Jon's First New Digs Grow

[Bill284]

Day 5

Plants aren’t particularly worth showcasing just yet, lol, but I did take an action today worth showing and sharing my reasoning. Part of my “process.”

Today I finished topping the pots. Meaning I filled in the edges up to the finish level. The pots now look like this:

IMG_7158.jpeg

• Jon
• Oct 4, 2024

IMG_7159.jpeg

• Jon
• Oct 4, 2024

Here’s how the two babies are, and as always, I continue to be amazed at the difference in growth rate of autos in organic soil vs coco with nutes. They simply would be significantly, noticeably larger at day five in coco with chem nutes. No comment on quality just sheer rate of growth. But they’re happy and healthy so far and the first set of leaves is beginning to emerge.

IMG_7160.jpeg

• Jon
• Oct 4, 2024

IMG_7161.jpeg

• Jon
• Oct 4, 2024

So why do it after five days? Why not top the pots as soon as you can? My thinking is this:

It takes a few days before the plant has finished whatever stretching it’ll do and establish the cotys and first set of non leaves, as you see here. Until then, I really don’t know for sure if I may have to bury a stem a half an inch or anything like that. So I fill the pot 90-95% to begin, and the let the seed sprout from a “hill” in the middle where I want the top of the soil to end up. Then, once established to the point I show today, which is usually right around day five or maybe four, depending on the strain and medium and light and such, I “finish top.” For organics and since we are talking in the few handfuls of dirt, not near a half gallon even, I simply use the FFOH, as it comes. It’s prettier to look at than my soil mix using the same FFOH as a base. And it’ll take the EWC and such, at least the very first time, better than my perlite heavier and amended mix.

As usual, part Jon logic, sort of slightly an esthetic thing, but to me, also part of reading a plant out of the gate and responding to it as an individual thing. If that makes sense.

Have a great weekend guys. Go Phillies and send the stinking Mets home for game three down 0-2.

Love to see a nice full pot.
Go Phillies
Have a good Buddy




Stay Safe
Bill284

 

[Jon]

Hi, it looks as if you've planted your seedlings close to the side of the pot. Have you or is it an optical illusion? If you have, why have you done that?

Nope. Optical illusion Carm. Or perhaps your MAC.

 

[Jon]

My Friday chuckle…

See the furry thing in the back corner of the floor inside the grow space? That would be Molly. Molly is a 12.5 lb. Malshi who has a particular skill for finding the warmest spot in any room.

 

[StoneOtter]

Hey Jon! I'm happy to see you're back in the grow! I missed you! Nice to see you made the move and getting settled. Looking forwards to watching one of your informative grows again! Go Watermelon Weddingcake! Sounds yummy already!

 

[Ramblinrose1965]

Hi Jon, You got me all excited from that facemelter JackStraw from 10-20-'84. So I started peeking at your new grow here. Mind if I take a seat in the back?

 

[Jon]

Hi Jon, You got me all excited from that facemelter JackStraw from 10-20-'84. So I started peeking at your new grow here. Mind if I take a seat in the back?

All are welcome here my friend. Glad you enjoyed that. Now you understand my little history tour I included in that post. Funny thing about 84 is that many experienced Heads crap all over that year. 83-84 are often considered the “coke” years. I’m sure you’ve listened - everything was simply played way way too fast. Almost every show in 84. This 10-20-84 was an exception, now that I’ve heard most of the year. Check out the entire show sometime if you like, it’s quite special. (What many consider the top Birdsong of the year precedes that Jackstraw for example) Having just arrived, I had no idea about any of that. All I know is I loved it. But yes, thanks for stopping by. Appreciate anyone who is willing to take the time to read the lunacy that sometimes happens here. All I ask of anyone who I know is in one of my journals for the first time is to know that we try pretty hard here to be respectful and maintain a positive vibe. Although in your case I already know that was an unnecessary sentence.

 

[Jon]

Saturday and the playoffs begin today for us and I am already jonesing for 4 pm. But I had a weird dream last night I was thinking about, and while I’ll keep that in the bank, it did lead to what may (or may not, you guys tell me) be a valid experiment. Anyone who wishes to chime in on this, as always, please do, as this is admittedly off the cuff.

