Jon's Final Florida Journal For Real

[Jon]

I’ll just post the entire entry, sorry for doubling up @Jon but figured anyone following along not engaging would like to see it all.

Proper Germination 1/4

• Keffka
• Mar 10, 2023

Increase yield, quality, health and resilience with proper germination

Proper Germination 2/4

• Keffka
• Mar 10, 2023

Increase yield, quality, health and resilience with proper germination

Proper Germination 3/4

• Keffka
• Mar 10, 2023

Increase yield, quality, health and resilience with proper germination

Proper Germination 4/4

• Keffka
• Mar 10, 2023

Increase yield, quality, health and resilience with proper germination

What a great idea and thanks. I still have to read but great post.

 

[InTheShed]

Photos and Light Schedule Changes Question

I could use some feedback in this one guys as I haven’t, when growing photos, faced this particular question before - please and thanks in advance.

Because the tent began as an auto tent and was set to 20/4, and then I started the photos in the same tent, overlapping in early veg with the finish of the autos, all the now just photos left have vegged at 20/4 to this point.

I see that they begin to droop at night not at 2 am lights out but more like midnight. This tells me that they do not need 20 hours of light and that in fact with these particular plants, 18/6 would be better.

So my question is, is going from 20/4 to 18/6 in one bump, simply change my timer by two hours, safe and all that? I don’t see why it wouldn’t be with that numerical change. If it was 18/6 to 16/8 I was asking about I’d have more concern, for example, but 18/6 is still so far from 12/12 I would think it would be fine. That two hour bump from 20/4 will more likely make them happier, yes?

Leaves droop and rise during lights out as well, so I'm not so sure that drooping leaves is a sign of too much DLI.

It's more like 10.5 hours of darkness that's the actual number. Most of us use 12 just to be safe, so you won't be triggering any move toward flower with anything north of that.

I 100% disagree with that Azi. I have seen tent growers back their lights off 2 hours and send certain varieties into flower from 18/6 to 16/8. I've also seen too many folks move plants outside from 18/6 to whatever they're getting in late spring (14/10?) and send their plants into flower.

Plants don't need 12/12 to flower or no plants would start to flower outside until late September. They need a shortening of their light period, which tells them winter is on the way.

@Jon shorten your hours at your own risk. I would recommend leaving them right where they are, droop be damned.

He also says anything north of 12 no worries

Not me.

Rather than lead anyone to mine, I’ll simply toss this out. Thoughts anyone?

They're being pretty wishy washy with their recommendations. If that's they're approach they should say for expert growers only. Since you're sticking by their chart you will end up seeing what a new grower would experience.

 

[Jon]

Leaves droop and rise during lights out as well, so I'm not so sure that drooping leaves is a sign of too much DLI.

I 100% disagree with that Azi. I have seen tent growers back their lights off 2 hours and send certain varieties into flower from 18/6 to 16/8. I've also seen too many folks move plants outside from 18/6 to whatever they're getting in late spring (14/10?) and send their plants into flower.

Plants don't need 12/12 to flower or no plants would start to flower outside until late September. They need a shortening of their light period, which tells them winter is on the way.

@Jon shorten your hours at your own risk. I would recommend leaving them right where they are, droop be damned.

Not me.

They're being pretty wishy washy with their recommendations. If that's they're approach they should say for expert growers only. Since you're sticking by their chart you will end up seeing what a new grower would experience.

All I meant was you told me 12 hours is the sweet spot for flower. Sorry if I misrepresented you. The other stuff is all awesome and I was hoping you would express your opinion.

 

[Jon]

Leaves droop and rise during lights out as well, so I'm not so sure that drooping leaves is a sign of too much DLI.

I 100% disagree with that Azi. I have seen tent growers back their lights off 2 hours and send certain varieties into flower from 18/6 to 16/8. I've also seen too many folks move plants outside from 18/6 to whatever they're getting in late spring (14/10?) and send their plants into flower.

Plants don't need 12/12 to flower or no plants would start to flower outside until late September. They need a shortening of their light period, which tells them winter is on the way.

@Jon shorten your hours at your own risk. I would recommend leaving them right where they are, droop be damned.

