Jon's Final Florida Journal For Real

[Absorber]

A word on a sponsor…

I had a DM conversation with the Remo folks this evening about the scrog. They’ve been paying attention. And to my complete surprise and glee, this evening I got an unsolicited message offering nothing but help.

We agreed not to share parts of the topic only because they’re irrelevant and may only inspire argument. But the one part they pointed out (which they are 100% correct about!) I will share is that it appears I am overwatering the scrog a little bit. They very clearly explained it to me according to their eyes, and I agree wholeheartedly.

Simple fix, throttle down the watering frequency.

I post this to simply toss out a prop for a very responsive sponsor (which we all appreciate) who pays more attention to our grows sometimes than you may think. Unsolicited assistance from “the source” if you will is always appreciated and worthy of note in my book.

Thanks Remo!!!

Yes definitely nice unlike other sponsors that don't even respond to a private message i definitely know where my money will go in the future, to the sponsors with good business ethics.

 

[Jon]

Yes definitely nice unlike other sponsors that don't even respond to a private message i definitely know where my money will go in the future, to the sponsors with good business ethics.

One of the coolest things I learned from that conversation is that most of their people are 20 year veteran growers who came largely from the competition circuit! This is not a bunch of suits wearing white lab coats and making choices based only on numbers. I was impressed with that.

 

[ReservoirDog]

@Gee64, I have a working answer for an outdoor scrog for a 40 that would be pretty easy to rig and cheap as it gets. Your answer lies in PVC, and the shape of the scrog. A big round doesn’t work as it would have to be way too big in circumference and you’d never get to the middle. But a large plus sign shape would work great, eliminate the need to create any PVC curves, and house enough space for the bud while presenting a very almost natural way to do it. For a 40 you could place the pot in the dead center of the plus sign. You quad her out at whatever node you want to set as the height of the scrog. The screens consist of four 3’x6’ (or so) rectangular panels that can be made like a standard DIY PVC screen you’ve seen a million times. You make these panels and you wait on making the leg supports for the corners until you figure the height of the scrog. Once you know that, you cut the legs to size and they support the screens under your four corners. You set these four panels every 90 degrees off the center and use your quad as the guide to target them. Then fill each screen with a quarter of the quad. The size of the panels means you have easy access to all, the space in between the legs of the plus IS that access as well as to the plant, and each screen is manageable. The total square footage combined would support a 40s worth of buds.

That’s my plan and I’m sticking to it.

Lol.

I've seen that once before. Also, the same guy had a cool star of David-shaped one too. Bad news: The guy was actually crazy, and I never saw plants in them. Was a weird quick drive-by, years ago, so far from cold beer all I could do was keep looking at the door. Not proud. But it was like a scene in a movie, a Quentin Tarantino-Jon Waters joint production. In my defence, my eyelids were sweaty. Yeah, but see sweaty eyelids are my spidey-sense... or maybe an unmistakable, clear sign that I'm an ungracious asshole. Indeed I expect to find out here, finally, pretty quick, actually.

I think it's a great idea. You got me thinking of those European fort designs from the days of lance, arrow and early cannon. Pointy, spikey, architect-designed kill-zones. A cross is nice and simple though, as you say. Should work pretty good on a big girl.

 

[Jon]

I've seen that once before. Also, the same guy had a cool star of David-shaped one too. Bad news: The guy was actually crazy, and I never saw plants in them. Was a weird quick drive-by, years ago, so far from cold beer all I could do was keep looking at the door. Not proud. But it was like a scene in a movie, a Quentin Tarantino-Jon Waters joint production. In my defence, my eyelids were sweaty. Yeah, but see sweaty eyelids are my spidey-sense... or maybe an unmistakable, clear sign that I'm an ungracious asshole. Indeed I expect to find out here, finally, pretty quick, actually.

I think it's a great idea. You got me thinking of those European fort designs from the days of lance, arrow and early cannon. Pointy, spikey, architect-designed kill-zones. A cross is nice and simple though, as you say. Should work pretty good on a big girl.

Awesome and all over the map post. Love it. And sorry @ReservoirDog, if that’s you being an asshole, don’t think you hit the mark. Sounded pretty cool to me. Try harder.

