Jon's Final Florida Journal For Real

[Jon]

Strawberry Gorilla
Good Learning Opportunity for New Auto Growers (hopefully, lol!)
So here we are approximately 18 hours past when I declared the plant to be in flower. I wasn’t 100% certain, and accept that as part of the auto game. And to my surprise, in that short a period of time, the plant has told me I was indeed correct. (Even a blind pig gets an acorn sometimes…lmao)

When your auto is definitely switching over, there are some rather obvious tells once you know them.

One is that your emerging sets of leaves will begin to be very thin upon emerging, and the difference will be obvious. It looks like this:

IMG_2268.jpeg

• Jon
• Sep 25, 2023

Another is that you will almost immediately begin to see these at the nodes, which you didn’t have like this before flower:

IMG_2267.jpeg

• Jon
• Sep 25, 2023

And shortly, a quickie with this girl, you will start to see the very beginning of your buds, exactly where they are supposed to be. Here’s an example of that:

IMG_2269.jpeg

• Jon
• Sep 25, 2023

Finally, this one is hard probably for you guys to tell, but it wouldn’t be were you intimately involved with her as I am. Her stretch has begun.

IMG_2270.jpeg

• Jon
• Sep 25, 2023

There’s my take on it for what it’s worth!

 

[Gee64]

Good stuff Jon! I'm collecting auto knowledge. I'm not as interested in the type of buzz you get from the different strains, I'm more interested in their beauty as show flowers.

From what I have seen, photo's can't compete with autos in a beauty pageant. I want them outdoors in my flower garden and on my deck. This is great info. Thank You

Question: When growing autos do you go to a 12/12 cycle or is it better to stay at 18/6?

 

[Jon]

Wow Jon you got a lot going on! First I gotta say that your scrog-to-be lady is a gorgeous plant. Beautiful structure.

As for your experiment I say run it but only if you have a way to feed that much plant all the way through to the end. The more foliage the more food needed.

A 7 gallon pot won't be enough in my opinion unless you can feed it.

If you want an example of success I can give you this.... I built a 2200 gallon pot outside in my yard with excellent orientation for sun coverage. I filled it with my own LOS and planted a hybrid I made of a very chunky stinky colorful Rose Kush Indica crossed with a very branchy Cinderella 99 male that was of perfect Christmas tree structure, very similar to the Roses perfect Christmas tree structure but Rosie was more of a fat bottomed girl.

I topped the plant above node 4 and removed node 1, leaving 6 branches. I then scrogged her out with the bottom of 2 nets at 6.5 ft off the ground and net #2 at 7.5 feet above the ground. The final plant was 9 feet wide by 9 feet wide and 9 feet tall. You could walk underneath with only 6 boughs to look put for. So it was a 9 x 9 canopy but only 18 inches thick. A scroglipop.

At the outer edges I let branches grow around the 8 x 8 scrog net. I ended up with 29 tops above the nets and everything below lollipopped out.

I had about 10 pounds of foliage stripped that my worm farm ate over the winter. The final tally was 3 pounds 5 grams of only grade A bud. All lesser bud was removed as it got lost under the canopy. Zero larf.

I tell you all this so you know what was up top because underneath the soil the roots filled the entire planter. The trunk was as big as one of your legs is around in the picture, no BS.

So it took 2200 gallons of high grade soil fully mineralized as per Rev's recipe to grow a 3lb scrog with water only. Could I have done it in a smaller pot? likely but you now get the idea of what is required to go bigger.

I highly endorse that you try your experiment but the only way I can see getting a plant that big in a pot that small is with synthetics or tons of teas so be ready for that and pay it forwards to the pot. Don't let it become deficient or you won't be able to catch up and you will lose all your leaves by the time stretch is over.

It will need a liquid feeding every watering, whether organic or synthetic.

As for the discussion on UV and IR, I actually just bought a UV/IR bar and did a fair bit of research prior to buying it. Oddly enough there isn't a lot of info out there unless you get into very scientific stuff but I perservered and this was my conclusions...

As Mel said, UV is what gives you sunburn and trichomes are the plants sunscreen.

Thats pretty straight foreward stuff but you can easily give the plant too much UV and sunburn it before it has enough trichomes to sunscreen itself so it works best to use it at the high noon part of your light cycle and only once frost has naturally started or else there is no sunscreen.

