Jon's New Pared Down Setup Soil Grow: 3 Photo & 1 Auto With New Dedicated Auto Rig

Thanks for your reply E! Jon I apologize if I'm jacking your thread, please let me know. Your explanation of the nutes and pH makes perfect sense to me. What about the interim waterings between nutes, should that also be 6.3? Or are the salts now dissolved and it's ok to water at a higher pH?

One last question, is a pH of 6.1 or so too low? Sometimes it's hard for me to pH to an exact number and I hate to yo-yo between pH up & down trying to get there. Thanks again.
 
BubbaKush909 said:
Thanks for your reply E! Jon I apologize if I'm jacking your thread, please let me know. Your explanation of the nutes and pH makes perfect sense to me. What about the interim waterings between nutes, should that also be 6.3? Or are the salts now dissolved and it's ok to water at a higher pH?

One last question, is a pH of 6.1 or so too low? Sometimes it's hard for me to pH to an exact number and I hate to yo-yo between pH up & down trying to get there. Thanks again.
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Not jacking my thread at all. Everything you're learning I'm learning and most all of us are. This is a relatively open, no rules thread. I find it more interesting that way. My only rule is please treat people with respect. And everyone always does.
 
BubbaKush909 said:
Thanks for your reply E! Jon I apologize if I'm jacking your thread, please let me know. Your explanation of the nutes and pH makes perfect sense to me. What about the interim waterings between nutes, should that also be 6.3? Or are the salts now dissolved and it's ok to water at a higher pH?

One last question, is a pH of 6.1 or so too low? Sometimes it's hard for me to pH to an exact number and I hate to yo-yo between pH up & down trying to get there. Thanks again.
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There is a good reason that we give nutes on one pass and water on the next in soil. One of the greatest features of soil growing is that soil has the ability to hold nutrients. When we give nutes to a soil grow we do it in dosages much greater than a typical hydro operation... why is that?

It is because each feeding in soil is actually two feedings... that which will be used immediately and that which gets stored in the soil. When you come along and water the next time with pH adjusted water (always to 6.3) you reactivate those nutes and make them once again available to the plant. This second shot at the nutes effectively cleans up the soil (except for the leftover edta salt) and you are ready for the next round.
 
BubbaKush909 said:
Thanks for your reply E! Jon I apologize if I'm jacking your thread, please let me know. Your explanation of the nutes and pH makes perfect sense to me. What about the interim waterings between nutes, should that also be 6.3? Or are the salts now dissolved and it's ok to water at a higher pH?

One last question, is a pH of 6.1 or so too low? Sometimes it's hard for me to pH to an exact number and I hate to yo-yo between pH up & down trying to get there. Thanks again.
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6.1 will work, but then your swing through the total range at the upper end may be influenced by coming in too low. I will say that 6.1-6.2 would still be better than coming in at 6.5... most of the important nutes are mobile near the lower edge because that is also the upper edge in the hydro range... things are very mobile in that window of 5.8-6.3
 
Emilya said:
Also, keep in mind what is happening in this hydro type grow. Nutes are acidic, so they drive the pH down. But as the nutes get used up, that downward influence on the pH of the fluid wanes and the neutral pH of the water starts to take over... hence your drift upwards in pH over time. Same thing goes here though... start low, and try to go through the entire 5.5-6.1 range with every watering for maximum nute mobility.
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Thanks for taking the time appreciated.:)
 
Jon said:
Not jacking my thread at all. Everything you're learning I'm learning and most all of us are. This is a relatively open, no rules thread. I find it more interesting that way. My only rule is please treat people with respect. And everyone always does.
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Yeah sorry mate. The question to Emilya was supposed to have a quote attached.. but I’m a daft so n so and I did it wrong.:)
 
Thank you Emilya, Jon and everyone else who is chiming in here, it's been so helpful. I'm mixing a new batch of nutes right now. I'm hoping 3rd time's a charm, I hate looking at sickly plants. It's taking all my willpower to not chop the 2 oldest right now just so I don't have to look at them anymore. Unfortunately the trichs, which look like crap, are totally clear still. Half the sugar leaves are crispy on the oldest plant. Hurts my sense of beauty which these plants usually shower us with.
 