Not me.

They're being pretty wishy washy with their recommendations. If that's their approach they should say for expert growers only. Since you're sticking by their chart you will end up seeing what a new grower would experience.

Also - not sure I’m correct about the droop at midnight equaling lower light. Just conjecture, and not relating to DLI (though perhaps it does). But I don’t fear 20/4 to 18/6. I’d fear anything else. Appreciate the heads up on the potential peril.

 

[Jon]

Leaves droop and rise during lights out as well, so I'm not so sure that drooping leaves is a sign of too much DLI.

I 100% disagree with that Azi. I have seen tent growers back their lights off 2 hours and send certain varieties into flower from 18/6 to 16/8. I've also seen too many folks move plants outside from 18/6 to whatever they're getting in late spring (14/10?) and send their plants into flower.

Plants don't need 12/12 to flower or no plants would start to flower outside until late September. They need a shortening of their light period, which tells them winter is on the way.

@Jon shorten your hours at your own risk. I would recommend leaving them right where they are, droop be damned.

Not me.

They're being pretty wishy washy with their recommendations. If that's they're approach they should say for expert growers only. Since you're sticking by their chart you will end up seeing what a new grower would experience.

I wouldn’t say wish washy so much as a bit different the way they intended than the way they present it. A bit of elocution in the chart text would at least give a heads up. But I don’t disagree - they’re a little tough and probably not the best choice for a raw newbie.

 

[InTheShed]

All I meant was you told me 12 hours is the sweet spot for flower.

I don't recall thinking there's a sweet spot for flower. In nature it's only 12/12 for one day.

I tend to run mine 11.5/12.5 or 11/13 since I dont have to worry about not hitting the DLI during light hours in the sun.

 

[Gee64]

Leaves droop and rise during lights out as well, so I'm not so sure that drooping leaves is a sign of too much DLI.

I 100% disagree with that Azi. I have seen tent growers back their lights off 2 hours and send certain varieties into flower from 18/6 to 16/8. I've also seen too many folks move plants outside from 18/6 to whatever they're getting in late spring (14/10?) and send their plants into flower.

Plants don't need 12/12 to flower or no plants would start to flower outside until late September. They need a shortening of their light period, which tells them winter is on the way.

@Jon shorten your hours at your own risk. I would recommend leaving them right where they are, droop be damned.

Not me.

They're being pretty wishy washy with their recommendations. If that's they're approach they should say for expert growers only. Since you're sticking by their chart you will end up seeing what a new grower would experience.

I track flower on my outdoor grow. The calendar says the 1st day of flower coincides with the 1st day under 15 hours of light for 3 years running now. Thats August 7th where I live. No science there but its a real life thing.

 

[InTheShed]

I track flower on my outdoor grow. The calendar says the 1st day of flower coincides with the 1st day under 15 hours of light for 3 years running now. Thats August 7th where I live. No science there but its a real life thing.

For every variety? That's consistent! When I used to flower by the sun I would see pistils any time from mid to late July depending on the variety. I see similar variations across this site with sativas always showing pistils later than indicas.

But when you see pistils is just a visual sign that has nothing to do with when the plants went into flower, which is the first day of summer. It's not specific hours of light that trigger flower, it's the diminishing light (on a daily basis) after the summer solstice.

 

[Gee64]

For every variety? That's consistent! When I used to flower by the sun I would see pistils any time from mid to late July depending on the variety. I see similar variations across this site with sativas always showing pistils later than indicas.

But when you see pistils is just a visual sign that has nothing to do with when the plants went into flower, which is the first day of summer. It's not specific hours of light that trigger flower, it's the diminishing light (on a daily basis) after the summer solstice.

I have only grown 2 50/50 hybrids, both the same strain, 2 years in a row, and 1 full Indica strain. Same day for all 3. I did grow a Candida CD-1 sativa pheno but I didnt track it. It finished the same day as the hybrid so it would have been close.

I can tell when they flip. They get "The look" and the smell changes. Pistils usually pop at about 7 weeks from sprout.

