InTheShed Grows Inside & Out: Jump In Any Time

[smokesbetter]

Thanks GDB and otter for sending me to his grow LOL Looking good shed

 

[Modest Grower]

I’m using Mother Earth soil. Local guy up here had some on a pallet so I figured I’d try it out.

My ppm is 181.
Honestly hadn’t checked it until now. Seems high straight out of the faucet.

Wow, I'm learning a lot just from these ppm comments. My water ppm is similar from what I remember. When I did MC in hydro I just focused on grams per gallon but kept an eye on ppm. Had a RO filter but never got it set up. For soil, I only focus on grams per gallon to be honest

 

[AdaminCO]

Wow, I'm learning a lot just from these ppm comments. My water ppm is similar from what I remember. When I did MC in hydro I just focused on grams per gallon but kept an eye on ppm. Had a RO filter but never got it set up. For soil, I only focus on grams per gallon to be honest

Yeah same here. I’ve never paid attention to it, but I’ve had the meter for many years. Figured it didn’t matter when in soil.

@farside05
Does 181 seem high pre mix. I think this is MC V3. Just mixed .5g in a quart and ppm was around 485

 

[farside05]

Yeah same here. I’ve never paid attention to it, but I’ve had the meter for many years. Figured it didn’t matter when in soil.

@farside05
Does 181 seem high pre mix. I think this is MC V3. Just mixed .5g in a quart and ppm was around 485

My tap water runs in the 150-180 range, so it's not abnormal. I think @InTheShed has similar water too. Here is where it matters... Most fertilizers have 2 different types of Nitrogen, Ammoniacal and Nitrate. Ammoniacal Nitrogen drives the substrate pH down, while Nitrate Nitrogen tends to drive it up. The balance between those two types of Nitrogen, along with the alkalinity of your water, helps maintain a more stabile pH in your growing medium. If you use a fertilizer that has a very high percentage of Nitrate Nitrogen, and you have a higher alkalinity water, the pH of you growing medium will rise over time. Conversely, if you use a fertilizer with a relatively high amount of Ammoniacal Nitrogen with a low alkalinity water source, the pH of your medium will drop over time. Mega Crop has primarily Nitrate Nitrogen as it's source, so it's best for low ppm water sources. Shed had some problems with the pH of his medium rising over his grows, which are longer than many of the members here. Initially he would use a fertilizer that had very high amounts of Ammoniacal Nitrogen whenever he started to encounter problems. About 2 weeks of using that high Ammoniacal product would bring his pH back in line. Now I think he just doctors his base Mega Crop with a touch of another fertilizer that has more Ammoniacal and feeds that throughout to combat drift. Myself, I have bought all the raw salts and have formulated my own fertilizer based on my N-P-K targets and my water source.

@InTheShed forgive me if any of my assumptions about what you have done or are doing are incorrect.

 

[Modest Grower]

My tap water runs in the 150-180 range, so it's not abnormal. I think @InTheShed has similar water too. Here is where it matters... Most fertilizers have 2 different types of Nitrogen, Ammoniacal and Nitrate. Ammoniacal Nitrogen drives the substrate pH down, while Nitrate Nitrogen tends to drive it up. The balance between those two types of Nitrogen, along with the alkalinity of your water, helps maintain a more stabile pH in your growing medium. If you use a fertilizer that has a very high percentage of Nitrate Nitrogen, and you have a higher alkalinity water, the pH of you growing medium will rise over time. Conversely, if you use a fertilizer with a relatively high amount of Ammoniacal Nitrogen with a low alkalinity water source, the pH of your medium will drop over time. Mega Crop has primarily Nitrate Nitrogen as it's source, so it's best for low ppm water sources. Shed had some problems with the pH of his medium rising over his grows, which are longer than many of the members here. Initially he would use a fertilizer that had very high amounts of Ammoniacal Nitrogen whenever he started to encounter problems. About 2 weeks of using that high Ammoniacal product would bring his pH back in line. Now I think he just doctors his base Mega Crop with a touch of another fertilizer that has more Ammoniacal and feeds that throughout to combat drift. Myself, I have bought all the raw salts and have formulated my own fertilizer based on my N-P-K targets and my water source.

@InTheShed forgive me if any of my assumptions about what you have done or are doing are incorrect.

