Jon's First Outdoor Grow: Sugar Breath Photoperiod & Strawberry Banana Autoflower

[Jon]

First of all, let me get on you a bit for your usage of the phrase cal/mag deficiency. These are two different issues and you will usually have either a calcium deficiency or a magnesium deficiency.

Molasses has very little nutrient in it that might cause a lockout. Not only that, but one of the nutrients that it does have is magnesium. It does not make sense to me that adding magnesium could cause a magnesium lockout, or calcium either for that matter. And you talk about getting your microbes up to speed, even though you are aggressively feeding them the perfect sugar to keep them going, even if the plant had somehow given up on them or the sohum ran out of minerals.

So here we are again, somewhere between assumptions and bro science. I don't believe a flush is your answer. I would like to see some pictures specifically of the symptoms you are seeing, but I think you have enough clues here to get to a better answer than flushing. Flushing is to clear a problem, salt or lockout, but you haven't convinced me that molasses could cause a lockout. As you said, it will also wash away vital nutrients... is it worth that risk on a theory?

You mentioned that the sohum is keeping up with the photos, but it is your autos having the problem. Fast growing autos. hmmm. Could it be that since they are growing so aggressively that they actually are using/needing more calcium or magnesium than their slower growing photo cousins? I think this is much more likely than the lockout you have convinced yourself that you are having. You are growing quite aggressively too, hitting them with massive light and additional inputs, you speak of phenomenal lift and transpiration... is it not possible that you are simply looking at a simple deficiency and that more Ca or Mg could solve it? I would up my calmag to maximum dosage and I would consider a foliar of epsom for even more Mg to look for a resolution to this, before I would flush.

Ok, all that is fair enough, and thanks. I considered that it might just be that and simply adding calmag would do it. Understood about one or the other and being in between assumption and bro science. But we seem to agree that the base problem may lie in the fast growing autos sucking the Sohum dry of certain nutes perhaps faster than photos, and if that were not the case I wouldn't have any deficiencies. So the reason for the action we seem to agree on. It's the action where you differ, and of course I will err on the side of caution. However, I do like the top dressing with Geo/bokashi/frass, cuz no way can that hurt and can potentially only help - they'd be active by fattening up time, last two weeks. I'll hit them with one more cal mag (it isn't like I haven't given them any...) and not flush and see if it gets worse or stays/improves, and I'll top dress a half dose of Bloom nutes with bokashi and frass. Maybe help replace some of what has been drained.

Does that make sense based on what you said?

 

[Jon]

Hey Jon. Bit of advice I stole from another grow video I watched lol. If you need to water till run off but don't want the girls to sip it back. raise your ladies up to allow drainage using golf balls or small bouncy balls rubber balls etc. Stick them in your tray and put the pot ontop allows draining and airflow without them being able to suck it back up .

Just a tip from the world of growing hehe, which I stole lol...

Thanks Moon. I have a million actual risers, and plenty of stuff for that purpose that beats the crap out of golf balls, lol. But I appreciate it. I just put them up on real risers.

 

[Jon]

In addition to Emilya's note I want to mention a question. Will geoflora be able to catch up to the demand of a complete flush? There's going to be stripped rootzone needing nutrients and I'm not sure geoflora is fast acting enough to really help rebound it back to good health. What do you think?

I think that was one of my primary concerns and I think you're pretty much right. I propose the effectiveness would be relative to the time the plant has left. I'm thinking she's a month out. Also that the Geo will take 10 days or so to "catch up." That leaves three weeks for it to work it's magic. That was sort of my thinking. So to your point, if I flush, I compound the Geo's work, cuz it isn't as if the Sohum was NOTHING left, it still has plenty of most. I think this plant just drained either the cal or mag (I think it's mag - red spots only). If I don't flush I keep what's in there and just add more microbes basically. So the Geo is more a supplement, and the Geo guys themselves told me it can be used as such with bagged living soils, I just hadn't seen the potential need for it anywhere yet.

Thoughts on that?

