Jon's New Pared Down Setup Soil Grow: 3 Photo & 1 Auto With New Dedicated Auto Rig

[Diatomacious]

What strain of weed is the seed in your photo?

That's some Bruce Banner I got going on. That particular seed was the runt of the bunch, I don't think it actually made it through germination as I only got 8 of 10. You can check it out if you want it's Bruce Banner search for the Incredible Hulk. Come watch me get my ass kicked by a plant.

Looks like you are in good hands here.

 

[Jon]

That's some Bruce Banner I got going on. That particular seed was the runt of the bunch, I don't think it actually made it through germination as I only got 8 of 10. You can check it out if you want it's Bruce Banner search for the Incredible Hulk. Come watch me get my ass kicked by a plant.

Looks like you are in good hands here.

Well isn't that convenient! I have the Hulkberry going. It's basically a Bruce Banner #3 derivative even though Royal Queen Seeds describes it as Strawberry Diesel x OG Kush. They call it "their version" of Bruce Banner #3, and from all the grow journals I've seen on it, it appears to grow much like Bruce Banner. A strain I know well from the smoking end. So awesome, I will follow that and hopefully maybe it'll help with my assessments of the Hulkberry. Thanks.

 

[Jon]

Update, Sunday, July 25
Impending Nutrients Starting Point (beginning of week one of nutrients)
Grow Day 9
Veg Day 9

The girls are all doing well so far. 9 days in and no disasters, lol. There are a few things of note that are apparent in the photograph. First, I LOVE my damn light that I'm not allowed to talk about except in general terms. It truly is amazing. The plants just really dig the spectrum, and what I've learned after seeing how the plants in the scrog grew and vegged and now seeing these is that this light, if you have it properly dialed in, promotes zero stretching and very tight nodes. Yes, obviously much of that is genetics, but much of it is also the light and where you have it positioned. I note that these girls are all (even though it's four different strains) coming up the same way. Very little amount/length of stem before the leaves start forming, and the leaves coming out right on top of each other. This is precisely what I want. The plants in the last grow that vegged under this light grew exactly the same way. It's a beautiful thing. The other amazing thing about it is that it only changes the ambient temperature inside the tent by 2 degrees, MAX! ON only raises it that much, and OFF only lowers it that much. I'm talking during budding, when the booster and reds button is kicked in, and it's drawing 680 REAL watts (it draws 550 in veg). 2 damn degrees, that's it. It's a dream. The blurples/quantum board combo I used on Sadie raised the ambient temperature 10-12 degrees, as point of comparison. If you have to make up for 12 degrees just from your light heat before anything else, you had better have a good AC unit, that's all I can say. The 5000 btu unit wouldn't have done the job, not here in the summer. The choice of the 8000 btu unit with digital readout and remote was well worth the extra $40. Even though I don't really need it for a grow with this light (the 5000 btu unit would have worked fine on this), it really makes dialing in the environment much much easier. I have also discovered that my AC unit has a button on the remote that turns OFF the LED (lit up) button light indicators on the unit. Meaning I DON'T have to come up with a cover strip for where the lights on the unit are that face into the hole into the tent. I can simply turn off the LED display, and voila, perfect darkness. I checked last night to be sure that the AC unit wasn't shooting light into the tent via the hole and those little single lights that indicate the fan speed and such, and sure enough, they were. Hardly any, probably not enough to affect anything. But I'm not taking any chances, so I was going to take care of it and then found this LED turn off function on the remote. A happy accident. Note to self: YOU DON"T KNOW EVERYTHING. WHEN YOU BUY A NEW PIECE OF INFRASTRUCTURE, READ THE GODDAMN INSTRUCTION MANUAL. YOU MIGHT LEARN SOMETHING.

So tomorrow is Monday, start of a week, and Day 10 of the grow. We are beginning nutrient feeding with tomorrow's watering. Here's the skinny on the starting (week one) nutrients for each plant:

Slurricane: She is the test pilot for the Sohum living soil, so she gets nothing but Ph'ed water. No nutrients. There are enough in the soil she's started in to sustain her just fine for the length of time she'll be in the one gallon container and until she gets transplanted into the Sohum. If I find this is not the case, I will augment with a little FF Big Bloom, which is basically just worm and fish crap. If she gets a deficiency before transplant it will likely be in this vein. God, realizing how easy this living soil is going to be relative to not having to mix and measure any nutes is already making me smile.
Ghost Train Haze: She's getting the Fox Farms treatment I already know, the trio, with the addition of the additives of the Open Sesame, Beastie Bloomz, and Cha Ching. After a lengthy conversation with @Emilya and the usual enlightenment that results, I am adding these supplements to the end of using the Fox Farms nutes as the system they are intended to be used as. Also based on that conversation, we are going to try the FF feeding schedule EXACTLY as it's written. No adjustments. No dilution. Flushes when the schedule says to flush. Etc. Follow the feeding schedule to the letter. So, week one of the FF feeding schedule for soil says I need to add SIX teaspoons of Big Bloom to a gallon of water. As I told Emilya, this makes me nervous. I'm afraid that the schedule as written is too hot for the plants. I have always adjusted it down. For example, last time on week one instead of 6 tsp of Big Bloom I used 2. However, Emilya points out that this is basically giving them watered down nutes. Yes, you'll get SOME results. But you won't get what is intended unless you use the SYSTEM as a whole and as prescribed. So there you go. There are no other nutes week one (we're not using the feeding schedule additives that appear in orange, or else we'd also be adding some Boomerang....next grow we will get all the "orange" additives).
Hulkberry: She is getting the Dutch nutrient line in total with all the pieces. I am going to use the same logic as Emilya used regarding using a "system" of nutes, and use this new Dutch line (new to me, lol) EXACTLY as their feeding chart indicates. Thank you Emilya for showing me how my natural cynicism can affect my grow negatively as it affects certain decisions that are better approached from a completely neutral point of view. Lol. So the starting point (week 1) for the Dutch nute line says I'm to mix 2.6 ml/liter of their Veg mix, 4 ml/liter of the Rhizotonic, and 2.5 ml/liter of the Cannazym. That's what we're going to do.
Chunkadelic: Also getting the Dutch nute system, so she will begin with the identical mix as the Hulkberry.