Stoopid question but what if I ph my water/nutrient mix, is that just temporary and the nitrogen from MC still drives it up

 

[Moony]

Stoopid question but what if I ph my water/nutrient mix, is that just temporary and the nitrogen from MC still drives it up

I think it's the oxygenation which increases the PH slightly. I try to aim about 0.2-0.4 below where I want to end up. Especially because I use a air puck. I let my water sit for 24 hours from tap. Then make my mix and pH around 5.6-5.8 and end up at 6.0-6.2 in 24 hours when I give the mix the girls.

 

[farside05]

Stoopid question but what if I ph my water/nutrient mix, is that just temporary and the nitrogen from MC still drives it up

If you are growing in soil or a buffered soil-less mix (like Pro-Mix), adjusting the pH of your nutrient mix is a moot point. The types of Nitrogen are vastly more important. It's covered in this article, primarily on page 1 and 2. You'll also see a table on the top of page 2 with the recommended blend of Ammoniacal to Total Nitrogen based on water alkalinity.

 

[Modest Grower]

I think it's the oxygenation which increases the PH slightly. I try to aim about 0.2-0.4 below where I want to end up. Especially because I use a air puck. I let my water sit for 24 hours from tap. Then make my mix and pH around 5.6-5.8 and end up at 6.0-6.2 in 24 hours when I give the mix the girls.

Nice, I'm sure I'm showing my amateur level here but when I'm away I use this resevoir. I use air stones but it will sit for (longest time ever) 3 weeks so I'm sure the ph changed. So far the ladies seem ok with it. I'll have to study the changes more as I am loving the automated approach.

 

[Modest Grower]

You guys are blowing my mind

 

[Moony]

Nice, I'm sure I'm showing my amateur level here but when I'm away I use this resevoir. I use air stones but it will sit for (longest time ever) 3 weeks so I'm sure the ph changed. So far the ladies seem ok with it. I'll have to study the changes more as I am loving the automated approach.

I'm 99% sure there's not much you could do to stop the PH changing over such a long time. At the moment I'm running 9 big photos in 9 gallon pots. So I make a 45 litre mix and they need that between them every 2 days haha. I don't get chance to let anything sit more than 3 days max lol

 

[Modest Grower]

I'm 99% sure there's not much you could do to stop the PH changing over such a long time. At the moment I'm running 9 big photos in 9 gallon pots. So I make a 45 litre mix and they need that between them every 2 days haha. I don't get chance to let anything sit more than 3 days max lol

Very true but I am interested in a less hands on approach for future ventures, I think there are ph meters that can feed adjustments for hydro set ups. I think its like blue bird. I want to get into CBD growing on a larger scale but want to set it up automated to the extent possible. Anyway, you all are a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate you sharing it

 

[Moony]

Very true but I am interested in a less hands on approach for future ventures, I think there are ph meters that can feed adjustments for hydro set ups. I think its like blue bird. I want to get into CBD growing on a larger scale but want to set it up automated to the extent possible. Anyway, you all are a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate you sharing it

Good luck with that my friend!

I know the technology is there. But from what I can gather it's alot cheaper to pay a human to take a reading and adjust accordingly than have a computer automatically adjust the PH.

Environmental control is cheap compared to actually fully automated fertilization. Your talking next level science based shit hehe. You might be able to Jerry rig something up but I doubt it would be anything near reliable. But I wish you luck. If you manage it let me know I'll invest haha

 

[Moony]

@Modest Grower you know if you did organic slow release powders and made your own mix up. You could just use normal water. That would be stable for 3 weeks maybe? Especially if you keep the air flow and stop it going stagnant.

 

[Modest Grower]

Good luck with that my friend!

I know the technology is there. But from what I can gather it's alot cheaper to pay a human to take a reading and adjust accordingly than have a computer automatically adjust the PH.

Environmental control is cheap compared to actually fully automated fertilization. Your talking next level science based shit hehe. You might be able to Jerry rig something up but I doubt it would be anything near reliable. But I wish you luck. If you manage it let me know I'll invest haha

You sir are probably right. And rather than pay in money I will be paying with the my own work. Its not bad and I enjoy it which is why I am intrigued by the idea. At the end of the day reading a plant is better than a chart or schedule and I'm not going AI haha but here is my lazy man grow after two weeks gone. Obviously should have trimmed and what not but hey not shabby for the system being gone so long

 

[Modest Grower]

@Modest Grower you know if you did organic slow release powders and made your own mix up. You could just use normal water. That would be stable for 3 weeks maybe? Especially if you keep the air flow and stop it going stagnant.

