Jon's Final Florida Journal For Real

[Jon]

Only to make it look like the one in the pic.

So @Gee64 - what’s the deal with VPD during lights out? Sorry for such a broad question but I don’t know how else to ask it!

 

[Azimuth]

i acciently ordered feminized seeds so i will grow them... its kinda lot of wait to order wher i coming from not so easy sadly

Why accidentally? Feminized seeds of a photoperiod plant will be easier for a new grower to deal with. I know they market autoflowers as a great beginner plant to learn on, but if you stress them early they'll flower as very small plants.

I can't tell you how many small auto grows olive seem. With a photoperiod you can grow it until the size you want and only then flip it into flower.

Big difference.

 

[Jon]

Why accidentally? Feminized seeds of a photoperiod plant will be easier for a new grower to deal with. I know they market autoflowers as a great beginner plant to learn on, but if you stress them early they'll flower as very small plants.

I can't tell you how many small auto grows olive seem. With a photoperiod you can grow it until the size you want and only then flip it into flower.

Big difference.

Hmm. Not sure I agree with that assessment, but whatever. There are lots of ways to mess up a photo that aren’t in play with autos. I think they both require equal attention, just different attention. But yeah, I’ve been trying to tell him how much he’ll love the control. Lol!

 

[rehabilitatora420]

Hmm. Not sure I agree with that assessment, but whatever. There are lots of ways to mess up a photo that aren’t in play with autos. I think they both require equal attention, just different attention. But yeah, I’ve been trying to tell him how much he’ll love the control. Lol!

i got u guys to guide me true <3 im sure i will do it what u think Jon 4 is good for the size i got?

 

[Azimuth]

Well, with an auto, if you stress it and it goes into flower while it's still young and small, that's it. You get what you get. With a photo period you can just extend the veg period to fix a problem. And, worst case you clone it and start over.

You're pretty well dialed on on your grows so you don't see the plethora of issues I've seen in new grower threads using autos. Maybe you need to get out more.

 

[Jon]

i got u guys to guide me true <3 im sure i will do it what u think Jon 4 is good for the size i got?

@rehabilitatora420 - I think you’re doing great for your first grow with a remote teacher in another country. Can’t tell you how good a move it was to bring your stuff here, and then to your own journal next time. I told you from the beginning I could only get you so far. You’ve learned a lot. Next time you’ll bring them home a lot greener, cuz now you have infinitely multiplied (and improved!) your resources. I learned every little bit I know here.

 

[Jon]

Well, with an auto, if you stress it and it goes into flower while it's still young and small, that's it. You get what you get. With a photo period you can just extend the veg period to fix a problem. And, worst case you clone it and start over.

You're pretty well dialed on on your grows so you don't see the plethora of issues I've seen in new grower threads using autos. Maybe you need to get out more.

So I’ve been told…lol. This is why I’ll never win any MOTM contest. I help folks a lot whenever I can in my own way, but my way isn’t necessarily the seek and destroy missions many of our members engage in. (That’s a compliment). Those are the guys who deserve the award.

 

[Gee64]

So @Gee64 - what’s the deal with VPD during lights out? Sorry for such a broad question but I don’t know how else to ask it!

Ok so plants do 1 thing in the light, and another in the dark. In the light the stomata are open and the atmosphere sucks water (loaded with nutes) from the earth, through the plant, and out the stomata, venting to atmosphere. While this is happening the process also lets CO2 in and the CO2 and the nutes in the water combine thru photosynthesis to form sugars. The plant takes the C from CO2, and expels the O2. Photosynthesis. Transpiration.

At night photosynthesis stops, so with no light to power the process the plant closes it's stomata to stop the suction, and starts using all the sugars that it built in the day. It now breathes in oxygen, not CO2, and exhales CO2. Respiration.

To a large degree things reverse.

So all the CO2 that is created in the dark still has to be exhaled but, in the light when food is coming in, it's imperative that the food comes thru at a speed that matches the amount of CO2 intake, and the amount of light that drives the process.

You need a conveyor thru the plant that carries supplies at the right speed. Thats daytime VPD.

At night the plant is using the sugar it made by converting it to energy to grow with, and expelling waste but not photosynthesizing.

It's basically digesting, growing, and farting.

So VPD is important in the aspect that it should be in the ball park of what the plant wants in the day, but it doesn't need to be dialed to vent off, it just opens it's stomata and lets waste out, it doesn't need to coordinate it with water, nutes, and light like it does during the day. It just needs some suction to vent off.

The speed of respiration is no where near as detrimental as the speed and balance of transpiration.