Nice to have a plan, and only two nute mixes. Not so bad. We'll see how it goes.

My watering methodology is such that for now I water with a sprayer. Now that we are watering to the outside of the main stem in the ring to promote side growth of the root ball, for a little bit longer I still use the sprayer. I adjust the output so that it shoots in a stream. This allows me to be very exact with where I want to put the water, and how much I use. I use this method until the plants are big enough and the root ball extensive enough to start watering "normally" without a sprayer. I've learned it's useful, at least for me, to be able to target the water, especially in seedling/early veg.

And that's where we are. Whoo hoo. The picture shows the girls having just gotten their morning watering today.

 

[Diatomacious]

I have also discovered that my AC unit has a button on the remote that turns OFF the LED (lit up) button light indicators on the unit.

From my experience a little light at night is not a big deal and plants will still bud out. If you think about it in the wild plants are constantly lit by moonlight at night and yet they still do well. Just my 2 cent to help make life a little easier though I know you will scoff.

 

[Jon]

Foliar feeding is just another way to supercharge these plants by using another path to force feed more nutrient into them. Using their other products will increase some aspect of the grow, allowing you to produce more and better quality at the end. Yes, all these are parts of the "system" but the entire system is not needed to produce adequate product. They know that most people are not willing to spend this much to produce their pot, but those who are willing to spend a little more, should be rewarded for each dollar they add to the cost of the grow, and Fox Farms is good at providing products that can do this. You don't need all of the products. You can grow perfectly fine pot just using the basic 3 part trio. I found a dramatic increase in quality/quantity when I combined it with the 3 solubles. I was not willing to go any further than that, but you may want to go all in, and by doing so, I am confident that your grows could be even more spectacular than mine were. Or, you can be totally happy with what happens by not doing the foliar and the root treatments, and microbe brews, and boosters of several types... I am confident that at least some of the benefits that all these other products bring in is also available in the base nutrients. But, like I said before... looking at how much they offered to allow me to spend on a grow using all of their products, was a deal killer for me. I knew there had to be a better, and cheaper way to give my plants the same benefits, naturally. But for those who don't want to find a way to send targeted microbes with exactly the right raw materials into an organic grow, here is the way to buy success... simply buy into the system, as much of it as you can afford, and you too can have a prize winning grow, even without a clue as to what you are doing.

That being said, please don't think that a grow done with just the basic trio is going to be crap as compared to a grow where all the stops were pulled out and luxury nutes flowed from golden faucets... this beautiful plant adapts to whatever it finds available to it and will still produce as best as its genetics will allow. The plant grown with more options available to it, might be a little bit bigger, the buds a little bit beefier and stronger smelling, but it might cost twice as much to produce too. It's all about compromises, and which we are willing to accept.

Hi @Emilya - Hey I was wondering if you had time for a quick question or two? (Let's pretend I sometimes ask "quick" questions, lol) We talked at decent length about all this stuff and it's greatly appreciated. My question concerns something we didn't cover, ie, frequency of application. The Fox Farms chart makes it clearer than the Canna chart (everyone uses the name, apparently I can name my Dutch nute line without promoting it) - the FF chart says feed "up to twice weekly." So I'm going to feed the Fox Farms nutes twice a week, in theory, correct? Assuming I want to feed them "heavy?" Seems easy enough. However, starting pretty soon and for most of the rest of veg, they'll likely only get two waterings a week, or at the most three, but in my limited experience using your watering methodology, I have yet to find a strain that needs watered more than twice a week once you're actually watering the plant normally and it is of decent size. So that being the case, if I feed them twice a week like the chart sort of directs, that means I will never (or rarely) have a chance to insert the "water only" watering between feedings. So regarding that, it actually begs a few questions:
1. Is it actually necessary to break up feeding nutrients with feedings of clean water only as I have always done in one form or another? Or is there some science/logic to feeding twice weekly even if that means you feed with virtually every watering? Is feeding twice a week regardless of intermittent clean waterings part of the FF "system" as you understand it? For all I know you may group this concept in with the idea of diluting nutrients cuz they're too "hot," and think it's just more over abundance of caution from people who made a lot of noise on the internet preaching unnecessary caution. Or it may really be necessary for some scientific reason to give them clean water between nute applications. I figure you're the girl to ask. Lol.
2. #1 applied to the Fox Farms nutes. This question is in regard to the Canna nutes, I have looked everywhere and can't find the answer online anywhere, nor any consensus in a forum. How often are you supposed to feed with Canna? I found a personalized nute chart for photos, I found an auto feeding chart, I found an already converted to tsp/tbsp chart, and I found plenty on choosing low, medium, or high strength feeding (I chose the mid-level one cuz I am so vanilla). NOWHERE can I find frequency of feeding. SO...I was gonna go with twice a week, as the FF chart suggests potentially. The same questions arise as in #1 basically, as well as maybe the formulation of these nutrients is such that you can feed with every watering, and that's why there's no frequency of feeding literature? Any idea?(Not sure how, if at all, familiar you are with Canna for Terra, the entire line with all additives....)
3. My feeling is that from now until I am legit watering the plants, ie, when they are basically getting watered every morning daily, it's very easy to feed nutrients twice a week. Cuz for a few weeks you get seven waterings, or six/five, but multiple in any case, per week. More than TWO. That begs a question as well. Do you have a preferred or scientifically best methodology for scheduling those two feedings? Should I go back to back with the nutes and five days of water? Or is it better to go, say, water/nute/water/water/nute/water (a six day a week cycle for the first two weeks in this example) and "space out" the nutrient applications? Or, I suppose, a maverick such as yourself might even say screw it, feed them with every watering for the first two weeks to get them off the ground?