And thank you of course!

 

[Jon]

Even though I’m no expert like Emilya, I agree with the approach of not using a sledge hammer to drive a needle through fabric

You may not be an expert, but you have a way of boiling down the complex to a very simple and easy to understand colloquialism that makes the point just as effectively. I get it. You are all saying the same thing in different ways. Don't be so radical, you're already being radical enough, just err on the side of caution. And it's appreciated, that's exactly why I tossed it out there. Everyone who comments here knows any question I ask, even if it's a targeted one with a tag, is open game. I take all comers. Lol. Thanks!

 

[cjsbabygirl313]

You may not be an expert, but you have a way of boiling down the complex to a very simple and easy to understand colloquialism that makes the point just as effectively. I get it. You are all saying the same thing in different ways. Don't be so radical, you're already being radical enough, just err on the side of caution. And it's appreciated, that's exactly why I tossed it out there. Everyone who comments here knows any question I ask, even if it's a targeted one with a tag, is open game. I take all comers. Lol. Thanks!

Yup, I believe in K.I.S.S. whenever possible!

 

[Emilya Green]

Ok, all that is fair enough, and thanks. I considered that it might just be that and simply adding calmag would do it. Understood about one or the other and being in between assumption and bro science. But we seem to agree that the base problem may lie in the fast growing autos sucking the Sohum dry of certain nutes perhaps faster than photos, and if that were not the case I wouldn't have any deficiencies. So the reason for the action we seem to agree on. It's the action where you differ, and of course I will err on the side of caution. However, I do like the top dressing with Geo/bokashi/frass, cuz no way can that hurt and can potentially only help - they'd be active by fattening up time, last two weeks. I'll hit them with one more cal mag (it isn't like I haven't given them any...) and not flush and see if it gets worse or stays/improves, and I'll top dress a half dose of Bloom nutes with bokashi and frass. Maybe help replace some of what has been drained.

Does that make sense based on what you said?

Again, check that assumption. There are a whole lot of minerals in that sohum, and as long as you are not trying to grow 7 gallon plants in 3 gallon containers, you are not going to suck that soil dry of nutrients in 3 grows... certainly not in one. You could be just not able to keep up with the day to day demand with the amount of sohum you put in the bottom of your containers and you might consider when growing autos to use 1/2 container of sohum instead of 1/3, just to get more microbes involved in more enriched soil, so that the plant is not balancing on the edge when the feeding needs get heavy.

Regarding the Geoflora, I think I would consider giving a full dose to the struggling plants, just to assure that there is enough raw nutrient and gobs of microbes rushing in to help. If all it is, is the sohum simply struggling to keep up, this full load will be very well received... and its not like anything will be wasted if the plant can't use it all right then, and that raw content and the microbes will end up amending the sohum here at the end.

 

[Jon]

Again, check that assumption. There are a whole lot of minerals in that sohum, and as long as you are not trying to grow 7 gallon plants in 3 gallon containers, you are not going to suck that soil dry of nutrients in 3 grows... certainly not in one. You could be just not able to keep up with the day to day demand with the amount of sohum you put in the bottom of your containers and you might consider when growing autos to use 1/2 container of sohum instead of 1/3, just to get more microbes involved in more enriched soil, so that the plant is not balancing on the edge when the feeding needs get heavy.

Regarding the Geoflora, I think I would consider giving a full dose to the struggling plants, just to assure that there is enough raw nutrient and gobs of microbes rushing in to help. If all it is, is the sohum simply struggling to keep up, this full load will be very well received... and its not like anything will be wasted if the plant can't use it all right then, and that raw content and the microbes will end up amending the sohum here at the end.

Gotcha. Ok, well I realize the Sohum still has plenty of stuff in it, and I also realize adding the Geo will do as you say. So I'm happy to go full dose if that is your call. No problem. And my autos do have half Sohum in the bottom. The top half is 50/50 Sohum/FF. But maybe in the future to go to 2/3 Sohum in the bottom and 1/3 of the blend up top instead, per your idea. That probably would be wise, at least with the autos. The Slurricane, in Sohum, never needed a thing.