 

[CaptainLucky]

Sunday Off Topic

Any fisherman out there? Do you like badass fish who are gorgeous and pound for pound outfight everything in Florida except maybe a tarpon?

Say hello to the Peacock Bass. Not really a bass. A cichlid. Native to South America where they grow to 30+ pounds. In Florida the record is smaller but in the teens. This guy was all of about two pounds. He fought like a four or five pound largemouth. They’re smart too. They don’t run and jump like a bass. They head sideways, fast, and head right for the weeds when you hook them. Badass fish. Never eaten one but I hear they taste delicious. Fabulous canal fishing trips in the Miami canal system specifically for these highly sought after sport fish abound, the Peacocks have taken over there. Here I catch one maybe every fourth fish. Biggest I’ve caught was a four pounder and whoa did he put me through the ringer on 6-lb test. They spot on the tail is one of their defenses/camouflage, as it appears as an eye to other fish.

Enjoy this beautiful animal.

I’m very familiar with the Peacock Bass and would see numerous people fishing for them in the Miami area. Personally I’m a Saltwater fisherman and prefer Snook fishing. It’s also one of the best tasting fish Imo that compares to Grouper. CL

 

[Keffka]

I don't recall thinking there's a sweet spot for flower. In nature it's only 12/12 for one day.

I tend to run mine 11.5/12.5 or 11/13 since I dont have to worry about not hitting the DLI during light hours in the sun.

I sprout under 12/12 for the first 14 days above ground. Then I go 16/8 for 2-3 weeks, 18/6 for 2-3 weeks then 13/11 for flower flip, after 1-2 weeks I drop to 12/12, then 2-3 weeks after that 11/13.

Goes up like spring comes down like fall

 

[Jon]

I don't recall thinking there's a sweet spot for flower. In nature it's only 12/12 for one day.

I tend to run mine 11.5/12.5 or 11/13 since I dont have to worry about not hitting the DLI during light hours in the sun.

A conversation we had when I did my first outdoor grow and was trying to figure out when was safe to put outside. The solstice discussion if you recall. That’s where I got the impression, right or wrong. Regardless it’s irrelevant. They flower at 12/12 indoors without fail, and 18/6 to 12/12 works perfectly. I ain’t quibbling over a half hour of light.

 

[Jon]

Suddenly our clone has a legit flat canopy. Yay.

 

[Gee64]

Thats a great canopy on a fine looking plant Jon Nice work!

 

[Jon]

The only trepidation I have at the moment with the Geo girls is that in half an hour they change from 20-4 to 18-6. As I didn’t get anything I’d call a definitive answer from anyone here, nor could I find a definitive answer on my own, I am going with instinct. I would argue my instincts with these plants is pretty solid. Those who watch me but think I know nothing and just get lucky (you know there’s a few of you, lol) - well, maybe. Maybe not. I don’t feel the need to defend myself there. But I trust my instincts.

In this case they’re telling me my worry is much ado about nothing. There will not be an issue jumping to 18/6 from 20/4. It’s far away from what they would recognize as flower time, and the argument that ANY change will signal them is just silly.

I went with it and it begins shortly. I guess if my plant turn orange and wilt and instantly go hermie and grow three heads I will gleefully tell you how wrong I was.

 

[Jon]

Strawberry Goriila
Selective Defoliation

Here’s our girl tonight after a selective defol session. It’s hard to see maybe, but one thing I do as the main colas grow up and attain length is to take the blocking fans on the interior of the ring off each. I leave any that are to the side or the outside, or can be moved without cutting, but the ones dead center on the stalk that block the bud sites growing underneath get removed. This keeps light directly on the your money bud sites the length of the main colas.

I have done very minimal adjusting to any colas height with these. This plant is highly cooperative (we like those, lol) and is pretty much naturally staying this even, with a couple minor exceptions with 1/4 inch pull downs maybe. Minor expression of dominance at this point.

I have done hardly any defol in the center. First I want the dominant little center shoots to show themselves and rise from the leaves. By then I can do a final pick and choose run on what to keep and what to chop. With this middle I’m likely to chop very little and keep most of it, as the center is bare under the leaves and the shoots all form a sort of inner ring which appears will all grow up at about the same rate. Again, cooperative plant.