As usual, I hope that all makes reasonable sense. It's not that easy to suspend the ego for a new grower and ask someone like you questions in a public forum like this, cuz I always feel I am at risk of asking a REALLY dumb question and losing the little bit of cred I have. But I will always risk embarrassment for knowledge.

Thank you in advance Emilya.

 

[Jon]

From my experience a little light at night is not a big deal and plants will still bud out. If you think about it in the wild plants are constantly lit by moonlight at night and yet they still do well. Just my 2 cent to help make life a little easier though I know you will scoff.

I'll tell you what, I'll stop short of actually scoffing, and instead just politely say I appreciate the input, but I am taking ZERO chances after the scrog. I have no idea when "a little light at night" that's "not a big deal and plants will still bud out" morphs into "a little TOO MUCH light at night and the plants made seeds." The solution, to me, is simple - ZERO light when there's not supposed to be any light. If I wanted starscape at night in the tent I'll install a planetarium generator and aim it at the ceiling. Lol.

 

[Emilya Green]

Hi @Emilya - Hey I was wondering if you had time for a quick question or two? (Let's pretend I sometimes ask "quick" questions, lol) We talked at decent length about all this stuff and it's greatly appreciated. My question concerns something we didn't cover, ie, frequency of application. The Fox Farms chart makes it clearer than the Canna chart (everyone uses the name, apparently I can name my Dutch nute line without promoting it) - the FF chart says feed "up to twice weekly." So I'm going to feed the Fox Farms nutes twice a week, in theory, correct? Assuming I want to feed them "heavy?" Seems easy enough. However, starting pretty soon and for most of the rest of veg, they'll likely only get two waterings a week, or at the most three, but in my limited experience using your watering methodology, I have yet to find a strain that needs watered more than twice a week once you're actually watering the plant normally and it is of decent size. So that being the case, if I feed them twice a week like the chart sort of directs, that means I will never (or rarely) have a chance to insert the "water only" watering between feedings. So regarding that, it actually begs a few questions:
1. Is it actually necessary to break up feeding nutrients with feedings of clean water only as I have always done in one form or another? Or is there some science/logic to feeding twice weekly even if that means you feed with virtually every watering? Is feeding twice a week regardless of intermittent clean waterings part of the FF "system" as you understand it? For all I know you may group this concept in with the idea of diluting nutrients cuz they're too "hot," and think it's just more over abundance of caution from people who made a lot of noise on the internet preaching unnecessary caution. Or it may really be necessary for some scientific reason to give them clean water between nute applications. I figure you're the girl to ask. Lol.
2. #1 applied to the Fox Farms nutes. This question is in regard to the Canna nutes, I have looked everywhere and can't find the answer online anywhere, nor any consensus in a forum. How often are you supposed to feed with Canna? I found a personalized nute chart for photos, I found an auto feeding chart, I found an already converted to tsp/tbsp chart, and I found plenty on choosing low, medium, or high strength feeding (I chose the mid-level one cuz I am so vanilla). NOWHERE can I find frequency of feeding. SO...I was gonna go with twice a week, as the FF chart suggests potentially. The same questions arise as in #1 basically, as well as maybe the formulation of these nutrients is such that you can feed with every watering, and that's why there's no frequency of feeding literature? Any idea?(Not sure how, if at all, familiar you are with Canna for Terra, the entire line with all additives....)
3. My feeling is that from now until I am legit watering the plants, ie, when they are basically getting watered every morning daily, it's very easy to feed nutrients twice a week. Cuz for a few weeks you get seven waterings, or six/five, but multiple in any case, per week. More than TWO. That begs a question as well. Do you have a preferred or scientifically best methodology for scheduling those two feedings? Should I go back to back with the nutes and five days of water? Or is it better to go, say, water/nute/water/water/nute/water (a six day a week cycle for the first two weeks in this example) and "space out" the nutrient applications? Or, I suppose, a maverick such as yourself might even say screw it, feed them with every watering for the first two weeks to get them off the ground?

As usual, I hope that all makes reasonable sense. It's not that easy to suspend the ego for a new grower and ask someone like you questions in a public forum like this, cuz I always feel I am at risk of asking a REALLY dumb question and losing the little bit of cred I have. But I will always risk embarrassment for knowledge.

Thank you in advance Emilya.

