Jon's New Pared Down Setup Soil Grow: 3 Photo & 1 Auto With New Dedicated Auto Rig

[DeeBoy]

Hi Guys!

Well, it's time to move on. As explained in previous journal, I was forced to pare down my setup, so after a day to think about it I set up the new digs all around. They will be unveiled right now as we begin my third grow (I'm counting the current Sour Apple Auto solo plant grow as part of my second grow, this journal will officially begin my third).

So as I always do, I started over with infrastructure. The nine pictures at the end are the panoramic view of the new setup all around the garage, and some specific shots of the new perpetual one-plant-at-a-time autoflower setup. I like to call it the auto rig. We are rocking the single auto setup and the Gorilla tent for this grow.

JON'S THIRD GROW:

1 Chunkadelic Autoflower by Humboldt Seed Company - this is an indica, it is a cross of Dark Devil Headband x Magic Melon, 75 to 90 days from seed, average THC up to 22%+

1 Purple Crunch Photoperiod by Greenpoint Seeds - this is an indica leaning hybrid cross of Do-Si-Dos x Purple Punch, which brings together the genetics of Girl Scout Cookies, OG Kush, Grandaddy Purple, and Larry OG. 9-10 weeks of flower, average THC up to 25%+

1 Hulkberry Photoperiod by Royal Queen Seeds - this is a sativa leaning hybrid cross of Strawberry Diesel x OG Kush. 9-10 weeds of flower, average THC up to 28%+

1 Ghost Train Haze Photoperiod by Weedseedexpress - this is an 80/20 sativa heavy cross of Ghost OG x Neville's Wreck. 9-10 weeks of flower, average THC up to 30%+

The auto will be grown in the dedicated autoflower rig shown below. The lights are my (2) Non-sponsored 1000 watt blurples, actual wattage draw 286/each, total actual wattage 572. Not bad and enough light for just a single auto that they should be prize winning plants. Note the lack of any covering around the rig and the lack of any exhaust. Part of our deal was I have to keep the door to the house closed now. So I can smell the garage up as much as I want. No need for a tent to grow one single auto. Just fans to cool the lights and fans on the plant and a dehumidifier. The average conditions in the garage are low 80s by day and mid 70s by night, and the RH ranges from around 65% to about 50%. Not perfect, but plenty okay to grow one auto in that environment and still produce an amazing plant. Using the experience of the current Sour Apple as a guide of sorts, I think it's at least safe to say if left alone to grow straight up and tall with one main cola and whatever else comes, any autoflower I grow in this rig/setup should have plenty of space. They can grow as wide or as tall as they want. Starting point for the lights are 36" above the plants, and we can get as close with these lights as about 16". I can move the lights up another 18" if necessary and I have around 7 inches to play with at the base the pot sits on if I need to remove any bricks to lower the pot. So there's the short version of the auto rig, you can see what's there.

With the photoperiod plants I am breaking my own rule. I am NOT going with the same strain only, obviously. That was only necessary due to the necessity of harvesting at the same time and having to dry in the tent. I am no longer in that position and can easily create a dedicated drying spot in the garage should it become necessary. The pare down has it's advantages. So I'm growing these three different strains, and all three of them will be trained with significant LST with the goal of producing three Sadie-esque plants. Basically I'm doing a three plant scrog without the screen, or at least that's how I think of it. Trying to max bud sites with only one topping is the goal, and quality is the only concern. Yield is no longer any concern to me, only quality. If you do things right, the yield will be there. I also cleaned the entire Gorilla tent with warm water, hydrogen peroxide, and lemon juice to kill any latent pollen that may have still been hanging around since the scrog went seedy.

So for all four plants:

Soil: 40% Fox Farms Ocean Forest/40% Fox Farms Happy Frog/20% Mother Earth perlite #3
Nutes: Fox Farms Big Bloom/Grow Big/Tiger Bloom trio, Organic unsulphured blackstrap molasses, Humboldt's Secret CalMag plus Iron, Non-sponsored mycorrhizae, Central Coast Garden Products Mono-silicic Acid.
Watering: Will begin with plain water for the first two weeks and then begin nute/nute/clean water pattern. I only use @Emilya's watering method along with a smidgen of @Bill284's, and it works beautifully.
Lights: Auto - (2) 1000 watt non-sponsored blurples/Photo - (1) Non-sponsored 550/680 watt professional quality high-end LED with flower booster, IR, Far Reds, etc.

The approximate par numbers I work with for the five (I divide a grow into five parts) parts of the photoperiod grow are:
Seedling/Early Veg: 400-600 par
Veg: 600-800 par
Late Veg: 800-1000 par
Early Flower: 1000-1200 par
Late Flower: 1200-1350 par