So….

Probably the most often asked questions I get are about what light level to begin seedlings at. My stance on that is pretty well known among those who know me, but in short I tend to be more aggressive than many prefer to begin. This means I usually start them between 500-600 ppfd. For many that would be considered too high.

We can discuss the why I do that later if anyone is curious, but the short answer is that it tends to eliminate stretchy seedlings. Stretchy seedlings is an exceedingly common problem among growers of all skill levels. And especially in the case of autos, it can cost you days of growth that you really really want if you grow autos. In my world the same is true for photos, but it matters in auto growing a lot more, since it ain’t you controlling the veg days with autos. Every day the plant uses its energy to stretch upwards, it is NOT applying the right amount of energy to leaf development. Plants don’t take off usually until they have enough mass of solar panel to fuel the growth, at least in my observation/experience. So you can see why this is especially an issue in the auto growing game. Also in short, I blame the internet.

So back to the light levels to start. I think this might be a valid experiment and I will try this myself in the spring.

Pop any seedling you want. Auto or photo. Put it in your medium, even just a Solo cup would be fine for this. Set your light level (measured with some form of app or whatever, so that when they break ground you know exactly what the ppfd is they are busting into) at whatever level you believe they should start at. Some go as low as 200 ppfd. An often quoted range is 200-400. So set the light anywhere you feel works. Now watch what happens when the plant breaks ground. I will argue all day that if you begin at 200 ppfd, 99 out of 100 times your plant will begin to stretch. This is an experiment. Let it stretch. Watch each day carefully and see when it STOPS stretching. This is easily observable.

Now measure the ppfd at that height.

I am suggesting here that whatever that number is, it represents where that strain, in your medium and feeding and environment and however you grow, would prefer you to begin the light level. I will further argue that it will almost always be a significantly higher number than you would have been comfortable starting at.

There’s my Saturday morning foray into the unknown. Is this a valid experiment based on legit logic? Or total bullshit? All opinions are welcome. If I knew I’d likely say so in some fashion.

 

[Jon]

Hey Jon! I'm happy to see you're back in the grow! I missed you! Nice to see you made the move and getting settled. Looking forwards to watching one of your informative grows again! Go Watermelon Weddingcake! Sounds yummy already!

Hiya SO, how you be man? I owe you about 1000 check-ins, like everyone else. Good to be back back, even if it’s a dumb compromise grow. LOL!! And thanks. Glad you stopped in.

 

[KeithLemon]

Good morning, Jon

 

[Jon]

Good morning, Jon

Morning Keith! You must have had a lot more cooperative weather this year, yes?

 

[KeithLemon]

Yes, Jon it has been a much drier year. That and the changes I did with my plants has worked out for me. Except for the PM problem I had with Banana Jealousy it has been a very good year. Still have one plant to go and it is sativa, so I have at least a couple weeks to go.

 

[Ramblinrose1965]

All are welcome here my friend. Glad you enjoyed that. Now you understand my little history tour I included in that post. Funny thing about 84 is that many experienced Heads crap all over that year. 83-84 are often considered the “coke” years. I’m sure you’ve listened - everything was simply played way way too fast. Almost every show in 84. This 10-20-84 was an exception, now that I’ve heard most of the year. Check out the entire show sometime if you like, it’s quite special. (What many consider the top Birdsong of the year precedes that Jackstraw for example) Having just arrived, I had no idea about any of that. All I know is I loved it. But yes, thanks for stopping by. Appreciate anyone who is willing to take the time to read the lunacy that sometimes happens here. All I ask of anyone who I know is in one of my journals for the first time is to know that we try pretty hard here to be respectful and maintain a positive vibe. Although in your case I already know that was an unnecessary sentence.

I will try to behave myself and sit quietly in the back. Thank You Jon

 

[Azimuth]

Saturday and the playoffs begin today for us and I am already jonesing for 4 pm. But I had a weird dream last night I was thinking about, and while I’ll keep that in the bank, it did lead to what may (or may not, you guys tell me) be a valid experiment. Anyone who wishes to chime in on this, as always, please do, as this is admittedly off the cuff.

