Jon's First Outdoor Grow: Sugar Breath Photoperiod & Strawberry Banana Autoflower

[Jon]

I may have been a bit of a naughty Moony lol. I was actually suspended for a week and only got back today! I have messaged teddy to get both my journals unlocked. I've got pictures of both grows and the new seeds all doing awesome to show everyone.

It was basically all about me posting videos and not being very patient about my links etc being deleted. I wasnt sleeping and acted like a dick. No excuse but was the reason.

Gonna be a good boy from now on. Although I did enjoy @Teddy Edwards taking charge and whipping me into line! Hahahaha

Better him than Rob, trust me.

 

[Moony]

You and I do many things alike and think the same on training in many ways. You're every bit as good of a person to ask as anyone else here. You have skills, man. So I tend to agree with you and have never before attempted to fill a 5x5 with only two plants for exactly the reasons you say. But when I did four plants in soil in 5s on my scrog that went hermie, it was WAY too much. Maybe three in fives is the sweet spot. Cuz I agree. You can see I took a more "moony" approach on this Apple Blossom, as compared to my last tent harvest plants. Fewer (but still tons) bud sites that are way better spread out, have way more stem under them, and are taller all around.

Your too kind. I'm getting there lol. If there's one area I struggle with its defoliation. I tend to remove a full branch to thin out the canopy and remove leaves in an almost random way until I think I've done enough. I have a problem with confidence in literally every aspect of my life. I struggle to tell someone the sky is blue in a confident way. It's weird haha.
I always worry that Im quite wasteful and will be telling someone something that others on 420 would consider blasphemy haha. Personally I like the 4 corner 4 plant system. That's just my OCD I think haha. Ive studied a few 1 plant runs and they all seem to be in 10+ gallon pots and have a long veg time. They grow the plant tall so it's almost 5 feet tall. Then they will Bend down the stems like a octopus and then install and weave in the netting. I've also seen people who grow and weave. Either way the canopy fills and the yield is good. But the time is long. Other than saying I grow X from 1 plant I don't see any advantage to it. The yield is similar but the quality is more than likely to be less than if you had separate filling the same space. In the same way that a SOG gives only good buds from 24 plants in a 5x5.

If you want my honest opinion. Do a SCrog but do 4 plants in the 5x5. You'll only need to top each plant once. They will be ready to flip after 6-7 week and give the same yield as if you did less plants using the same space but save weeks.

Unless seeds/cuttings are a limiting factor this gives you the optimum results.

Obviously more plants means more plants that can Hermie. But other than that I can't see much of a negative from running 4 instead of 2.

It's no comment on your ability to fill the space. You know you can do that. But wouldn't you rather have a pound of weed 3 weeks sooner if not more. And also it will be easier to trim and maintain because you can lollipop etc easier.

Better him than Rob, trust me.

Lol I laugh but honestly I was a nob. Teddy was more than fair.

 

[Jon]

Your too kind. I'm getting there lol. If there's one area I struggle with its defoliation. I tend to remove a full branch to thin out the canopy and remove leaves in an almost random way until I think I've done enough. I have a problem with confidence in literally every aspect of my life. I struggle to tell someone the sky is blue in a confident way. It's weird haha.
I always worry that Im quite wasteful and will be telling someone something that others on 420 would consider blasphemy haha. Personally I like the 4 corner 4 plant system. That's just my OCD I think haha. Ive studied a few 1 plant runs and they all seem to be in 10+ gallon pots and have a long veg time. They grow the plant tall so it's almost 5 feet tall. Then they will Bend down the stems like a octopus and then install and weave in the netting. I've also seen people who grow and weave. Either way the canopy fills and the yield is good. But the time is long. Other than saying I grow X from 1 plant I don't see any advantage to it. The yield is similar but the quality is more than likely to be less than if you had separate filling the same space. In the same way that a SOG gives only good buds from 24 plants in a 5x5.

If you want my honest opinion. Do a SCrog but do 4 plants in the 5x5. You'll only need to top each plant once. They will be ready to flip after 6-7 week and give the same yield as if you did less plants using the same space but save weeks.

Unless seeds/cuttings are a limiting factor this gives you the optimum results.

Obviously more plants means more plants that can Hermie. But other than that I can't see much of a negative from running 4 instead of 2.

It's no comment on your ability to fill the space. You know you can do that. But wouldn't you rather have a pound of weed 3 weeks sooner if not more. And also it will be easier to trim and maintain because you can lollipop etc easier.


Lol I laugh but honestly I was a nob. Teddy was more than fair.

I've been there, I know. Lol.