The autoflower as it sits now is around 450 par at pot level with both lights on full spectrum. As the plant grows up it will grow into more and more par as it grows. If it gets tall enough that I am higher at top of cola height than 1350 par I will either raise the lights or lower the plant.
I use the Korona app to measure my par numbers and have found it to be extremely accurate. If the auto begins to flower before it has reached the 1000 par height level I can raise the plant very easily. The goal is to not have to move the lights unless absolutely necessary.
Pots: All plants will go begin in one gallon pots and transplant to five gallon fabric pots
Strains: see above, but I really like having genetics in play from four different breeders at once, three of which I have never tried. Only the Humboldt Seed Company genetics have I used, and they are stellar. Hope the others are the same, all the seed banks are well-respected.
Infrastructure: Auto - autoflower rig as shown below/Photo - 5 x 5 Gorilla Tent with 1 foot height extender and multiple fans, along with an 8000 btu air conditioning unit as the only intake, pushed directly up against a lower round hole in the tent and sealed. No tubing this time. Exhaust is a 6" AC Infinity fan and 6" AC Infinity Australian charcoal filter. I went WAY overboard in terms of light leaks or potential light leaks despite it being a new Gorilla tent, with blankets across the top and hanging down to cover all zippers that get hit with light, and all small and large holes sealed with various blocking mechanisms, lol, like a t shirt inside of a round carboard cutout to block the hole completely. This tent is a tank and is 100% as sealed as sealed can be. We will tolerate no light leaks and no plant stress this time. No more hermie. Screw that.
Growing Philosophy: The auto will be left alone for the most part other than trimming fan leaves as necessary, and will be on an 18/6 light schedule. It will start in a one gallon and transplant to a five gallon pot. The photos will be topped using Uncle Ben's method, between nodes two and three, and then LST'ed to spread them as wide as possible and create as many bud sites as possible. We will veg them for at least 60 days and then flip them. Veg will be 18/6, flower 12/12. They will begin in one gallon pots and be transplanted to five gallon pots. From a purely philosophical point of view, yield is not an issue, only quality. I only care about high quality plants with super awesome high quality top shelf buds.

So that's about it. I have all four seeds in wet paper towels as we speak and soon they will be on their way. The day all four are sprouted will be day one of the grow. I guess I should tag people, right? So hey @Michael Hunt, @Bill284, @Emilya, @Bud Love, @Squiggle, @Virgin Ground, @Diatomacious, @InTheShed, @bluter, and whoever else wants to check it out, here's my new journal and new grow. I'd be honored if you guys want to join me for the ride. And honestly I can use the help. Lol.

Photographs are first a panoramic view of the new setup in the garage space as a whole, and then there are two closeups of the dedicated autoflower rig showing it powered and non-powered, plus one shot to show the average garage conditions the auto will have to deal with.

Enjoy, and thanks!
.

I’m in.

 

[Jon]

So here's something I will only do once, and I'm tucking it away in my own post so nobody can get pissed at me. This is a short video of what I do when I'm not working or growing weed. This is from my recent vacation to the mountains a few weeks ago. This is what we do up there, every year (except last year cuz Covid) for the last 29 years. Except the band now all lives in different parts of the country and we don't practice or play together ever. Lol. Except here, once a year. So while we were largely a Dead and original band, I picked a more accessible song that maybe even non-Deadheads that may listen might like. No idea how this sounds in real headphones or bluetoothed yet, so it's a crapshoot. Hope I don't hurt anyone's ears too badly. I'm the guy sitting down with the bass. Lmao.

 

[Bill284]

Lmao! You're hilarious. I knew you'd say that. I agree. But you know what? I'm gonna be smart instead. I looked last night at a ton of stuff on Chocolope. More people are growing this strain than I thought, there were tons of grow journals to check out. And one of the things I found was fairly consistent among the maybe dozen or so journals I saw of indoor grows of it was just the damn SIZE of the plant. This thing gets BIG. Like, it appears it will get as big as I let it get. I suppose most plants are like that, but I'm saying people were consistently having trouble controlling it, underestimating the stretch, letting it take over their tents, etc. It's a grower for sure, as to be expected with an almost pure sativa. And that's the other thing. An almost pure sativa. That's just GOT to be different than all these hybrids I've been growing. It has to be. And I'm already worried the Ghost Train Haze is gonna be hard to control after seeing @Virgin Ground's grow of it (wow, she did really well, I hope I get CLOSE to what she got, even though this isn't an organic grow). That strain is a grower too. And who the hell knows what's gonna happen with the Hulkberry and the Slurricane? I looked at a ton of journals of those strains too (not just here, lots of places), and they seemed to be all over the map, depending on the skill level of the grower. This question just occurred to me: would you happen to know of anyone in here who has grown either Slurricane or Hulkberry (which is essentially Bruce Banner #3, despite being technically a hybrid, if that helps, I'm sure it grows very similar to BB3)? I have VG's GTH grow for reference on that strain. She doesn't know it yet but she's my Yoda for this strain on this grow and I intend to pepper her with questions if necessary. LOL! (Hi VG!) Anyway Bill, the bottom line is that I already have more than enough unanswered questions on this grow, despite it being only three plants. It isn't as if I've ever grown any of these strains before. (Lol, that might be the only upside to the stupid new grower learning curve - everything is new all the time) And I'm also using the new nutes. PLUS, yesterday I got my first bag of Sohum living soil. Going to check that out this grow too on the transplant with a plant or two. It will be my first foray into organic/living soil growing, and it seems to be about as easy as it gets. I'm super curious to see the difference it makes. I feel the Fox Farms custom mix I use is really good, and my plants seem to love it. No burning, no nothing bad at all. And the medicine tastes great in this soil. BUT....I also don't really have any reference points to compare to. And I have to believe it gets better.

At the end of the day, there are just too many variables in play already to take on what I believe will be a significantly challenging plant to grow properly (the way I want to), and a plant that cost me $15/seed for legacy collectors seeds. I'm gonna wait on the Chocolope and give it a dedicated grow to itself. I may even sprout all six seeds and take the best four phenos and give the other two plants to another grower. That'll be then my fourth grow, and after this one I should be better positioned. I will also have the reference of the living soil cuz maybe I'll grow them all in that if it's as good as I think it's gonna be.

