Kali Mist CFL Scrog Grow Journal - 05-19-13

Heres my 2 cents. Yellowing leaves from the bottom 3+weeks into flower is normal. If its just the bottom its fine. The slight brown tips are very classic nute burn. If it stays just as it is, it wont do any harm. If it starts up the leaf more, she has issues.
She needs K for sure, but if you go 20-20-20 she hasta fight through all the N to get it. If you hella dillute its better than nothing tho.
If the brown hairs are on your taller buds, I just had the same issue with CFL's. My cola was 1-2 inches from lights and took a baby burn. How close is the damage to the lights?
BTW, good weed sir. :)
 
Spimp is right on. The lower leaves yellow and die when they don't receive enough light. Completely normal, just remove them.

I think I read that you're using Miracle Grow Cactus 2-7-7. That stuff is a time released formula. If the label says "feeds for up to x weeks" then that is what would cause the burn. It may also be the cause for the chaotic Ph readings as nutrients are periodically released into the soil. If this sounds right to you, then flush that stuff out ASAP. Try to get a good bloom booster because too much nitrogen at this point will lock out other things that your plants want. If you can't, the "hella dilute" option pointed out by pimp is better than nothing.
 
Happy Frieday Crimson:)
 
fish cake said:
readings below 5.8 will cause a nutrient lock out and I do think you are right about the phosporous being low.
:)I'm a bit gun shy about offering solutions to your problems Crimson tho.
to your Question you asked me..No I don't do clones but I should have:)
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No worries fish cakes, Thanks for the info :)

I was curious, if there's a phosphorus deficiency, wouldn't it show up in the leaves above the screen as well or does it just take time?


Spimp said:
Heres my 2 cents. Yellowing leaves from the bottom 3+weeks into flower is normal. If its just the bottom its fine. The slight brown tips are very classic nute burn. If it stays just as it is, it wont do any harm. If it starts up the leaf more, she has issues.
She needs K for sure, but if you go 20-20-20 she hasta fight through all the N to get it. If you hella dillute its better than nothing tho.
If the brown hairs are on your taller buds, I just had the same issue with CFL's. My cola was 1-2 inches from lights and took a baby burn. How close is the damage to the lights?
BTW, good weed sir. :)
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Thanks Spimp, the yellowing and deficient looking leaves are all below the screen, its not a lot maybe like 10-15 leaves total since I noticed the problem. Is it possible heat stress can cause a similar looking effect to leaf tips as nute burn? Nute burn is only on the tips of fan leaves and hasn't progressed :). Browning pistols is specific to only 1 plant and is found at all levels of the colas. CFL's are at a minimum 2-3" distance from all parts of the plant, Cabinet temperature 78F.
 
Gadfly said:
Spimp is right on. The lower leaves yellow and die when they don't receive enough light. Completely normal, just remove them.

I think I read that you're using Miracle Grow Cactus 2-7-7. That stuff is a time released formula. If the label says "feeds for up to x weeks" then that is what would cause the burn. It may also be the cause for the chaotic Ph readings as nutrients are periodically released into the soil. If this sounds right to you, then flush that stuff out ASAP. Try to get a good bloom booster because too much nitrogen at this point will lock out other things that your plants want. If you can't, the "hella dilute" option pointed out by pimp is better than nothing.
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Hi Gadfly, Thanks for the advice. I think I flushed a lot of the excess nutes away, this may have happened as a result of me working my way up to full strength and following the crappy MG label directions. I was fertilizing at most watering periods and it probably just built up and started causing problems. Also I never flushed out the previous 2 MG fertilizers so maybe that could have contributed as well. I don't believe the 2-7-7 cactus fertilizer is time released but I could be wrong. I would love to switch nutes but this is all I have to work with at the moment.

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those nutes are just as good as any others companies synthetics. all derived from the same stuff.

when you runout i suggest using a mix of organic meals, or an all in one fertilizer like sea kelp or fish emulsion :thumb:

i see you vegged this girl for a while. looking great man. i dont see any real signs of nute stress, but if you feel it, you know it..youre the one looking at the grow on a daily basis.

i will say that its odd that the bottem leaves arent turning a normal pale yellow, theyre turning spotty yellow. could be nute issues due to over fertilization, but you probably fixed it already with the flushing.
 