Start it out at 15 minutes and as frost thickens, slowly increase it in both directions from noon until right before harvest you are using the UV for maximum 2 hours. Just like starting on your tan in the spring to be a bronze god by late summer. You can't just run out into 100 degrees for 8 hours in a speedo without detriment, you need to start out slowly.

UV also breaks things down and more will degrade your trichomes, then burn your plant. You can only expose a plant to a certain amount over its entire life before damage outweighs profit.

IR is more interesting. My take was that its more of an indica thing. At least thats where I see its biggest benefit, but I haven't tried it, my knowledge is purely theory and could be totally wrong.

When a plant is exposed to IR it doesn't get any photosynthetic value from it but it still feels its warmth, much like sitting in the shade on a hot day.

It actually invokes what is termed as a "shade response" from the plant, so the plant, thinking its in the shade, grows taller searching for the light it can sense and feel is there, but not directly to power photosynthesis.

It makes plants taller thus increasing mass that will eventually hold trichomes. More plant equals more trichome space. Then once its big you switch to UV and build the trichomes. It also invokes lankiness.

So I went with a bar that has both but can be independantly toggled on or off.

OK break time, my thumb is sore

Oh and yes, if you dust your entire rootball in myco at uppotting it will do better than not. I have done many side-by-sides with clones. It is better every time in organics regardless of strain. Myco is expensive because it works.

As usual @Gee64, you far exceed any realistic expectations, and thank you. And you’ll like my response I think.

1. I have already come to the same conclusion ((with (@InTheShed)’s help)) about the pot size as it relates to the proposed experiment. I am not doing it. If they make it up they can still function exactly the same way. But to go horizontal first just costs me lots of time. I’m going see what gets there and chop below. Classic scrog style.

2. Yeah, my boy knows his stuff, eh? She has the nicest structure of any plant I’ve ever grown. I’m beyond impressed. And so far she’s really healthy!

3. I know light 1000x better than myco. I agree with every word you wrote. It is likely, given the lack of available information, that we read many of the same articles. I have other info and questions on this topic for you but some include stuff about my non-sponsored light, and although those rules have relaxed a bit, it’s still too involved to be appropriate. I’ll send you a DM?

4. So I did okay with the uppotting, and more importantly, did okay with my thought processes there?

5.

 

[Jon]

Good stuff Jon! I'm collecting auto knowledge. I'm not as interested in the type of buzz you get from the different strains, I'm more interested in their beauty as show flowers.

From what I have seen, photo's can't compete with autos in a beauty pageant. I want them outdoors in my flower garden and on my deck. This is great info. Thank You

Question: When growing autos do you go to a 12/12 cycle or is it better to stay at 18/6?

Thanks @Gee64!

Autos and getting them to be show pieces depends very much on the hours of light they get. @Chuckeye grows some showpiece autos, I have grown a few, and there are others. I’m pretty confident they will all tell you what I’m going to. More hours of light than you are talking about is key. Imho.

I run them 24/0 until I see they are changing. At that point they go to 20/4. Does that sometimes exceed normal DLI (if that’s your thing)? Yes. It’s okay. Mine will sometimes droop before 20 hours. Somehow (this is esoteric, lol), they seem to store it. The next day they’ve exploded again. Coco or soil.

You will definitely have smaller autos at finish growing as you do organically. They’ll be as good of quality as any photo you’ve ever grown though. Betcha even you won’t be able to tell the difference in a side by side blindfolded test. The genetics really have come that far.

Check out the breeders projected yield for autos in their seed marketing as you look around. Most will have much higher yield numbers indoors. This is entirely due to the hours of light they can get there.

Regardless, you’ll have show autos just cuz how you grow. Size and yield are irrelevant to a plant being a show plant. And frankly, if you believe that, and if you want little conversation show plants that will give you 3-8 ounces depending on the strain, then going 12/12 outside might work well for you. The only difference is size. That might be good for porch show plants, idk.

Also - please do not use threes. Your way, you need at least fives for a proper auto with root space. I’d go 7s at least. Flower time is not dissimilar to photos. The roots will fill a 7 easy.

There’s a few things that may help.

 

[Gee64]

As usual @Gee64, you far exceed any realistic expectations, and thank you. And you’ll like my response I think.

1. I have already come to the same conclusion ((with (@InTheShed)’s help)) about the pot size as it relates to the proposed experiment. I am not doing it. If they make it up they can still function exactly the same way. But to go horizontal first just costs me lots of time. I’m going see what gets there and chop below. Classic scrog style.