That is another thing I would like to do. I have been learning and slowly trying to get into for sure. KNF is also super intriguing to me

 

[Moony]

You sir are probably right. And rather than pay in money I will be paying with the my own work. Its not bad and I enjoy it which is why I am intrigued by the idea. At the end of the day reading a plant is better than a chart or schedule and I'm not going AI haha but here is my lazy man grow after two weeks gone. Obviously should have trimmed and what not but hey not shabby for the system being gone so long

Looking good man

I'm jealous. I'm in the grow room checking my tents and the humidity about 20 times a day. Mainly through anxiety. At least twice a day I need to go in and swap the intake for each tent around off the windowsill. At least my girls are looking good ATM so its nice to go see them everytime hehe. I wish you luck. Personally I'd go the pre amended medium and plain water to get that 3 weeks. At which point you'll need to repot more than likely in veg and strip and prune in flower.

Unless your outside though I don't think you could go more than 3 weeks without effecting quality and yield. Also risking mold from lack of airflow depending on location etc.

 

[AdaminCO]

My tap water runs in the 150-180 range, so it's not abnormal. I think @InTheShed has similar water too. Here is where it matters... Most fertilizers have 2 different types of Nitrogen, Ammoniacal and Nitrate. Ammoniacal Nitrogen drives the substrate pH down, while Nitrate Nitrogen tends to drive it up. The balance between those two types of Nitrogen, along with the alkalinity of your water, helps maintain a more stabile pH in your growing medium. If you use a fertilizer that has a very high percentage of Nitrate Nitrogen, and you have a higher alkalinity water, the pH of you growing medium will rise over time. Conversely, if you use a fertilizer with a relatively high amount of Ammoniacal Nitrogen with a low alkalinity water source, the pH of your medium will drop over time. Mega Crop has primarily Nitrate Nitrogen as it's source, so it's best for low ppm water sources. Shed had some problems with the pH of his medium rising over his grows, which are longer than many of the members here. Initially he would use a fertilizer that had very high amounts of Ammoniacal Nitrogen whenever he started to encounter problems. About 2 weeks of using that high Ammoniacal product would bring his pH back in line. Now I think he just doctors his base Mega Crop with a touch of another fertilizer that has more Ammoniacal and feeds that throughout to combat drift. Myself, I have bought all the raw salts and have formulated my own fertilizer based on my N-P-K targets and my water source.

@InTheShed forgive me if any of my assumptions about what you have done or are doing are incorrect.

Thanks for the explanation brother… I’m curious if that’s why all is good, until about 6 weeks in, then I start seeing issues. I’ve gotten lazy the past 2 rounds and I’m starting to see the effects in my yields.

Do you think DG might be a better choice? I can run back up there and get a bottle. I read through your “no bloom nute” thread a couple years back and that’s what put DG in my head. I watched a lot of their videos explaining the science, and was sold, but again, MC was the thing, so I ran with that.

Before then it was built soil and compost teas, and before that I was a Fox Farm guy. I’m tired of wasting all the time on okayish harvest. I’m ready to focus again now that I have the time.

 

[Rexer]

Very true but I am interested in a less hands on approach for future ventures, I think there are ph meters that can feed adjustments for hydro set ups. I think its like blue bird. I want to get into CBD growing on a larger scale but want to set it up automated to the extent possible. Anyway, you all are a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate you sharing it

Hey MG! Plants look like a wicked jungle

The company your thinking of is bluelab. They make all kinds of top notch, pricey gear. I would love to get their PH controller, and eventually will.

Automated hydroponics is my favorite way to go

I stuck a wyze camera in my grow tent, and had a large super cheap Temp/RH display (picked it up at dollar store). It was nice to be able to check temp/rh any time with a few clicks on the phone. My whole grow is phone operated, and on the fairly cheap.

 

[farside05]

I'm jealous. I'm in the grow room checking my tents and the humidity about 20 times a day.

I've gotten so lazy anymore that I only peek in on them about every 3 days.

Do you think DG might be a better choice? I can run back up there and get a bottle. I read through your “no bloom nute” thread a couple years back and that’s what put DG in my head. I watched a lot of their videos explaining the science, and was sold, but again, MC was the thing, so I ran with that.

