Jon's First Outdoor Grow: Sugar Breath Photoperiod & Strawberry Banana Autoflower

[Jon]

By now I've started to dial back the nitrogen and down to micro dose tword the end.
Watch and use your knowledge of what stage she is in and feed accordingly.
Use the schedule as a guide but eventually you will able to see where they are and what they are eating.


Stay safe
Bill

Thanks. I think I have one more week or maybe a week and a half of aggressive feeding before we begin to tail off per the chart and stop considering upping anything...that's how it looks to me. We'll try it and see.

 

[InTheShed]

I think I heard you say once you can do 10 ounces in a day, is that right?

Not by myself! Whoever is home on chop day has to help. No Little Red Hen scenarios in my house.

 

[Jon]

CJS Apple Blossom
Veg Day 50

A couple things of note about the girl today. I topped the two third node branches on opposite sides of the plant that are definitely making the canopy and are only an inch or a bit more below right now. I also deemed the branch with our little break fixed enough to gently begin to even her out with the other four, as she was shooting up a bit. No death here. Lastly, you can see that the branches I supercropped, those little thin stem ones up top, are not only beginning to grow out into real branches but are also beginning to develop little strong knots at the bend site on the stem (see closeup in last picture).

Have a great week everyone. Birds are in the playoffs!!

 

[Azimuth]

Nice!

 

[cjsbabygirl313]

CJS Apple Blossom
Veg Day 50

A couple things of note about the girl today. I topped the two third node branches on opposite sides of the plant that are definitely making the canopy and are only an inch or a bit more below right now. I also deemed the branch with our little break fixed enough to gently begin to even her out with the other four, as she was shooting up a bit. No death here. Lastly, you can see that the branches I supercropped, those little thin stem ones up top, are not only beginning to grow out into real branches but are also beginning to develop little strong knots at the bend site on the stem (see closeup in last picture).

Have a great week everyone. Birds are in the playoffs!!

Looks amazing!! You’ll have to show me how to do all this one day in person *lol*

 

[Jon]

Looks amazing!! You’ll have to show me how to do all this one day in person *lol*

Girl you know I'll do whatever for you, but truth be told, I'm no special sauce on training by a long shot, and I am learning how to do this in real time as you watch the plant grow, just as you are. If it weren't for the small army I have helping me you'd never be looking at this. You are every bit as capable of doing this or some version you like of training right now if that's what you want to do. It's far easier than it may appear, and you are racking up the base information very quickly (nice learning curve trajectory, btw). You may notice I ask a ton of questions. That's not just cuz I'm curious, it's also cuz I really don't know for sure what I'm doing. I'll say I'm not exactly flying blind, even left to my own devices, but that's about all I'll say. Lol. But all that said, I will be visiting you and the hubby when I go back to Pa in the spring hopefully, so maybe we'll get the chance to do that.

 

[Jon]

Yield Report
Dos Si Dos 1, 2, 3

Well, so DSD 1 was the one with the big indica buds - the terrible plant picture I entered in POTM last month. That was likely about a 4 or 4 1/2 ouncer, but I lost half of her to mold. 2 ounces. Ugh. Then we had DSD 2. This one got brushed up against the Strawberry Banana outdoor that went hermie when they were in their afternoon spot on the lennai. I had them arranged in a certain order when I did that, and DSD 2 was often right next to that plant. As a result, all the lower branches - again, half the damn plant again, was SEEDY. I was very happy when I got to the branches that didn't stick out far enough to hit that damn pollen factory, but still, only 2 ounces saved. So the yield from DSD 1 and DSD 2 was only 4 ounces combined. Disappointing for sure, cuz they were big and beautiful and I'd be sitting on a half pound from the two of them. Comme ci, comme ca.

We did do better on DSD 3. That was the one of the three that had zero mold or bud rot, and zero seeds. She had very little flarf. It was also the one of the three that was in a 5, versus the two that got compromised in 7s (double ugh - had to be the big ones, lol). So while she wasn't as big as the 7s, she did yield quite well for a 5. About 3 1/2 ounces of buds like I trim them. 100 grams total = about 3.6 ounces.

