Jon's Final Florida Journal For Real

[Jon]

It’s on!!! Sour Lifesaver definitely at the screen! Four colas up!

I also found this picture of an earlier Watermelon Wedding Cake to show you guys how it kind of always has grown for me. Now that I’m smoking the first one harvested, I realize both were likely indica phenos. Neither plant looked this way nor would have had I trained differently. Just interesting. It’s heavier a buzz than usual.

 

[Jon]

It’s on!!! Sour Lifesaver definitely at the screen! Four colas up!

I also found this picture of an earlier Watermelon Wedding Cake to show you guys how it kind of always has grown for me. Now that I’m smoking the first one harvested, I realize both were likely indica phenos. Neither plant looked this way nor would have had I trained differently. Just interesting. It’s heavier a buzz than usual.

Oops. The WWC part should have gone in Sneak it In. Duh.

 

[Keffka]

The main question for me is where are they located. The differences in climate between Florida, California, and the Great Lakes region would probably have a huge impact. I'll see if I can dig the blog post up.

The climate is likely why I preferred the indoor to outdoor comparison. Being in Michigan, we’re severely limited by our climate, especially the last decade or so. We’ve had absurd amounts of rain, relentless overcast days, wild temperature swings, PM like crazy, etc. We’re also in a metro area so our air quality isn’t great either. Regardless it would be pretty difficult to be able to accurately compare the two, unless literally everything was the same, except for the light source.

Plus, as most of us know already, cannabis quality can be pretty subjective. High THC doesn’t necessarily mean good quality, and imbalanced terpenes can lead to odd tastes and smells. What I prefer may not be what the next person prefers.

I’ll take a look at the link you posted and see what it says, you always find interesting stuff.

 

[Keffka]

Thank you again. And thanks especially for the personal glimpse. We appreciate those here. Well, I do indoor mostly cuz I’m in a chair. So I’ll have to come up with some way to mix and store soil that I can handle. Small batches I suppose. So I suppose you reuse the soil and amend it? If so, how many runs can you get from one batch of say 4 7s worth of soil? (or pick a smallish volume) Three or four or a million? This is a challenging plunge and not nearly as easy as you make it sound by ten miles. You know this, right?

Typically when I mix everything up, it’s 48 gallons of useable soil. This soil can be rerun an infinite amount of times as long as I replenish the organic matter, minerals, and carbon. If you really want to make it special, you reuse the soil for the same strain repeatedly. This will allow the strains preferred microbes to colonize and will increase quality and yield. You’ll also be able to really dial in which amendments the plant prefers.

In your situation we could scale the soil quantities up or down with relative ease with a few tweaks to the recipes. The hardest part would be mixing the soil. A compost tumbler or cement mixer would likely be ideal that way the majority of the mixing is done by the machine. Currently I mix it up on a tarp then toss it in a 50 gallon Rubbermaid bin where I lightly water it and turn it every few days. The most important aspect is ensuring the soil is mixed thoroughly and stays moist. The less soil, the easier this would be to accomplish.

A lot of organic growing information will tell you to go with 10 gallon containers minimum. I’ve found 7 gallon containers to be the minimum size needed to go from seed. With a few spikes of some fertilizers or good EWC you can easily produce robust high quality yields.

If you go from clones you can go as low as 2 and 3 gallon containers with some heavy layering and spiking of dry nutrients like bone meal and blood meal.

If you wanna jump in right away while figuring everything out, Geoflora is a good organic line that will help you produce a nice harvest in a 3-5 gallon container.

Also, I do tend to forget how much of a learning curve organic can be lol.. It can seem really overwhelming at first, especially when we start talking amendments and biology. It’s a lot more involved than following a feeding chart at first, but eventually it’ll all click and feel natural.

How do you account for this? This strikes me as exactly the opposite of what I’d expect. I would assume the sun wins all battles, yield, taste, terps, all of it. You’re saying the exact opposite, except for yield, which is to be expected. When we both know that despite your nice LED words, the reality is it isn’t even close and never will be. So why on earth do you think LEDs would provide a better end product? (I don’t mean I don’t think your perception is accurate, I mean for real, do you have a theory on this?)

So beyond the quantity vs quality of light argument, there is also environment/climate. This is a huge factor on the quality of the plant. I posted it earlier but I live in Michigan so the environment hasn’t been ideal for cannabis growth for a while.