First, no question is a dumb one. I am actually starting to love your "quick" questions. I too asked that particular question when I started this, so I set out to get to the bottom of things.

Some people grow in 1 or 2 gallon containers, some in 5's, 10's... you get the idea. The watering frequency of each of these containers is likely to be very different, and some could easily get watered 7 times a week and some once a week. So, how could they make a blanket statement like this, that you should feed twice a week, when in some cases that is just not possible? Well, once our plants fill out a container, we uppot and eventually we see that our watering schedules usually settles in to a pattern that seems to repeat as the plant gets bigger, in bigger containers.

It turns out that there is an industry standard of 3 days. Three days is the ideal time between waterings of a good sized healthy plant in a container of soil, and soil water retention and flow through rate calculations as soil is built takes this into account and indeed, 3 days often becomes our time between waterings during bloom with a good root system in just about any sized container we choose to use.

In a container with this timing, let's say you feed on day 1 so when it is time to water again you give water only on day 4. Three days later, on day 7 you need to water again, this time with feed. You have fed twice in that week. What that instruction actually means to an experienced gardener, is to feed every other time. Successive uppottings make this timing possible all through the grow, but just to be thorough, we must imagine the plant blooming in a solo cup, that must be watered twice a day, or 14 times in a week. In this case, we find the reason the crafty wordsmiths at FF said this the way they did... that plant would do well just getting 2 out of the 14 waterings that week to include feed... any more would overload the poor tortured thing.

Further study informs us that when we water soil with nutes, the dosage rates recommended are way more than you would give a hydroponic plant... but the plant does not take all of those nutrients in during that first pass. This is the beauty of soil, it's ability to hold ions of nutrients all throughout the soil, so that when you come along with pH adjusted water on the next watering, those leftover nutrients are once again mobile and available to the plant. In soil, each feeding that you give is actually two feedings... and that water only round really is not water only once you realize what is going on, it is picking up the leftovers. If your dosages are correct, that water only pass effectively cleans up the soil of all nutrients, and you are ready to go again... the only thing that should be left over is the EDTA salt that is left behind as the nutes break free of the bonds put on them so they stay inert in the bottle, and you flush that away on a regular basis.

 

[Diatomacious]

I'll tell you what, I'll stop short of actually scoffing, and instead just politely say I appreciate the input, but I am taking ZERO chances after the scrog. I have no idea when "a little light at night" that's "not a big deal and plants will still bud out" morphs into "a little TOO MUCH light at night and the plants made seeds." The solution, to me, is simple - ZERO light when there's not supposed to be any light. If I wanted starscape at night in the tent I'll install a planetarium generator and aim it at the ceiling. Lol.

Light will not make your plant hermie... that is genetics. All too much light will do is cause the plant to revert from bloom to veg. The hermie that created seeds in your scrog would have done so irregardless of the presence of light during bloom.

 

[Jon]

First, no question is a dumb one. I am actually starting to love your "quick" questions. I too asked that particular question when I started this, so I set out to get to the bottom of things.

Some people grow in 1 or 2 gallon containers, some in 5's, 10's... you get the idea. The watering frequency of each of these containers is likely to be very different, and some could easily get watered 7 times a week and some once a week. So, how could they make a blanket statement like this, that you should feed twice a week, when in some cases that is just not possible? Well, once our plants fill out a container, we uppot and eventually we see that our watering schedules usually settles in to a pattern that seems to repeat as the plant gets bigger, in bigger containers.

It turns out that there is an industry standard of 3 days. Three days is the ideal time between waterings of a good sized healthy plant in a container of soil, and soil water retention and flow through rate calculations as soil is built takes this into account and indeed, 3 days often becomes our time between waterings during bloom with a good root system in just about any sized container we choose to use.

In a container with this timing, let's say you feed on day 1 so when it is time to water again you give water only on day 4. Three days later, on day 7 you need to water again, this time with feed. You have fed twice in that week. What that instruction actually means to an experienced gardener, is to feed every other time. Successive uppottings make this timing possible all through the grow, but just to be thorough, we must imagine the plant blooming in a solo cup, that must be watered twice a day, or 14 times in a week. In this case, we find the reason the crafty wordsmiths at FF said this the way they did... that plant would do well just getting 2 out of the 14 waterings that week to include feed... any more would overload the poor tortured thing.

Further study informs us that when we water soil with nutes, the dosage rates recommended are way more than you would give a hydroponic plant... but the plant does not take all of those nutrients in during that first pass. This is the beauty of soil, it's ability to hold ions of nutrients all throughout the soil, so that when you come along with pH adjusted water on the next watering, those leftover nutrients are once again mobile and available to the plant. In soil, each feeding that you give is actually two feedings... and that water only round really is not water only once you realize what is going on, it is picking up the leftovers. If your dosages are correct, that water only pass effectively cleans up the soil of all nutrients, and you are ready to go again... the only thing that should be left over is the EDTA salt that is left behind as the nutes break free of the bonds put on them so they stay inert in the bottle, and you flush that away on a regular basis.

Lmao. It's hilarious (in a real good way) to me how effortlessly you answer these questions. Thanks so much. That really does answer all three of my question groups, and the information is obviously applicable to both the Fox Farms and the Canna nutes. Answered from all angles. Thanks! Another comment on your writing: you're really good at painting a picture to make the seemingly difficult easy to understand. In this response to me you use the phrase "cleaning up the leftovers." Well, I GET that. I happen to be someone who would "get" it with the science or the metaphors/similies/comparisons/etc., but for many people this kind of thing is EXTREMELY helpful. So kudos to you.