See? I'm not THAT dumb, and I'm not THAT much of a cowboy. Sometimes I actually err on the side of caution, squelch my more destructive natural instincts, and decide NOT to bite off more than I can chew. Lmao. This would be one of those times. Ha! Betcha someone tells me that was the right decision. Lol. Maybe even you.

So as I'm late getting to this post I'm just going reply without reading the 20 replies you got already.
My wife likes to plan everything with a back up contingency plan and a back up for that.
We are completely opposite people. Hehe
I jump into everything without a care or plan.
If I want to do something I just do it.
I Don't think about what could go wrong or how im going to do it.
Fek it I'm in all in the hell with what everyone else is doing.
Sure I run into problems some I overcome some, some not so much.
But im not a worrier.
Not to say I don't plan. I am very analytical.
I can look at a house and give you an accurate material list down to the last screw and circuit breaker.
Just confident in my ability to overcome.
Mind you I get in trouble now and then but rarely.
So all that being said fek it id just grow her and clone that $15 seed to death.
Then flower her and see what happens.
I mix my rooms according to what im getting low on never what works best.
I grow my Blueberry with my Gorilla Glue.
Probably a 2/3 foot height difference but I don't care i just deal with it.
I understand your trepidation and fully see your point.
Do what you think is best for you my friend.
I'll watch the show.
Bill.

 

[Jon]

So as I'm late getting to this post I'm just going reply without reading the 20 replies you got already.
My wife likes to plan everything with a back up contingency plan and a back up for that.
We are completely opposite people. Hehe
I jump into everything without a care or plan.
If I want to do something I just do it.
I Don't think about what could go wrong or how im going to do it.
Fek it I'm in all in the hell with what everyone else is doing.
Sure I run into problems some I overcome some, some not so much.
But im not a worrier.
Not to say I don't plan. I am very analytical.
I can look at a house and give you an accurate material list down to the last screw and circuit breaker.
Just confident in my ability to overcome.
Mind you I get in trouble now and then but rarely.
So all that being said fek it id just grow her and clone that $15 seed to death.
Then floer her and see what happens.
I mix my rooms according to what im getting low on never what works best.
I grow my Blueberry with my Gorilla Glue.
Probably a 2/3 foot height difference but I don't care i just deal with it.
I understand your trepidation and fully see your point.
Do what you think is best for you my friend.
I'll watch the show.
Bill.

Thanks Bill. Yeah I'm not going to. If I had your experience level, that's one thing. At my level that's quite another. So I'll just be patient and then take your course of action. That auto station can double as a mother plant station. Lol.

 

[Diatomacious]

Love the nute station idea. Should make life a whole lot easier.

Feel like I need to order a drink listening to your band.
Sounds good, you sure you guys don't practice together?

 

[Bud Love]

Howdy do,
Awesome write up and set up, very well presented.. anyway, thanks for the tag. I will be following closely. Good luck mate

Thanks for the shout Jon..bring it on

 

[Jon]

Love the nute station idea. Should make life a whole lot easier.

Feel like I need to order a drink listening to your band.
Sounds good, you sure you guys don't practice together?

Thanks man. No we were a "thing" in southeastern PA back in the 90s. IMHO, my coolest moment as a musician was we got to open at the Middle East in Philly for Warren Haynes and Alan Woody when he was still alive, with Barry Sless on pedal steel. If you're into that kind of music, those guys are off the charts amazing - Alan was the Allman Brothers bass player. So after the show we all hung out overnight in the bar with the Mafia-connected owner and did Pablo Escobar's finest and played acoustic guitars with them until like four in the morning. I'll never forget it. We all still play in other bands, we're just all spread out across the east coast and to Pittsburgh going west. So once a year we revisit with a bunch of other bands up there in the mountains in that barn that was built just for us, with tons of power and outlets and all that crap. 200 of our closest friends. It's a blast and it's beautiful and completely removed from any authority figures. Fun weekend. And no man, I appreciate it, but that song is just real easy to play for even beginner musicians. It's a standard blues tune, doesn't really get any easier to at least approximate. Lol.

Back to the important stuff. Yeah, today was watering day for Sue Anne and I fricking LOVED having that table. Beats the crap out of using the foot rest on my electric wheelchair. And with these Dutch nutes I'm using for part of this grow, I'm gonna need to be able to be exact. It will and already does really help. Thanks.

 

[Bud Love]

Oiy, Jonny boy.. loving the jam mate..
Looks like y’all havin a great time of it.
Peace, tunes an buds to ya
ace set up too..

 

[Jon]

Grow Day Three
Veg Day Three
Gang's All Here
Infrastructure Arrivals

Got two things we're trying out this grow today. The Sohum living soil, which we're going to try out on the Chunkadelic Auto and the Slurricane (Purple Crunch) photo, and our mono-silicic acid. The soil is what it is, it comes highly recommended, and we'll see if it is truly "just add water" or not. The MSA, I figure, comes out to about $1/drop, as this little TINY bottle was $50. Damn. Better be good. Lol.

The girls are inching towards their first week in the books. Hulkberry seems to really wanna hold on to her damn seed coat. I don't mess too much with a stuck seed coat, it happens all the time. They fall off. Every time. But until it does it's unseemly and I don't like it. Lol. Other than that just a typical first week seedling deal, not too much to get excited about. There are a couple shots of product and a shot of the four girls and their environmental conditions in the auto rig. Working out pretty nicely conditions-wise for the first two weeks of growth. If I dialed it in myself that's just about exactly where I'd have them.