 

[Emilya Green]

Regarding the deficiency, lets narrow it down to either Ca or Mg. Calcium is non mobile in the plant, so the plant cant use storehouses in the bottom leaves to supply what is needed in the active top growth. A calcium deficiency always appears in the upper third of the plant, typically in the sun leaves right below the buds.

Magnesium however, is semi mobile in the plant. It often times starts in the lowest fan leaves and then starts to show up as damage in the middle of the plant. Magnesium almost never shows up first in the upper leaves.

Then, knowing this, you would be able to supplement correctly. If it looks like magnesium, a foliar of epsom will help. If its is calcium, a bit of bone meal or oyster shell flour can help, once the microbes break it down, but this is going to be hard to instantly fix without something readily available, such as in calmag.

 

[Moony]

@Emilya do you think you could take a look at my ladies in a bit. I've a tiny bit of yellowing at the tips of my leaves. I've treated it as an over feed but I'd love it if you could have a look and diagnose my problem please. My lights are off ATM but back on in 2 hours so can take a picture then and tag you in my journal if that's ok?

 

[Jon]

PUC Saturday Bud Porn
Pineapple Upside Down Cake (HSC genetics)
(Pineapple Trainwreck x Cookie Monster)
Flower Day 53

This girl is fattening up like crazy at the end. It's visible daily right now pretty much, and you can see it very clearly in a few of these pictures, especially the first one. Her frost production seems to have hit another gear as well which I think is also apparent in the photos. Also seeing her toss out more of her red or brownish hairs, depending on the bud. Some are shockingly red, some are more on the brown side of red. Pretty. Good light this morning, so here's some bud porn of the PUC finishing, and I hope this continues for days and days and they start to fall the hell down from their own weight. Last picture shows a pair of little budlets low on a branch to show you how the babies at the bottom are doing.

 

[Emilya Green]

@Emilya do you think you could take a look at my ladies in a bit. I've a tiny bit of yellowing at the tips of my leaves. I've treated it as an over feed but I'd love it if you could have a look and diagnose my problem please. My lights are off ATM but back on in 2 hours so can take a picture then and tag you in my journal if that's ok?

I will be happy to try to help Moony. I have been a little concerned over what I am seeing and hearing from the others in there and I think you might benefit from a new perspective. Give a tag and I will be happy to tell you what I see.

 

[cjsbabygirl313]

PUC Saturday Bud Porn
Pineapple Upside Down Cake (HSC genetics)
(Pineapple Trainwreck x Cookie Monster)
Flower Day 53

This girl is fattening up like crazy at the end. It's visible daily right now pretty much, and you can see it very clearly in a few of these pictures, especially the first one. Her frost production seems to have hit another gear as well which I think is also apparent in the photos. Also seeing her toss out more of her red or brownish hairs, depending on the bud. Some are shockingly red, some are more on the brown side of red. Pretty. Good light this morning, so here's some bud porn of the PUC finishing, and I hope this continues for days and days and they start to fall the hell down from their own weight. Last picture shows a pair of little budlets low on a branch to show you how the babies at the bottom are doing.

Dang @Jon ! That PUC is making some very pretty and sugary looking buds! Looks like you’ve actually dipped them in sugar!

 

[Jon]

Dang @Jon ! That PUC is making some very pretty and sugary looking buds! Looks like you’ve actually dipped them in sugar!

If only it had anything to do with me! All I've done is water. This is the genius of @GeoFlora Nutrients and Humboldt S.C. genetics, along with the good old sun. I agree though, she's pretty and pretty darn frosty. Thanks.