So I agree with you mostly. Except for this factor - a plant that stays in veg longer produces better. And in my opinion produces higher quality buds. I don't worry about time in veg so much. I'm fine with 70 or 80 days of veg. I have so much weed now I could do four grows and not run out, so time is no longer an issue, you know? That said, you also have a point. But I can't do a scrog, I'm not capable of managing a screen in the middle of the tent and don't want to go there again. Four separate plants with no screen I can do though. I'm going to ask around and see what others think too. Let's learn some stuff.

 

[Jon]

Is that with netting or just LST?

Nope no netting. LST. I use stakes with twisties attached. Everything is done from underneath rather than above.

EDIT: I also do a little supercropping when I deem it necessary, and I also take the approach that lower node branches that don't look like they'll make the canopy but have long stems, CAN make the canopy. They just might need help. You can bring branches UP to canopy level as well as evening your canopy down. I did one of those today in the minor training and leaf tucking session. I'll show you tomorrow (they're asleep now) what I mean. It's a cool trick I guess everyone does but I hadn't thought of until this grow.

 

[StoneOtter]

nice!

 

[Bill284]

Hey Jon

Stay safe
Bill

 

[7Dust2]

What's up Jon. Sorry been busy with issues. Lmao. How how's the girls

 

[Moony]

I've been there, I know. Lol.

So I agree with you mostly. Except for this factor - a plant that stays in veg longer produces better. And in my opinion produces higher quality buds. I don't worry about time in veg so much. I'm fine with 70 or 80 days of veg. I have so much weed now I could do four grows and not run out, so time is no longer an issue, you know? That said, you also have a point. But I can't do a scrog, I'm not capable of managing a screen in the middle of the tent and don't want to go there again. Four separate plants with no screen I can do though. I'm going to ask around and see what others think too. Let's learn some stuff.

Haha as usual we're on the same page. I completely agree. My current run was just short of 9 week! Hehe I did have some issues with height though lol. I just rebend the branches and twisty tie down using the netting and some brute strength. You basically increase the bend of the branch in a downwards arc.

I've gotta be honest the Scrog wasn't easy this run. Especially in the 4x4 with 5 plants! I'm not a small guy and I just had to do my best when it came to defoliation on the back 2 plants in the 5 plant tent. But my new tent is a 5x5 and it has 2 access windows on each side! This should be the game changer. I have 5 plants I may run all 5 in 7 gallon pots with a 7 week veg depending on height and progress. However if I didn't have the access windows I wouldn't even be considering a 4-5 plant scrOG again haha.

I think with 4 though you do have the middle lane to get access to the back. Again it's not easy I was literally lieing on my side to do them with 1 arm... Then I climb out and use a broom to grab all the bits I cut off. It was effort but in the end the results speak for themselves. The 4 girls are in 9 gallon pots. They have filled them completely with only the tinyest bit of loose medium on the top. The rest is one huge rootball. This means that there are twice as much roots as if I used a 12 gallon single or 2 X 10 gallons. I'm feeding the girls every 2 days during week 2-6 of flower. 6 litres each! That's 6 gallon of nutrients and water being used every 2 days. I think even the biggest plant indoors would struggle with that much absorbtion. It costs more but means alot more potential energy being absorbed. As long as you can keep the environment stable this means maximum top buds and they are looking like they will be forearm length each and chunky. Personally I think this is what delivers the maximum potential from the space. I don't like counting eggs before they are hatched, but if I hit over 16 Oz of top shelf bud from my dos-si-dos OG tent I won't be surprised! That's 4 Oz per plant zero larf. I mean zero shitty buds at all, no weighing the cut offs to try increase that overall yield like I've seen some people do heheh.

I you can find a way to do 4 X LST, HST/suppercropped, topped and scrOG or at least well trained. I guarantee you one of your best runs. It sounds like Alot of work but if you do it in stages it's manageable. I also recommend doing the 2 repots that I do. This helps keep the girls of similar stages of development until they reach their final large cloth pots at week 4-5. By doing this you reach the final pots and get 2-3 week of solid training of girls which are basically the same height. You've seen the diversity of my dos-si-dos. But until I flipped them they where essentially the same plant. Only after flipping did the different heights etc come into play. But if I didn't limit their growth earlier I could have had some serious height problems earlier. (Obviously if your working with cuttings you can ignore this lol)

I'm planning on doing some experimenting for a few years with strains. At the end of which I'll have a decent idea of what I like and don't like and pick a permanent strain to mother. At which point I should have alot more stability from my crops and repeatable results every run. I also want to try a SOG run at some point to see how that goes would be awesome to have 24 plants in 1 gallon pots in my 5x5.