The temperature swings alone that we experience are enough to shock a plant and slow down the soil biology. Then there’s days of hot weather with no wind, and days of cold rain with high winds. We have overcast days, aggressive PM, bud rot happens constantly, thrips, spider mites, the list goes on and on. All of these things can greatly impact the plants health and force it to focus resources and energy that should be spent on flower and resin production.

Then there’s the soil itself. Is it in a container or in the ground? Has the soil been worked, mineralized and amended with cannabis in mind? Is it the same exact soil being used outside and inside? It typically is not. If it is then there’s a high likelihood the environment is impacting the plant. In my situation the soil the plant dug into was severely lacking in Calcium and sulfur. Calcium is one of, if not the most important nutrients cannabis uses. Sulfur also greatly enhances smells and flavors, so there again I’m not surprised the indoors won out.

 

[Jon]

Typically when I mix everything up, it’s 48 gallons of useable soil. This soil can be rerun an infinite amount of times as long as I replenish the organic matter, minerals, and carbon. If you really want to make it special, you reuse the soil for the same strain repeatedly. This will allow the strains preferred microbes to colonize and will increase quality and yield. You’ll also be able to really dial in which amendmentsthe plant prefers.

In your situation we could scale the soil quantities up or down with relative ease with a few tweaks to the recipes. The hardest part would be mixing the soil. A compost tumbler or cement mixer would likely be ideal that way the majority of the mixing is done by the machine. Currently I mix it up on a tarp then toss it in a 50 gallon Rubbermaid bin where I lightly water it and turn it every few days. The most important aspect is ensuring the soil is mixed thoroughly and stays moist. The less soil, the easier this would be to accomplish.

A lot of organic growing information will tell you to go with 10 gallon containers minimum. I’ve found 7 gallon containers to be the minimum size needed to go from seed. With a few spikes of some fertilizers or good EWC you can easily produce robust high quality yields.

If you go from clones you can go as low as 2 and 3 gallon containers with some heavy layering and spiking of dry nutrients like bone meal and blood meal.

If you wanna jump in right away while figuring everything out, Geoflora is a good organic line that will help you produce a nice harvest in a 3-5 gallon container.

Also, I do tend to forget how much of a learning curve organic can be lol.. It can seem really overwhelming at first, especially when we start talking amendments and biology. It’s a lot more involved than following a feeding chart at first, but eventually it’ll all click and feel natural.




So beyond the quantity vs quality of light argument, there is also environment/climate. This is a huge factor on the quality of the plant. I posted it earlier but I live in Michigan so the environment hasn’t been ideal for cannabis growth for a while.

The temperature swings alone that we experience are enough to shock a plant and slow down the soil biology. Then there’s days of hot weather with no wind, and days of cold rain with high winds. We have overcast days, aggressive PM, bud rot happens constantly, thrips, spider mites, the list goes on and on. All of these things can greatly impact the plants health and force it to focus resources and energy that should be spent on flower and resin production.

Then there’s the soil itself. Is it in a container or in the ground? Has the soil been worked, mineralized and amended with cannabis in mind? Is it the same exact soil being used outside and inside? It typically is not. If it is then there’s a high likelihood the environment is impacting the plant. In my situation the soil the plant dug into was severely lacking in Calcium and sulfur. Calcium is one of, if not the most important nutrients cannabis uses. Sulfur also greatly enhances smells and flavors, so there again I’m not surprised the indoors won out.

Damn @Keffka, thanks again. This is amazing. Between you and Gee I’m almost in sensory overload. So…yes, even I can mix small batches on a tarp, wet it, and keep it warm and wet wherever. That’s just a scale issue I can solve. And I’m with you 100% on the environmental also being a big factor. Between the consistency of light and that of environment, how could it be otherwise? (Meaning how could a tent NOT be better). So I get that part now too, least enough to move to the next lesson (lol). I really appreciate your continued help man. Thank you. Oh and my current grow has five plants in Geo. 3 are in half gallons as a fun experiment (never did the Solo grow, I got half gallon pots), one is in a 3, and the clone is in a 7 and big. All are FF OF with Geo, and every time I apply the Geo I water in with RGR. The pots were prepped for four days and wet before I dropped in the sprout, and I also added bokashi and frass to the soil. I understand now that this is “semi-organic”, and why. But for now this is what I can do. The clone is my masterpiece. It’s in the Final Florida journal if you’re interested. But yes, I’m on the semi train now!

 

[Azimuth]

The clone is my masterpiece. It’s in the Final Florida journal if you’re interested.

Isn't that where we are?

Now I'm confused.

 

[Jon]

So here’s my dilemma and my solution in the @ViparSpectra tent.