I never take night time readings. As long as I stay within 6-8 degrees F, and even 10 degrees will be OK as long as it doesn't get too cold, from lights on to lights off, it just works.

Plants will naturally raise their leaf temp at night to offset the drop in ambient temperature. As long as you are in the VPD ball park, this nightime leaf-temp raising response is enough to properly regulate night time VPD.

That's the dummied down, in a nutshell, readers digest condensed version. There is a lot going on but if you want deeper knowledge you will have to seek it out, I can't type that much lol.

But it's VPD. Just get it in the ball park.

To be honest, don't complicate it with night time VPD. Just dial in the "lights on" period, and don't let it get too cold in the dark. Plants know what to do in the dark.

So simple reasoning tells us that the more dialed the daytime VPD is, the more sugars are made, the more sugars, the more energy. Then at night the plant uses that energy to grow. The more sugars created in the day equals the more growth at night.

Growth doesn't nescessarily mean plant size alone. Every day everything grows, so more size, more terps, more branches, more everything. If any sugars are left over they get sent out as exudates.

If you can make more sugars in a day than you can use in a night, brix climbs. High brix means more exudates. More exudates means more food, so every lap of a healthy plant cycle literally makes the rich get richer.

Once a plant can eat enough CO2 to create enough sugars to power itself AND supply all the microbes it uses with enough exudates to completely support them, it is taking atmospheric CO2, converting it to sugar, and storing it inside microbes. They poop it out in a tied up form into the soil. It's called carbon sequestring, and when brix goes over 12 you should get a carbon credit as you are lowering your carbon footprint.

So it's all tied together. And VPD is the throttle. Just don't open the throttle beyond the point where the conveyor can supply adequate food and CO2. If you do, the plant will still photosynthesize, but right into a really fast moving deficiency.

 

[Jon]

Ok so plants do 1 thing in the light, and another in the dark. In the light the stomata are open and the atmosphere sucks water (loaded with nutes) from the earth, through the plant, and out the stomata, venting to atmosphere. While this is happening the process also lets CO2 in and the CO2 and the nutes in the water combine thru photosynthesis to form sugars. The plant takes the C from CO2, and expels the O2. Photosynthesis. Transpiration.

At night photosynthesis stops, so with no light to power the process the plant closes it's stomata to stop the suction, and starts using all the sugars that it built in the day. It now breathes in oxygen, not CO2, and exhales CO2. Respiration.

To a large degree things reverse.

So all the CO2 that is created in the dark still has to be exhaled but, in the light when food is coming in, it's imperative that the food comes thru at a speed that matches the amount of CO2 intake, and the amount of light that drives the process.

You need a conveyor thru the plant that carries supplies at the right speed. Thats daytime VPD.

At night the plant is using the sugar it made by converting it to energy to grow with, and expelling waste but not photosynthesizing.

It's basically digesting, growing, and farting.

So VPD is important in the aspect that it should be in the ball park of what the plant wants in the day, but it doesn't need to be dialed to vent off, it just opens it's stomata and lets waste out, it doesn't need to coordinate it with water, nutes, and light like it does during the day. It just needs some suction to vent off.

The speed of respiration is no where near as detrimental as the speed and balance of transpiration.

I never take night time readings. As long as I stay within 6-8 degrees F, and even 10 degrees will be OK as long as it doesn't get too cold, from lights on to lights off, it just works.

Plants will naturally raise their leaf temp at night to offset the drop in ambient temperature. As long as you are in the VPD ball park, this nightime leaf-temp raising response is enough to properly regulate night time VPD.

That's the dummied down, in a nutshell, readers digest condensed version. There is a lot going on but if you want deeper knowledge you will have to seek it out, I can't type that much lol.

But it's VPD. Just get it in the ball park.

To be honest, don't complicate it with night time VPD. Just dial in the "lights on" period, and don't let it get too cold in the dark. Plants know what to do in the dark.

So simple reasoning tells us that the more dialed the daytime VPD is, the more sugars are made, the more sugars, the more energy. Then at night the plant uses that energy to grow. The more sugars created in the day equals the more growth at night.

Growth doesn't nescessarily mean plant size alone. Every day everything grows, so more size, more terps, more branches, more everything. If any sugars are left over they get sent out as exudates.

If you can make more sugars in a day than you can use in a night, brix climbs. High brix means more exudates. More exudates means more food, so every lap of a healthy plant cycle literally makes the rich get richer.

Once a plant can eat enough CO2 to create enough sugars to power itself AND supply all the microbes it uses with enough exudates to completely support them, it is taking atmospheric CO2, converting it to sugar, and storing it inside microbes. They poop it out in a tied up form into the soil. It's called carbon sequestring, and when brix goes over 12 you should get a carbon credit as you are lowering your carbon footprint.