So….

Probably the most often asked questions I get are about what light level to begin seedlings at. My stance on that is pretty well known among those who know me, but in short I tend to be more aggressive than many prefer to begin. This means I usually start them between 500-600 ppfd. For many that would be considered too high.

We can discuss the why I do that later if anyone is curious, but the short answer is that it tends to eliminate stretchy seedlings. Stretchy seedlings is an exceedingly common problem among growers of all skill levels. And especially in the case of autos, it can cost you days of growth that you really really want if you grow autos. In my world the same is true for photos, but it matters in auto growing a lot more, since it ain’t you controlling the veg days with autos. Every day the plant uses its energy to stretch upwards, it is NOT applying the right amount of energy to leaf development. Plants don’t take off usually until they have enough mass of solar panel to fuel the growth, at least in my observation/experience. So you can see why this is especially an issue in the auto growing game. Also in short, I blame the internet.

So back to the light levels to start. I think this might be a valid experiment and I will try this myself in the spring.

Pop any seedling you want. Auto or photo. Put it in your medium, even just a Solo cup would be fine for this. Set your light level (measured with some form of app or whatever, so that when they break ground you know exactly what the ppfd is they are busting into) at whatever level you believe they should start at. Some go as low as 200 ppfd. An often quoted range is 200-400. So set the light anywhere you feel works. Now watch what happens when the plant breaks ground. I will argue all day that if you begin at 200 ppfd, 99 out of 100 times your plant will begin to stretch. This is an experiment. Let it stretch. Watch each day carefully and see when it STOPS stretching. This is easily observable.

Now measure the ppfd at that height.

I am suggesting here that whatever that number is, it represents where that strain, in your medium and feeding and environment and however you grow, would prefer you to begin the light level. I will further argue that it will almost always be a significantly higher number than you would have been comfortable starting at.

There’s my Saturday morning foray into the unknown. Is this a valid experiment based on legit logic? Or total bullshit? All opinions are welcome. If I knew I’d likely say so in some fashion.

I think you're right about higher light levels for seedlings. Think about it in nature everywhere but near the equator. Seedlings break ground in the spring in full sun, though that sun angle is lower in the sky so it is a bit gentler, but it's full on sun mode, not a watered down version.

In my height restricted space I put new seedlings right up near my light on a small stand to stop the stretching. Don't know the PPFD but I can check it later.

 

[MedScientist]

Saturday and the playoffs begin today for us and I am already jonesing for 4 pm. But I had a weird dream last night I was thinking about, and while I’ll keep that in the bank, it did lead to what may (or may not, you guys tell me) be a valid experiment. Anyone who wishes to chime in on this, as always, please do, as this is admittedly off the cuff.

So….

Probably the most often asked questions I get are about what light level to begin seedlings at. My stance on that is pretty well known among those who know me, but in short I tend to be more aggressive than many prefer to begin. This means I usually start them between 500-600 ppfd. For many that would be considered too high.

We can discuss the why I do that later if anyone is curious, but the short answer is that it tends to eliminate stretchy seedlings. Stretchy seedlings is an exceedingly common problem among growers of all skill levels. And especially in the case of autos, it can cost you days of growth that you really really want if you grow autos. In my world the same is true for photos, but it matters in auto growing a lot more, since it ain’t you controlling the veg days with autos. Every day the plant uses its energy to stretch upwards, it is NOT applying the right amount of energy to leaf development. Plants don’t take off usually until they have enough mass of solar panel to fuel the growth, at least in my observation/experience. So you can see why this is especially an issue in the auto growing game. Also in short, I blame the internet.

So back to the light levels to start. I think this might be a valid experiment and I will try this myself in the spring.