 

[Jon]

REARRANGEMENT TO FINAL HOMES UPDATE
Grow/Veg Day 6
Sue Anne Day 63

Ok so today I deemed the seedlings capable of beginning their life under the spectrum they're craving. No more pussyfooting around with these girls. With the exception of the stubborn seed coat on the Hulkberry (which is still hanging on, damnit, lol) they're all doing great six days in and developing as they're supposed to. I also checked the trichomes on Sue Anne Sour Apple and she is still milking up as expected, but is getting close enough that I felt it was okay to make the switch. The point was/is to get the new grow under the professional light ASAP, and now that is done. It will be a little warmer and a little more humid than me and Sue Anne prefer to finish budding in the auto rig, but she's got plenty of ventilation and the temperature at the top of her is max 82 degrees in the hottest part of the day. She's getting hit with around 1300 par as you see her in the pictures. So she'll finish just fine, and meanwhile now we can get serious about this grow. Lol.

Photographs:

- Sue Anne and the setup necessary to keep her happy environmentally. The styrofoam and cardboard pieces, believe it or not, are there to focus the AC on the plant and cover top to bottom as much of her as possible. It actually works pretty well. I could even raise the AC unit if I thought it was necessary, and may do that later so that the top of the plant is getting the cool more directly as that's where the heat is, duh. Just waiting on my assistant for that one. Lol.

- Closeup of the Sour Apple showing how she looks in the silly converted crappy old furniture piece.

- Pull back shot of the Gorilla tent and the new grow in their new environment showing distance from light and positioning of fans. The big fan is off for now, obviously. All the plants are getting just enough air to be jiggling slightly. I start the moving air asap, and that's now. Between the two fans on buckets and the two black clip fans hanging on the left, plus the big fan when they get big enough to justify it, these girls will have plenty or ventilation at all times. It also helps spread the AC evenly in the tent when it comes in in only one concentrated spot. At this distance the par level with the Korona app sitting right on top of the pots in the middle is almost exactly 400, which is just fine. They were at 350 in the auto rig station.

- Closeup of the girls. The back right label is facing the wrong way, but it's the Chunkadelic, and the back left blue label is the Slurricane. The Ghost Train Haze and Hulkberry facing us in the front of the picture are labeled correctly, ie, the label is facing the right way. I really should cross off the back or not re-use these dumb things. Lol. When Sue Anne gets the chop, the Chunkadelic will take her place in the auto rig and the three photos will have the tent to themselves.

- Environmental conditions in the Gorilla that we'll be going with for a while.

So that was a little work, but well worth it. Bring it on. Game time.

 

[Jon]

Grow/Veg Day 7
Nutrient/Soil Planning and Implementation

Sorry guys this is a boring words only post.

Ok, we're a week in today, so it's time to get our nutrient scheme figured out. We have a number of things to work with, and along with the nutrient scheme goes the planning for the alternate soil scheme. Yes, there are schemes going on around here. Lol. Lots of schemes.

So regarding nutrients, here are the options we have to work with:

1. Fox Farms trio of Big Bloom, Grow Big, and Tiger Bloom.
2. Well known Dutch nutrient line (non-sponsored) that consists of an "A" type Veg and a "B" type Flower primary nute, plus additives including a Rhizotonic for root mass and plant health, a Boost for the appropriate push in bud at the right time, and Cannazym for overall plant health throughout the grow. It's a full line and I have all the parts so I plan to use it completely. Why do it half way? If I'm gonna try a new line, I'm gonna try the line, otherwise what's the point? I even re-printed the feeding charts with conversions of liters to gallons, since I'm an American dummy.
3. Botanicare Pro duo of Pure Blend Pro Grow and Pure Blend Pro Bloom. These are the easiest of the bunch. One nute for each cycle. No additives.
4. Espoma Organic Flower-tone Blossom Booster, which is a dry top dressing that's formulated at 3-4-5 along with a good amount of Calcium. Magnesium, and Sulphur. This is a long term release nute that is applied to the soil monthly over the course of the grow. Ok I lied. THIS is the easiest of the bunch. Lol.
5. 40% Mono-silicic acid for strong roots and branches and increased density to branch mass plus numerous other benefits, not the least of which is it aids in plant recovery from things like topping and supercropping and trimming and such. This is used at .1/ml per gallon of water. The suggested frequency is every other watering (weekly) during the entire course of the grow.
6. Organic unsulphured blackstrap molasses.
7. Humboldt's Secret CalMag plus Iron

And regarding soil, our options are as follows:

1. Fox Farms Ocean Forest
2. Fox Farms Happy Frog
3. Sohum Living Soil
4. Mother Earth perlite #3

All four plants are currently in one gallon pots and will remain in them until transplant into fives. They are starting out in the custom 40% FFOF/40% FFHF/20% perlite mixture I have been using. None of them have gotten a whiff of a nute yet, and all have been given only bottled water.

SO....I think I have a plan. Here's what I *think* I'm going to do with each of the four plants.