Since Shed had a large amount of MC left, I think he's just adding a small amount of Ammonium Sulfate to his to bring up the Ammoniacal to Total Nitrogen ratio. If you have a bunch of MC left, that may be an option before switching to Dyna. I think when I worked out some numbers before, it was .6g Ammonium Sulfate and 5g Mega Crop. @InTheShed can let you know more of what he's actually doing to combat drift.

 

[InTheShed]

I have to say that I love the fact that I can be offline for a few days and come back to a terrific conversation about growing from all the terrific people who stop by.

to you all for keeping this place alive!

No news here except that it's been miserable and raining and I can't even get the plants outside to water or spray them for bugs or PM. Two days straight indoors so far...oof!

Oh, and don't forget to vote in the contests!

Enjoy your rainy weather vacation, Shed! Dougs Varin is looking nice 'n happy

Thanks Carcass! DV still looking good with more tucking and a some minor supercrops. Definitely needs to be neemed though.

And I hope it's raining up north where we get all our water from, because the stuff that comes down here just runs into the ocean!

Wow such amazing plants.

Thanks marcus!

Happy vacation! Enjoy the days getting longer! WoooooHoooooo!

I know right? Getting longer and yet the plants are living in cramped chilly spaces. Next year, nothing flowers into December, and I'm only growing what fits in the tent next winter. Thanks Otter!

you and me both stoneotter , shed that DV is really getting on with the program .. What is the link to Vg and your grows , i seem to have lost it ?!!

It doesn't look like the leaves are getting smaller, which is weird for a "sativa." And GDB has hooked you up with the link I see!

It's here.

And here. Thanks!

LOL! Anyone wanting to see his great indoor LOS grow, click on Otter's link.

I’m using Mother Earth soil. Local guy up here had some on a pallet so I figured I’d try it out.
My ppm is 181.
Honestly hadn’t checked it until now. Seems high straight out of the faucet.

Are we talking about ppm or pH? PPM doesn't matter in soil unless it's crazy high well water.

Thanks GDB and otter for sending me to his grow LOL Looking good shed

Wow, I'm learning a lot just from these ppm comments. My water ppm is similar from what I remember. When I did MC in hydro I just focused on grams per gallon but kept an eye on ppm. Had a RO filter but never got it set up. For soil, I only focus on grams per gallon to be honest

PPM matters more in hydro because the roots are soaking in it, but if it's not high you can probably get away without a RO filter. Just remember to factor the tap water's ppm in your EC measurements.

Yeah same here. I’ve never paid attention to it, but I’ve had the meter for many years. Figured it didn’t matter when in soil.

This! ↑

My tap water runs in the 150-180 range, so it's not abnormal. I think @InTheShed has similar water too. Here is where it matters... Most fertilizers have 2 different types of Nitrogen, Ammoniacal and Nitrate. Ammoniacal Nitrogen drives the substrate pH down, while Nitrate Nitrogen tends to drive it up. The balance between those two types of Nitrogen, along with the alkalinity of your water, helps maintain a more stabile pH in your growing medium. If you use a fertilizer that has a very high percentage of Nitrate Nitrogen, and you have a higher alkalinity water, the pH of you growing medium will rise over time. Conversely, if you use a fertilizer with a relatively high amount of Ammoniacal Nitrogen with a low alkalinity water source, the pH of your medium will drop over time. Mega Crop has primarily Nitrate Nitrogen as it's source, so it's best for low ppm water sources. Shed had some problems with the pH of his medium rising over his grows, which are longer than many of the members here. Initially he would use a fertilizer that had very high amounts of Ammoniacal Nitrogen whenever he started to encounter problems. About 2 weeks of using that high Ammoniacal product would bring his pH back in line. Now I think he just doctors his base Mega Crop with a touch of another fertilizer that has more Ammoniacal and feeds that throughout to combat drift. Myself, I have bought all the raw salts and have formulated my own fertilizer based on my N-P-K targets and my water source.

@InTheShed forgive me if any of my assumptions about what you have done or are doing are incorrect.

Thanks farside! I'm with you 100% on the facts, but in terms of my grow, the ProMix HP is much more part of the pH change than it would be in soil. For the detailed info, I'll link y'all back to the post here, but the tl;dr is that peat and lime don't have the buffering capacity of soil and lime. Here's an excerpt from the manufacturer of ProMix:
"For...soil, the buffer...is much greater than formulated growing media [i.e. ProMix], therefore swings in pH...are less."

So my need to bump the ammoniacal N is because of the ProMix (and the length of my grows) rather than my water. In soil, the nitrate N probably wouldn't raise the pH even in grows as long as mine.