Light will not make your plant hermie... that is genetics. All too much light will do is cause the plant to revert from bloom to veg. The hermie that created seeds in your scrog would have done so irregardless of the presence of light during bloom.

Light can create a hermie just as any other kind of stress can. It is NOT just genetics that cause a plant to go hermie. Sorry.

 

[Diatomacious]

Light can create a hermie just as any other kind of stress can. It is NOT just genetics that cause a plant to go hermie. Sorry.

 

[Diatomacious]

Kind of like saying I'll grow a vagina if I worry too much.

 

[Jon]

Kind of like saying I'll grow a vagina if I worry too much.

You worry your way, I'll worry mine.

 

[BubbaKush909]

Hello Jon! Another great journal so far, I'm really learning a lot. I appreciate your thoughtful approach and it's obvious I need to read Emilya's threads. My grow thus far has been a very humbling experience and without your journals I'd really be in trouble.

All my records and logs from my earlier grows are long gone, and apparently so is my memory of those grows. I've had pH problems, cal-mag problems and who knows what else. I think I've finally got my nutes dialed in, I'm using GH floraseries, but time will tell. I replaced my old and apparently defective pH meter. I've broken down and actually started reading all the nute directions again because (a) my memory sucks and (b) I remember why I switched to perlite, because I suck at growing in soil (if perlite wasn't such a pita to get rid of I'd stick with it). I'm really kicking myself because all the evidence of my misdeeds was right in front of me, but my mistaken belief that I knew what I was doing blinded me.

I've got a very crispy Gorilla Glue auto that I almost trashed but I'll see it out. It was my original star and really got crushed by a combo of super high pH and not enough CM. It's now on day 60 and hardly has an intact leaf anywhere. I'm watching the trichs and will take it in a week or two, I'll make ice hash with it.

I've got a Bruce Banner auto the same age that made it 2 weeks further into flower before showing CM issues. I attributed those issues to the early pH errors catching up to her, she didn't take off early like the GG did and I reasoned that she wasn't as badly affected since she was smaller before I corrected the pH. She looks a hell of a lot better than GG1 and looks like she'll finish ok. Don't misunderstand, she's far from what she was on track to be.

I've got another GG auto (GG2) that looked awesome until 3 days ago when it started showing CM issues. I'm like WTF. Alongside it is BB2, who looks best of all my plants so far and is showing no issues. They're both at 48 days from sprouting and 24 days into flower. So I looked at my Botanicare CM Plus, it recommends 3-5 ml/gal in mid-flower. Prior to this I had been going by the GH charts, which recommend 1.9ml/gal. for their CaliMagic. Talk about feeling like a dumbass! I just figured CM is CM is CM and it has bitten me in the ass big time.

Sometimes you get to a place in a grow where it feels like everything you do is gonna be wrong. That's kinda where I am now. I flushed BB1, BB2 & GG2 yesterday. Today, even though they haven't come close to drying out, I hit them with the hopefully corrected nutes. Now I just sit back and watch and hope. I also have BB3 & GG3, along with a photo Gold Leaf all still in veg so worst case I hope I learn quickly enough to grow those 3 well.

Sorry to post at such length but confession is good for the soul and recording all my dumb errors my help one of your readers along the way. If I'd been a newbie I'd have looked at the label first thing and never made the dosage error. I'd also have been much more careful about checking pH early on. I also found out that there can be huge differences in pH down so if anyone out there changes the pH up or down that you're using do not assume what was correct dosage with one brand will be correct with another. I've got aquariums and the pH down for them is way weaker than the stuff I got from the local hydro store.

Loved the band pics and vid. Looks like you guys really enjoy being together. Rock on!

 

[Jon]

Hello Jon! Another great journal so far, I'm really learning a lot. I appreciate your thoughtful approach and it's obvious I need to read Emilya's threads. My grow thus far has been a very humbling experience and without your journals I'd really be in trouble.

All my records and logs from my earlier grows are long gone, and apparently so is my memory of those grows. I've had pH problems, cal-mag problems and who knows what else. I think I've finally got my nutes dialed in, I'm using GH floraseries, but time will tell. I replaced my old and apparently defective pH meter. I've broken down and actually started reading all the nute directions again because (a) my memory sucks and (b) I remember why I switched to perlite, because I suck at growing in soil (if perlite wasn't such a pita to get rid of I'd stick with it). I'm really kicking myself because all the evidence of my misdeeds was right in front of me, but my mistaken belief that I knew what I was doing blinded me.

I've got a very crispy Gorilla Glue auto that I almost trashed but I'll see it out. It was my original star and really got crushed by a combo of super high pH and not enough CM. It's now on day 60 and hardly has an intact leaf anywhere. I'm watching the trichs and will take it in a week or two, I'll make ice hash with it.

I've got a Bruce Banner auto the same age that made it 2 weeks further into flower before showing CM issues. I attributed those issues to the early pH errors catching up to her, she didn't take off early like the GG did and I reasoned that she wasn't as badly affected since she was smaller before I corrected the pH. She looks a hell of a lot better than GG1 and looks like she'll finish ok. Don't misunderstand, she's far from what she was on track to be.