These girls are diametrically opposed. Lol. The Cherry Pie is indeed going nuts, as I thought it would. I topped her above four. There was barely enough to top. But the new shoots are intact and I made the cut. Why not just wait til tomorrow? Cuz it’s an auto. I feel it’s important to top your autos, however you’re gonna, as early as possible. Remember, the plant has a fuse. Not too many of us ever top once the stretch begins, and I share that view. As soon as humanly possible means like this. I saved a day. I want them all for my autos. So I top early.

Next issue - the screen. Now the CP is topped and that’s where I was gonna set the screen. I still am. But…..the Double Grape is an entire node behind the CP. Hmm…. Got it. After reading Gee’s assertion earlier (that I disagreed with), I also learned that my aversion to topping at node 3 is unfounded. And now, if I top the DG at 3, I have a nice quad right there. Then I simply raise her up to the screen to match the vertical height of the other one, and we can begin the screen work.

The reason I’m like this about it is cuz the goal is to fill the screen before the stretch. That’s easy with photos. Not so easy with autos. But it dramatically increases yield in my experience. Because if you fill THEN flip (phot) or fill before the stretch (auto), it’s the same equation. Your entire stretch will go into vertical growth above the screen. Your scrog colas will be big and taller than you’re used to if you train through the stretch and use that to finish filling the screen. You’ll get way less vertical growth. If you believe all the action in a scrog happens above the screen, imho this is a no brainer. Yet few of us do it that way. Why not?

But it’s hard with autos. You’re asking a lot in say, 28 or 33 days or whatever you luck out and get for veg time. Once the plant is in flower I never train anymore. So it all has to be done in veg. So I start as early as possible.

In this case that means taking the course of action I described and begin working a low screen tomorrow! At least both will be topped and at the screen at the same time. Betcha it still comes out 2/3 and 1/3 in terms of the buds of each plant.

Here’s the early as possible topping of the CP:

IMG_2177.jpeg

• Jon
• Sep 19, 2023

And here’s the DG and I try to show you the quad at node three, just like Gee and Keffka said it would be. This will be topped shortly and the screen installed and the DG raised. That’s all now stuff.

IMG_2176.jpeg

• Jon
• Sep 19, 2023

And here’s the two side by side. The difference between them is a lot more dramatic than it appears in the picture.

IMG_2178.jpeg

• Jon
• Sep 19, 2023

So I got work to do. Yay! This is the only chance I have of filling the screen pre-stretch (with these particular plants). Hope it works out. Now is when I begin to pray to the gods of time in the Ruderalis Palace in the hopes of more veg days. Lol!

 

[Jon]

Isn't that where we are?

Now I'm confused.

Damnit. Too many things at once. Sorry it’s in the other one. Sneak it In. Duh. Thanks.

 

[BeanTownFan420]

Nice and petit!

 

[Jon]

Damn @Keffka, thanks again. This is amazing. Between you and Gee I’m almost in sensory overload. So…yes, even I can mix small batches on a tarp, wet it, and keep it warm and wet wherever. That’s just a scale issue I can solve. And I’m with you 100% on the environmental also being a big factor. Between the consistency of light and that of environment, how could it be otherwise? (Meaning how could a tent NOT be better). So I get that part now too, least enough to move to the next lesson (lol). I really appreciate your continued help man. Thank you. Oh and my current grow has five plants in Geo. 3 are in half gallons as a fun experiment (never did the Solo grow, I got half gallon pots), one is in a 3, and the clone is in a 7 and big. All are FF OF with Geo, and every time I apply the Geo I water in with RGR. The pots were prepped for four days and wet before I dropped in the sprout, and I also added bokashi and frass to the soil. I understand now that this is “semi-organic”, and why. But for now this is what I can do. The clone is my masterpiece. It’s in the Final Florida journal if you’re interested. But yes, I’m on the semi train now!

Sorry @Keffka, I’m an idiot, it’s in the Sneak it in journal.

 

[Jon]

Nice and petit!

Yup! Thanks @BeanTownFan420 ! From little seeds sprout mighty oaks. If I fill the screen, low or not, I’ll have a nice end situation. Heh.

 

[Keffka]

Damn @Keffka, thanks again. This is amazing. Between you and Gee I’m almost in sensory overload.

No problem, the more people interested in organics, the better! I’m a big believer in this knowledge being something we are all taught as human beings. There’s plenty of pointless classes we make kids sit through. Knowing how to use the earth to provide for ourselves would be much more valuable than learning about some antiquated battle that has no meaning to modern humanity.