The quality on all three is very high. I showed the pics of the three phenos, so you guys have seen the buds. These pictures are just of DSD 3 for yield photos. So a total of 7 1/2 ounces of very high quality, reasonably well trimmed Dos Si Dos that smells like a dream and gets you very high. I'll take it. Again, mitigating loss is part of this game, especially when you have 19 plants in a grow. I'm not stressing it.

So here's the pictures, call it Monday bud porn if you're dank horny.

1. Yield of the jarred buds - 89 grams.
2. Yield of the good buds too small to trim, ie, Littles, which I smoke so as to not go into the jars, but it counts, and I probably smoked twice this already. It's 9 grams, we'll call it 11 (I smoked 2 grams of it this morning already, lol) so that the yield is an even 100 grams instead of 98. I'm still selling myself short, but we'll err on the side of reality not hyperbole.
3. Zoom on the bowl of buds. I'm really into these pictures right now. The GZ one was better, but this isn't too bad.
4. Zoom on the bowl of Littles, just to show they're legit little densies, and not flarf.
5. Closeup of DSD 3 bud.

Enjoy!!

 

[Jon]

CJS Apple Blossom
Veg Day 51
Further Training

Now we're starting to have fun. She's starting to look something like an intentional canopy. Lol. I'm trying for fewer bud sites that are far more spread out than the way I trained the tent girls that just harvested in the other journal. Also taking more lower growth, trying to be more aggressive in that regard. Hopefully I'll end up with around 20-30 larger buds that are closer to top to bottom legit instead of 50-60 tops/middles/flarf as in the tent harvest. So today I tied a few more branches down and began the process of forming the actual canopy. The pictures show her post training session and post major league leaf tucking session. So far I've taken a total of two leaves from this plant. Small ones. I prefer to tuck my butt off until I have to trim leaves. There's an overhead closeup of the middle to show today's training and a shot from the side to show our fledgling canopy beginning to take shape.

EDIT: It occurs to me that most people are probably unfamiliar with this strain. I was. I was searching for apple smelling and/or tasting strains, and I came across it. Here's what allbud says about it:

Apple Blossom Marijuana Strain​

Hybrid - 50% Sativa /50% Indica​

THC: 26% - 30%​

Apple Blossom is an evenly balanced hybrid strain (50% indica/50% sativa) created through crossing the tasty Blueberry Muffin X Dream Queen strains. Named for its amazing aroma and flavor, Apple Blossom is a great choice for any classic hybrid lover who needs a little extra power behind their medicine. Like its name suggests, Apple Blossom has a super fragrant flowery apple aroma with just a touch of sour citrus and lemon. The flavor is just as delicious, with a sweet yet sour apple overtone accented by a touch of lemon and rich spicy flowers. The Apple Blossom high will hit you almost as soon as you exhale, launching its way into your mind before slowly working its way throughout your body. You'll find your mental state brightened with lifted energy and a touch of euphoria that instantly erases any negative or racing thoughts. A relaxing body high accompanies this heady state, keeping you settled down and tethered to the earth below. Combined with its high 26-30% average THC level, these effects make Apple Blossom the perfect choice for treating chronic fatigue, appetite loss or nausea, chronic stress, depression and chronic pain. This bud has flat oversized oval-shaped minty green nugs with dark purple leaves, thin orange hairs and golden amber crystal trichomes.

A little FYI for those who don't know the strain. I'm all excited about it. But I always am about every new strain I grow. Lol.

 

[StoneOtter]

CJS Apple Blossom
Veg Day 51
Further Training

Now we're starting to have fun. She's starting to look something like an intentional canopy. Lol. I'm trying for fewer bud sites that are far more spread out than the way I trained the tent girls that just harvested in the other journal. Also taking more lower growth, trying to be more aggressive in that regard. Hopefully I'll end up with around 20-30 larger buds that are closer to top to bottom legit instead of 50-60 tops/middles/flarf as in the tent harvest. So today I tied a few more branches down and began the process of forming the actual canopy. The pictures show her post training session and post major league leaf tucking session. So far I've taken a total of two leaves from this plant. Small ones. I prefer to tuck my butt off until I have to trim leaves. There's an overhead closeup of the middle to show today's training and a shot from the side to show our fledgling canopy beginning to take shape.

Beautiful canopy there brother!

 

[Jon]

Beautiful canopy there brother!