1. Slurricane (Purple Crunch) - this girl is going to be the test photo plant for the Sohum living soil. Thankfully I do my research, cuz I almost started the seedlings in the Sohum, which, if you read, clearly is a bad idea. Glad I did that so I didn't have to start over. So when she gets transplanted to the five, the five will be filled with the Sohum and we'll take her from there. In theory, up to around week 7 or so of budding, this soil should be self-supporting, ie, all I have to do is water it with appropriately Ph-ed water. Beyond week 7 of budding or so they may run out of food and need some late budding additives. We'll see how it goes.
2. Ghost Train Haze - this is the plant I am most excited about. I am going to stick to what I know with her, and where my knowledge/comfort/experience zone is. She'll get the standard Fox Farms trio of nutes, and she will be transplanted into the same Fox Farms custom mix she is currently living in. Again, this is my comfort zone and where I am least prone to making a mistake (in theory, lol), so I'm going with that for the GTH.
3. Hulkberry (Bruce Banner #3 F2) - We are going with the Dutch nutrient line on the Hulkberry, she'll be the test photo plant for that nute line. Since it's new nutes, I am going to stick with the Fox Farms custom soil mix with her as well, in order to minimize variables. An entire new line of nutes is plenty of variables.
4. Chunkadelic Autoflower - Also using the Dutch nute line on the Chunkster. Want to see how autos respond to this line. I already know they do pretty well with the Fox Farms line. She'll go into the Fox Farms custom soil mix as well, for the same reasons as the Hulkberry.

ALL the plants get molasses throughout budding and all the way through the flush.
All the plants get CalMag plus Iron as necessary.
All the plants will get the mono-silicic acid applied every other watering at .1/ml per gallon.
CAVEAT: The above three statement are "in theory," as I don't yet know how the response will be regarding those three things and the Sohum soil - have to play that one by ear this time. This is in part why I'm only trying the living soil out on one plant this time.
All the water will be Ph adjusted with each and every watering to maintain the appropriate Ph, depending on what each plant likes (within reason). Usual Ph target for soil, around 6.5-ish, maybe a little higher depending.
We will forgo the Botanicare and Espoma nutes for this grow.

Sound like a plan? As usual, I am TOTALLY open to tweaks on this, or even wholesale changes, as nutes don't start for another week or so. I have time. So if anyone knows or believes any of this is a bad idea for some reason, PLEASE share your experience. On the other hand, if anyone thinks this plan is reasonable feel free to let me know that as well. I'm halfway flying blind on some of this stuff. Which beats TOTALLY flying blind. I must be learning something. Lol.

Thanks guys.

 

[Emilya Green]

Grow/Veg Day 7
Nutrient/Soil Planning and Implementation

Sorry guys this is a boring words only post.

Ok, we're a week in today, so it's time to get our nutrient scheme figured out. We have a number of things to work with, and along with the nutrient scheme goes the planning for the alternate soil scheme. Yes, there are schemes going on around here. Lol. Lots of schemes.

So regarding nutrients, here are the options we have to work with:

1. Fox Farms trio of Big Bloom, Grow Big, and Tiger Bloom.
2. Well known Dutch nutrient line (non-sponsored) that consists of an "A" type Veg and a "B" type Flower primary nute, plus additives including a Rhizotonic for root mass and plant health, a Boost for the appropriate push in bud at the right time, and Cannazym for overall plant health throughout the grow. It's a full line and I have all the parts so I plan to use it completely. Why do it half way? If I'm gonna try a new line, I'm gonna try the line, otherwise what's the point? I even re-printed the feeding charts with conversions of liters to gallons, since I'm an American dummy.
3. Botanicare Pro duo of Pure Blend Pro Grow and Pure Blend Pro Bloom. These are the easiest of the bunch. One nute for each cycle. No additives.
4. Espoma Organic Flower-tone Blossom Booster, which is a dry top dressing that's formulated at 3-4-5 along with a good amount of Calcium. Magnesium, and Sulphur. This is a long term release nute that is applied to the soil monthly over the course of the grow. Ok I lied. THIS is the easiest of the bunch. Lol.
5. 40% Mono-silicic acid for strong roots and branches and increased density to branch mass plus numerous other benefits, not the least of which is it aids in plant recovery from things like topping and supercropping and trimming and such. This is used at .1/ml per gallon of water. The suggested frequency is every other watering (weekly) during the entire course of the grow.
6. Organic unsulphured blackstrap molasses.
7. Humboldt's Secret CalMag plus Iron

And regarding soil, our options are as follows:

1. Fox Farms Ocean Forest
2. Fox Farms Happy Frog
3. Sohum Living Soil
4. Mother Earth perlite #3

All four plants are currently in one gallon pots and will remain in them until transplant into fives. They are starting out in the custom 40% FFOF/40% FFHF/20% perlite mixture I have been using. None of them have gotten a whiff of a nute yet, and all have been given only bottled water.

SO....I think I have a plan. Here's what I *think* I'm going to do with each of the four plants.

1. Slurricane (Purple Crunch) - this girl is going to be the test photo plant for the Sohum living soil. Thankfully I do my research, cuz I almost started the seedlings in the Sohum, which, if you read, clearly is a bad idea. Glad I did that so I didn't have to start over. So when she gets transplanted to the five, the five will be filled with the Sohum and we'll take her from there. In theory, up to around week 7 or so of budding, this soil should be self-supporting, ie, all I have to do is water it with appropriately Ph-ed water. Beyond week 7 of budding or so they may run out of food and need some late budding additives. We'll see how it goes.
2. Ghost Train Haze - this is the plant I am most excited about. I am going to stick to what I know with her, and where my knowledge/comfort/experience zone is. She'll get the standard Fox Farms trio of nutes, and she will be transplanted into the same Fox Farms custom mix she is currently living in. Again, this is my comfort zone and where I am least prone to making a mistake (in theory, lol), so I'm going with that for the GTH.
3. Hulkberry (Bruce Banner #3 F2) - We are going with the Dutch nutrient line on the Hulkberry, she'll be the test photo plant for that nute line. Since it's new nutes, I am going to stick with the Fox Farms custom soil mix with her as well, in order to minimize variables. An entire new line of nutes is plenty of variables.
4. Chunkadelic Autoflower - Also using the Dutch nute line on the Chunkster. Want to see how autos respond to this line. I already know they do pretty well with the Fox Farms line. She'll go into the Fox Farms custom soil mix as well, for the same reasons as the Hulkberry.

