Jon's First New Digs Grow

[Jon]

Day 9

All this picture tells me is that I personally won’t waste perfectly good organic soil on an auto again. A photo could have used this. Autos in soil just ain’t that much fun for me. Way too slow a rate of growth. Sure the quality will be better. But the yield will be way lower. This is easily a node or node and a half behind where it would be with coco and nutes. Come spring I’m using the Cyco I have and doing an entire big tent of huge fricking autos. I’ll learn my organic stuff with worthy of the effort photos in the other six tents. Otherwise I’m wasting the almost two whole sets complete of Cyco Platinum full series I already have. I’m just booooored. Lmao.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Day 9

All this picture tells me is that I personally won’t waste perfectly good organic soil on an auto again. A photo could have used this. Autos in soil just ain’t that much fun for me. Way too slow a rate of growth. Sure the quality will be better. But the yield will be way lower. This is easily a node or node and a half behind where it would be with coco and nutes.

This is a very interesting observation! Thank you for pointing that out. It makes returning to growing with coco very tempting indeed.

My motivating force for using LOS as opposed to coco and nutes is to conserve natural resources and reduce pollution. I can't bear the thought of all of those mixed up nutes going down the drain and polluting the water, or the constant production of coco at industrial levels. Although, I don't know if growing in soil is any less harmful to the planet. Maybe it's not!

Come spring I’m using the Cyco I have and doing an entire big tent of huge fricking autos. I’ll learn my organic stuff with worthy of the effort photos in the other six tents. Otherwise I’m wasting the almost two whole sets complete of Cyco Platinum full series I already have. I’m just booooored. Lmao.

The colour is great! It's a healthy seedling

 

[Jon]

This is a very interesting observation! Thank you for pointing that out. It makes returning to growing with coco very tempting indeed.

My motivating force for using LOS as opposed to coco and nutes is to conserve natural resources and reduce pollution. I can't bear the thought of all of those mixed up nutes going down the drain and polluting the water, or the constant production of coco at industrial levels. Although, I don't know if growing in soil is any less harmful to the planet. Maybe it's not!


The colour is great! It's a healthy seedling

Thanks Carmen. They’re just autos at the end of the day. No matter whether I can grow them or not that’s all they’ll ever be to me as I’ve said before. They pale next to photos in my real heart. But my thing is, if I’m gonna bother to grow them I might as well try to get them big and find some good ones. For contrast, here’s the last auto I grew in Florida in coco with nutes. This is a Strawberry Banana auto from 420FastBuds in a 5x5. See what I mean?

 

[Carmen Ray]

Thanks Carmen. They’re just autos at the end of the day. No matter whether I can grow them or not that’s all they’ll ever be to me as I’ve said before. They pale next to photos in my real heart. But my thing is, if I’m gonna bother to grow them I might as well try to get them big and find some good ones. For contrast, here’s the last auto I grew in Florida in coco with nutes. This is a Strawberry Banana auto from 420FastBuds in a 5x5. See what I mean?

I remember this plant. It's unforgettable!

 

[StoneOtter]

Lol! Thanks @StoneOtter! I’m glad you’ve seen that cuz I had no idea or awareness that that’s what I was doing. All I really know is I can tell when a plant is truly happy and I try to keep em that way.

That's a good one! You've been at it and I've been grinding my mind to get any clues as to what, when, how etc. I'm happy to see it come to light here so we can watch now. Come to light, see what i did there?

 

[Gee64]

Day 9

All this picture tells me is that I personally won’t waste perfectly good organic soil on an auto again. A photo could have used this. Autos in soil just ain’t that much fun for me. Way too slow a rate of growth. Sure the quality will be better. But the yield will be way lower. This is easily a node or node and a half behind where it would be with coco and nutes. Come spring I’m using the Cyco I have and doing an entire big tent of huge fricking autos. I’ll learn my organic stuff with worthy of the effort photos in the other six tents. Otherwise I’m wasting the almost two whole sets complete of Cyco Platinum full series I already have. I’m just booooored. Lmao.

This is good intel Jon, I never really gave this a thought but one day when I try auto's your voice will ring in my head.

