Jon's Final Florida Journal For Real

[Jon]

The reality of an impending six tent grow hit me this week. Six tents? Crap. I need infrastructure. Thus:

 

[Gee64]

Blackberry Moonrocks

This plant is starting to go nuts.

This plant is a freak. Look at all those tops. You're right, It would have been a beauty grown untopped. Huge no doubt. Its gonna be pretty cool when its a grove of colas. There will be a really good photo-op there.

 

[Jon]

Garden

Here’s side shots of the three girls. They have definitely realized it’s time to get a’stretching. Last shot is the Skywalker cuz she’s so damn perfect I can’t not show her. Lol.

 

[Jon]

This plant is a freak. Look at all those tops. You're right, It would have been a beauty grown untopped. Huge no doubt. It’s gonna be pretty cool when its a grove of colas. There will be a really good photo-op there.

Thanks Gee. To clarify - she IS untopped. And untrained! I literally haven’t as much as pulled a cola to the side. Nothing but defol. So see her that way - this is how she grows!!!! She’s an amazing plant.

 

[Gee64]

Thanks Gee. To clarify - she IS untopped. And untrained! I literally haven’t as much as pulled a cola to the side. Nothing but defol. So see her that way - this is how she grows!!!! She’s an amazing plant.

Oh geez, I just assumed to be that bushy it was pinched out when it was young. So how big will autos get in the ground? much bigger than when grown in pots? Is a 10 foot auto possible outdoors?

 

[Gee64]

lol that blackberry moonrock, you could just clip a peony ring around it and your done Its like a giant living bouquet.

 

[Jon]

Oh geez, I just assumed to be that bushy it was pinched out when it was young. So how big will autos get in the ground? much bigger than when grown in pots? Is a 10 foot auto possible outdoors?

A ten foot auto? Outside? That’s all you want? And grown organic, not with nutes? Sure, lemme just go ahead and dial that up for you.



That may be setting the bar a little high Gee. Three things working against you in this scenario:

1. Outdoors autos get less light than in a tent. I run mine 24/0 until first pistils then 20/4 to the end. Outside is what? 14 hours at best? An auto will get bigger with more light hours. That’s why the yield approximate in the marketing with autos is opposite photos most of the time. They will list higher yields indoors if they’re being honest.
2. You’re organic. Which will make for the tastiest of weed and gorgeous plants no doubt. However - soil/organic/outdoor auto, whether it’s in the ground or a pot - will not get as big as a chem nute/ANY medium/indoor or outdoor auto. No matter how you grow it environmentally, chems win with autos for size, and coco destroys soil. My biggest soil auto ever was 7-some ounces.
3. I’m fairly certain that no human being has yet grown a ten foot auto under any circumstances - not even Jesus in the Garden of Eden. Lol! I sincerely hope I’m wrong and someone will show one here. But I’m not holding my breath. Lol.

But all that said, if you wanna take a shot, I would recommend either this Cherry Pie from Blimburn I’m growing in the scrog or the Watermelon Wedding Cake XXL from Growers Choice.

Heh.

 

[Gee64]

A ten foot auto? Outside? That’s all you want? And grown organic, not with nutes? Sure, lemme just go ahead and dial that up for you.



That may be setting the bar a little high Gee. Three things working against you in this scenario:

1. Outdoors autos get less light than in a tent. I run mine 24/0 until first pistils then 20/4 to the end. Outside is what? 14 hours at best? An auto will get bigger with more light hours. That’s why the yield approximate in the marketing with autos is opposite photos most of the time. They will list higher yields indoors if they’re being honest.
2. You’re organic. Which will make for the tastiest of weed and gorgeous plants no doubt. However - soil/organic/outdoor auto, whether it’s in the ground or a pot - will not get as big as a chem nute/ANY medium/indoor or outdoor auto. No matter how you grow it environmentally, chems win with autos for size, and coco destroys soil. My biggest soil auto ever was 7-some ounces.
3. I’m fairly certain that no human being has yet grown a ten foot auto under any circumstances - not even Jesus in the Garden of Eden. Lol! I sincerely hope I’m wrong and someone will show one here. But I’m not holding my breath. Lol.

But all that said, if you wanna take a shot, I would recommend either this Cherry Pie from Blimburn I’m growing in the scrog or the Watermelon Wedding Cake XXL from Growers Choice.

Heh.

So realistically, if you let an auto grow untrained, what maximum height could you expect, on average.

 

[Jon]

So realistically, if you let an auto grow untrained, what maximum height could you expect, on average.

It really depends on the strain and the way it’s grown. But if you mean outdoor organic in a pot, if you picked a big sativa or hybrid? I’ll say maybe four feet??? It’s a hard thing to get “on average.” The best way to control their size is via pot size. For a porch or indoor house plant/conversation piece I’d use threes or fives. For a tent or outside I’d use sevens or tens.