Thanks Otter, we're working on it. Got a ways to go. I'm in no hurry to flip her. She's loving the Prescription Blend nutes, I'll tell you that. GREAT first time with them so far. I'm super impressed. Especially now that I finally figured out how to mix a batch quickly. They look different than what we're used to, most companies don't use the flexible filled bags with real small openings and long pipettes approach, and it took me a feed or three to get used to using the pipettes as the actual measuring device. But now I can fly through it. I hope she remains as strong as she is now, this plant is amazing so far. Loves me some Humboldt genetics.

 

[Jon]

Cocotown
Dos Si Dos Fast Flowering Photo
Flower Day 38

We focused on each of the other two coco girls the last couple days, so today we'll do the Dos Si Dos Fast Flowering photo. Another F1. So far no seeds or signs of seeds. Despite the paranoia I now have about dark pistils, lol. I've learned after now growing three of these Fast Flowering photos, the F1s, that they are rather unpredictable. Too much so for me to grow them again. A couple were freebies and I thought I would try them. The Strawberry Banana photo that went hermie was one of these. Anyway, also after talking with @Emilya I understand why they are unstable by nature. All of that = fast flowering experiment over. The other thing is, fast flowering? What crap. You can clearly see in the pictures that this plant is visibly taking longer to bud out than the other two. She's still almost all white. Her buds don't really look like buds yet, as the other two do. She will definitely NOT be done in 7 days , which would be the 45 they claim. I think she'll be the last to harvest based on comparing the buds on all three plants right now. You tell me.

So here's some more Monday bud porn....

1. This is the best picture I could get of the whole plant, cuz I have to use one hand to pull Strawberry Lemonade branches out of the shot, which compromises my angles by a ton....this is enough of her though for you to get the idea of the whole plant I think. Just extrapolate the rest.
2, Example of lowest, flarfiest buds on the plant.
3. Example of mid-level bud #1.
4. Example of mid-level bud #2.
5. Upper buds
6. Random bud top

 

[cjsbabygirl313]

CJS Apple Blossom
Veg Day 51
Further Training

Now we're starting to have fun. She's starting to look something like an intentional canopy. Lol. I'm trying for fewer bud sites that are far more spread out than the way I trained the tent girls that just harvested in the other journal. Also taking more lower growth, trying to be more aggressive in that regard. Hopefully I'll end up with around 20-30 larger buds that are closer to top to bottom legit instead of 50-60 tops/middles/flarf as in the tent harvest. So today I tied a few more branches down and began the process of forming the actual canopy. The pictures show her post training session and post major league leaf tucking session. So far I've taken a total of two leaves from this plant. Small ones. I prefer to tuck my butt off until I have to trim leaves. There's an overhead closeup of the middle to show today's training and a shot from the side to show our fledgling canopy beginning to take shape.

EDIT: It occurs to me that most people are probably unfamiliar with this strain. I was. I was searching for apple smelling and/or tasting strains, and I came across it. Here's what allbud says about it:

Apple Blossom Marijuana Strain​

Hybrid - 50% Sativa /50% Indica​

THC: 26% - 30%​

Apple Blossom is an evenly balanced hybrid strain (50% indica/50% sativa) created through crossing the tasty Blueberry Muffin X Dream Queen strains. Named for its amazing aroma and flavor, Apple Blossom is a great choice for any classic hybrid lover who needs a little extra power behind their medicine. Like its name suggests, Apple Blossom has a super fragrant flowery apple aroma with just a touch of sour citrus and lemon. The flavor is just as delicious, with a sweet yet sour apple overtone accented by a touch of lemon and rich spicy flowers. The Apple Blossom high will hit you almost as soon as you exhale, launching its way into your mind before slowly working its way throughout your body. You'll find your mental state brightened with lifted energy and a touch of euphoria that instantly erases any negative or racing thoughts. A relaxing body high accompanies this heady state, keeping you settled down and tethered to the earth below. Combined with its high 26-30% average THC level, these effects make Apple Blossom the perfect choice for treating chronic fatigue, appetite loss or nausea, chronic stress, depression and chronic pain. This bud has flat oversized oval-shaped minty green nugs with dark purple leaves, thin orange hairs and golden amber crystal trichomes.

A little FYI for those who don't know the strain. I'm all excited about it. But I always am about every new strain I grow. Lol.