1st run soil takes time to establish. It takes about 2 weeks for a clone in 1st run soil to really take off but a clone in used soil, which is heavily innoculated with both microbes and myco will start to grow vigorously by day 3 in soil.

Seeds are the same. A seed popped in new soil grows just like yours, which looks very healthy btw, but a seed popped in a mix that has lots of used soil will grow much faster, especially at the root level, again because of innoculation. Myco is already linked to the soil biome, it's just waiting to contact a root.

If you were reading GeeSpot over the last few months there was actually a great example of this. I dropped some aeroclones into used soil and in 18 days they went from 5-8" tall up to 32-36" tall, and the round of aeroclones I'm doing right now are on day 14 and not a foot tall yet. The ones I'm doing right now have no used soil in them, thats the only difference.

I bet if you save some of this soil after harvest and pop a seed in it that you will see faster growth.

It's hard to equal synthetic veg speed as synthetics cram the nitrogen in.

Autos and synthetics actually make a lot of sense to me now.

 

[Jon]

This is good intel Jon, I never really gave this a thought but one day when I try auto's your voice will ring in my head.

1st run soil takes time to establish. It takes about 2 weeks for a clone in 1st run soil to really take off but a clone in used soil, which is heavily innoculated with both microbes and myco will start to grow vigorously by day 3 in soil.

Seeds are the same. A seed popped in new soil grows just like yours, which looks very healthy btw, but a seed popped in a mix that has lots of used soil will grow much faster, especially at the root level, again because of innoculation. Myco is already linked to the soil biome, it's just waiting to contact a root.

If you were reading GeeSpot over the last few months there was actually a great example of this. I dropped some aeroclones into used soil and in 18 days they went from 5-8" tall up to 32-36" tall, and the round of aeroclones I'm doing right now are on day 14 and not a foot tall yet. The ones I'm doing right now have no used soil in them, thats the only difference.

I bet if you save some of this soil after harvest and pop a seed in it that you will see faster growth.

It's hard to equal synthetic veg speed as synthetics cram the nitrogen in.

Autos and synthetics actually make a lot of sense to me now.

I was gonna start my used soil with these two pots so thanks for that. And it makes perfect sense.

 

[Jon]

Shout out to @Rocket Seeds, @Original Sensible Seeds, @Herbies Seeds, and @ViparSpectra. These are the sponsors who have either delivered my prizes or I have tracking for. It is immensely appreciated. Your guy’s participation makes this all work and doesn’t go unnoticed by anyone. I now have more seeds than I know what to do with but one can have worse problems.

 

[Jon]

I was gonna start my used soil with these two pots so thanks for that. And it makes perfect sense.

Also, I may just try exactly what you say here and do an auto in that big tent with this used soil and see what sort of difference we see.

 

[Gee64]

Also, I may just try exactly what you say here and do an auto in that big tent with this used soil and see what sort of difference we see.

Even if all you do is get the used soil around the roots initially, it jumpstarts everything and when you uppot you can use used soil or not, as the innoculation is already in.

All my 1st run soil mixes are 25% used soil. 2nd runs onwards it becomes less important except you still need some blended in to replace myco that doesn't always survive cooking.

Sprouting and 1st uppotting are the crucial moments for it.

 

[Jon]

Hey @Gee64, I’m asking you this question here cuz it started here. I just went to grab my bat guano from the garage and I had thought it was 4-3-1. In fact it is 7-3-1. So while I’m not at all worried about the base mix up top in the pots, I am reconsidering my top dress or bat guano usage regimen I talked about earlier. In light of this, and being pretty damn N heavy, if I still want to try EWC and BG, got any thoughts on when or frequency of each and the like? Below is the front and the skinny on my actual product. My Yoda in Oregon suggested to me that these would work great and is a pretty solid brand so all my stuff is this Down To Earth.

 

[Jon]

Hey @Gee64, I’m asking you this question here cuz it started here. I just went to grab my bat guano from the garage and I had thought it was 4-3-1. In fact it is 7-3-1. So while I’m not at all worried about the base mix up top in the pots, I am reconsidering my top dress or bat guano usage regimen I talked about earlier. In light of this, and being pretty damn N heavy, if I still want to try EWC and BG, got any thoughts on when or frequency of each and the like? Below is the front and the skinny on my actual product. My Yoda in Oregon suggested to me that these would work great and is a pretty solid brand so all my stuff is this Down To Earth.