BubbaKush909 said:
Thank you Emilya, Jon and everyone else who is chiming in here, it's been so helpful. I'm mixing a new batch of nutes right now. I'm hoping 3rd time's a charm, I hate looking at sickly plants. It's taking all my willpower to not chop the 2 oldest right now just so I don't have to look at them anymore. Unfortunately the trichs, which look like crap, are totally clear still. Half the sugar leaves are crispy on the oldest plant. Hurts my sense of beauty which these plants usually shower us with.
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One of the things E told me that I'm doing in this grow is using the Fox Farms nute chart exactly as it's written. No adjustments. Their prescribed dosage. I was scared to do it. She convinced me that that fear is based on inaccurate hype. (To simplify the discussion). So I've been doing that and the plants are responding beautifully. No issues whatsoever. My point is that by doing exactly what the chart says, not only am I using the FF system the way it was intended (that's also in that discussion) but to your point - I have ZERO GUESSWORK. The less guesswork, I believe, the better. If I need to know what to use I look at the chart. The only exception is CalMag, and I just do that by feel. If the plants show no issue in that realm, I don't give it to them. If they do, I do. I usually toss it into a watering a week regardless of issues, because I have learned that at least with my powerful light, and I assume any professional/powerful LEDs, they tend to use those elements up more quickly than they do under less powerful light. I haven't had any issues with Cal Mag so far - I use Humboldt's Secret Cal Mag plus Iron.
 
Jon said:
One of the things E told me that I'm doing in this grow is using the Fox Farms nute chart exactly as it's written. No adjustments. Their prescribed dosage. I was scared to do it. She convinced me that that fear is based on inaccurate hype.
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fox farm runs as a pretty complete system.

a lot of bottle nute charts are hot, particularly in dwc or rdwc apps. the fox farm system is it's own thing. a lot of growers run in to the same thing when switching in to fox farm.

some nute line charts are pretty dead on. geo-flora. mega crop. fox farm with their media.
 
Hey Jon! I saw those posts and adjusted my feed schedule too. I can't find a reliable soil chart for GH so I'm following their mixes but using E's feed water water routine. My plants are probably like WTF you've fed us differently every time. I'm also trying to translate normal flower weeks into auto flower weeks from the charts. I'd like to say it's working well but so far as you know it's been kind of a mess. I still have 3 perfect youngsters so I hope I've got my ducks in a row now. I like the trend. The 1st auto showed issues about 9 days into flowering, the 2nd 15, the 3rd 23 and the 4th at 27. The damage to the 3rd and 4th is not nearly as severe so far either. The frustrating thing with the last 2 is that just when I was thinking I was safe the issues started to emerge. The youngest photo is still in veg, the other 2 autos are 5 & 10 days into flower respectively. I'm also getting a feel for these lights, they seem happiest at no closer than 18". Time will tell.
 
BubbaKush909 said:
Hey Jon! I saw those posts and adjusted my feed schedule too. I can't find a reliable soil chart for GH so I'm following their mixes but using E's feed water water routine. My plants are probably like WTF you've fed us differently every time. I'm also trying to translate normal flower weeks into auto flower weeks from the charts. I'd like to say it's working well but so far as you know it's been kind of a mess. I still have 3 perfect youngsters so I hope I've got my ducks in a row now. I like the trend. The 1st auto showed issues about 9 days into flowering, the 2nd 15, the 3rd 23 and the 4th at 27. The damage to the 3rd and 4th is not nearly as severe so far either. The frustrating thing with the last 2 is that just when I was thinking I was safe the issues started to emerge. The youngest photo is still in veg, the other 2 autos are 5 & 10 days into flower respectively. I'm also getting a feel for these lights, they seem happiest at no closer than 18". Time will tell.
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Hey hey! Yeah you'll probably get a better idea starting from scratch with your youngsters. And now that we know the Ph too we're set man! As far as converting the FF charts to auto feed, I look at it as if every week of seven days for a photo is five days to an auto. In other words, an auto's week is five days. I adjust as necessary. But basically it means you don't really get a chance to feed autos twice a week, unless you feed them with every watering. Bad idea. So I settle on using the FF chart for autos as it's written, but understanding that as soon as they get to three or four days between waterings I'll only be able to feed once a week. So far that's worked out decently.
 