I've got another GG auto (GG2) that looked awesome until 3 days ago when it started showing CM issues. I'm like WTF. Alongside it is BB2, who looks best of all my plants so far and is showing no issues. They're both at 48 days from sprouting and 24 days into flower. So I looked at my Botanicare CM Plus, it recommends 3-5 ml/gal in mid-flower. Prior to this I had been going by the GH charts, which recommend 1.9ml/gal. for their CaliMagic. Talk about feeling like a dumbass! I just figured CM is CM is CM and it has bitten me in the ass big time.

Sometimes you get to a place in a grow where it feels like everything you do is gonna be wrong. That's kinda where I am now. I flushed BB1, BB2 & GG2 yesterday. Today, even though they haven't come close to drying out, I hit them with the hopefully corrected nutes. Now I just sit back and watch and hope. I also have BB3 & GG3, along with a photo Gold Leaf all still in veg so worst case I hope I learn quickly enough to grow those 3 well.

Sorry to post at such length but confession is good for the soul and recording all my dumb errors my help one of your readers along the way. If I'd been a newbie I'd have looked at the label first thing and never made the dosage error. I'd also have been much more careful about checking pH early on. I also found out that there can be huge differences in pH down so if anyone out there changes the pH up or down that you're using do not assume what was correct dosage with one brand will be correct with another. I've got aquariums and the pH down for them is way weaker than the stuff I got from the local hydro store.

Loved the band pics and vid. Looks like you guys really enjoy being together. Rock on!

Hey BK - Thanks for the lengthy and thoughtful post. Dude, you're not alone. On my first grow of autos that just finished, out of nine plants I feel I only grew ONE even CLOSE to properly. NONE of them, with the one exception of the one Cinderella Jack, was worth writing home about. And I also had the same calmag/deficiency issues, especially on the Pineapple Express. One thing I've learned about autos is that if you see they're having an issue, you had better diagnose and correct it quickly, because every day of stalled growth has a big impact on an auto. This Sour Apple is the first auto I've grown that I went her entire grow without a single deficiency. The only mistake I made with this plant was leaving her in the sun a few days longer than she liked, so the heat curled her fan leaves a little and crisped up the tips. But they stayed viable and the plant has had no other issues. When you raise one start to finish with no mistakes, they really do produce, or at least it appears this one is going to. I suspect this one cola and two side bud auto is going to outyield every one I've grown to this point. And it's unquestionably the largest single bud I've ever grown. Anyway, we all go through it, and I do too and I still am too. I'm a long long way from anywhere that would be considered experienced. I just got pretty lucky on a few plants in a row now, that's all. I will say, I DO read nute directions and take steps to eliminate confusion. There's a pic at the end to show you one way I try to do that. I'm a stoner man, and I respect my lack of short term memory. So I'd rather come off like an anal retentive OCD maniac than make mistakes due to not reading or getting confused. Lol!!! I have a lot going on and if I don't do this stuff I'll get lost. It's too easy when you're smoking close to an eighth a day, lmao. There's also a picture showing how I keep my nutes separated and keep from being confused regarding containers. That on is self explanatory. In the photo with the charts, left to right, those charts are: PH Up/Down Chart with specific nutrient uptake sweetspots, Fox Farms Feeding Chart, Canna Feeding Chart for Photos and for Autos, Common Nutrient Deficiency ID chart, and Mono-Silicic Acid Directions/Frequency Chart.

The photos show two of my suggestions that may help you to stay on point, for what it's worth. Makes my life a lot easier to do these few easy things.

Anyway, thanks. Good luck. I'm glad you find some kind of value in the journal. If I can help let me know, but usually I'm gonna direct you elsewhere unless I KNOW that I know. Lol.

Stick with it!!!!

 

[DeeBoy]

Hello Jon! Another great journal so far, I'm really learning a lot. I appreciate your thoughtful approach and it's obvious I need to read Emilya's threads. My grow thus far has been a very humbling experience and without your journals I'd really be in trouble.

All my records and logs from my earlier grows are long gone, and apparently so is my memory of those grows. I've had pH problems, cal-mag problems and who knows what else. I think I've finally got my nutes dialed in, I'm using GH floraseries, but time will tell. I replaced my old and apparently defective pH meter. I've broken down and actually started reading all the nute directions again because (a) my memory sucks and (b) I remember why I switched to perlite, because I suck at growing in soil (if perlite wasn't such a pita to get rid of I'd stick with it). I'm really kicking myself because all the evidence of my misdeeds was right in front of me, but my mistaken belief that I knew what I was doing blinded me.

I've got a very crispy Gorilla Glue auto that I almost trashed but I'll see it out. It was my original star and really got crushed by a combo of super high pH and not enough CM. It's now on day 60 and hardly has an intact leaf anywhere. I'm watching the trichs and will take it in a week or two, I'll make ice hash with it.

I've got a Bruce Banner auto the same age that made it 2 weeks further into flower before showing CM issues. I attributed those issues to the early pH errors catching up to her, she didn't take off early like the GG did and I reasoned that she wasn't as badly affected since she was smaller before I corrected the pH. She looks a hell of a lot better than GG1 and looks like she'll finish ok. Don't misunderstand, she's far from what she was on track to be.

I've got another GG auto (GG2) that looked awesome until 3 days ago when it started showing CM issues. I'm like WTF. Alongside it is BB2, who looks best of all my plants so far and is showing no issues. They're both at 48 days from sprouting and 24 days into flower. So I looked at my Botanicare CM Plus, it recommends 3-5 ml/gal in mid-flower. Prior to this I had been going by the GH charts, which recommend 1.9ml/gal. for their CaliMagic. Talk about feeling like a dumbass! I just figured CM is CM is CM and it has bitten me in the ass big time.