Wow! Looks gorgeous - very well done!!

 

[cjsbabygirl313]

Yield Report
Dos Si Dos 1, 2, 3

Well, so DSD 1 was the one with the big indica buds - the terrible plant picture I entered in POTM last month. That was likely about a 4 or 4 1/2 ouncer, but I lost half of her to mold. 2 ounces. Ugh. Then we had DSD 2. This one got brushed up against the Strawberry Banana outdoor that went hermie when they were in their afternoon spot on the lennai. I had them arranged in a certain order when I did that, and DSD 2 was often right next to that plant. As a result, all the lower branches - again, half the damn plant again, was SEEDY. I was very happy when I got to the branches that didn't stick out far enough to hit that damn pollen factory, but still, only 2 ounces saved. So the yield from DSD 1 and DSD 2 was only 4 ounces combined. Disappointing for sure, cuz they were big and beautiful and I'd be sitting on a half pound from the two of them. Comme ci, comme ca.

We did do better on DSD 3. That was the one of the three that had zero mold or bud rot, and zero seeds. She had very little flarf. It was also the one of the three that was in a 5, versus the two that got compromised in 7s (double ugh - had to be the big ones, lol). So while she wasn't as big as the 7s, she did yield quite well for a 5. About 3 1/2 ounces of buds like I trim them. 100 grams total = about 3.6 ounces.

The quality on all three is very high. I showed the pics of the three phenos, so you guys have seen the buds. These pictures are just of DSD 3 for yield photos. So a total of 7 1/2 ounces of very high quality, reasonably well trimmed Dos Si Dos that smells like a dream and gets you very high. I'll take it. Again, mitigating loss is part of this game, especially when you have 19 plants in a grow. I'm not stressing it.

So here's the pictures, call it Monday bud porn if you're dank horny.

1. Yield of the jarred buds - 89 grams.
2. Yield of the good buds too small to trim, ie, Littles, which I smoke so as to not go into the jars, but it counts, and I probably smoked twice this already. It's 9 grams, we'll call it 11 (I smoked 2 grams of it this morning already, lol) so that the yield is an even 100 grams instead of 98. I'm still selling myself short, but we'll err on the side of reality not hyperbole.
3. Zoom on the bowl of buds. I'm really into these pictures right now. The GZ one was better, but this isn't too bad.
4. Zoom on the bowl of Littles, just to show they're legit little densies, and not flarf.
5. Closeup of DSD 3 bud.

Enjoy!!

Ounces of yumminess!

 

[Jon]

Training Question
Couple tags if you guys don't mind @Stunger, @InTheShed, @Bill284, @Rexer, @StoneOtter, @Grand Daddy Black, @Emilya, @Tokin Roll, @Virgin Ground

I'm wondering if you guys believe that "balance" in terms of training out the plant is necessary or desirable. What I mean by balance is this - you know how the branches come in sets of two at the nodes and go out 90 degrees to each other as each node goes up? Well, in terms of my canopy, I have two 2nd node branches and two 3rd node branches, obviously, only on one side of the plant those two are definitely making the canopy and are basically already there, whereas on the other side the corresponding branches are short and only halfway up. I hope that is a clear enough explanation.

So what I'm wondering is about taking those two shorter branches but not the longer two that are making the canopy. Basically then I'd be taking node 2 and 3 only on one side of the plant and not the other. I know I'm probably overthinking this, but in terms of support later on or evening out a nice round or square canopy (depending on if I bud her out outdoors or leave her in the tent which I'm considering to give the 420h a full shot on a photo, which I haven't done with it yet), would this "putting the plant out of balance" negatively affect me down the line? I see many of your guys' plants and it seems this is a minimal concern, but I just wanted to ask.

While I'm at it, do any of you guys have an opinion on whether I should bud her outdoors or leave her in the tent? Take into consideration that in the tent the stealth factor is non-existent, whereas outdoors it is not, and that I have pushed that stealth factor with the first round of outdoors about as far as I dare. The whole outdoor, out back rigs are gone at this point and I have no plants outside. That said, it would only be this one plant, and that makes the stealth issue minimal. So I really could go either way. But I'm leaning 3 x 3/420h.

Also, Stunger, thanks for the clarity on your training stuff you posted as promised, that was awesome. I've been peppering you lately, hope you don't mind.