 

[Jon]

@ViparSpectra Tent
State of the Scrog

Well, we are slowly filling up more and more, and I can go a few more days as budlets are imminent and that’s when we stop spreading. So much for the fill the screen before the stretch dream, lol.

I’m going to throttle back the frequency of feed a bit and let these guys dry out a little per my conversation with @Remo Nutrients last night where we agreed I’ve been a bit heavy handed with the watering.

They both look pretty healthy though. The Cherry Pie is an odd customer. I’d like to see this plant untrained.

Here’s this morning.

This last picture is the central split of the main on the Cherry Pie. Look how far I had to spread it and how thick the stems are. That was super hard and I had to be super patient. They were already sticking up above the screen pretty significantly when I began to bend them. It took three days to get these horizontal. I’m still worried they’re pulled too tight and going to split at some point……

 

[Azimuth]

but the broad brush “macro” for the “microbes” probably isn’t all a waste?

No, not all. I'm just saying that microbes are all around us and will compete with
each other for battleground space so you likely don't need special ones from someplace else that likely won't make it long term in your environment anyway. Like @Gee64 I get most of mine from my worm bin and I didn't put any in there to start. Well, I probably did when I started it with wild caught worms. I'm sure some hitchhiked a ride on/in the worms themselves.

Think of how we make LAB (not that you'd know ) . We put out a carbohydrate liquid in the open air and the various microbes in your environment populate it. Then we isolate the ones we want by oversaturating our collection liquid with milk so that the ones we want are happy and outcompete everything else. We don't need to buy those microbes as they're all floating around in the air. But only the ones that have adapted to your conditions. Those that thrive in the arctic won't last very long where you are, nor would those around you do very well, or last very long, in say, a desert environment.

but 18/6 is still so far from 12/12 I would think it would be fine. That two hour bump from 20/4 will more likely make them happier, yes?

It's more like 10.5 hours of darkness that's the actual number. Most of us use 12 just to be safe, so you won't be triggering any move toward flower with anything north of that.

It took three days to get these horizontal. I’m still worried they’re pulled too tight and going to split at some point……

Try Supercropping the branch stem just a tad away from the joint. That will relieve a bunch of pressure right at the joint itself. It will also give you a "knuckle" which is supposed to increase the flow of water and nutrients to the colas at the end of the line. Win/win.

 

[Jon]

No, not all. I'm just saying that microbes are all around us and will compete with
each other for battleground space so you likely don't need special ones from someplace else that likely won't make it long term in your environment anyway. Like @Gee64 I get most of mine from my worm bin and I didn't put any in there to start. Well, I probably did when I started it with wild caught worms. I'm sure some hitchhiked a ride on/in the worms themselves.

Think of how we make LAB (not that you'd know ) . We put out a carbohydrate liquid in the open air and the various microbes in your environment populate it. Then we isolate the ones we want by oversaturating our collection liquid with milk so that the ones we want are happy and outcompete everything else. We don't need to buy those microbes as they're all floating around in the air. But only the ones that have adapted to your conditions. Those that thrive in the arctic won't last very long where you are, nor would those around you do very well, or last very long, in say, a desert environment.


It's more like 10.5 hours of darkness that's the actual number. Most of us use 12 just to be safe, so you won't be triggering any move toward flower with anything north of that.


Try Supercropping the branch stem just a tad away from the joint. That will relieve a bunch of pressure right at the joint itself. It will also give you a "knuckle" which is supposed to increase the flow of water and nutrients to the colas at the end of the line. Win/win.