 

[Keffka]

So realistically, if you let an auto grow untrained, what maximum height could you expect, on average.

Sheesh this is kind of a noob question There’s a ton of variables and you know that.

In seriousness though, the ruderalis trait is powerful. Really powerful. There’s not a lot of tall plants other than trees near Siberia. If you had a sativa heavy blend you could likely get a good height, but again, tons of variables.

I see @Jon just answered but I’m gonna leave my shit talking anyway

 

[Jon]

Sheesh this is kind of a noob question There’s a ton of variables and you know that.

In seriousness though, the ruderalis trait is powerful. Really powerful. There’s not a lot of tall plants other than trees near Siberia. If you had a sativa heavy blend you could likely get a good height, but again, tons of variables.

I see @Jon just answered but I’m gonna leave my shit talking anyway

Please do @Keffka! Yeah that’s why I gravitate towards the XLs and XXLs. Maybe you know the answer to this, I can’t find a definitive answer anywhere…. I *think* the difference between an auto and an XL/XXL auto is the % of Ruderalis to photo in the genetics. If a regular auto is say 75/25 photo/Ruderalis, maybe an XL is 80/20 and an XXL 90/10 or something? Do you know?

 

[Gee64]

lol it is a noob question for sure Should I expect them to get too tall for an 8 foot tent if I dont top or train? Can I fit 4 of those in my 5 x 5? Can I manifold one? You know, newbie shit.

I have always looked at autos as gimmicks, but they are very sophisticated now so I gotta learn 'em. Jon knows 'em.

Like I have mentioned before, the ones I have seen in real life are a lot like the strains Carmen grows, really showy colors, so I want 4 of these on my deck in full flower all summer long, which means I have to start them indoors in the veg tent and cycle them thru so all summer long I have 4 in the last 2 weeks of their life out on my deck. Perpetual summer flower.

The ones I have seen were all in pots and about 4-5 feet tall, including the pot. Is that average? 4 feet of plant? I'm hoping 7 gallon organic pots will get me there, even if I need teas, I just want colors and smells all summer from May to October.

So this coming year outdoors, I want to just grow a couple to see if I even want too.

 

[Azimuth]

Please do @Keffka! Yeah that’s why I gravitate towards the XLs and XXLs. Maybe you know the answer to this, I can’t find a definitive answer anywhere…. I *think* the difference between an auto and an XL/XXL auto is the % of Ruderalis to photo in the genetics. If a regular auto is say 75/25 photo/Ruderalis, maybe an XL is 80/20 and an XXL 90/10 or something? Do you know?

Can you ask a breeder? There has to be a straightforward answer since the XXL strains don't seem to have (or need) a common strain's genetics. So your theory about percentages might be on track.

Or, the few breeders breeding that way may just have a killer big ruderalis stud plant they pass around.

 

[Jon]

lol it is a noob question for sure Should I expect them to get too tall for an 8 foot tent if I dont top or train? Can I fit 4 of those in my 5 x 5? Can I manifold one? You know, newbie shit.

I have always looked at autos as gimmicks, but they are very sophisticated now so I gotta learn 'em. Jon knows 'em.

Like I have mentioned before, the ones I have seen in real life are a lot like the strains Carmen grows, really showy colors, so I want 4 of these on my deck in full flower all summer long, which means I have to start them indoors in the veg tent and cycle them thru so all summer long I have 4 in the last 2 weeks of their life out on my deck. Perpetual summer flower.

The ones I have seen were all in pots and about 4-5 feet tall, including the pot. Is that average? 4 feet of plant? I'm hoping 7 gallon organic pots will get me there, even if I need teas, I just want colors and smells all summer from May to October.

So this coming year outdoors, I want to just grow a couple to see if I even want too.

Ha! Another one begins to gravitate towards the evil side. Lmao! I patted myself on the back for a month when I finally got Emilya to grow one. So she grew one of my Platinum Mimosa Cookies I believe. She’s a semi organic as you know. And it got as big as her photos and outyielded a few. Five feet of plant alone. So there’s one reference point.

For you, now that you’ve given more detail, it’s a best case scenario actually. From day one til the last two weeks when you put them on the porch, keep them at 20/4. Then let them finish in the sun. It will work great, you’ll get the best of both worlds. Don’t pick sativas. Pick indica leaning hybrids. That’s where your sweet colors are, as well as smell and often power. Plus a sativa might go nuts on you. Most indicas won’t get taller than four feet with the pot. It’s the sativas that are the wild cards. Just beware of short, tight indicas. They’re a PITA. I prefer like a 60/40 or 70/30. And yes, your pot size will be fine. Don’t know if you’ll need teas or not. And keep your eye on the calmag related signs as autos for some reason chew it up faster than photos, especially under LED.

