Hi Jon.
I was wondering which Canna nute line you are using?
I was wondering which Canna nute line you are using?
Jon's New Pared Down Setup Soil Grow: 3 Photo & 1 Auto With New Dedicated Auto Rig
- Thread starter Jon
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #122
Hey VG. The soil one. Cannazym, Rhizotonic, PK 13/14, Boost, and Terra Vega/Flores.
Diatomacious
Well-Known Member
Flushing nutes is more about an overfeeding condition... overfeed a plant and it will definitely taste bad. Long as you dial in your nutes to the T there is no need to flush (maybe plain water the last couple waterings). That's why I will usually suggest a flush in case there is an overfertilized condition creating a lockup in the plant causing a bad flavor. Each grower is different and must decide for themselves what works best for them. A little rub and sniff throughout the grow will tell you how you're plant is doing and whether it has a lockup or not.
Done now ya'll can slam on me.
Diatomacious
Well-Known Member
I lied (double slam)
Can happen in soil from repeated applications of fertilizer where the salts begin to build to higher concentrations in the soil than they are in the nutrient mix. Anyways... back to the show!
Can happen in soil from repeated applications of fertilizer where the salts begin to build to higher concentrations in the soil than they are in the nutrient mix. Anyways... back to the show!
- Thread starter
- #125
That was my most current understanding - that when you flush, you are not flushing nutes out of your buds, your are flushing salts out of the soil.
- Thread starter
- #126
Anyone up for some philosophical ruminations?
I fricking LOVE veg. In my brief growing career I have come to believe that much of the magic happens in veg. How you do in veg determines the overall health of your plant going into budding. On every level. It determines the size and quality of your root ball. It is where you shape your plant the way you want it. If you can make it to the flip with healthy, robust plants from the job you did in veg, you're 90% of the way home. What I really find fascinating about it is how obvious it is that the plants talk to you. They tell you exactly what they need in veg once you start to learn how to listen to them and hear them. I love that you can visually see every little response the plant has to whatever you do. Or don't do. Take watering, for example. In veg, at this point, I barely even use the moisture meter anymore, at least not until the plants are in the fives. I rarely water to weight anymore even. Cuz now I know when the plant needs water. I wait usually until they TELL me they need water. If you pay attention to your plants it's very easy to see in veg. For me, it's not so much about the control part of it, although I probably get off a little bit on that too. It's more about the idea that these are your babies and you're raising them as if they were your kids. If a kid tells you they're hungry, you give them food. Same with a plant. I love seeing them grow up and getting humming as you head into budding. It's so much damn fun. I often wonder if one of the reasons I'm so into it is BECAUSE I don't have any kids. These plants are my kids. And I want them to be happy, healthy, be very well educated, and have a great life. Hell sometimes, as some of you have seen, I fricking name my plants. I try to get to know their individual personalities.
Don't get me wrong, budding is a ton of fun too, and on a different level much more visually and olfactorily exciting. But if you don't hit on all cylinders in veg, your buds are already compromised going in to budding. There's no "making up" in budding for mistakes you made in veg. At least not that I can see so far.
Anywho - there's a little "why I love veg" bullshit for the day. And somehow I am successfully resisting the urge to post daily pictures of the girls, thank god. It's so easy to over-post for me I gotta keep an eye on it. Like this unnecessary post, lmao.
Have a great day guys.
I fricking LOVE veg. In my brief growing career I have come to believe that much of the magic happens in veg. How you do in veg determines the overall health of your plant going into budding. On every level. It determines the size and quality of your root ball. It is where you shape your plant the way you want it. If you can make it to the flip with healthy, robust plants from the job you did in veg, you're 90% of the way home. What I really find fascinating about it is how obvious it is that the plants talk to you. They tell you exactly what they need in veg once you start to learn how to listen to them and hear them. I love that you can visually see every little response the plant has to whatever you do. Or don't do. Take watering, for example. In veg, at this point, I barely even use the moisture meter anymore, at least not until the plants are in the fives. I rarely water to weight anymore even. Cuz now I know when the plant needs water. I wait usually until they TELL me they need water. If you pay attention to your plants it's very easy to see in veg. For me, it's not so much about the control part of it, although I probably get off a little bit on that too. It's more about the idea that these are your babies and you're raising them as if they were your kids. If a kid tells you they're hungry, you give them food. Same with a plant. I love seeing them grow up and getting humming as you head into budding. It's so much damn fun. I often wonder if one of the reasons I'm so into it is BECAUSE I don't have any kids. These plants are my kids. And I want them to be happy, healthy, be very well educated, and have a great life. Hell sometimes, as some of you have seen, I fricking name my plants. I try to get to know their individual personalities.