Damn @Azimuth, you’re on fire this morning. Thanks, that’s a lot that’s great stuff. So a couple things…

- supercropping the branch north of the node is a fabulous idea. From just a physics point of view of course it would relieve pressure. The branch is challenging but it certainly can be done. I thought I had basically done that but I did not go far enough in my pinching and such to break the outer hull. I get it and know how to do it. Good call.
- 10.5 eh? You said that with a lot of confidence. I’ve never heard it before and have had others (Shed) disseminate to me why it’s 12 and why that works. He also says anything north of 12 no worries. I’ve been on his train in that regard and @Emilya Green tells me much of the same info. That’s two growers who arguably know their stuff. So the 10.5. Where do you get that and can you go a bit deeper on that please?
- on worms - I heard you the other day that it’s a certain type of worm that’s best, some red worm. I fish here often with night crawlers which are sourced from Canada. Would it be possible and have any value to start a worm farm with these worms? If so I can easily learn how. Also, is the medium they come in, the little plastic tin of worms in basically worm poop (I think?) worth keeping for my plants? Like to use as a top dress with the Geo girls maybe?

Thanks Azi. You da man.

 

[Jon]

Sunday Off Topic

Any fisherman out there? Do you like badass fish who are gorgeous and pound for pound outfight everything in Florida except maybe a tarpon?

Say hello to the Peacock Bass. Not really a bass. A cichlid. Native to South America where they grow to 30+ pounds. In Florida the record is smaller but in the teens. This guy was all of about two pounds. He fought like a four or five pound largemouth. They’re smart too. They don’t run and jump like a bass. They head sideways, fast, and head right for the weeds when you hook them. Badass fish. Never eaten one but I hear they taste delicious. Fabulous canal fishing trips in the Miami canal system specifically for these highly sought after sport fish abound, the Peacocks have taken over there. Here I catch one maybe every fourth fish. Biggest I’ve caught was a four pounder and whoa did he put me through the ringer on 6-lb test. They spot on the tail is one of their defenses/camouflage, as it appears as an eye to other fish.

Enjoy this beautiful animal.

 

[Azimuth]

- supercropping the branch north of the node is a fabulous idea. From just a physics point of view of course it would relieve pressure. The branch is challenging but it certainly can be done. I thought I had basically done that but I did not go far enough in my pinching and such to break the outer hull. I get it and know how to do it. Good call.

I've broken too many stems to use just my fingers anymore. They way i do it now is to bend the stem around a round cylinder, kind of rolling it back and forth until I feel some give. For really small stems, like those on leaves that I want to move out of the way in flower, I use the cap from a barrel pen, sometimes even just the part that you'd stick over your shirt pocket to carry it around.

After that I usually weigh it down with a light fishing weight otherwise it'll want to pop back up, though your scrog net will serve that purpose.

- 10.5 eh? You said that with a lot of confidence. I’ve never heard it before and have had others (Shed) disseminate to me why it’s 12 and why that works. He also says anything north of 12 no worries. I’ve been on his train in that regard and @Emilya Green tells me much of the same info. That’s two growers who arguably know their stuff. So the 10.5. Where do you get that and can you go a bit deeper on that please?

10.5 is a reasonable average across all types of canna, but certainly sativa's have evolved differently from indica's. But as I said, most of us use the 12 hour thing to build in a bit of a cushion. I haven't heard of a strain that needs more than that, and the vast majority need less.

More light could mean more bud so it might be worth experimenting to see how far one could push it, but to do that you risk hermies or maybe even revegging, and nobody wants that. Probably have to try it on a throwaway plant in an isolated tent so that seems like an experiment no one wants to try.

- on worms - I heard you the other day that it’s a certain type of worm that’s best, some red worm. I fish here often with night crawlers which are sourced from Canada. Would it be possible and have any value to start a worm farm with these worms? If so I can easily learn how. Also, is the medium they come in, the little plastic tin of worms in basically worm poop (I think?) worth keeping for my plants? Like to use as a top dress with the Geo girls maybe?

Red wrigglers are also sold for fishing because they squirm all over the place and can be better at attracting fish because of it. But, they are found in leaf litter, breaking down organic matter in the process and those are the types of worms we want because we want the organic matter we feed them to get the nutrient goodies they contain, broken down and available to the plants.

Plus, most of our worm bins are rather shallow, like less than 12" or so. Nighcrawlers are different in that they carve out a single, deep burrow in the soil. Good for ground aeration, but not much on the nutrient processing angle. Plus, most worm bins aren't deep enough to be an ideal environment for them. When worms get unhappy they migrate. But without moisture they dry out and die really quickly.