 

[Keffka]

Please do @Keffka! Yeah that’s why I gravitate towards the XLs and XXLs. Maybe you know the answer to this, I can’t find a definitive answer anywhere…. I *think* the difference between an auto and an XL/XXL auto is the % of Ruderalis to photo in the genetics. If a regular auto is say 75/25 photo/Ruderalis, maybe an XL is 80/20 and an XXL 90/10 or something? Do you know?

I believe you’re correct. The XL and the XXLs are the result of a lot of breeding ruderalis with the strain they’ve chosen. They will keep picking strain dominant traits until eventually you’re looking at numbers like you posted. You’ll lose the quick flowering nature but gain greater yields.

A lot of times this means the auto will take longer to grow but it also means it will yield much more than average.

 

[Jon]

Ha! Another one begins to gravitate towards the evil side. Lmao! I patted myself on the back for a month when I finally got Emilya to grow one. So she grew one of my Platinum Mimosa Cookies I believe. She’s a semi organic as you know. And it got as big as her photos and outyielded a few. Five feet of plant alone. So there’s one reference point.

For you, now that you’ve given more detail, it’s a best case scenario actually. From day one til the last two weeks when you put them on the porch, keep them at 20/4. Then let them finish in the sun. It will work great, you’ll get the best of both worlds. Don’t pick sativas. Pick indica leaning hybrids. That’s where your sweet colors are, as well as smell and often power. Plus a sativa might go nuts on you. Most indicas won’t get taller than four feet with the pot. It’s the sativas that are the wild cards. Just beware of short, tight indicas. They’re a PITA. I prefer like a 60/40 or 70/30. And yes, your pot size will be fine. Don’t know if you’ll need teas or not. And keep your eye on the calmag related signs as autos for some reason chew it up faster than photos, especially under LED.

Hey @Chuckeye - you around? Dude it would be great if you feel like joining in here? You destroy me with autos. Also have grown some serious monsters!

 

[Jon]

I believe you’re correct. The XL and the XXLs are the result of a lot of breeding ruderalis with the strain they’ve chosen. They will keep picking strain dominant traits until eventually you’re looking at numbers like you posted. You’ll lose the quick flowering nature but gain greater yields.

A lot of times this means the auto will take longer to grow but it also means it will yield much more than average.

That supports my observations. The XLs and XXLs definitely run longer. Thanks!

 

[Jon]

Hey @Chuckeye - you around? Dude it would be great if you feel like joining in here? You destroy me with autos. Also have grown some serious monsters!

See the not so subtle ways I try to take pressure off myself?

 

[Gee64]

Ha! Another one begins to gravitate towards the evil side. Lmao! I patted myself on the back for a month when I finally got Emilya to grow one. So she grew one of my Platinum Mimosa Cookies I believe. She’s a semi organic as you know. And it got as big as her photos and outyielded a few. Five feet of plant alone. So there’s one reference point.

For you, now that you’ve given more detail, it’s a best case scenario actually. From day one til the last two weeks when you put them on the porch, keep them at 20/4. Then let them finish in the sun. It will work great, you’ll get the best of both worlds. Don’t pick sativas. Pick indica leaning hybrids. That’s where your sweet colors are, as well as smell and often power. Plus a sativa might go nuts on you. Most indicas won’t get taller than four feet with the pot. It’s the sativas that are the wild cards. Just beware of short, tight indicas. They’re a PITA. I prefer like a 60/40 or 70/30. And yes, your pot size will be fine. Don’t know if you’ll need teas or not. And keep your eye on the calmag related signs as autos for some reason chew it up faster than photos, especially under LED.

Awesome! I bookmarked that Thanks Jon, so how many days from sprout to chop on average?

 

[Jon]

Awesome! I bookmarked that Thanks Jon, so how many days from sprout to chop on average?

Again, strain specific. And again it’s best case scenario for you. For what you described, you want shorter times seed to harvest. Indicas are almost always shorter. Again I will recommend the Strawberry Gorilla from FastBuds. It’s sure to stay less than four feet tall, it’s colorful and way fragrant, it has a flower time of less than 70 days, so maybe 90-100 seed to harvest max - I’ve grown six of them and not once did they approach 100 days. More like 75 - 80. The sativas take longer. In my experience, the Ruderalis addition doesn’t really change basic plant morphology if you come from photos. The sativas still get longer and take longer. It’s so close in fact, at least to my eyes, that I often use autos to determine a photo I want to grow or vice versa. A good example of comparison was, last grow I had an Apple Fritter auto and @KeithLemon had a photo of the same. His is entered in PLOTM. Mine I screwed up but she was a record breaker. They looked basically the same other than scale.