ALL the plants get molasses throughout budding and all the way through the flush.
All the plants get CalMag plus Iron as necessary.
All the plants will get the mono-silicic acid applied every other watering at .1/ml per gallon.
CAVEAT: The above three statement are "in theory," as I don't yet know how the response will be regarding those three things and the Sohum soil - have to play that one by ear this time. This is in part why I'm only trying the living soil out on one plant this time.
All the water will be Ph adjusted with each and every watering to maintain the appropriate Ph, depending on what each plant likes (within reason). Usual Ph target for soil, around 6.5-ish, maybe a little higher depending.
We will forgo the Botanicare and Espoma nutes for this grow.

Sound like a plan? As usual, I am TOTALLY open to tweaks on this, or even wholesale changes, as nutes don't start for another week or so. I have time. So if anyone knows or believes any of this is a bad idea for some reason, PLEASE share your experience. On the other hand, if anyone thinks this plan is reasonable feel free to let me know that as well. I'm halfway flying blind on some of this stuff. Which beats TOTALLY flying blind. I must be learning something. Lol.

Thanks guys.

Hi Jon... I would like to suggest to you, based on my long term use of the Fox Farm line, that you add the 3 solubles to your program, the Open Sesame, Beasty Bloomz and Cha-Ching. The suggested soluble used at the right time in the grow can make a huge difference in the response to this nute line, and it is my belief that these really round out the entire package and make it a superior nutrient system. Don't forget as you set up that this group will also require regular 3x flushes of the soil as recommended by Fox Farm labs.

 

[Jon]

Hi Jon... I would like to suggest to you, based on my long term use of the Fox Farm line, that you add the 3 solubles to your program, the Open Sesame, Beasty Bloomz and Cha-Ching. The suggested soluble used at the right time in the grow can make a huge difference in the response to this nute line, and it is my belief that these really round out the entire package and make it a superior nutrient system. Don't forget as you set up that this group will also require regular 3x flushes of the soil as recommended by Fox Farm labs.

Ha! Brilliant, and thank you. I was pretty much there, it was just a matter of the coin. But I got it worked out, so they get ordered today. I was going with the same logic to using all the parts of the Dutch nute line. I've only been using 2/3 of the FF actual line. Time to use the whole shebang. So you really think those additives make a difference eh? And would you use them time-wise when the FF feeding chart says to use them? In terms of what week they get added I mean?

 

[Emilya Green]

Ha! Brilliant, and thank you. I was pretty much there, it was just a matter of the coin. But I got it worked out, so they get ordered today. I was going with the same logic to using all the parts of the Dutch nute line. I've only been using 2/3 of the FF actual line. Time to use the whole shebang. So you really think those additives make a difference eh? And would you use them time-wise when the FF feeding chart says to use them? In terms of what week they get added I mean?

I trust the Fox Farm feeding chart explicitly. I use the exact dosages they call for at the times they recommend. Fox Farm is a scientifically designed growing system and should be followed exactly. When they call for a flush, they are not kidding... if you do not flush at that time you get a conflict with the nutrients coming in next. Used in this manner, yes, the supplements do make a huge difference and the more of the Fox Farm products you buy and use as recommended, the better your grow gets. It was my realization that this was the case, that they had scientifically designed this system that provided incremental and noticeable improvements in the grow depending on much money you spent on their products, that convinced me to get out of that game and go organic, where I could much more cheaply provide everything these plants needed. It was my FF grows beforehand that I used as my benchmark as to how well I was doing organically... they were that good.

 

[Jon]

I trust the Fox Farm feeding chart explicitly. I use the exact dosages they call for at the times they recommend. Fox Farm is a scientifically designed growing system and should be followed exactly. When they call for a flush, they are not kidding... if you do not flush at that time you get a conflict with the nutrients coming in next. Used in this manner, yes, the supplements do make a huge difference and the more of the Fox Farm products you buy and use as recommended, the better your grow gets. It was my realization that this was the case, that they had scientifically designed this system that provided incremental and noticeable improvements in the grow depending on much money you spent on their products, that convinced me to get out of that game and go organic, where I could much more cheaply provide everything these plants needed. It was my FF grows beforehand that I used as my benchmark as to how well I was doing organically... they were that good.

Ok, I get all that and fair enough, but I will say that using the feed chart with the exact prescribed dosages does NOT work for every strain. I have already learned this from attempting exactly what you say. Fox Farms, in my opinion, like ALL sellers of product, wants you to buy more. So they give you the heaviest feeding chart imaginable, despite it being a system. Sure, it's a system, and I get that, and I'll use it this time, cuz I'm sure you're right. But in my experience it does need tweaking. Case in point was that the scrog plants initally got out of whack with the very first feeding, which was exactly at the dosages prescribed. They all went to shit fast. When they recovered and I cut the dosage back, they responded perfectly from then out. Just my limited experience. I'm wary of ALL nute feeding charts in that regard, cuz they ALL want to sell you more product. But yes, I get that it's a system. And it still will be a system exactly as it's supposed to be as long as any adjustments made are made in exactly the same proportions each time relative to which nute you're trying to lessen. The 6 in the Grow Big I have found it to be respected. Just sayin. The fact that one may choose to go with a lesser concentration than FF prescribes does not preclude the entirety of it still being and working as a system. At least that's my argument. Lol.