Stoopid question but what if I ph my water/nutrient mix, is that just temporary and the nitrogen from MC still drives it up

MC will by itself raise the pH of your soil because of its nitrate content, but the soil should buffer that for you. Remember that the pH of your nutrients only matters in hydro (coco included), but not in soil or soilless (ProMix/Sunshine Mix) grows.

I think it's the oxygenation which increases the PH slightly. I try to aim about 0.2-0.4 below where I want to end up. Especially because I use a air puck. I let my water sit for 24 hours from tap. Then make my mix and pH around 5.6-5.8 and end up at 6.0-6.2 in 24 hours when I give the mix the girls.

Yes! Since you're in coco (and pH matters), it's important that the water pH be checked/adjusted just before watering rather than after mixing, especially if you have it aerating in a res. Even standing water will show a pH rise as the water interacts with the air. You've obviously figured out the compensation rate for your grow!

If you are growing in soil or a buffered soil-less mix (like Pro-Mix), adjusting the pH of your nutrient mix is a moot point. The types of Nitrogen are vastly more important. It's covered in this article, primarily on page 1 and 2. You'll also see a table on the top of page 2 with the recommended blend of Ammoniacal to Total Nitrogen based on water alkalinity.

for all the science farside!

Nice, I'm sure I'm showing my amateur level here but when I'm away I use this resevoir. I use air stones but it will sit for (longest time ever) 3 weeks so I'm sure the ph changed. So far the ladies seem ok with it. I'll have to study the changes more as I am loving the automated approach.

As farside and I have mentioned, don't sweat the pH of your nutes in your soil grows. And how well your plants do even with you going walkabout prove that point.

You guys are blowing my mind

LOL!

I'm 99% sure there's not much you could do to stop the PH changing over such a long time. At the moment I'm running 9 big photos in 9 gallon pots. So I make a 45 litre mix and they need that between them every 2 days haha. I don't get chance to let anything sit more than 3 days max lol

Lotsa plants, lotsa water.

I know the technology is there. But from what I can gather it's alot cheaper to pay a human to take a reading and adjust accordingly than have a computer automatically adjust the PH.
Environmental control is cheap compared to actually fully automated fertilization. Your talking next level science based shit hehe. You might be able to Jerry rig something up but I doubt it would be anything near reliable. But I wish you luck. If you manage it let me know I'll invest haha

Anyone interested in setting up an auto-watering system (though not with automatic pH adjustment ) @Derbybud has a tutorial on it here:

Derbybud's automatic watering system: A tutorial

Greetings all! Here is a tutorial on how @Derbybud made his auto watering system. This is the basic information that folks are often asking him for...no reason he needs to keep repeating it. He's a busy guy :). These are his words...

www.420magazine.com

@Modest Grower you know if you did organic slow release powders and made your own mix up. You could just use normal water. That would be stable for 3 weeks maybe? Especially if you keep the air flow and stop it going stagnant.

One of the main selling points of our sponsor GeoFlora is that it's water only, and some folks run it successfully with only additional top dresses every 2 weeks. Though some folks find it needs more frequent application or a some help from liquid nutes. Still easier than building your own soil, that's for sure.

hey not shabby for the system being gone so long

Not shabby at all MG!

I'm in the grow room checking my tents and the humidity about 20 times a day. Mainly through anxiety.

Damn! What's your daily step-count?

I’m curious if that’s why all is good, until about 6 weeks in, then I start seeing issues. I’ve gotten lazy the past 2 rounds and I’m starting to see the effects in my yields.

Well-made soil shouldn't have pH swing in 6 weeks, so I'm thinking what you were seeing might be issues with the MC, which were the reasons we went from loving it to just finding ways to make it work if we bought too much.

If you have enough left to make it worth using, you can buy a couple of additional nutes and blend them into a sprout-to-harvest mix using something similar to farside's or an online nutrient calculator. @FelipeBlu has one as well. Or one of us can do the calculations for you if you're interested.

Before then it was built soil and compost teas, and before that I was a Fox Farm guy. I’m tired of wasting all the time on okayish harvest. I’m ready to focus again now that I have the time.

If you have the time I'd look into what folks like farside, Felipe, me, and MrSauga are doing combining plant science and nutrient blending. Ratios are the new black!

I've gotten so lazy anymore that I only peek in on them about every 3 days.

Har! I hear that low phosphorus makes all that possible.