2. Yeah, my boy knows his stuff, eh? She has the nicest structure of any plant I’ve ever grown. I’m beyond impressed. And so far she’s really healthy!

3. I know light 1000x better than myco. I agree with every word you wrote. It is likely, given the lack of available information, that we read many of the same articles. I have other info and questions on this topic for you but some include stuff about my non-sponsored light, and although those rules have relaxed a bit, it’s still too involved to be appropriate. I’ll send you a DM?

4. So I did okay with the uppotting, and more importantly, did okay with my thought processes there?

5.

I think you did Jon. Too much foliage indoors is really hard to manage organically. It's why I grow 4 plants in my tent, but outdoors in the ground bigger is better.

4 plants each in 10 gallon pots still gives me 28 colas so I go that route.

I look foreward to a light convo, I don't know that much about it so I just go with the most of the best spectrum I can get and trust the technology. It's advancing too fast right now.

I got 6 years out of my last LED at 540 watts and had beautiful results so I can only hope for more from my 1000 watter I have now.

This is my 1st grow under it and in 2 weeks I will be going into flower. I would appreciate it if you stopped by for a gander and more importantly a critique often, its all new to me so I can use the experienced guidance. @Keffka I would like your coaching on the big-boy light too please.

 

[Jon]

Thanks @Gee64!

Autos and getting them to be show pieces depends very much on the hours of light they get. @Chuckeye grows some showpiece autos, I have grown a few, and there are others. I’m pretty confident they will all tell you what I’m going to. More hours of light than you are talking about is key. Imho.

I run them 24/0 until I see they are changing. At that point they go to 20/4. Does that sometimes exceed normal DLI (if that’s your thing)? Yes. It’s okay. Mine will sometimes droop before 20 hours. Somehow (this is esoteric, lol), they seem to store it. The next day they’ve exploded again. Coco or soil.

You will definitely have smaller autos at finish growing as you do organically. They’ll be as good of quality as any photo you’ve ever grown though. Betcha even you won’t be able to tell the difference in a side by side blindfolded test. The genetics really have come that far.

Check out the breeders projected yield for autos in their seed marketing as you look around. Most will have much higher yield numbers indoors. This is entirely due to the hours of light they can get there.

Regardless, you’ll have show autos just cuz how you grow. Size and yield are irrelevant to a plant being a show plant. And frankly, if you believe that, and if you want little conversation show plants that will give you 3-8 ounces depending on the strain, then going 12/12 outside might work well for you. The only difference is size. That might be good for porch show plants, idk.

Also - please do not use threes. Your way, you need at least fives for a proper auto with root space. I’d go 7s at least. Flower time is not dissimilar to photos. The roots will fill a 7 easy.

There’s a few things that may help.

Here’s something I think will especially make sense to you:

An auto is simply a photo with a fuse. Treat it as such. If you don’t like to train through the stretch (with autos it’s not the best idea imo), think in terms of having four weeks from sprout to do whatever you’re going to for training. But don’t fall into the “autos are different“ trap. They’re not. I uppot them every time. I train exactly as I would a photo. In every regard, topping, FIMming, supercropping, LST, HST - it is exactly the same with a 28 day fuse on average.

That’s how I think of them. Hope that’s helpful.

 

[Jon]

I think you did Jon. Too much foliage indoors is really hard to manage organically. It's why I grow 4 plants in my tent, but outdoors in the ground bigger is better.

4 plants each in 10 gallon pots still gives me 28 colas so I go that route.

I look foreward to a light convo, I don't know that much about it so I just go with the most of the best spectrum I can get and trust the technology. It's advancing too fast right now.

I got 6 years out of my last LED at 540 watts and had beautiful results so I can only hope for more from my 1000 watter I have now.

This is my 1st grow under it and in 2 weeks I will be going into flower. I would appreciate it if you stopped by for a gander and more importantly a critique often, its all new to me so I can use the experienced guidance. @Keffka I would like your coaching on the big-boy light too please.

I’m honored and will do my best. Many here know more than me but I’m no slouch. Thanks very much. And of course I’ll stop by, I’ve frankly and honestly been a little intimidated. That’s as honest as I can be. But I’ll get over myself!