If things get too hostile in the bin due to temperatures or pH conditions, one can wake up to thousands of dead, dried up worms on the floor as they tried to escape. Not pretty.

The castings you have from the worms you purchase can definitely be used and they'll add good microbes to your soil, but the castings won't be as nutritious and diverse as those that consume an organic diet.

 

[Azimuth]

Sunday Off Topic

Any fisherman out there? Do you like badass fish who are gorgeous and pound for pound outfight everything in Florida except maybe a tarpon?

Say hello to the Peacock Bass. Not really a bass. A cichlid. Native to South America where they grow to 30+ pounds. In Florida the record is smaller but in the teens. This guy was all of about two pounds. He fought like a four or five pound largemouth. They’re smart too. They don’t run and jump like a bass. They head sideways, fast, and head right for the weeds when you hook them. Badass fish. Never eaten one but I hear they taste delicious. Fabulous canal fishing trips in the Miami canal system specifically for these highly sought after sport fish abound, the Peacocks have taken over there. Here I catch one maybe every fourth fish. Biggest I’ve caught was a four pounder and whoa did he put me through the ringer on 6-lb test. They spot on the tail is one of their defenses/camouflage, as it appears as an eye to other fish.

Enjoy this beautiful animal.

And that would be a great thing to feed your worms once you get your worm bin established.

 

[con]

Sunday Off Topic

Any fisherman out there? Do you like badass fish who are gorgeous and pound for pound outfight everything in Florida except maybe a tarpon?

Say hello to the Peacock Bass. Not really a bass. A cichlid. Native to South America where they grow to 30+ pounds. In Florida the record is smaller but in the teens. This guy was all of about two pounds. He fought like a four or five pound largemouth. They’re smart too. They don’t run and jump like a bass. They head sideways, fast, and head right for the weeds when you hook them. Badass fish. Never eaten one but I hear they taste delicious. Fabulous canal fishing trips in the Miami canal system specifically for these highly sought after sport fish abound, the Peacocks have taken over there. Here I catch one maybe every fourth fish. Biggest I’ve caught was a four pounder and whoa did he put me through the ringer on 6-lb test. They spot on the tail is one of their defenses/camouflage, as it appears as an eye to other fish.

Enjoy this beautiful animal.

neat looking fish need to eat one now, i love fishing we've got some good ones here for eating & sport fishing all fresh water, this is a pickeral but some call it a walleye this one is about 4 lbs but a bit to big to eat the smaller ones are much tastier

 

[Jon]

On @Remo Nutrients
@InTheShed

As I said, Remo guys and I talked for a bit last night (thank you Remo) about my grow and about using Remo nutes in general. There was a lot of information presented. I have isolated the response they gave me that I believe provides the most amount of useful information for those using the system. This cut and paste is their exact response to a question I asked about using the system by the book vs varying from their chart.

As for switching to 8ml/G vs 10ml/G, there really is no hard line recommendation. A lot of growers really push their feeds hard. Athena recommends 2100-2800 ppm, and our line at full strength comes out around 1600 because it's loaded with chelates so you can run a lower feed. Will this be appropriate for ALL styles of growing and plant variants, not all, but most. EC/ppm issues usually happy with autos, short/trained plants, and anyone using amended soil blends like happy frog and ocean forest (and equivalent). The best mediums are the ones without nutrients so you can control your feeds. Of you soil/medium is loaded with amendedments, your plant will pull in whatever is the easiest to draw in, and leave everything, which compounds your soil ppm until week 5/6 when your feed strength hits the highest point. To go back to your question, we didn't formulate this to have exactly what you need at 10ml/G, we built it so that each product was being put into your solution at equal doses so that you can scale up and down based on your style of growing. If you have small plants, maybe you run 7 or 8 ml/G. If you're running misters and aquaponics, maybe you run 5. If you're running DWC, maybe 6 is ideal. When each product is doses evenly, you have the ability to scale up and down as needed.

Rather than lead anyone to mine, I’ll simply toss this out. Thoughts anyone?

 

[Keffka]

Exactly. Many actually have numerous strain specific soils going round and round.