Pop any seedling you want. Auto or photo. Put it in your medium, even just a Solo cup would be fine for this. Set your light level (measured with some form of app or whatever, so that when they break ground you know exactly what the ppfd is they are busting into) at whatever level you believe they should start at. Some go as low as 200 ppfd. An often quoted range is 200-400. So set the light anywhere you feel works. Now watch what happens when the plant breaks ground. I will argue all day that if you begin at 200 ppfd, 99 out of 100 times your plant will begin to stretch. This is an experiment. Let it stretch. Watch each day carefully and see when it STOPS stretching. This is easily observable.

Now measure the ppfd at that height.

I am suggesting here that whatever that number is, it represents where that strain, in your medium and feeding and environment and however you grow, would prefer you to begin the light level. I will further argue that it will almost always be a significantly higher number than you would have been comfortable starting at.

There’s my Saturday morning foray into the unknown. Is this a valid experiment based on legit logic? Or total bullshit? All opinions are welcome. If I knew I’d likely say so in some fashion.

I do Believe, from years of growing, that you are Correct! Light intensity does effect rate of growth.

When you give more light to seedlings, it allows the Energy to be directed to the Roots. Once the roots hit their Sweet Spot (hit the bottom and/or side of container) and find the PWT feeding zone, it reverts Energy back to the leaves proportionately. Some would say this is when Veg begins.. so increase the light intensity to match demand!

I don't think we need to experiment for answers, this has been written about for years. We just need to wait for @InTheShed to show up, because he participated in just about Everything here at 420, and can probably provide us with a link!

 

[Roy Growin]

Saturday and the playoffs begin today for us and I am already jonesing for 4 pm. But I had a weird dream last night I was thinking about, and while I’ll keep that in the bank, it did lead to what may (or may not, you guys tell me) be a valid experiment. Anyone who wishes to chime in on this, as always, please do, as this is admittedly off the cuff.

So….

Probably the most often asked questions I get are about what light level to begin seedlings at. My stance on that is pretty well known among those who know me, but in short I tend to be more aggressive than many prefer to begin. This means I usually start them between 500-600 ppfd. For many that would be considered too high.

We can discuss the why I do that later if anyone is curious, but the short answer is that it tends to eliminate stretchy seedlings. Stretchy seedlings is an exceedingly common problem among growers of all skill levels. And especially in the case of autos, it can cost you days of growth that you really really want if you grow autos. In my world the same is true for photos, but it matters in auto growing a lot more, since it ain’t you controlling the veg days with autos. Every day the plant uses its energy to stretch upwards, it is NOT applying the right amount of energy to leaf development. Plants don’t take off usually until they have enough mass of solar panel to fuel the growth, at least in my observation/experience. So you can see why this is especially an issue in the auto growing game. Also in short, I blame the internet.

So back to the light levels to start. I think this might be a valid experiment and I will try this myself in the spring.

Pop any seedling you want. Auto or photo. Put it in your medium, even just a Solo cup would be fine for this. Set your light level (measured with some form of app or whatever, so that when they break ground you know exactly what the ppfd is they are busting into) at whatever level you believe they should start at. Some go as low as 200 ppfd. An often quoted range is 200-400. So set the light anywhere you feel works. Now watch what happens when the plant breaks ground. I will argue all day that if you begin at 200 ppfd, 99 out of 100 times your plant will begin to stretch. This is an experiment. Let it stretch. Watch each day carefully and see when it STOPS stretching. This is easily observable.

Now measure the ppfd at that height.

I am suggesting here that whatever that number is, it represents where that strain, in your medium and feeding and environment and however you grow, would prefer you to begin the light level. I will further argue that it will almost always be a significantly higher number than you would have been comfortable starting at.

There’s my Saturday morning foray into the unknown. Is this a valid experiment based on legit logic? Or total bullshit? All opinions are welcome. If I knew I’d likely say so in some fashion.

Agree entirely

 

[Jon]

I will try to behave myself and sit quietly in the back. Thank You Jon

Please don’t misinterpret. Everyone sits in the front here and whatever goes goes. I only make the respectful point cuz sometimes there are folks who push it and I hate shutting anyone down.

 

[Jon]

I do Believe, from years of growing, that you are Correct! Light intensity does effect rate of growth.