 

[Gee64]

Hey heres a tidbit for you on uppotting organically. When I harvest a plant I let the pot with the stump inn it sit for 2 months and dry out. That puts the microbes into dormancy and causes the myco to spore out and die. When I uppot I use some of that soil in my uppot mix as well as add fresh myco. In about 10 days at perfect moisture the whole uppotted area jumps to life and roots grow really well.

 

[Keffka]

I see this too. You just have to be gentle. Taking 15 extra minute uppotting saves a week of recovery.

Also agreed with @Jon uppoting statement. I covered it in my current journal. To be fair though, I had a very strong myco colony established. I aggressively transplanted out of fabric pots and topped my plants.. I even shook the root balls so I could shed loose dirt. Dropped them into their containers and an hour later they were already back to growing even after being topped and handled aggressively.

Transplant shock means you did something wrong or your timing is off.

 

[Jon]

Hey heres a tidbit for you on uppotting organically. When I harvest a plant I let the pot with the stump inn it sit for 2 months and dry out. That puts the microbes into dormancy and causes the myco to spore out and die. When I uppot I use some of that soil in my uppot mix as well as add fresh myco. In about 10 days at perfect moisture the whole uppotted area jumps to life and roots grow really well.

Thanks! That’s amazing, even I can do that starting this time!

 

[Jon]

Strawberry Gorilla
Reference Point Post
On Feeding @Remo Nutrients by the book

Week one of @Remo Nutrients feed chart for flowering begins today and the first feed was just now. I am going 100% by the Remo book, adding only CalMag plus Iron from Humboldt’s Secret, which is a requirement and is 2-0-0. I am at 5 ml/gallon with that and will stay there unless the plant tells me otherwise. I am measuring as carefully as possible. And let’s not have the Ph discussion, but I do it. I believe in coco it’s important in flower especially. This batch stabilized at 5.76.

The experiment here is what (again as @InTheShed has reminded me!) will happen to the plant in flower going very strictly by the Remo chart as directed. It is arguably the way anyone should begin with a new nute system, and I did not. Now we are, on all four autos. Not one has been off the book yet.

My perception is that they are amazing in veg. It’s flower that is the concern. Not sure how Shed feels about that one, perhaps he will chime in please?

There is the current status. For me more than you guys cuz it’s a record, lol. Nice to begin on a Monday.

 

[InTheShed]

I don't recall following any grows that were Remo start to finish. Otter's BIL uses them and I had a pic in the back of my head of his yellowing leaves in flower and made a note of it. Then when I was running low on the PB (and being flush with Remo and was considering them), I saw LKA's start to crisp in flower. That's when I decided to check out the numbers using their feed schedule and passed the info to LKA, who is no longer following the chart, having worked out one of his own.

 

[Jon]

Also agreed with @Jon uppoting statement. I covered it in my current journal. To be fair though, I had a very strong myco colony established. I aggressively transplanted out of fabric pots and topped my plants.. I even shook the root balls so I could shed loose dirt. Dropped them into their containers and an hour later they were already back to growing even after being topped and handled aggressively.

Transplant shock means you did something wrong or your timing is off.

We may have a different philosophies here @Keffka, let’s find out. It’s a cool little related sidebar. And then maybe you can please tell me why I’m wrong!

I always used to uppot as you do, sans established myco colony. I was using Sohum or Geo. I found I was getting significant lags in growth. In the organic equation, obviously an established myco colony would have likely solved this, but I didn’t know that yet.

So I thought maybe it was due to the roots being so tightly wound in a circle and stuff and that the lag was due to them loosening up into the new soil.

With that in mind, I decided to try uppotting early. Like, when the root ball will hold its shape for long enough to complete the transplant but would not last much longer.

Suddenly I had no lags or interruptions in growth and they always behaved exactly as this one is. Which is perfect.

So I adopted it and have done it that way ever since.

Thoughts?

 

[Jon]

I don't recall following any grows that were Remo start to finish. Otter's BIL uses them and I had a pic in the back of my head of his yellowing leaves in flower and made a note of it. Then when I was running low on the PB (and being flush with Remo) and was considering them, I saw LKA's start to crisp in flower. That's when I decided to check out the numbers using their feed schedule and passed the info to LKA, who is no longer following the chart, having worked out one of his own.

Which is the much better explanation for how this came about!!!

 

[Jon]

Which is the much better explanation for how this came about!!!