Don't get me wrong, budding is a ton of fun too, and on a different level much more visually and olfactorily exciting. But if you don't hit on all cylinders in veg, your buds are already compromised going in to budding. There's no "making up" in budding for mistakes you made in veg. At least not that I can see so far.
Anywho - there's a little "why I love veg" bullshit for the day. And somehow I am successfully resisting the urge to post daily pictures of the girls, thank god. It's so easy to over-post for me I gotta keep an eye on it. Like this unnecessary post, lmao.
Have a great day guys.
Bud Love
Well-Known Member
Hey mate.. Brilliant read as ever.
I’ve been using the bio canna range for a while. Thick dark coffee smelling goop.. it’s nice
The boost is a ridiculous price so I’ll be looking for something else next time.. I believe there’s a buffered 2 part feed for coco that works like the Mantis nutrients . One feeding schedule from start to finish.. the hydro shop I usually look in says its coming soon?? Think I’ll try that next if I can..
look forward to your commentary on the next batch
Peace an buds to ya
BubbaKush909
Well-Known Member
Hi Jon! Fascinating discussion with Emilya again as usual! I'd like to ask a few questions. Emilya cites nature in talking about flushing above. However to my knowledge rainwater hits the ground at pH of 6.8, ie neutral, unless it picks up something major in the atmosphere on the way down. So why don't all plants on earth suffer from deficiencies if a pH of 6.3 is better? I'm not saying you're wrong Emilya, in fact I think I have this moly whatever deficiency, and I've been trying to pH closer to 6.5 so I will adjust down. I'm just wondering what I'm missing.
With perlite I always pH'd to 6.5 and had great results, although thinking back the leaves may have been showing a slight deficiency in late flower. I'm guessing perlite being of neutral pH won't raise the incoming pH as quickly?
Also, at times I'd have as many as 30 2L's going. As you can imagine watering to overflow was a mess, each 2L has a small hole about 2-3 inches from the bottom to cap the reservoir size. So being lazy I stopped watering to overflow and just refilled the res every day. I did this to at least a hundred plants over many strains, and never had a single issue. I don't know if this is a perlite vs soil thing, just wanted to throw it out there. I want to do things right but don't want to waste time and nutes if not required. Rock on!
With perlite I always pH'd to 6.5 and had great results, although thinking back the leaves may have been showing a slight deficiency in late flower. I'm guessing perlite being of neutral pH won't raise the incoming pH as quickly?
Also, at times I'd have as many as 30 2L's going. As you can imagine watering to overflow was a mess, each 2L has a small hole about 2-3 inches from the bottom to cap the reservoir size. So being lazy I stopped watering to overflow and just refilled the res every day. I did this to at least a hundred plants over many strains, and never had a single issue. I don't know if this is a perlite vs soil thing, just wanted to throw it out there. I want to do things right but don't want to waste time and nutes if not required. Rock on!
I have a kid & I have taken more pics of these plants in 3 months than my son's while life.... bad Dad.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I totally agree with you about the importance of veg. While I also love the flowering stage for many new reasons, veg is where it starts. I see the entire grow as being cumulative, and if you have a good veg with few problems, bloom will likely go the same. This last round I experimented with not even considering bloom nutes until after stretch was over, treating the first two weeks after the flip as just more extended veg, and I now have huge plants because of this special treatment. Bloom is almost like putting them on autopilot and letting them glide in for the finish in many ways. I think about the number of times that I have fed these current plants during these long 80 days or so getting to this point, realizing that I will only be feeding my plants 3 times during bloom makes it seem like this grow is almost over, already, just a week or so into bloom. Its like the care I have taken to grow and develop the root system these past couple of months... now all that work ends, and it is time to really use those roots that I developed, to see just how much water I can push into these plants. The ability I now have to feed my plants so much water, started in veg.