 

[oldmanjj]

Reading above is exactly why I decided on the organic living soil option. Being a new grower, I didn't want the complexity of the charts or the drain on my wallet. All I have to do is water correctly and so far its been working well.

 

[Emilya Green]

Ok, I get all that and fair enough, but I will say that using the feed chart with the exact prescribed dosages does NOT work for every strain. I have already learned this from attempting exactly what you say. Fox Farms, in my opinion, like ALL sellers of product, wants you to buy more. So they give you the heaviest feeding chart imaginable, despite it being a system. Sure, it's a system, and I get that, and I'll use it this time, cuz I'm sure you're right. But in my experience it does need tweaking. Case in point was that the scrog plants initally got out of whack with the very first feeding, which was exactly at the dosages prescribed. They all went to shit fast. When they recovered and I cut the dosage back, they responded perfectly from then out. Just my limited experience. I'm wary of ALL nute feeding charts in that regard, cuz they ALL want to sell you more product. But yes, I get that it's a system. And it still will be a system exactly as it's supposed to be as long as any adjustments made are made in exactly the same proportions each time relative to which nute you're trying to lessen. The 6 in the Grow Big I have found it to be respected. Just sayin. The fact that one may choose to go with a lesser concentration than FF prescribes does not preclude the entirety of it still being and working as a system. At least that's my argument. Lol.

I will argue right back that unless you were seeing toxicity problems, it was not the feed at the recommended dosages that was the problem, there was something else wrong. The dosage levels are designed for a typical plant in a 10 gallon container under a 1000w light. Most plants can take this dosage, because what isn't used by the plant on the first pass is used on the second water only pass. If your plant is struggling and can't use that much nutrition, it also will not be using as much water, so you will be feeding less often.... it all works out, and with any nutrient system, if you are overfeeding, the plants will give you toxicity indications or lockouts.

Any product manufacturer desires you to buy their goods. To keep you coming back, they need to provide a quality product and have that product work as they say it does. If it was common to have to dilute the product, say to grow autos, and they didn't warn you of this fact, why would you ever repeat your purchase? The cynical viewpoint that manufacturers are simply out to soak you for every dime they can get out of you, by recommending that you overuse their product, makes no sense and it would be a horrible marketing technique. Any nute manufacturer that actually did this would quickly go out of business.

A lot of internet gurus have become famous and gotten quite a following by following minimalist principles and recommending that people use 1/4 or 1/2 strength nutes... no matter the brand. This cowardly recommendation has no risk... how are you possibly going to hurt a plant by giving 1/4 nutes? The plants get a minimal boost in nutrition and seem to be thriving, and the guru soaks in admiration when none of his followers get in trouble in their grow. Compare this to someone who is gardening like a boss, and following the instructions. That gardener knows that yes, her plants "could" be doing well in a minimalist garden or even without nutes in the right soil, but she uses FERTILIZER as it was intended, not just to minimally feed her plants, but to supercharge them and make them much more than they could have been without it.

It is the same thing with the advice I gave you at the start of this conversation. Yes, you could grow perfectly good plants just using the basic FF nutes. I recommended that you go a step further, and provide the supplements too. Do you need to have them? no. Will your plants be noticeably bigger if you do use them? IMHO, yes.

Do a side by side someday. Feed one plant 1/4 nutes. Feed the other one like a boss. Let me know what happens.

 

[Jon]

I will argue right back that unless you were seeing toxicity problems, it was not the feed at the recommended dosages that was the problem, there was something else wrong. The dosage levels are designed for a typical plant in a 10 gallon container under a 1000w light. Most plants can take this dosage, because what isn't used by the plant on the first pass is used on the second water only pass. If your plant is struggling and can't use that much nutrition, it also will not be using as much water, so you will be feeding less often.... it all works out, and with any nutrient system, if you are overfeeding, the plants will give you toxicity indications or lockouts.

Any product manufacturer desires you to buy their goods. To keep you coming back, they need to provide a quality product and have that product work as they say it does. If it was common to have to dilute the product, say to grow autos, and they didn't warn you of this fact, why would you ever repeat your purchase? The cynical viewpoint that manufacturers are simply out to soak you for every dime they can get out of you, by recommending that you overuse their product, makes no sense and it would be a horrible marketing technique. Any nute manufacturer that actually did this would quickly go out of business.

A lot of internet gurus have become famous and gotten quite a following by following minimalist principles and recommending that people use 1/4 or 1/2 strength nutes... no matter the brand. This cowardly recommendation has no risk... how are you possibly going to hurt a plant by giving 1/4 nutes? The plants get a minimal boost in nutrition and seem to be thriving, and the guru soaks in admiration when none of his followers get in trouble in their grow. Compare this to someone who is gardening like a boss, and following the instructions. That gardener knows that yes, her plants "could" be doing well in a minimalist garden or even without nutes in the right soil, but she uses FERTILIZER as it was intended, not just to minimally feed her plants, but to supercharge them and make them much more than they could have been without it.

It is the same thing with the advice I gave you at the start of this conversation. Yes, you could grow perfectly good plants just using the basic FF nutes. I recommended that you go a step further, and provide the supplements too. Do you need to have them? no. Will your plants be noticeably bigger if you do use them? IMHO, yes.

Do a side by side someday. Feed one plant 1/4 nutes. Feed the other one like a boss. Let me know what happens.