Also I assume if this is 7-3-1, those numbers reflect the concentration of specific microbes that produce these by products in a direct ratio?

 

[Jon]

Also I assume if this is 7-3-1, those numbers reflect the concentration of specific microbes that produce these by products in a direct ratio?

And In advance!

 

[Gee64]

Hey @Gee64, I’m asking you this question here cuz it started here. I just went to grab my bat guano from the garage and I had thought it was 4-3-1. In fact it is 7-3-1. So while I’m not at all worried about the base mix up top in the pots, I am reconsidering my top dress or bat guano usage regimen I talked about earlier. In light of this, and being pretty damn N heavy, if I still want to try EWC and BG, got any thoughts on when or frequency of each and the like? Below is the front and the skinny on my actual product. My Yoda in Oregon suggested to me that these would work great and is a pretty solid brand so all my stuff is this Down To Earth.

I've never used Down to Earth but I've only heard good things about the brand.

The guano I use is a heavier P, lighter N guano, I use feathermeal for my slow release N, but I would use this weekly as a topdressing thru veg and flower. If you think flower looks to N-ish then stop using it.

I like N in the cooked mix not as a top dressing. Once things are rolling in flower I mainly topdress minerals, but if you use this in veg and the plant doesn't use all the P in it during veg, which it likely won't, the P won't leach out, it will hang around in the soil until flower.

Up to the end of stretch it will be totally safe and useful. After stretch watch for signs of too much N, such as nugs being too fluffy. If you see signs then stop.

 

[Gee64]

Also I assume if this is 7-3-1, those numbers reflect the concentration of specific microbes that produce these by products in a direct ratio?

Those numbers are the percentages of NPK in the guano, and even tho it's not outrageously high in nitrogen, it is on a percentage scale vs P and K, so in veg it's the bomb. In stretch even better, but I would lay off it after stretch and let your soil microbes fix nitrogen from the atmosphere as needed, just like it would happen in the jungle, and that way the plant only gets the exact amount needed in flower, which is still a fair bit, but not that high.

If I were you I would get a 2nd bucket of bat guano that is high phosphorus like this...

or Down To Earth may even have it, and switch to that about a week before you expect stretch to stop.

As long as your calcium is good then magnesium is held in check and the atmosphere supplies plenty of nitrogen.

If calcium gets low the excess amounts of magnesium on the Ca:Mg ratio will lock nitrogen out.

That's how CalMag greens plants up, it rebalances the Ca:Mg ratio and magnesium gets electrically neutralized and unlocks from nitrogen, allowing nitrogen to become available again.

I like this, Gaia Power Bloom 2-8-4

weekly,with some high P guano mixed in every 2nd week as a top dressing, as well as weekly EWC and regular fish hydrolysate waterings during flower.

Unless I need to fix something, thats my entire flowering feed right there. Gaia, bat guano, EWC, and fish water.

But.... If you are using Yoda's recipe then use what Yoda says to use because it will be in balance with his soil recipe. Balance is always key in LOS.

It's going to take you a couple or 3 recycles to both see better results and catch on thru observation as to how to dial your plants in, and how what you do to your soil sways that balance, but after a few runs when your soil settles in and you learn it's language you will be the boss again.

Then you can really start pushing limits. Make 'em your bitches.

1st run soil kinda sucks. It's not balanced yet so it moves slow. Once it balances and the microlife sets up shop, the CEC establishes, calcium gets fully homogenous, and exudates start to flow, it moves quick. You can literally watch the dirt disappear daily.

The better you cook it and the healthier your myco is greatly enhances how quickly it stops being slow.

High brix plants eat a lot, and really love minerals in flower. Soil nitrogen needs extra water and impedes this.

But again, if you are using Yodas mix, follow his instructions, thats important. Trust it.