Here’s above, a side shot, and an attempt at a shot to show you the interior leaf defol on the colas. Oh yeah, lol. I also took the non-dominant first node branch entirely. Last picture.

 

[Azimuth]

The only trepidation I have at the moment with the Geo girls is that in half an hour they change from 20-4 to 18-6. As I didn’t get anything I’d call a definitive answer from anyone here, nor could I find a definitive answer on my own, I am going with instinct. I would argue my instincts with these plants is pretty solid. Those who watch me but think I know nothing and just get lucky (you know there’s a few of you, lol) - well, maybe. Maybe not. I don’t feel the need to defend myself there. But I trust my instincts.

In this case they’re telling me my worry is much ado about nothing. There will not be an issue jumping to 18/6 from 20/4. It’s far away from what they would recognize as flower time, and the argument that ANY change will signal them is just silly.

I went with it and it begins shortly. I guess if my plant turn orange and wilt and instantly go hermie and grow three heads I will gleefully tell you how wrong I was.

I think you're right. With the caveat that I don't grow outdoors, I think there is a significant difference between the effect of a minimal light change indoor vs outdoor. Maybe Shed is right about the flip to flower beginning on the summer solstice with the most minimal reduction in light hours. Outdoors.

But that's not what we're talking about. This is an indoor, one time change, not a gradual and consistent degradation in light. You're doing it in one step and then leaving it to be the new normal. And, as you said, you are far from even the 12/12 commonly used as the indoor standard setting.

Maybe if you did it mimicking nature over a period of a month or so the plant may begin to get the message that fall is coming, but with a one time, step change indoors I think it won't miss a beat.

 

[Azimuth]

It’s hard to see maybe, but one thing I do as the main colas grow up and attain length is to take the blocking fans on the interior of the ring off each. I leave any that are to the side or the outside, or can be moved without cutting, but the ones dead center on the stalk that block the bud sites growing underneath get removed. This keeps light directly on the your money bud sites the length of the main colas.

I wonder if there is an actual science behind this common practice. The plant is pretty good at translocating things around its structure as needed and does so regularly. In nature the "fans shading bud sites" do not naturally fall away to allow more bud growth but rather continue to act as solar panels gathering more light than the smaller leaves on the buds themselves would be able to.

I know it's common practice and makes us feel like we are helping, but I wonder if there is actually anything to it.

 

[Gee64]

The only trepidation I have at the moment with the Geo girls is that in half an hour they change from 20-4 to 18-6. As I didn’t get anything I’d call a definitive answer from anyone here, nor could I find a definitive answer on my own, I am going with instinct. I would argue my instincts with these plants is pretty solid. Those who watch me but think I know nothing and just get lucky (you know there’s a few of you, lol) - well, maybe. Maybe not. I don’t feel the need to defend myself there. But I trust my instincts.

In this case they’re telling me my worry is much ado about nothing. There will not be an issue jumping to 18/6 from 20/4. It’s far away from what they would recognize as flower time, and the argument that ANY change will signal them is just silly.

I went with it and it begins shortly. I guess if my plant turn orange and wilt and instantly go hermie and grow three heads I will gleefully tell you how wrong I was.

I have never tried this. It will be fun to watch. I would clone the $hit out of a 3 headed monster!

 

[Gee64]

I wonder if there is an actual science behind this common practice. The plant is pretty good at translocating things around its structure as needed and does so regularly. In nature the "fans shading bud sites" do not naturally fall away to allow more bud growth but rather continue to act as solar panels gathering more light than the smaller leaves on the buds themselves would be able to.

I know it's common practice and makes us feel like we are helping, but I wonder if there is actually anything to it.

I think its all in how you want to manipulate your plant. I have played with this a bit. When I bend a leaf down and open light to a branch attached to that leaf I get a faster growing branch than when I remove the leaf, but if I get a cola that just grows too fast and I need to slow it down I remove a few leaves. If I need to speed a cola up I leave the leaves but prune out a few bottom branches. There is something there but its a juggling act. I even made construction paper dunce caps to place over faster growing colas to let the others catch up. A couple hours a day for a few days works.