Sometimes you get to a place in a grow where it feels like everything you do is gonna be wrong. That's kinda where I am now. I flushed BB1, BB2 & GG2 yesterday. Today, even though they haven't come close to drying out, I hit them with the hopefully corrected nutes. Now I just sit back and watch and hope. I also have BB3 & GG3, along with a photo Gold Leaf all still in veg so worst case I hope I learn quickly enough to grow those 3 well.

Sorry to post at such length but confession is good for the soul and recording all my dumb errors my help one of your readers along the way. If I'd been a newbie I'd have looked at the label first thing and never made the dosage error. I'd also have been much more careful about checking pH early on. I also found out that there can be huge differences in pH down so if anyone out there changes the pH up or down that you're using do not assume what was correct dosage with one brand will be correct with another. I've got aquariums and the pH down for them is way weaker than the stuff I got from the local hydro store.

Loved the band pics and vid. Looks like you guys really enjoy being together. Rock on!

Maybe dry fertilizer on your next grow? I switched right at flowering from GH 3 bottle system to Geoflora. Top dress every 2 weeks. PH the water and use calmag. That's it. So much simpler and not so much to mix. It's what I'm going to use for the foreseeable future. Good luck with what you can harvest this time!
D

 

[BubbaKush909]

Thanks for your reply. Is this the first time you've used silica? I recall using it at first and then stopping when I switched to clones mostly cause I ran out and couldn't see any difference. Growers used it then to strengthen the stalk and branches, is that still the idea? My clones were only 2-3 feet tall so it wasn't much of an issue, but hopefully the Gold Leaf will need extra strength. I also don't have a root stimulator of any type, does that need to be added when you're prepping the soil or do you know of anything you can add to the nutes?

I'm really impressed with the Bruce Banner autos. They are big, the flowers are big, they have a deep green color, really beautiful looking plants. The GG's are more sativa, you can see it in the leaves. Overall smaller plants than the BB's at least under my less than skillful care. Hopefully they all smoke well.

I've noticed more 3 fingered leaves with these autos than I'm used to seeing. Have you noticed that as well?

I'm going to look for a GH soil feeding sked. Take care!

 

[BubbaKush909]

Maybe dry fertilizer on your next grow? I switched right at flowering from GH 3 bottle system to Geoflora. Top dress every 2 weeks. PH the water and use calmag. That's it. So much simpler and not so much to mix. It's what I'm going to use for the foreseeable future. Good luck with what you can harvest this time!
D

Great suggestion DeeBoy, I was thinking along the same lines. There are so many ways to grow in soil once you figure out what you're doing. I really like the idea of the living soil that Jon's using and am anxious to see how it goes. Sounds like an organic pot version of miracle gro potting soil. My first successful grow after 2-3 disasters was under the tutelage of Doc Bud, who I see is still around. I grew in 5 gal buckets of perlite with a handful of Osmocote 2 pellets mixed in beforehand.

It was an indoor grow in the winter and was awesome, all I did was add water, calmag & silica. One of those plants was a Bubba Kush which is to this day one of my favorites and I will hopefully grow it again. Anyhow, by the time harvest rolled around it was late spring and I immediately set out to do it again. I live in the midwest and at the time couldn't control the temps like I can now, and it gets quite hot around here in the summer. Unfortunately the hotter it gets the more nutes the OC2 pellets release, and by the time I realized that it was too late. They all got fried in a matter of days. So I'm leery of slow release nutes.

My mind went there because I loved the simplicity of that grow, and I'm drawn to the idea of mixing a soil with everything you need in advance, or at least most of it. I've had good luck with tomatoes doing that with Mater Magic but I'm not sure how well that would transfer to our favorite plant. So much to learn!

 

[Jon]

Thanks for your reply. Is this the first time you've used silica? I recall using it at first and then stopping when I switched to clones mostly cause I ran out and couldn't see any difference. Growers used it then to strengthen the stalk and branches, is that still the idea? My clones were only 2-3 feet tall so it wasn't much of an issue, but hopefully the Gold Leaf will need extra strength. I also don't have a root stimulator of any type, does that need to be added when you're prepping the soil or do you know of anything you can add to the nutes?

I'm really impressed with the Bruce Banner autos. They are big, the flowers are big, they have a deep green color, really beautiful looking plants. The GG's are more sativa, you can see it in the leaves. Overall smaller plants than the BB's at least under my less than skillful care. Hopefully they all smoke well.

I've noticed more 3 fingered leaves with these autos than I'm used to seeing. Have you noticed that as well?

I'm going to look for a GH soil feeding sked. Take care!

Hey BK909 - Yes, this is the first time for silica. Worthy of note is it's actually mono-silicic acid at 40% concentration. Not what most everyone buys as silica, which rarely breaks 2%. In this form it is immediately accessible to the plant. In the commonly bought form it takes weeks to break into the form the plant can use. That's my simplified version. So I did the math on their suggested feeding and it literally came out to one drop per half gallon. Lol. That's concentrated. Today the plants got their first application of it. ONE DROP in half a gallon of water makes the water foamy upon exiting the sprayer and hitting the soil. Foamy and clear. Very odd. I did that at 6 am and the plants aren't dead yet. So far so good. Lol.