So it's all tied together. And VPD is the throttle. Just don't open the throttle beyond the point where the conveyor can supply adequate food and CO2. If you do, the plant will still photosynthesize, but right into a really fast moving deficiency.

DAMN. Thanks SO much @Gee64. That was no rookie primer and I’m sure it took a while. And I actually understand it all. So my daytime temp and rh is around 82-85 degrees and about 55-60% rh. That’s the best I can do here with what I have. Remember I have no extraction fan on the 2x4 and run ambient by day, but with the AC on to lower the rh. It’s quite inventive actually if I do say so myself. Anyway, the plant seems to love that. So nighttime I never read, but I open the door immediately at lights on and it reads the same always - 75 degrees and 62% rh. That’s my overnight. Again, best I can do. So that’s all fairly close. Am I okay here? Not that it matters cuz I’ve tried everything under the sun here and this is the best I got. Seems to agree with the plant. She’s drinking a lot - recently went from watering every third day to every second. About to start bulking up. (I’m about three weeks behind your schedule). So idk. But this also explains why I seem to see more new growth in the mornings. Thanks again for the involved answer.

 

[Jon]

Double Grape Day 89
Strawberry Gorilla Day 93
HARVEST

Both are coming down. I’ll be a bit busy for a while.

 

[Jon]

Double Grape Day 89
Strawberry Gorilla Day 93
HARVEST

Both are coming down. I’ll be a bit busy for a while.

Here’s what the SG looks like. The hairs could get a tad tighter but the trichs are getting up near 20% amber. Down she comes.

 

[Jon]

Here’s what the SG looks like. The hairs could get a tad tighter but the trichs are getting up near 20% amber. Down she comes.

And the DG

 

[Jon]

Nah. I’m gonna give them both one more day. I always do this dumb shit. I go back and forth on harvest. Better long than early. One more day. Besides, I’m simply not in the right mood for harvesting this morning, if that makes sense to anyone.

 

[Jon]

Cherry Pie

From all the way across the tent she looks like a mountain. A truly astonishing Autoflower.

 

[Jon]

i got u guys to guide me true <3 im sure i will do it what u think Jon 4 is good for the size i got?

Hey @rehabilitatora420 - I just understood your question. You’re asking is four plants good for your size tent, correct? Yours is 100cm x 100cm, yes? That’s basically a slightly larger 3x3, almost 40”x40”. In my opinion, four photos in your size space is too many. You can fill the tent with one plant if you want to, I can teach you that easy. Two for sure, even on your second grow. Especially if you do a journal, and tag all the folks you see here. You’ll get more help than you can digest, lol. I’d plan on two. In either five or seven gallon pots. Or if you want to do one big plant, maybe a seven or ten gallon pot. You’ll likely get better buds from fewer plants. With four you’d have to keep them all small and it would get quite crowded in there. Remember, photos are different than autos. Photos are going to be whatever size you make them. They veg at 18/6 or 20/4, and when you decide it’s time to go to flower, you change your light cycle to 12/12. So you let them get as big as you want in veg. Totally up to you. Most of us try to veg for 60 days or so, to make sure the plant is sexually mature when you’re ready to flip her. Understand?

 

[Azimuth]

But 4 autos would definitely work.

 

[NickHardy]

I read something yesterday that was interesting. Large scale commercial farmer been growing for years. Dropped in this as if it was common knowledge, its was as an aside. “Auto’s flower as soon as the roots hit resistance, so its pot sized related how big they grow”

 

[Jon]

But 4 autos would definitely work.

Depends on who grew ‘em…..

 

[greenmobster440]

I read something yesterday that was interesting. Large scale commercial farmer been growing for years. Dropped in this as if it was common knowledge, its was as an aside. “Auto’s flower as soon as the roots hit resistance, so its pot sized related how big they grow”

Good question. Ya wouldn't happen to have a link to that article would ya? Sounds interesting. This is my first run with autos and I read all I can find.

 

[Jon]

I read something yesterday that was interesting. Large scale commercial farmer been growing for years. Dropped in this as if it was common knowledge, its was as an aside. “Auto’s flower as soon as the roots hit resistance, so its pot sized related how big they grow”

Hmm. Interesting @NickHardy. First time I’ve heard that. Sounds a bit like bro science on first read. The Cherry Pie gave me 61 days of veg in her seven. The Double Grape, also in a seven, gave me 40-some. Etc. I almost always use sevens for autos, and the flower whenever they are pre programmed genetically to flower, regardless of the size of the pot. That would be my guess. But that’s interesting enough that I’m gonna explore a little.