I only took it seriously because of the number of times I came across different people stating it. When your new like me, it's hard to substantiate anything except by majority opinion.
 
DharmaBud said:
Crimson, I have read more than once to stay away from miracle grow with marijuana plants. I don't know, or can't remember why.
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Hi jeff, Thank you for the word of caution. I've read a lot of negative things about MG as well. This is all I have for the time being though (Budget) I'm more focused on putting my free time and resources towards Lighting, heating, and odor control. Security is a bigger priority for me.

I'm still taking precautions though with the nutes and will try a new feeding schedule with the cactus nutes. maybe 1 feeding at 25-50% strength every 4-7 watering cycles, Flush once every 1-2 weeks. Final flush 7-10 days prior to harvest. I'm kinda thinking theres probably plenty of nutes in the soil to get her through a moderate feeding schedule for the next 45 days. So long as I monitor things closely and keep the PH in check :)
 
b.real said:
those nutes are just as good as any others companies synthetics. all derived from the same stuff.

when you runout i suggest using a mix of organic meals, or an all in one fertilizer like sea kelp or fish emulsion :thumb:

i see you vegged this girl for a while. looking great man. i dont see any real signs of nute stress, but if you feel it, you know it..youre the one looking at the grow on a daily basis.

i will say that its odd that the bottem leaves arent turning a normal pale yellow, theyre turning spotty yellow. could be nute issues due to over fertilization, but you probably fixed it already with the flushing.
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Thanks B.real. Yeah the veg felt like a long time to me but the flowering is even worse lmao. At least its exciting to watch her fill out, still not sure which I enjoyed more the training during veg/early flower or the flowering period.

I'll post up some pictures of the 2 girls I'm training to replace the 2 in flower. I believe their veg period is around 3 weeks or so. 1 clone was taken from a branch that snapped about 2 weeks into 12/12. Its kinda mutated being that it was 3 tops and wasn't fimmed lol.

I wanted to test an experiment about high defoliation early in veg and throughout the plants life. The theory is plucking the leaves create tighter nodes and faster secondary growth. so 1 clone had its leafs plucked throughout veg for the last 3 weeks. So far this has slowed its growth tremendously and I'm probably gonna reclone it and start a new with a high topping method. So far I believe kali mist reacts very well to topping by comparing both plants 1 of which was topped significantly more than the other
 
DharmaBud said:
I only took it seriously because of the number of times I came across different people stating it. When your new like me, it's hard to substantiate anything except by majority opinion.
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I agree jeff, It is rather difficult, I tend to use my best judgement, common sense, and play it out by ear as I go. The best way to learn is to dive in and start making mistakes, its the fastest way to learn :)
 
removing fan leaves is silly. it sets the plant back for sure. leaves are the powerhouse of creating glucose/startch via photosystems 1, 2 and the calvin cycle. on top of that, if the plant is hungry it can use the nutrients in the leaves as backup food! never remove fan leaves! it will also create buds that are very leafy in order to compensate for the missing fan leaves, especially when defoliation occurs in bloom!

pruning like lollipopping and topping on the other hand are different. removing flower sights promotes growth and energy to go to other flower sights.

here is what happens when you top:

"Plant physiologists have identified four different stages the plant goes through after the apex is removed (Stages I-IV). The four stages are referred to as
1.lateral bud formation,
2."imposition of inhibition" (apical dominance),
3.initiation of lateral bud outgrowth following decapitation, and
4.elongation and development of the lateral bud into a branch.

These stages can also be defined by the hormones that are regulating the process which are as follows: Stage I, cytokinin promoted, causing the lateral bud to form since cytokinin plays a role in cell division; Stage II, auxin is promoted, resulting in apical dominance ("imposition of inhibition"); Stage III, cytokinin released resulting in outward growth of the lateral bud; and Stage IV, auxin is decreased and gibberellic acid is promoted which results in cell division, enabling the bud or branch to continue outward growth.[1]

More simply stated, lateral bud formation is inhibited by the shoot apical meristem (SAM). The lateral bud primordium (from which the lateral bud develops) is located below SAM. The shoot tip rising from the SAM inhibits the growth of the lateral bud by repressing auxin. When the shoot is cut off, the lateral bud begins to lengthen which is mediated by a release of cytokinin. Once the apical dominance has been lifted from the plant, elongation and lateral growth is promoted and the lateral buds grow into new branches. When lateral bud formation prevents the plant from growing upward, it is undergoing lateral dominance. Often, lateral dominance can be triggered by decapitating the SAM or artificially decreasing the concentration of auxin in plant tissues."