I just need to convince Herbies to give me 30 seeds of one strain haha (some spairs so I can be sure to get 24)

 

[Jon]

Haha as usual we're on the same page. I completely agree. My current run was just short of 9 week! Hehe I did have some issues with height though lol. I just rebend the branches and twisty tie down using the netting and some brute strength. You basically increase the bend of the branch in a downwards arc.

I've gotta be honest the Scrog wasn't easy this run. Especially in the 4x4 with 5 plants! I'm not a small guy and I just had to do my best when it came to defoliation on the back 2 plants in the 5 plant tent. But my new tent is a 5x5 and it has 2 access windows on each side! This should be the game changer. I have 5 plants I may run all 5 in 7 gallon pots with a 7 week veg depending on height and progress. However if I didn't have the access windows I wouldn't even be considering a 4-5 plant scrOG again haha.

I think with 4 though you do have the middle lane to get access to the back. Again it's not easy I was literally lieing on my side to do them with 1 arm... Then I climb out and use a broom to grab all the bits I cut off. It was effort but in the end the results speak for themselves. The 4 girls are in 9 gallon pots. They have filled them completely with only the tinyest bit of loose medium on the top. The rest is one huge rootball. This means that there are twice as much roots as if I used a 12 gallon single or 2 X 10 gallons. I'm feeding the girls every 2 days during week 2-6 of flower. 6 litres each! That's 6 gallon of nutrients and water being used every 2 days. I think even the biggest plant indoors would struggle with that much absorbtion. It costs more but means alot more potential energy being absorbed. As long as you can keep the environment stable this means maximum top buds and they are looking like they will be forearm length each and chunky. Personally I think this is what delivers the maximum potential from the space. I don't like counting eggs before they are hatched, but if I hit over 16 Oz of top shelf bud from my dos-si-dos OG tent I won't be surprised! That's 4 Oz per plant zero larf. I mean zero shitty buds at all, no weighing the cut offs to try increase that overall yield like I've seen some people do heheh.

I you can find a way to do 4 X LST, HST/suppercropped, topped and scrOG or at least well trained. I guarantee you one of your best runs. It sounds like Alot of work but if you do it in stages it's manageable. I also recommend doing the 2 repots that I do. This helps keep the girls of similar stages of development until they reach their final large cloth pots at week 4-5. By doing this you reach the final pots and get 2-3 week of solid training of girls which are basically the same height. You've seen the diversity of my dos-si-dos. But until I flipped them they where essentially the same plant. Only after flipping did the different heights etc come into play. But if I didn't limit their growth earlier I could have had some serious height problems earlier. (Obviously if your working with cuttings you can ignore this lol)

I'm planning on doing some experimenting for a few years with strains. At the end of which I'll have a decent idea of what I like and don't like and pick a permanent strain to mother. At which point I should have alot more stability from my crops and repeatable results every run. I also want to try a SOG run at some point to see how that goes would be awesome to have 24 plants in 1 gallon pots in my 5x5.

I just need to convince Herbies to give me 30 seeds of one strain haha (some spairs so I can be sure to get 24)

Morning @Moony, I basically do all of that. I always up pot, unless I'm testing myself. One of the outdoor DSD autos, in a 7 in soil, I began the seedling right in the 7! I wanted to see if I had the watering skills to fill that pot starting in the worst possible way. And Indeed I did. But yes, of course up potting, I don't do it twice though, to me that's an unnecessary extra step you don't need if your watering game is in place.

Yeah, you can't really make a flat canopy in a 3x3 or any other space without LST, supercropping, and any other tricks you may have up your sleeve. I do some of all of that.

I think you will be overfilling your 5x5 with 5 plants in 5s. I've done it. It's too much. Especially if you're in coco. Just my opinion.

Anyway, with tricks in mind, here's what I was referring to yesterday in terms of bringing branches UP to the canopy.

Yesterday, the branch in question, a second node branch, was long and about three inches below the canopy. But it stuck out beyond the canopy, so I was considering keeping it. Then, yesterday, in a "this is so obvious I didn't think of it" moment, I realized that cola had enough stem to join the party if she had a little help. So here's the help.

This is her support. All it is is her sitting on top of a bamboo shoot and tied to it so she stays up.

up support.jpg

• Jon
• Feb 1, 2022

And this is a side shot of where she now resides after lifting her up.

up support 2.jpg

• Jon
• Feb 1, 2022

And here, as you see, we have a new totally legit bud added to our canopy at the perfect height. She's the one at 3 o'clock.

up support 3.jpg

• Jon
• Feb 1, 2022

So like I said yesterday, I'm sure a lot of people do this, I just never thought of it for whatever reason. I was focused on do I keep it or not, will it produce down there or not, etc...

Simple things.