I am glad you have learned to recognize the need for water by just looking at your plants. After seeing them go through the wet/dry cycle so many times, it almost becomes obvious when you walk into the room, and smell the room, that this need is there. Nudging a bag to check its weight simply becomes a formality at that point.
- Thread starter
- #132
Hey BK909 - Well, the best answer I can give you is that you'd be better off asking Emilya this question. I was also doing 6.5 as my target until she hipped me the other day. I tend to take her at face value and not question her grasp of what she's telling me. So I don't actually KNOW why she's right, other than the cursory (but still detailed and plenty to get the point) explanation she gave me that you're referring to. That was good enough for me. Don't get me wrong, E is amazing but she's not God, (lol). I occasionally ask people like my Oregon Yoda his opinion on something she's told me. But generally speaking with stuff like this she explains it WAY to my satisfaction, as was the case here. The idea that at 6.5 you aren't effectively using the entire Ph range that makes the heavier elements more available to the plant and that at 6.2-6.3 you ARE using the entire range and thus making ALL the nutes available is an exceedingly easy concept to grasp. So I'm going with it. Until and unless my plants tell me otherwise. So far she's right on point. So all that said, every situation is different, and maybe the way you grow with your available water and all that makes the numbers you're using more viable, I honestly don't know. Not saying anyone is right or wrong. And I appreciate input from all corners, not just from E. There are MANY here who know their stuff, and plenty of what I refer to as specialists, like a scrog specialist or whatever. The funniest part of this whole conversation is that I honestly don't think I'd even have anyone following my journal if E didn't help me out for all to see. Lmao. I'm gonna have to send her half my harvest or something.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Hi Bubba! Great question! The answer to this lies in the very reason that we adjust pH in the first place. I run organically and have absolutely no need to worry about pH. Outside plants growing in the ground also have no reason to worry about pH... unless,
unless they are being given synthetic nutes. The only reason we pH adjust is because of artificial or synthetically made nutrients. This is because unless the manufacturers did something to protect the nutes, several of them would react against each other when put in a bottle together. By the time it got manufactured, shipped and sat on the shelf for a while, that fertilizer could be missing several items as they battled each other in that bottle. So the manufactures learned how to chelate items together inside of a salt protective coating, so that they could not interact until that coating was removed. The way we strip that protection from the nutes and make them mobile within the soil is by being in a certain narrow range of pH. When you adjust to this pH, the salt falls away and the nutes are available to the plant and able to be stored in the soil.
So rainwater does not hurt anything outside because the plants out there have no reason to be concerned about pH... as long of course that the rain is not overly acidic, or god help us if this happens, becomes to alkaline. The plants simply don't care, and they have no synthetic nutes in their orbit to worry about being mobile or not.
So when you water a container of soil that has buffers in it and dry it would pass a slurry test at about 6.8 pH, it will affect the pH of your incoming fluid. At whatever number you come in at, the lime and whatever else in that soil will start to react with the fluid and it will try to raise its pH. Also, as the soil dries, it begins to revert back to its base pH... that 6.8 that it resolves down to in the slurry test. The part of the container still being influenced by the pH adjusted fluid, will be much slower to drift up, but it will eventually drift toward the base pH of the soil. When you water your soil to saturation with a 6.3pH fluid, the overall pH of that column of saturated soil has no choice but to be the pH of the most massive component, the fluid itself. When you water at 6.3 pH, for that moment in time, the pH of your entire container has to be 6.3 pH. As the soil starts drying out at the top and the sides, it loses the influence of that adjusted fluid, and those areas in the container slide more toward the base pH of the soil. If the water sat in there for long enough, it would eventually react with the buffers in the soil, and would raise it up to 6.8 or so... but the plant is using this water all along and some is evaporating... so it is a race as to whether it will adjust or get used first. The bottom line is that during this process, there are many different pH areas in that container at the same time, depending on where you measure.