Thanks guys, as always. And yes, GDB, you got tagged too.

EDIT: @FelipeBlu, I meant to tag you on this too, sorry.

 

[StoneOtter]

Always thinking you are! Awesome! I can't say I've looked at it that way. I look at the plant and see where she is. Then decide what needs to be done. A theme hasn't shown itself to me yet. That's me, I'm slow figuring things out that aren't an emergency so I may have just not looked. Now I have to watch your question get answered. Cool beans!

 

[Azimuth]

Training Question
Couple tags if you guys don't mind @Stunger, @InTheShed, @Bill284, @Rexer, @StoneOtter, @Grand Daddy Black, @Emilya, @Tokin Roll, @Virgin Ground

I'm wondering if you guys believe that "balance" in terms of training out the plant is necessary or desirable. What I mean by balance is this - you know how the branches come in sets of two at the nodes and go out 90 degrees to each other as each node goes up? Well, in terms of my canopy, I have two 2nd node branches and two 3rd node branches, obviously, only on one side of the plant those two are definitely making the canopy and are basically already there, whereas on the other side the corresponding branches are short and only halfway up. I hope that is a clear enough explanation.

So what I'm wondering is about taking those two shorter branches but not the longer two that are making the canopy. Basically then I'd be taking node 2 and 3 only on one side of the plant and not the other. I know I'm probably overthinking this, but in terms of support later on or evening out a nice round or square canopy (depending on if I bud her out outdoors or leave her in the tent which I'm considering to give the 420h a full shot on a photo, which I haven't done with it yet), would this "putting the plant out of balance" negatively affect me down the line? I see many of your guys' plants and it seems this is a minimal concern, but I just wanted to ask.

While I'm at it, do any of you guys have an opinion on whether I should bud her outdoors or leave her in the tent? Take into consideration that in the tent the stealth factor is non-existent, whereas outdoors it is not, and that I have pushed that stealth factor with the first round of outdoors about as far as I dare. The whole outdoor, out back rigs are gone at this point and I have no plants outside. That said, it would only be this one plant, and that makes the stealth issue minimal. So I really could go either way. But I'm leaning 3 x 3/420h.

Also, Stunger, thanks for the clarity on your training stuff you posted as promised, that was awesome. I've been peppering you lately, hope you don't mind.

Thanks guys, as always. And yes, GDB, you got tagged too.

EDIT: @FelipeBlu, I meant to tag you on this too, sorry.

Keeping an even canopy is more about spreading the hormones equally amongst the buds. The plant is constantly trying to have one or two buds be dominant and those will be the tallest and largest. Buy by training the plant to keep everything relatively equal in height the hormones go to each bud site also relatively equally.

If you don't slow the taller ones down by some technique (maybe tie them lower than the others so the laggards catchup) or topping them, supercropping, etc., then the shorter ones will never produce the size of buds that the taller ones do.

 

[Jon]

Cocotown
Dos Si Dos Fast Flowering Photo
Flower Day 38

We focused on each of the other two coco girls the last couple days, so today we'll do the Dos Si Dos Fast Flowering photo. Another F1. So far no seeds or signs of seeds. Despite the paranoia I now have about dark pistils, lol. I've learned after now growing three of these Fast Flowering photos, the F1s, that they are rather unpredictable. Too much so for me to grow them again. A couple were freebies and I thought I would try them. The Strawberry Banana photo that went hermie was one of these. Anyway, also after talking with @Emilya I understand why they are unstable by nature. All of that = fast flowering experiment over. The other thing is, fast flowering? What crap. You can clearly see in the pictures that this plant is visibly taking longer to bud out than the other two. She's still almost all white. Her buds don't really look like buds yet, as the other two do. She will definitely NOT be done in 7 days , which would be the 45 they claim. I think she'll be the last to harvest based on comparing the buds on all three plants right now. You tell me.

So here's some more Monday bud porn....

1. This is the best picture I could get of the whole plant, cuz I have to use one hand to pull Strawberry Lemonade branches out of the shot, which compromises my angles by a ton....this is enough of her though for you to get the idea of the whole plant I think. Just extrapolate the rest.
2, Example of lowest, flarfiest buds on the plant.
3. Example of mid-level bud #1.
4. Example of mid-level bud #2.
5. Upper buds
6. Random bud top

Good morning @Bill284, I have a morning question for you in our continuing coffee question series....