So…yes, even I can mix small batches on a tarp, wet it, and keep it warm and wet wherever. That’s just a scale issue I can solve.

Perfect! We can work with that pretty easily.

And I’m with you 100% on the environmental also being a big factor. Between the consistency of light and that of environment, how could it be otherwise? (Meaning how could a tent NOT be better). So I get that part now too, least enough to move to the next lesson (lol). I really appreciate your continued help man. Thank you.

Again, no problem at all! One of the benefits of sharing this path with others is more eyes and minds. You’re gonna see/experience/think of things that I won’t. You’ll have questions that push me out of my comfort zone. You’ll have data and observations to add, even anecdotal is valuable. It’s just as valuable to me as it is to you.

Oh and my current grow has five plants in Geo. 3 are in half gallons as a fun experiment (never did the Solo grow, I got half gallon pots), one is in a 3, and the clone is in a 7 and big. All are FF OF with Geo, and every time I apply the Geo I water in with RGR. The pots were prepped for four days and wet before I dropped in the sprout, and I also added bokashi and frass to the soil. I understand now that this is “semi-organic”, and why. But for now this is what I can do. The clone is my masterpiece. It’s in the Final Florida journal if you’re interested. But yes, I’m on the semi train now!

This is awesome! I’ll check it out. Bridging the gap is helpful especially since you’re coming from synthetics. It helps break the feed the plant mindset and guides your journey. Diving head first into organics can be disheartening, I’ve seen a lot of people try to make the transition and give up because they went straight to a subcool recipe without understanding what all of their amendments do.


Your excitement is palpable and contagious lol, I’m excited for you!

 

[Jon]

No problem, the more people interested in organics, the better! I’m a big believer in this knowledge being something we are all taught as human beings. There’s plenty of pointless classes we make kids sit through. Knowing how to use the earth to provide for ourselves would be much more valuable than learning about some antiquated battle that has no meaning to modern humanity.



Perfect! We can work with that pretty easily.



Again, no problem at all! One of the benefits of sharing this path with others is more eyes and minds. You’re gonna see/experience/think of things that I won’t. You’ll have questions that push me out of my comfort zone. You’ll have data and observations to add, even anecdotal is valuable. It’s just as valuable to me as it is to you.



This is awesome! I’ll check it out. Bridging the gap is helpful especially since you’re coming from synthetics. It helps break the feed the plant mindset and guides your journey. Diving head first into organics can be disheartening, I’ve seen a lot of people try to make the transition and give up because they went straight to a subcool recipe without understanding what all of their amendments do.


Your excitement is palpable and contagious lol, I’m excited for you!

Thanks! So I guess it is bridging the gap. Several times now I have had to take pause and remember the Geo are plain water. Also had to remember how to water soil. Lol. It definitely is a transition. And there’s SO much to know.

Yes, apparently everyone uses a variation on Subcools mix, even my pro grower in Oregon buddy. He’s exactly like you guys about organic (he’s REAL organic) and his weed tastes better than I have ever tasted.

 

[Jon]

Scrog Solution As Promised in the VS Tent
@ReservoirDog
@ViparSpectra

RD, you were asking me about the scrog and I gave you what I could. But sometimes a visual is better. This is how I handle those crappy nets when I’m too lazy to make a 2x4 screen with proper spacing for the holes. These are still
too big, but it’s tight at least. And the annoying hourglass gaps are eliminated along the walls. This is one way to “tighten it up,” as I suggested to you. The supports are just 2 pieces of PVC and one old tent pole all cut to size. It’s super easy and a way better reality if you’re stuck with these type nets. Specially in a smaller tent. Obviously the last ingredient is lots of duct tape. Lmao. This should work. They’re an inch and a half from the screen. Let’s scrog! Also a shot of the lower topping on the DG.

 

[Azimuth]

Damnit. Too many things at once. Sorry it’s in the other one. Sneak it In. Duh. Thanks.

Ha! Just breaking your chain (to mix metaphors).

Sometimes hard to keep up.

 

[Jon]

Environment Check
@ViparSpectra Tent

 

[Jon]

Sour Lifesaver Clone

Check out her beautiful middle way opening up for me. All that will make the screen easily. The internodal spacing on this plant is to die for.

 

[Jon]

Bubblegum Sherbet
Veg

 

[Jon]

Mountaintop Mint x M34
Veg

 

[Jon]

420h Closet
Strawberry Gorilla
Blackberry Moonrocks