 

[Moony]

I do keep going back and forth on the 5th plant lol. The problem is I've already planted it. I thought about making her a mother but I don't have the space. The only other option is to throw away a perfectly viable plant or grab a 70cmX70cmX160cm tent and just use my TS1000 and put 1 plant in it. Tbh I do need a small tent just for germination. It's just more cost though I'll have a good few week to decide at least lol.

 

[Moony]

Also good morning to you too! Hehe

 

[Jon]

I do keep going back and forth on the 5th plant lol. The problem is I've already planted it. I thought about making her a mother but I don't have the space. The only other option is to throw away a perfectly viable plant or grab a 70cmX70cmX160cm tent and just use my TS1000 and put 1 plant in it. Tbh I do need a small tent just for germination. It's just more cost though I'll have a good few week to decide at least lol.

Well, there's nothing wrong with planting five and picking the four best after three or four weeks. So you trash one seedling. Big deal. Pick the four best phenos and go with them is what I would do.

 

[Moony]

Well, there's nothing wrong with planting five and picking the four best after three or four weeks. So you trash one seedling. Big deal. Pick the four best phenos and go with them is what I would do.

I'll see in a few week lol. I'm in 7 gallon cloth pots too for their final home just so you know lol.

 

[Azimuth]

Tbh I do need a small tent just for germination. It's just more cost though

Doesn't have to be a lot more though. Just use a cardboard box with a CFL light on a timer. Keep it small with minimal nutes and cooler temps to keep it in veg while you flower the others and come back to it when you have room.

A bit ghetto, but you can pretend it's just temporary.

 

[Jon]

Cocotown
Strawberry Lemonade (again)
Flower Day 60

Thought today we could check out some of the fan leaf action this plant has going on. Very interesting fade and colors going on. Earthy.

The smell of this plant is extremely intense. Very lemon, very citrus, very DANK, and I have a feeling the sweet, cotton candy-esque smell is going to become a bit of strawberry odor. I hope.

So here's four shots to not so much show buds but the leaves around them. Enjoy. And tell this girl to hurry up.

 

[Bill284]

Cocotown
Strawberry Lemonade (again)
Flower Day 60

Thought today we could check out some of the fan leaf action this plant has going on. Very interesting fade and colors going on. Earthy.

The smell of this plant is extremely intense. Very lemon, very citrus, very DANK, and I have a feeling the sweet, cotton candy-esque smell is going to become a bit of strawberry odor. I hope.

So here's four shots to not so much show buds but the leaves around them. Enjoy. And tell this girl to hurry up.

I love this stage
So many wonderful colors.
It's so nice to see big fans right up to the end.
Enjoy my friend.
Nice work.

Stay safe
Bill

 

[Jon]

I love this stage
So many wonderful colors.
It's so nice to see big fans right up to the end.
Enjoy my friend.
Nice work.

Stay safe
Bill

Thanks Bill. Yeah, it took me a few grows to NOT remove too many fans. You need them. I used to overly defol, especially the big fans. Bad move. This is much better.

 

[Moony]

Doesn't have to be a lot more though. Just use a cardboard box with a CFL light on a timer. Keep it small with minimal nutes and cooler temps to keep it in veg while you flower the others and come back to it when you have room.

A bit ghetto, but you can pretend it's just temporary.

Hehe well I already have 3 tents. 2 - 4x4 and a 5x5. But I'd like to replace one 4x4 with a much smaller tent to use as a a germ tent and maybe for 1 plant with minimal equipment.

 

[Moony]

Cocotown
Strawberry Lemonade (again)
Flower Day 60

Thought today we could check out some of the fan leaf action this plant has going on. Very interesting fade and colors going on. Earthy.

The smell of this plant is extremely intense. Very lemon, very citrus, very DANK, and I have a feeling the sweet, cotton candy-esque smell is going to become a bit of strawberry odor. I hope.

So here's four shots to not so much show buds but the leaves around them. Enjoy. And tell this girl to hurry up.

That's some really pretty weed right there Jon. Love the autumnal colours

 

[Jon]

Strawberry Lemonade
Flower Day 61

And on we go. And on. And on. I love this part and hope it goes on forever. You can see clearly in the bud pictures below where she's STILL sprouting new growth and getting fatter. These buds are already dense as hell, I can't even imagine how they're still fattening up. But indeed, by observation, water consumption, and trichomes, this girl still has days and days to go yet. Maybe a whole week. The trichome window seems to be staying open an especially long time with this one. I still can't find an amber on her, at least not a legit amber. I still see many clear trichomes. Amazing. Take your time, girl, fill those with that sweet oil.

So today I turned off the reds for the bud pictures, so this is what the buds *actually* look like without all the excess reds and such. There's three bud shots and four trichome pictures. Sick of looking at this dumb plant yet? I'm not. Lol.