Lol. Nope, I'm gonna make it easier than that. You haven't led me wrong yet, I just like to argue and present alternate (and hopefully not completely dumb) points of view. But since you're batting 1.000 with me, I will take your advice, and I will follow the chart EXACTLY as prescribed. See what happens. And you're likely right about the assertion that it was something else, cuz when I look back at what happened, it WAS at the same time as I realized I had the light too low and they were suffering from too much par, which took me several days to diagnose. AND at the same time that was the Uncle Ben topping, which went perfectly but likely put the plants in a slightly more vulnerable condition at around the same time. Make sense? So I'll see what happens. But I'm not going to say it doesn't make me a little nervous. Heck, even Fox Farms says when combining nutes you may need to lower various dosages. But okay girl, as I said, you have yet to lead me astray, and your damn slogan is always in my stupid head. Lol.

 

[Jon]

I will argue right back that unless you were seeing toxicity problems, it was not the feed at the recommended dosages that was the problem, there was something else wrong. The dosage levels are designed for a typical plant in a 10 gallon container under a 1000w light. Most plants can take this dosage, because what isn't used by the plant on the first pass is used on the second water only pass. If your plant is struggling and can't use that much nutrition, it also will not be using as much water, so you will be feeding less often.... it all works out, and with any nutrient system, if you are overfeeding, the plants will give you toxicity indications or lockouts.

Any product manufacturer desires you to buy their goods. To keep you coming back, they need to provide a quality product and have that product work as they say it does. If it was common to have to dilute the product, say to grow autos, and they didn't warn you of this fact, why would you ever repeat your purchase? The cynical viewpoint that manufacturers are simply out to soak you for every dime they can get out of you, by recommending that you overuse their product, makes no sense and it would be a horrible marketing technique. Any nute manufacturer that actually did this would quickly go out of business.

A lot of internet gurus have become famous and gotten quite a following by following minimalist principles and recommending that people use 1/4 or 1/2 strength nutes... no matter the brand. This cowardly recommendation has no risk... how are you possibly going to hurt a plant by giving 1/4 nutes? The plants get a minimal boost in nutrition and seem to be thriving, and the guru soaks in admiration when none of his followers get in trouble in their grow. Compare this to someone who is gardening like a boss, and following the instructions. That gardener knows that yes, her plants "could" be doing well in a minimalist garden or even without nutes in the right soil, but she uses FERTILIZER as it was intended, not just to minimally feed her plants, but to supercharge them and make them much more than they could have been without it.

It is the same thing with the advice I gave you at the start of this conversation. Yes, you could grow perfectly good plants just using the basic FF nutes. I recommended that you go a step further, and provide the supplements too. Do you need to have them? no. Will your plants be noticeably bigger if you do use them? IMHO, yes.

Do a side by side someday. Feed one plant 1/4 nutes. Feed the other one like a boss. Let me know what happens.

Hey Emilya, I was looking more closely at the FF feeding chart in light of our earlier conversation. I note that there are three prescribed flushes over the course of a 12 week grow. Obviously I am vegging twice as long as four weeks at least, and I understand that in that case I simply extend/repeat the concentrations listed for week four until the switch to 12/12. The first week of 12/12 effectively becomes my week five on the chart at that point. No problem. But you mentioned that the flushes are important to do when and as prescribed. Ok, no problem. So about that, I have a few questions if you don't mind.

1. You didn't mention the SledgeHammer. It is listed as the thing to use for the prescribed flushes. Do you think this SledgeHammer is also important/essential to the system as a whole, or do you think it's ok to simply flush with clean water and forgo the SledgeHammer? It would seem to me that following the same logic as before I should pick up the SledgeHammer too. If you don't use the SledgeHammer, can you tell me why not in light of the "system" argument?
2. I assume that the first flush in the FF feeding chart is situated right before the switch to 12/12 due to the desire to flush before budding begins. I get that, I do that anyway. But in light of extending the veg cycle to around 9-10 weeks, is it a safe assumption that I should still execute the first flush in the FF feeding chart at whenever my last watering before flipping to 12/12?

Then I have one other question (of course, lol) -

- You also didn't mention foliar spraying at all. This is listed as Flower Kiss in the orange part of the feeding chart. I get that it is not considered part of the official "whole" of the soil system. My understanding, however, is that it can also be used as an additive in conjunction with the entire system, and it will provide whatever benefits the foliar feeding thing provides. I really don't WANT to foliar spray, for whatever reason I am averse to it and have yet to do it. But if it's essential to the whole I will do it. So I'm not even sure what my specific question is, other than would you mind speaking on this for a second or two, as it applies to this/my specific circumstance (you're plenty familiar enough with what I have going on)?

Thanks as always in advance, Emilya. Please let me know if I can ever do something nice for you off forum. I can think of a couple things that would make you quite happy I think if you're ever so inclined.

 

[Emilya Green]

1. You didn't mention the SledgeHammer. It is listed as the thing to use for the prescribed flushes. Do you think this SledgeHammer is also important/essential to the system as a whole, or do you think it's ok to simply flush with clean water and forgo the SledgeHammer? It would seem to me that following the same logic as before I should pick up the SledgeHammer too. If you don't use the SledgeHammer, can you tell me why not in light of the "system" argument?

Sledgehammer is one of those extra products that while being helpful, isn't totally necessary. It is even easy to create your own sledgehammer by putting some aloe in your flush water. It will allow you to do an effective flush using less water, as it normally takes about 3x the container size to wash the salts out of the soil, a little less if you use warm water. I always got an effective flush by going the full 3x volume and warm water, and found my water was running clean out of the soil at the end.