Yes, I use a root stimulator besides anything in any of the nute packages, and it's as easy as pie. Great White mycorrhizae. There's tons of different kinds, that just happens to be the one I use. It's a dust that I shake into any transplant hole before transplanting, and use occasionally as a top dressing in very small amounts. I believe strongly that this is why my root balls have been so solid, along with using Emilya's watering technique properly.

The Hulkberry I'm growing now is Royal Queen Seeds version of Bruce Banner #3 according to them. I'm real curious to see if it's as productive a strain as it claims to be. But I love the mom and dad plants, so hopefully it'll be sweet.

With autos I found all kinds of different numbered leaves, 3s, 5s, 7s, and even 9s. Haven't seen an 11 yet although I saw one in someone's journal on here. There seems to be a bit more variation in that regard to autos than there are to photos, at least that's what I see so far.

Are you using 3s or 5s for your plants? I started my auto career in 3s but now will only use 5s. They EASILY fill up a 3 gallon pot long before harvest. Long enough, I found, that their growth gets limited in a 3. The Sour Apple Sue Anne I have now would never get this big in a 3. She's in a 5. If you use 3's right now, you might want to try one in a five and see how it goes. You may be pleasantly surprised. I was.

 

[Jon]

Update
Grow/Veg Day 12
First Closeups of the Girls!!

My damn Phillies game got postponed due to Covid, so I guess I'm stuck with you guys. Lol. So I thought I'd take the opportunity and introduce y'all to the ladies properly. They were all looking pretty happy, so I snapped closeups of each one and here they are. You'll have to forgive me if I post pictures every three to five days for a while. It's important to me to document the whole grow, but early veg in particular, when the ladies are most vulnerable. Plus it's three new strains to me and I need to have a record of what they look like as they progress. Anyway, a couple things about this week.....

- Monday was the first nutrient application. It's Wednesday. If there was any issue with that first nute application I would see it by now. No negative anything.
- After speaking with Emilya, my path to how to feed twice a week when watering basically daily became clear. Here's the schedule for week one including projection through the end of the week -
M - First nute application for GTH and Chunkadelic. Hulkberry is a few days behind the others so she will start next Monday. Slurricane got zero cuz she's going into living soil.
T - Water
W - Only weekly application of mono-silicic acid on all four plants.
TH - Water
F - Second of the two weekly feedings of nutrients for GTH and Chunkadelic.
S - Water
SU - Water
- Worthy of note is that the concentration of the mono-silicic acid is 1 DROP per HALF GALLON. I did the math five times to be sure, and the smallest measuring increment I'm capable of creating/measuring is a drop. YES, a drop is an actual official measurement, google it. I had to. You can check my math if you like. Keep in mind that you cannot measure half a drop. Their recommended concentration is .3 ml./10 L. Go ahead and try and convert that into something you can measure. I'm pretty good at math, and it took me a while to figure it out. But when I did I got the 1 drop per half gallon. First, that's hilarious. Second, that's CONCENTRATED. And interestingly, 1 damn drop of this stuff in a half gallon makes the water foamy upon application. Just a tiny bit, but noticeably. I didn't expect that and was momentarily taken aback. But I trusted my math skills and went with it. I guess I'll know soon enough if I'm overdoing it.
- The environmental conditions you see in the photo is pretty much where I've kept them by day, by night it gets about 4 degrees cooler. Going for a little bit drier of a veg this time - 50-60% versus 60-70%.
- The par at plant level is now 520. Just measured. It's the same everywhere due to the immense and even footprint of the light. Very consistent. This is maybe a bit high for early veg, but so far I don't see any negative response. In fact, the Chunkadelic is prays and asks for more. The others are basically sitting at perfectly horizontal to the ground or a little up. We're going with it. For the first weeks we just let the plants grow up naturally into the light and they get more par as they grow.

That's as succinct as I can be. Lol.

So ladies and gentlemen, these are the ladies:

- Ghost Train Haze
- Hulkberry
- Slurricane
- Chunkadelic
- Environmental conditions

Enjoy!

 

[DeeBoy]

Great suggestion DeeBoy, I was thinking along the same lines. There are so many ways to grow in soil once you figure out what you're doing. I really like the idea of the living soil that Jon's using and am anxious to see how it goes. Sounds like an organic pot version of miracle gro potting soil. My first successful grow after 2-3 disasters was under the tutelage of Doc Bud, who I see is still around. I grew in 5 gal buckets of perlite with a handful of Osmocote 2 pellets mixed in beforehand.

It was an indoor grow in the winter and was awesome, all I did was add water, calmag & silica. One of those plants was a Bubba Kush which is to this day one of my favorites and I will hopefully grow it again. Anyhow, by the time harvest rolled around it was late spring and I immediately set out to do it again. I live in the midwest and at the time couldn't control the temps like I can now, and it gets quite hot around here in the summer. Unfortunately the hotter it gets the more nutes the OC2 pellets release, and by the time I realized that it was too late. They all got fried in a matter of days. So I'm leery of slow release nutes.

My mind went there because I loved the simplicity of that grow, and I'm drawn to the idea of mixing a soil with everything you need in advance, or at least most of it. I've had good luck with tomatoes doing that with Mater Magic but I'm not sure how well that would transfer to our favorite plant. So much to learn!

Since I switched in mid grow I didn’t know what to expect, but the new growth in the buds is green and lush. I’m growing autos in a 3x3 tent. My 4 plants are small but full of buds. I was hoping for a 1/2 pound, I think I have a chance…