attention and were considering the myco more in the beginning. That seems to be where mine went south the first time around.

 

[CaptainLucky]

The first time I learned about myco existence was around the same time I still had unchecked anger, and emotions. I can vividly remember being so awestruck and angry at the same time I felt completely defeated. It sent me into a manic state for a while and it took a lot to bring me back. It was as devastating as learning all the lies I had been told as a kid.

I knew exactly what they were talking about. I’ve dug in the dirt and hit those spots where you don’t see anything but there seems to be some sort of invisible wires running through it. It wasn’t roots, but it was something. If I could recognize that as a child, how were entire adults just ignoring it?

Once I learned that it’s a gigantic neural network essentially I immediately stopped all sorts of actions I had taken before. I don’t even like digging into the ground any more unless I really have to.

I stopped viewing anything that wasnt a human as less than. I stopped viewing nature as a nuisance to be demonized and dominated. I stopped viewing fungus as bad poison. OF COURSE random mushrooms run the risk of killing you, it’s a representative of a massive living, feeling, thinking network. If you randomly started trying to pick off humans they would kill you too. Hell I became conscious of every single thing I let touch the ground in that moment.

Learning how the fungus can be connected to millions of different plants at once and will literally take nutrients and water from one of those strong plants to help out a completely different type of plant a mile away I knew we had made a huge mistake.

These are just the things we’ve figured out too.. There’s still so much more. We’re only able to replicate MAYBE (I don’t remember hard numbers) 10-20 strains of myco out of 100s we’ve seen so far. There’s some forms of myco that won’t even let us get close to it. The minute it senses an unnatural disturbance it takes off and you never see it again.

All of this blew my mind so far back I no longer was concerned with whether or not we destroy ourselves before we progress off this planet. We currently do not deserve to leave this planet. We don’t deserve to literally murder the life that came before us then just rocket off into space.

These are living, thinking, feeling organisms that have been evolving for millions of years before we built fire let alone stepped out of Africa. They are the sole reason why our planet is the way it is, and are the sole reason why we became what we are. If it weren’t for the fungus, we’d all still be putting around in a deoxygenated planet of creepy colored water and gas.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if we found out fungus had a hand in the great oxygenation events that lead to what we know as our planet today. We were nothing more than a barren rock until plants left the ocean and the fungus are directly responsible for the success of leaving the ocean and spreading across the land.

I say that long winded hippiness to say this.. We need to be more conscious about what we are doing. We can be better and we can work with nature better than we do. Trying to at least understand where nature is coming from will put you leagues ahead as a grower. We humans think we can make everything better. We can’t. We can make things bigger, that’s it, and rarely is it sustainable to make things bigger, as we’ve seen over and over. We’ve let fear and convenience make life altering decisions for us, when neither feeling nor thought has any business in any decision making process.

Sorry for the long winded soapboxing lol.. Learning that our planet is actually one gigantic organism with its own neural networks and body parts really changed something inside of me just as much as PTSD, and just as much as those first Acid/shroom/and DMT trips did.

I’m looking forward to my first encounter with the God molecule. I’m hoping it’s everything I heard it is. CL

 

[Keffka]

I’m looking forward to my first encounter with the God molecule. I’m hoping it’s everything I heard it is. CL

Oh it is.. If you’re extracting yourself no need to worry about setting up some perfect vaporizer situation.. I threw some steel wool in a bowl sprinkled it on it then used a regular lighter. I was able to make it to the “waiting room” then a second hit took me to outer space.

The come down is much friendlier. You don’t have that same long after glow and you don’t feel that same weariness you get from shrooms and acid.

 

[7Dust2]

Speaking of learning.. I love a brand new book!

Kool u got a book. Tell me what this is.

 

[Keffka]

Kool u got a book. Tell me what this is.

Yikes it looks like something sucked the chlorophyll right out of the plant. I’ll see if I can find some information on it. What kind of light do you have? This reminds me of bleaching.

 

[7Dust2]

Yikes it looks like something sucked the chlorophyll right out of the plant. I’ll see if I can find some information on it. What kind of light do you have? This reminds me of bleaching.

It did. Not a fungus. Gen screwed up I guess. Idk sure no color in the leave but leaf is growing.

 

[CaptainLucky]

Oh it is.. If you’re extracting yourself no need to worry about setting up some perfect vaporizer situation.. I threw some steel wool in a bowl sprinkled it on it then used a regular lighter. I was able to make it to the “waiting room” then a second hit took me to outer space.

The come down is much friendlier. You don’t have that same long after glow and you don’t feel that same weariness you get from shrooms and acid.

I was worrying about overheating it and burning it up but you said it was cool with just a lighter? CL

 

[Azimuth]

Yeah, I wanted it in smaller chunks at least, but also don't want to needlessly destroy it for simply aesthetic reasons.

I'll have to pay more, attention going forward.

I've got a root ball fresh off the line and rather than dump it in my recycled soil container I'm going to just let it sit and put a few of those little clumps in on top.

If that works, then that might be a way to get the fungi working for a couple of months before adding any nutes. Might help it get established and I can just plant right in the old root ball. It may need living roots to work though.

Maybe. See how it looks when I'm ready to plant up.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

Spores are more efficient, but colonized root fragments are used to spread mycorrhizae as well.
Found this on another site (which is selling a product, so a grain of salt is needed)

Colonized root fragments and spores are the next two types of mycorrhizal structures capable of forming symbiotic relationships with plants. Colonized root fragments and spores both play an important role in the inoculation of plants by mycorrhizae. Plants, and the mycorrhizae which they form symbiotic relationships with, dictate the balance between the production of colonized roots and actual spores. Different plant types, different mycorrhizal species, and different environmental conditions influence the breakdown between these two important types of propagules in commercial production. Root fragments represent an important part of the mycorrhizal propagules present in inoculant products because of the way the inoculum (or “active ingredient”) is produced at a commercial scale, i.e., on the roots of a host plant. These tiny root pieces contain various fungal structures including hyphae, spores, and vesicles that can be an effective means of fungal propagation and help re-establish the symbiosis with plant roots. Often, one root fragment propagule can contain many spores within it, so even though it is counted and labeled as one propagule, it can contain many spores.