Btw Shed - as I’m mixing the batch, I’m looking at the numbers, and already I’m filled with trepidation. I know you’re right already. This is pure Guinea pig volunteer shit.

 

[Keffka]

We may have a different philosophies here @Keffka, let’s find out. It’s a cool little related sidebar. And then maybe you can please tell me why I’m wrong!

I always used to uppot as you do, sans established myco colony. I was using Sohum or Geo. I found I was getting significant lags in growth. In the organic equation, obviously an established myco colony would have likely solved this, but I didn’t know that yet.

So I thought maybe it was due to the roots being so tightly wound in a circle and stuff and that the lag was due to them loosening up into the new soil.

With that in mind, I decided to try uppotting early. Like, when the root ball will hold its shape for long enough to complete the transplant but would not last much longer.

Suddenly I had no lags or interruptions in growth and they always behaved exactly as this one is. Which is perfect.

So I adopted it and have done it that way ever since.

Thoughts?

I believe you’re correct in a way. The stress of being root bound is pretty intense for the plants. Not only is it intense and stressful but the plant has shifted its root growth once it’s bound. Since it can no longer send out feeder roots freely through the medium it starts rooting into itself. This is a whole hormonal process that occurs because the meristem cells have to be signaled by the plant to grow in a specific way.

So between shifting hormones and the stress of being root bound the plant takes a bit to adjust to its new environment.

 

[Jon]

Good stuff Jon! I'm collecting auto knowledge. I'm not as interested in the type of buzz you get from the different strains, I'm more interested in their beauty as show flowers.

From what I have seen, photo's can't compete with autos in a beauty pageant. I want them outdoors in my flower garden and on my deck. This is great info. Thank You

Question: When growing autos do you go to a 12/12 cycle or is it better to stay at 18/6?

Btw - generally if you want show pieces, the indica heavy ones will stay smaller, tighter, and have bigger, rounder, and often more colorful buds. Imo if show pieces are your goal and size is such that small is fine and maybe even preferable, you might be well served to begin with some indica heavy ones.

 

[Gee64]

Btw - generally if you want show pieces, the indica heavy ones will stay smaller, tighter, and have bigger, rounder, and often more colorful buds. Imo if show pieces are your goal and size is such that small is fine and maybe even preferable, you might be well served to begin with some indica heavy ones.

Thats good stuff. Will they get at least 3 feet tall from the soil?

 

[Gee64]

I believe you’re correct in a way. The stress of being root bound is pretty intense for the plants. Not only is it intense and stressful but the plant has shifted its root growth once it’s bound. Since it can no longer send out feeder roots freely through the medium it starts rooting into itself. This is a whole hormonal process that occurs because the meristem cells have to be signaled by the plant to grow in a specific way.

So between shifting hormones and the stress of being root bound the plant takes a bit to adjust to its new environment.

This is exactly why I put up with finicky watering to sprout right in the final pots. I don't use a veg soil and a flower soil, I only use 1 soil and its built for brix.

Then everything establishes only once.

Spikes and layers are all in there and top dressing begins in 14 days from sprout.

The 1st 2 weeks are all about myco, after that when it looks like the right time to throttle up I add a microbial tea, but I let myco start working 1st before cranking up the microbes.

Myco must always remain dominant in the system. It needs to be the boss.

 

[Bill284]

I agree. Tell that jerk to figure his own shit out.



For those of you who may be unfamiliar, and yes @Bill284, I’m going to publicly laud you -

This guy has helped more growers here than I am aware exist. Since I have known him, that has been the case despite a devastating fire that almost wiped him out (well documented). It has been the case despite that he is currently in danger of losing so much harvest that it again has a significant impact on his life in a negative way. The guy has been hanging on despite circumstances that far exceed what anyone would find emergency. And yet he NEVER stops trying to assist new and established growers. He NEVER stops going out of his way to seek out actively those who may need help. You will not find a more altruistic human being because they do not exist. There is not one thing in the world I would not do for this person if I could, he knows that, and I suspect I am far from the only person to feel this way. I call him Sensei for many reasons, not just because he’s a badass grower who has taught me and many others TONS.

Bill, whether he will admit it or not, could use a hand. He ain’t that great at asking for help.

I you man. You better take me up on something. Lmao!

What can I say to that.
Your support and love is all I need.
Your too too too kind.
And a wonderful wonderful person.
Thank you Jon.


Stay safe
Bill284