 

[StoneOtter]

Hey @Gee64, I’m asking you this question here cuz it started here. I just went to grab my bat guano from the garage and I had thought it was 4-3-1. In fact it is 7-3-1. So while I’m not at all worried about the base mix up top in the pots, I am reconsidering my top dress or bat guano usage regimen I talked about earlier. In light of this, and being pretty damn N heavy, if I still want to try EWC and BG, got any thoughts on when or frequency of each and the like? Below is the front and the skinny on my actual product. My Yoda in Oregon suggested to me that these would work great and is a pretty solid brand so all my stuff is this Down To Earth.

I've been using Papa's Perfect Poop at 5-10-2 if that helps.

 

[Azimuth]

I've been using Papa's Perfect Poop at 5-10-2 if that helps.

Is that a brand name or, something worse?

 

[Jon]

Is that brand name or, something worse?

Wow! Heavy P!

 

[Jon]

Day 14

Today the girls got their first “actual” watering.

When I begin a seedling in the final vessel, I start them in a moist pot with extra wet where they go in the center. From there, regardless of medium, but especially in soil, I am strictly and only building roots for a while. So first I let the pot get dry while the seedling establishes itself and then I start targeted root building. This means I use the classic wet/dry cycle a’la everyone but first learned from my original 420 Sensei, @Emilya Green. In my case I like to dig a little trough around the plant to water into. If you go slowly enough, you can easily “target” the water that way. While this may be somewhat fantasy on my part, it seems to work for building roots outward. As the plants grow wider my trough gets wider as well. It is almost always a circle around the widest (closest to edge of pot) leaf tip.

After about two weeks, (less when using nutes), assuming it passes my “eye test,” I start what I think of as the intermediate watering. This is what I did today for the first time. The eye test is nothing more than me assessing the size and probable depth and extent of the root system. The methodology isn’t too different, in that I’m still watering to the edges and hardly ever down the middle. But now we start to use more water and make sure all my little crobes are getting what they need, especially in the California Super Soil that lives at the bottom third of the pot. This step is before the flower watering, at which point (a’la @Gee64) I’m going for a perfectly moist pot for most of the time.

The Watermelon Wedding Cake auto is an extremely forgiving strain which grows well in a wide range of conditions. But it’s seems to prefer a temp range of around 78-82(F) and an early RH of around 65%. That’s based strictly on growing it about seven times and observation of when I feel it seems “happiest.” So that’s where I attempt to keep it.

Using this method has produced excellent results for me to this point, and I’m an if it ain’t broke don’t fix it sort of person in some ways. This being one. So we will stick with this for now.

Here’s the girls having just now watered. I’ll show them later after they adjust too. It’s 9:15 am here now.

Edit: that whitish stripe you see on the one plant I have come to know is a strain specific thing. Every single one of this strain I’ve grown shows it intermittently somewhere at some point, regardless of medium or growing style. It’s so consistent it’s almost a characteristic to me. Not a deficiency.

 

[Jon]

Day 15

I got distracted yesterday and forgot to post the after shots, but they’re in today’s post.

First, here’s the side and top shots of the girls after their first significant watering.

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The first two pictures are the taller plant in the 5-gallon pot. This one is growing in the exact same way as I’ve almost always experienced with the WWC, which is tallish, with medium length internodal spacing and strong side branching that develops early compared to many other strains. I’ll call this one the “classic” phenotype. To me it grows like a hybrid.

The second two pictures are the shorter plant in the 7-gallon pot. This one appears to be different to me. At this point I see it’s shorter, with much tighter intermodal spacing. It also doesn’t pray as hard as the taller one. I’ll call this one the “Indica” phenotype. The strain is a cross of Watermelon Zkittlez and Wedding Cake. Despite being a bit indica heavy, it grows like a heavy and super productive hybrid most of the time, as in the first plant. This is rare for me with this strain. We will see as we go if they are indeed two different phenotypes.

Here’s some shots to show the strong early side branching and the overall structure, in the same order, ie, taller plant first.

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Side branching is one of the strengths of this plant. They develop early and grow a lot. Often the colas get big enough to compete with the main colas. This is typical of how they grow.

So that’s that. Caught up.