 

[StoneOtter]

I think that was one of my primary concerns and I think you're pretty much right. I propose the effectiveness would be relative to the time the plant has left. I'm thinking she's a month out. Also that the Geo will take 10 days or so to "catch up." That leaves three weeks for it to work it's magic. That was sort of my thinking. So to your point, if I flush, I compound the Geo's work, cuz it isn't as if the Sohum was NOTHING left, it still has plenty of most. I think this plant just drained either the cal or mag (I think it's mag - red spots only). If I don't flush I keep what's in there and just add more microbes basically. So the Geo is more a supplement, and the Geo guys themselves told me it can be used as such with bagged living soils, I just hadn't seen the potential need for it anywhere yet.

Thoughts on that?

And thank you of course!

With bagged living soils and Geoflora? I grew the outdoor plant this summer like that. Was happy with it and plan to re run them. FF ocean forest.
I'm weak on flushing never having done it. Most of my grows have been in LOS so I'm shying away from saying much.

 

[Jon]

With bagged living soils and Geoflora? I grew the outdoor plant this summer like that. Was happy with it and plan to re run them. FF ocean forest.
I'm weak on flushing never having done it. Most of my grows have been in LOS so I'm shying away from saying much.

I am too to be honest, that's why I am. You can live vicariously through me if you like. lol.

 

[Jon]

With bagged living soils and Geoflora? I grew the outdoor plant this summer like that. Was happy with it and plan to re run them. FF ocean forest.
I'm weak on flushing never having done it. Most of my grows have been in LOS so I'm shying away from saying much.

The Sohum gets no Geo, just the FF soil is Geo nutes. I use Happy Frog/Ocean Forest blend. That's also what the Pineapple Upside Down Cake is, FF with Geo. Plants seem to really like that combo.

 

[cjsbabygirl313]

The Sohum gets no Geo, just the FF soil is Geo nutes. I use Happy Frog/Ocean Forest blend. That's also what the Pineapple Upside Down Cake is, FF with Geo. Plants seem to really like that combo.

I tell ya @Jon … you’ve mentioned the Sohum previously and I also heard the words “water only” and must say that I am intrigued. If I ever end up doing a soil grow I’m definitely going to be hitting up you, @Bill284 , @InTheShed , @StoneOtter , and anyone else. There might a SLIGHT chance I won’t kill it in soil.

 

[Jon]

I tell ya @Jon … you’ve mentioned the Sohum previously and I also heard the words “water only” and must say that I am intrigued. If I ever end up doing a soil grow I’m definitely going to be hitting up you, @Bill284 , @InTheShed , @StoneOtter , and anyone else. There might a SLIGHT chance I won’t kill it in soil.

That is one kind. There's a bunch of different living soils out there that are like that, I just have had good results with it so I stick with it. I tried that particular one because when I was researching them I saw it was a former High Times Best Bagged Living Soil winner, and I figured that was a half decent pedigree.

 

[cjsbabygirl313]

That is one kind. There's a bunch of different living soils out there that are like that, I just have had good results with it so I stick with it. I tried that particular one because when I was researching them I saw it was a former High Times Best Bagged Living Soil winner, and I figured that was a half decent pedigree.

Right now I will say hydro is treating me right; Liv is blowing up my tent; not sure I can contain her! “20” width max” my foot - she’s almost touching both sides of the 36” wide tent!

 

[Jon]

Right now I will say hydro is treating me right; Liv is blowing up my tent; not sure I can contain her! “20” width max” my foot - she’s almost touching both sides of the 36” wide tent!

Funny....I'm learning hydro this spring/summer with another member's guidance. I want big big buds. The kind only hydro can make. I see plant after plant I grew the same strain of, and theirs is in hydro and mine soil and in almost every case the hydro is always bigger with bigger buds. I have come to believe I can't achieve the superstar yields I'm looking for without giving hydro a shot. But I wanna work on my soil game for a few more grows first before I take on an entirely new medium. Coco is new for me this time, but I have Bill, and it's close enough to soil that I already knew the basics are the same. Not so with hydro, I gotta learn everything and it seems a ton more complicated than soil. I'm psyched to learn it and have as much trepidation about learning that new medium as you probably did before you began hydro. And look at you now! You're doing great!!