BubbaKush909 said:
Hey Jon! I saw those posts and adjusted my feed schedule too. I can't find a reliable soil chart for GH so I'm following their mixes but using E's feed water water routine. My plants are probably like WTF you've fed us differently every time. I'm also trying to translate normal flower weeks into auto flower weeks from the charts. I'd like to say it's working well but so far as you know it's been kind of a mess. I still have 3 perfect youngsters so I hope I've got my ducks in a row now. I like the trend. The 1st auto showed issues about 9 days into flowering, the 2nd 15, the 3rd 23 and the 4th at 27. The damage to the 3rd and 4th is not nearly as severe so far either. The frustrating thing with the last 2 is that just when I was thinking I was safe the issues started to emerge. The youngest photo is still in veg, the other 2 autos are 5 & 10 days into flower respectively. I'm also getting a feel for these lights, they seem happiest at no closer than 18". Time will tell.
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If I might make a suggestion - download a free light meter app, like Korona or one that works with your type of phone. There are many. They may not be 1000% accurate, but most are way close enough. I use Korona and it mirrors my par charts pretty closely, ie, it's pretty accurate. Takes all the guesswork out of where to put your lights. You just decide what par you want the plants to be at, find out what distance from the light that is, and there you go. For example, in this grow the girls right now are at 560. If I had two phones I'd show you. But I measure right at the top of the plant, and that's where they are and where I want them now in very early veg. Soon they'll bump up to around 700. If they don't grow into that level first I'll move the light down a hair next week until my app reads 700. Taking the guesswork out of where to position the light was one of the best things I ever did for myself. I was skeptical. But it was SO worth it. The app is free. Often after you download it, depending on which one, you may have to pay to "unlock" either full spectrum, or red/blue, or HPS, or CMH, or whatever you use. On Korona I had to unlock full spectrum and red/blue (for the blurples). So it cost me $10. WELL worth it. Just a suggestion.
 
Emilya said:
I love that 5 day conversion idea! Also it is wonderful knowing that there is now an app that does a good conversion to PAR. Isn't it amazing how this works? Now I have learned from you!
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Lol! I am reminded of a phrase I learned as a little kid from my grandmother: "even a blind pig gets an acorn once in a while."

:laughtwo:
 
BubbaKush909 said:
However to my knowledge rainwater hits the ground at pH of 6.8, ie neutral, unless it picks up something major in the atmosphere on the way down. So why don't all plants on earth suffer from deficiencies if a pH of 6.3 is better?
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You must remember that the soil outside in your yard, the fields, the woods, is composed of lots of different minerals all reacting together to create the pH of the soil. Rain has nothing in it but pure water and so the pH of pure water will easily be changed by the pH of the soil with all the minerals. Take some distilled or RO water and pH it and see how many drops it takes... now add all your nutrients to it and it takes a lot more drops to change the pH by say 1 point.

You're definitely right about the veg being important... keep the plant healthy for the entire grow and you will get your best harvest.
 
Jon said:
Lol! I am reminded of a phrase I learned as a little kid from my grandmother: "even a blind pig gets an acorn once in a while."

:laughtwo:
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I always heard it was squirrel??? :rofl:
 
Well I sure was surprised earlier today to see that my photoperiod Gold Leaf is starting to show pistils at 32 days under 18/6 lighting. I'm gonna take a wild guess that it's an auto, although all my autos so far have started flowering much earlier, closer to 20 days. It was a promo offer from the seed house and didn't say autos so I assumed they were photoperiod. I guess because my order was autos that's what happened.

Should be interesting. Since I thought it was a photo I've transplanted it twice and topped it. I gotta say it looks great, although I may have cost myself some yield. The adventures continue!

PS I have this app called LUX, it measures lumens but I think for purposes of light intensity it's sufficient. I'm hoping the manufacturer got the spectrum right, it's got lots of ratings and 4.5 stars so I figure it works. Back when I was growing previously LED's were in the experimental stage, they were very expensive and it seemed most of them handled Veg just fine but it was much trickier when it came to flowering. In the intervening years they've come a long way dialing in the spectrum.
 
BubbaKush909 said:
Well I sure was surprised earlier today to see that my photoperiod Gold Leaf is starting to show pistils at 32 days under 18/6 lighting. I'm gonna take a wild guess that it's an auto, although all my autos so far have started flowering much earlier, closer to 20 days. It was a promo offer from the seed house and didn't say autos so I assumed they were photoperiod. I guess because my order was autos that's what happened.

Should be interesting. Since I thought it was a photo I've transplanted it twice and topped it. I gotta say it looks great, although I may have cost myself some yield. The adventures continue!

PS I have this app called LUX, it measures lumens but I think for purposes of light intensity it's sufficient. I'm hoping the manufacturer got the spectrum right, it's got lots of ratings and 4.5 stars so I figure it works. Back when I was growing previously LED's were in the experimental stage, they were very expensive and it seemed most of them handled Veg just fine but it was much trickier when it came to flowering. In the intervening years they've come a long way dialing in the spectrum.
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Be careful, wild guesses can get you in a lot of trouble. Photoperiod plants show pistils as do autos, but just showing a few pistils doesn't mean that you have gone into flowering mode, the plant is simply showing its sex. Continue on assuming it is a photo, until the green growth at the growth tips actually stops and turns into buds. Until this happens, even in an auto, you are still vegging. You have assumed that a mistake has been made. There are heavy odds against this assumption. You have also assumed that somehow the free seed is something better than what you bought, or at least another auto of at least equal value. There are also heavy odds against this assumption. I think you have a regular photoperiod plant, maybe feminized. Congratulations! It's a girl!
 
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