I get that you are basically going to tell me to feed the crap out of these girls for the rest of the grow as you have the entire grow, and that's great, I'm totally cool with that. We have the FF system as our guide anyway.

I'm thinking about Terpinator and molasses. Why CAN'T I use molasses with coco? It's not the same thing as hydro. I can't find a reason it would hurt, please tell me what I'm missing here if anything. I haven't used it yet but would like to. Regarding Terpinator, check the pictures please. These are the labels of the Terpinator and the Bembe from the FF line. The Bembe gets fed an entire tbsp/gallon for the rest of the grow - FF includes it every week til the end. Terpinator is either 1 or 2 tbsp./gallon. I have come to the conclusion that Bembe is FF's version of Terpinator, approximately. They both seem to be aimed at accomplishing the same goal. So considering these labels, how do you feel about adding the Terpinator on top of the Bembe? When the chart began the Bembe I discontinued the Terpinator, as I thought it was duplicitous. But I'm not sure, thus this, lol. As you see, both are basically a K additive, and they're basically the same concentration of it. So would "doubling this up" be too much K?

Decent Tuesday morning question?

 

[Jon]

Keeping an even canopy is more about spreading the hormones equally amongst the buds. The plant is constantly trying to have one or two buds be dominant and those will be the tallest and largest. Buy by training the plant to keep everything relatively equal in height the hormones go to each bud site also relatively equally.

If you don't slow the taller ones down by some technique (maybe tie them lower than the others so the laggards catchup) or topping them, supercropping, etc., then the shorter ones will never produce the size of buds that the taller ones do.

Thanks @Azimuth, didn't mean to forget you on the tags. I know what you're saying, this is the whole idea of creating a canopy. To your response in regard to my question, in terms of spreading the hormones equally amongst the buds, do you think it makes a difference if that hormone "spread" is "balanced," per my question on the nodes? Or do you think it's just about evening out the tops and light, and it doesn't matter where on the plant those tops come from? See what I mean?

 

[Azimuth]

Thanks @Azimuth, didn't mean to forget you on the tags. I know what you're saying, this is the whole idea of creating a canopy. To your response in regard to my question, in terms of spreading the hormones equally amongst the buds, do you think it makes a difference if that hormone "spread" is "balanced," per my question on the nodes? Or do you think it's just about evening out the tops and light, and it doesn't matter where on the plant those tops come from? See what I mean?

The plant is going to want to revert back to a single dominant leader. If you top the plant and get rid of the original main, one of the lower stems is going to try to become that dominant one. Wherever it is on the plant. So, if you have one or more leads that are taller than the others and don't do anything to bring them even with the lower, slower growing ones, the taller ones are where the plant is going to send the majority of the growth and flowering hormones to, leaving the others back.

That's why a lot of growers cut off lower shoots after stretch. They're never going to amount to much, but will use up some of the hormones that could be going to those buds that will produce.

In your case, the side with the shorter stems will act similar to the lower stems. Not as much since they'll be getting their fair share of light, but you'll still likely notice the difference.

Can you supercrop the taller ones to slow them down a bit and let the others catch up?

 

[Jon]

The plant is going to want to revert back to a single dominant leader. If you top the plant and get rid of the original main, one of the lower stems is going to try to become that dominant one. Wherever it is on the plant. So, if you have one or more leads that are taller than the others and don't do anything to bring them even with the lower, slower growing ones, the taller ones are where the plant is going to send the majority of the growth and flowering hormones to, leaving the others back.

That's why a lot of growers cut off lower shoots after stretch. They're never going to amount to much, but will use up some of the hormones that could be going to those buds that will produce.

In your case, the side with the shorter stems will act similar to the lower stems. Not as much since they'll be getting their fair share of light, but you'll still likely notice the difference.

Can you supercrop the taller ones to slow them down a bit and let the others catch up?

Check this picture. I already have a real flat canopy, no supercropping or anything else is required. This should clarify. This is from just now. I'm referring to the branch that sits at 6 o'clock and one other like it.



Here's a side shot that shows you the canopy is just fine and also shows you the two lower branches I'm talking about taking.