- Thread starter
- #134
Interesting. The soil stuff is mostly clear.Hey mate.. Brilliant read as ever.
I’ve been using the bio canna range for a while. Thick dark coffee smelling goop.. it’s nice
The boost is a ridiculous price so I’ll be looking for something else next time.. I believe there’s a buffered 2 part feed for coco that works like the Mantis nutrients . One feeding schedule from start to finish.. the hydro shop I usually look in says its coming soon?? Think I’ll try that next if I can..
look forward to your commentary on the next batch
Peace an buds to ya
- Thread starter
- #135
Hey @BubbaKush909 - there you go my man. Ask and ye shall receive. I think she got pissed off cuz I described her initial explanation to me as "cursory."
So there's some of the big guns for you. THIS is why I don't question most things - because I know she has and can relate to me the SCIENCE of why she's right. I'm a science guy - I believe there are no facts that exist except for math. When someone tells me the indisputable science behind an answer, for me, I don't care how I emotionally feel about that answer, or if it's an answer that is contrary to everything I believed and had been doing up to that point - science is science. Tell me the math. And she does. So there you go. 
Bud Love
Well-Known Member
Hi Emilya
Hope your doin good
Now… I’m in coir so my needs are a little different regarding the ph.. However, what I’ve found with the canna bio Flores, is that the ph gets pretty low 4.7 to 5.2 mixed with tap water @ph7.5 in 10ltr batches. I’m always having to ph up at feed time.. the bio vega is ok and comes out without intervention @5.7 .
Any reason for this to be particularly low ?
Anyways.. interesting stuff ey
Hope your doin good
Now… I’m in coir so my needs are a little different regarding the ph.. However, what I’ve found with the canna bio Flores, is that the ph gets pretty low 4.7 to 5.2 mixed with tap water @ph7.5 in 10ltr batches. I’m always having to ph up at feed time.. the bio vega is ok and comes out without intervention @5.7 .
Any reason for this to be particularly low ?
Anyways.. interesting stuff ey
Bud Love
Well-Known Member
Hey @ Jon
The Dutch nutrient line do a mono set too..
I’ve only used the CaO and the MgO.. found them as I was looking for a calmag without any nitrogen in.
II haven’t used any of the others out of the box yet though.
The Dutch nutrient line do a mono set too..
I’ve only used the CaO and the MgO.. found them as I was looking for a calmag without any nitrogen in.
II haven’t used any of the others out of the box yet though.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
sounds pretty normal to me. In my Fox Farm days I would see similar results and would always have to pH up when adding nutes and pH down when doing the water only pass.Hi Emilya
Hope your doin good
Now… I’m in coir so my needs are a little different regarding the ph.. However, what I’ve found with the canna bio Flores, is that the ph gets pretty low 4.7 to 5.2 mixed with tap water @ph7.5 in 10ltr batches. I’m always having to ph up at feed time.. the bio vega is ok and comes out without intervention @5.7 .
Any reason for this to be particularly low ?
Anyways.. interesting stuff ey
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Also, keep in mind what is happening in this hydro type grow. Nutes are acidic, so they drive the pH down. But as the nutes get used up, that downward influence on the pH of the fluid wanes and the neutral pH of the water starts to take over... hence your drift upwards in pH over time. Same thing goes here though... start low, and try to go through the entire 5.5-6.1 range with every watering for maximum nute mobility.Hi Emilya
Hope your doin good
Now… I’m in coir so my needs are a little different regarding the ph.. However, what I’ve found with the canna bio Flores, is that the ph gets pretty low 4.7 to 5.2 mixed with tap water @ph7.5 in 10ltr batches. I’m always having to ph up at feed time.. the bio vega is ok and comes out without intervention @5.7 .
Any reason for this to be particularly low ?
Anyways.. interesting stuff ey
- Thread starter
- #140
I use Humboldt's Secret Cal Mag plus Iron. It's only 2% Nitrogen. And the 6+% Iron seems to help the plants. But yeah I got you. 2% is still 2% higher than zero if that is what you need. Lol.