Yep, Blue Thai soil in progress now

As soon as flower is over 2 will get chopped up, 2 set to the side. The chopped up will go back into a recycled mix and the set aside will be used to spawn life. I’ll pollinate some females next grow and really go to town.

I’m interested in seeding a branch, then letting the seeds hit the soil for a while before collecting them. Possibly try letting them sit in the set aside containers. Theoretically this should increase the biology on the seed.

 

[Jon]

Sour Lifesaver Clone
Transitional Geo Application and Watering

Here’s a pre watering shot of our girl from above. I can go to war with a canopy like this.
She’s a bit droopy as she needs water. Going forward I will not let her get as dry per my conversation with Gee on the topic. This is a Geo application day, and also per that same conversation with Gee, I am applying with an eye to flipping in two weeks and am using 1/2 Veg and 1/2 Bloom for the application. We will see what happens. I cry over this plant’s color I love it so much.

 

[Jon]

Yep, Blue Thai soil in progress now

As soon as flower is over 2 will get chopped up, 2 set to the side. The chopped up will go back into a recycled mix and the set aside will be used to spawn life. I’ll pollinate some females next grow and really go to town.

I’m interested in seeding a branch, then letting the seeds hit the soil for a while before collecting them. Possibly try letting them sit in the set aside containers. Theoretically this should increase the biology on the seed.

Wow. Your plants look so amazingly happy it’s insane. I could stare all day. The last part is a bit beyond me at the moment but I’ll catch up. Blue Thai soil. Wow.

 

[Keffka]

Wow. Your plants look so amazingly happy it’s insane. I could stare all day. The last part is a bit beyond me at the moment but I’ll catch up. Blue Thai soil. Wow.

Thanks @Jon ! I read about the seed stuff here starting in the last paragraph on the first image:

Proper Germination 3/4

• Keffka
• Mar 10, 2023

Increase yield, quality, health and resilience with proper germination

Proper Germination 4/4

• Keffka
• Mar 10, 2023

Increase yield, quality, health and resilience with proper germination

I haven’t seen a whole lot elsewhere about it but it caught my eye so I figured I give it a go. It’s from Teaming with Bacteria by Jeff Lowenfels

 

[Azimuth]

And that would be a great thing to feed your worms once you get your worm bin established.

I should add that red wigglers can be found in manure piles as well so, if you know any horse people....

 

[Gee64]

I always cure my seed buds to 62% in the jars. They last for years. Treat them like smoke. I never use paper towel for this exact reason. I also never soak my seeds first. Same reason. Seeds contain Mothers Milk. May as well use it.

 

[Keffka]

I always cure my seed buds to 62% in the jars. They last for years. Treat them like smoke. I never use paper towel for this exact reason. I also never soak my seeds first. Same reason. Seeds contain Mothers Milk. May as well use it.

I’ll just post the entire entry, sorry for doubling up @Jon but figured anyone following along not engaging would like to see it all.

Proper Germination 1/4

• Keffka
• Mar 10, 2023

Increase yield, quality, health and resilience with proper germination

Proper Germination 2/4

• Keffka
• Mar 10, 2023

Increase yield, quality, health and resilience with proper germination

Proper Germination 3/4

• Keffka
• Mar 10, 2023

Increase yield, quality, health and resilience with proper germination

Proper Germination 4/4

• Keffka
• Mar 10, 2023

Increase yield, quality, health and resilience with proper germination

 

[Jon]

Sour Lifesaver Clone
Transitional Geo Application and Watering

Here’s a pre watering shot of our girl from above. I can go to war with a canopy like this.
She’s a bit droopy as she needs water. Going forward I will not let her get as dry per my conversation with Gee on the topic. This is a Geo application day, and also per that same conversation with Gee, I am applying with an eye to flipping in two weeks and am using 1/2 Veg and 1/2 Bloom for the application. We will see what happens. I cry over this plant’s color I love it so much.

Here’s post watering and post cleanup of the interior crap that was low on the branches or was close to center and was not needed. This will improve air flow through the plant and eliminate flarf. Now I can let her go for a while. Next feed in two weeks and we will go to all Bloom nutes and flip.