Apical dominance[edit]

Apical dominance is phenomenon where one meristem prevents or inhibits the growth of other meristems. As a result the plant will have one clearly defined main trunk. For example, in trees, the tip of the main trunk bears the dominant meristem. Therefore, the tip of the trunk grows rapidly and is not shadowed by branches. If the dominant meristem is cut off, one or more branch tips will assume dominance. The branch will start growing faster and the new growth will be vertical. Over the years, the branch may begin to look more and more like an extension of the main trunk. Often several branches will exhibit this behaviour after the removal of apical meristem, leading to a bushy growth.

The mechanism of apical dominance is based on the plant hormone auxin. It is produced in the apical meristem and transported towards the roots in the cambium. If apical dominance is complete, it prevents any branches from forming as long as apical meristem is active. If the dominance is incomplete, side branches will develop.

Recent investigations into apical dominance and the control of branching have revealed a new plant hormone family termed strigolactones. These compounds were previously known to be involved in seed germination and communication with mycorrhizal fungi and are now shown to be involved in inhibition of branching.[13]"

basically plants have most of their auxins/hormones in their main shoot, to get taller becuase they need to compete for light with other plants around them. i always used to think that if you cut the top shoot, you would lose all those good hormones, but according to this info, the auxins get transfered to the terminal/side shoots! you have to top correctly though! if you fim, the auxins will get caught up at the top of the plant!
 
I'm currently contemplating growing out 1 Kali Mist and another strain for my next grow, I think its time to pop another seed :) Its a damn shame I threw away my sensi star 2 weeks into veg for a second kali plant lol.

The seeds I have

FEMINIZED UFO #1 T H Seeds Darkstar
FEMINIZED UFO #11FREEFreebie/BOGOFFEMINIZED UFO #2 Female Seeds Bubblegummer
FEMINIZED UFO #21FREEFreebie/BOGOFFEMINIZED UFO #3 Female Seeds Lemon Kush
FEMINIZED UFO #31FREEFreebie/BOGOFDelicious Seeds Critical Sensi Star
May Promotion1FREEFreebie/BOGOFWorld of Seeds AUTOFLOWERING Northern Lights x Big Bud
May Promotion1FREEFreebie/BOGOFWorld of Seeds Legend Collection Afghan Kush Special
May Promotion1FREEFreebie/BOGOFSerious Seeds Kali Bubba
 
Wow a lot of great info! That has got to be the most complicated explanation I have ever seen for topping and Apical dominance lol.
Its very scientific and its by far my favorite explanation so far. Thank you for sharing B.real.

Ya I agree, my hypothesis before defoliation in veg was it would stall and slow things down, only way to know for sure, is to test for yourself :) I'm still not saying it doesn't work as I'm sure plant genetics play a role but I wont be doing it, was more or less something to do with my spare clones I wont be growing out lol.
 
Your right, and I blogged it too! I wish I knew that blog existed before. I'm now in the process of going back in my thread finding the posts like B.Real's to put in the blog.
 
i notice from the labels that Miracle Gro does not include any calcium or magnesium in their formulas that you have, cannabis requires both of these micro nutrients. when i started out i started with Miracle Gro potting soil thinking the nutrients would help the plants more that without any, i was wrong and had problems. If i had to recommend a fertilizer nutrient to someone i would recommend a more complete formula that has been proven to grow cannabis well without deficiencies. it is better to get used to mixing a small amount of nutrients with water and pH adjusting every time you water your plants then trying to rely on any company's formula that is not designed for growing cannabis. I would supplement your Miracle Gro fertilizer with a liquid calcium and magnesium formula to make up for what is lacking in the Miracle Gro.
 
Happy Sativaday Crimson:)
 
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