When you give more light to seedlings, it allows the Energy to be directed to the Roots. Once the roots hit their Sweet Spot (hit the bottom and/or side of container) and find the PWT feeding zone, it reverts Energy back to the leaves proportionately. Some would say this is when Veg begins.. so increase the light intensity to match demand!

I don't think we need to experiment for answers, this has been written about for years. We just need to wait for @InTheShed to show up, because he participated in just about Everything here at 420, and can probably provide us with a link!

Yup. Shed is responsible for more than one of the techniques I use every plant now, and I’ve often given him the credit he rightly deserves. Dude knows a thing or 1000.

 

[Jon]

Yup. Shed is responsible for more than one of the techniques I use every plant now, and I’ve often given him the credit he rightly deserves. Dude knows a thing or 1000.

To be honest I’m hoping he proves me wrong or only partially correct or whatever. I don’t give a lick about being right. I want to learn. I’ve found that by asking public questions in my own journal, anyone there gets the benefit of the answer as well. I just try to be clear about the difference between facts and something that’s maybe just a “Jon fact.” Lmao!

 

[InTheShed]

We just need to wait for @InTheShed to show up, because he participated in just about Everything here at 420, and can probably provide us with a link!

I really don't have enough experience growing under lights to know for sure. I do know that it's useless to compare indoor lighting to the sun, as hitting new sprouts with 120,000 lux inside would kill them in short order.

My thought in terms of light is always to look at the leaves. That said, I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that "praying" indicates anything about the correctness of light levels.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Saturday and the playoffs begin today for us and I am already jonesing for 4 pm. But I had a weird dream last night I was thinking about, and while I’ll keep that in the bank, it did lead to what may (or may not, you guys tell me) be a valid experiment. Anyone who wishes to chime in on this, as always, please do, as this is admittedly off the cuff.

So….

Probably the most often asked questions I get are about what light level to begin seedlings at. My stance on that is pretty well known among those who know me, but in short I tend to be more aggressive than many prefer to begin. This means I usually start them between 500-600 ppfd. For many that would be considered too high.

We can discuss the why I do that later if anyone is curious, but the short answer is that it tends to eliminate stretchy seedlings. Stretchy seedlings is an exceedingly common problem among growers of all skill levels. And especially in the case of autos, it can cost you days of growth that you really really want if you grow autos. In my world the same is true for photos, but it matters in auto growing a lot more, since it ain’t you controlling the veg days with autos. Every day the plant uses its energy to stretch upwards, it is NOT applying the right amount of energy to leaf development. Plants don’t take off usually until they have enough mass of solar panel to fuel the growth, at least in my observation/experience. So you can see why this is especially an issue in the auto growing game. Also in short, I blame the internet.

So back to the light levels to start. I think this might be a valid experiment and I will try this myself in the spring.

Pop any seedling you want. Auto or photo. Put it in your medium, even just a Solo cup would be fine for this. Set your light level (measured with some form of app or whatever, so that when they break ground you know exactly what the ppfd is they are busting into) at whatever level you believe they should start at. Some go as low as 200 ppfd. An often quoted range is 200-400. So set the light anywhere you feel works. Now watch what happens when the plant breaks ground. I will argue all day that if you begin at 200 ppfd, 99 out of 100 times your plant will begin to stretch. This is an experiment. Let it stretch. Watch each day carefully and see when it STOPS stretching. This is easily observable.

Now measure the ppfd at that height.

I am suggesting here that whatever that number is, it represents where that strain, in your medium and feeding and environment and however you grow, would prefer you to begin the light level. I will further argue that it will almost always be a significantly higher number than you would have been comfortable starting at.

There’s my Saturday morning foray into the unknown. Is this a valid experiment based on legit logic? Or total bullshit? All opinions are welcome. If I knew I’d likely say so in some fashion.

My new seedling doesn't like a lot of light. I moved it up to 450 ppfd and the leaves curled down. I moved it down again and the leaves flattened out. Other seedlings have taken more light than this, and others have been fine on low light. I'd tend to at least try it your way at first.

I will try to behave myself and sit quietly in the back. Thank You Jon

What, no couch in here? 🛋